29 replies to this topic

[curious_sle]

Or maybe it would synergize?
Damn, where is the mitochondria targeted SOD mimetic, the mitochondria targeted CAT and all the other stuff when one needs it? :-)

-
from http://www.quantium......ends Lifespan :

Dinh Lang Extends Lifespan

Alcoholic extracts from the Vietnamese herb dinh lang has been proven to be effective in extending rodent maximum lifespan.

Here's some data.

Dinh lang extract and deprenyl have some additive effects on prolonging the lifespan of OFA-1 mice. (Acta Physiologica Hungarica 79(2): 119-124 1992)

Group Maximum Lifespan

control 133 weeks

dinh lang 170

deprenyl 162

both 180

This also works in Wistar rats as well. (Acta Physiologica Hungarica 75: 301-302 1990)

Group Average Maximum

Lifespan Lifespan

control 147 164 weeks

dinh lang 180 194

dinh lang & 206 239

deprenyl

The life extending effect of dinh lang extract appears to be quite real as it has been demonstrated in two strains of rodents. Moreover dinh lang appears to be more effective than deprenyl.

n addition the dosage used was probably suboptimal. Only 10 mg/kg extract was used in the life extension experiments, while maximal effects of passive avoidance performance in young OFA mice was found at 20 mg/kg. (Acta Physiologica Hungarica 75(1): 69-76 1990) In Wistar rats aged 22-24 months 20.8% resumed full scale sexual activity at a dosage of 20 mg/kg, 11.5% at 10 mg/kg, 7.7% at 5 mg/kg and 0% for controls. (Acta Physiologica Hungarica 75(1): 61-67 1990)

It would be interesting to see more research on dinh lang, especially at the 20 mg/kg dosage.

-
From ryan1113d@yahoo.com in sci.life-extension :

1: Acta Physiol Hung. 1992;79(2):119-24. Related Articles, Links

Extension of lifespan in mice treated with Dinh lang (Policias
fruticosum L.) and (-)deprenyl.

Yen TT, Knoll J.

Department of Pharmacology, Semmelweis University Medical School,
Budapest, Hungary.

The effect of Dinh lang root extract (DLRE) and (-)deprenyl on memory
function and lifespan was examined in OFA-1 male mice. Treatments of
either DLRE, (-)deprenyl or their combination were carried out 3 times
a week starting at 12 months of age and following to the end of life.
DLRE and (-)deprenyl significantly increased the memory function as
well as surviving time of aged mice. The drug-treated animals showed a
lower rate of loss of body weight than saline treated ones. It
suggested that DLRE and (-)deprenyl did not prolong lifespan of mice
by suppressing food intake. The combined treatment of DLRE and
(-)deprenyl proved to be the most effective.

PMID: 1304677 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2: Acta Physiol Hung. 1990;75(1):69-76. Related Articles, Links


Improvement of learning ability in mice and rats with the root extract
of dinh lang (Policias fruticosum L.).

Tran Ty Yen.

Department of Pharmacology, Semmelweis University Medical School,
Budapest, Hungary.

The effect of Dinh lang root extract (DLRE) on the learning ability of
mice and rats was studied. The learning performance in groups of rats
belonging to different age-cohorts (4-6 months, 16-18 months and 22-24
months) was studied in the shuttle-box and the age-related decline in
the acquisition of a conditioned avoidance response (CAR) was
established. Using the passive avoidance test also in mice, an age-
related decay in performance, was detected. DLRE treatment 10 mg/kg
daily for 3-4 weeks restored the lost ability of 22-24 months old rats
to develop CAR, the same treatment significantly improved the
performance of young mice and improved retention in both 5-months old
and 19-20 months old groups of mice.

PMID: 2339609 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3: Acta Physiol Hung. 1990;75(1):61-7. Related Articles, Links


Stimulation of sexual performance in male rats with the root extract
of dinh lang (Policias fruticosum L.).

Tran Ty Yen.

Department of Pharmacology, Semmelweis University Medical School,
Budapest, Hungary.

Ginseng (Panax ginseng C.A. Meyer) is probably the best known
medicinal plant, the extract of which is used in the Far East as a
traditional remedy. Dinh lang (Polycias fruticosum L.) root extract
(DLRE) was found to have a pharmacological spectrum similar to
Ginseng. Experimental and clinical studies have shown a wide range of
pronounced stimulatory effects of DLRE which showed low toxicity. It
increases mental and physical performance. This study is devoted to
demonstrate the effect of DLRE on sexual performance of male rats.
Different age-cohorts of Wistar male rats [6-8 months old (n = 204),
16-18-months old (n = 240) and 22-24 month old (n = 122)], were used
for these experiments. The rats of each age cohort were divided into 4
groups. One group received saline, others were treated with various
doses of DLRE daily. Treatment started 10 days before the screening
test and continued during the test period. DLRE reduced the percentage
of non-copulators in the aged rats compared to the younger ones. In
the aged rats DLRE transformed high percentage of sluggish rats to
sexually fully active animals. In sexually fully active 6-8 months old
rats the percentage of rats displaying ejaculation with the second
female was found to be significantly higher in DLRE-treated males.
Also the recovery of the sexually exhausted male rats proved to be
faster in DLRE-treated groups.

PMID: 2339608 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4: Acta Physiol Hung. 1990;75 Suppl:301-2. Related Articles, Links


The effect of dinh lang and (-)deprenyl on the survival rate of male
rats.

Yen TT, Dallo J, Knoll J.

Department of Pharmacology, Semmelweis University of Medicine,
Budapest, Hungary.

PMID: 2115236 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[tintinet]

Perhaps. Still, all these studies originate from a single lab and are published, at least as you've cited them, in a rather obscure journal. It would be helpful to see the substance more widely studied.

[ryan1113]

I guess it doesn't really matter if we can't find a supplement company willing to seek out a source and introduce the extract to the U.S. market. It should be a #1 priority, IMHO. I know the studies were all done by the same team, but I don't doubt the results. And it worked it in wild-type rats AND mice, not just one species, plus it synergized with Deprenyl. Sounds kinda like the supplement every life extensionist dreams of.

I know the extract has been manufactured for use in Asian countries such as China and particularly Vietnam where it supposedly has a long history as a medicinal herb. But there are also different subspecies of the plant; one would have to be careful that it is actually an extract of "polyscias fruticosa L." aka dinh lang, policias fruticosum L.. In effect, the "L." is important. And it should be manufactured in the same way the extract in the studies was made. If anyone has access to the full texts of the studies this information is probably included, I'd imagine.

It's possible that the mechanism through which it extends maximum lifespan is by upregulating different enzymes that metabolize peroxide; I found a reference to this. Alos, mice engineered to overproduce catalase within mitochondria had extended maximum lifespans. And re-analysis of the raw data from this study by another group suggested that it might actually help to preserve youth rather than slow aging, meaning it might actually put off the exponential (Gompertz curve) acceleration of the aging process off for some time. The inolvement of peroxides in MIFRA and the general free radical theory of aging was, until very recently, not given much research effort compared to active ROS. Now it turns out that peroxides might be more important than active ROS.

We have the agents thiodipropionic acid and dilauryl thiodipropionate that we can buy from LEF to break down peroxides. However, although these are truly powerful destroyers of peroxide that reduce H2O2 to non-toxic substances, there's very little in vivo proof of their efficacy and bioavailability to different parts of the cell and the brain. Chronic toxicity studies on these were carried out decades ago in rats, but as usual the rats weren't allowed to live out their lifespans and were killed early. So we don't know how they might affect aging. They are lipid soluble; hopefully they have some significant bioavailability. As I remember, no toxic effects were revealed except at very high dosages; it's been a while since I looked at the data, though.

Also, the supplement Glisodin especially, and also the Protandim product (for which Bacopa is probably the major contributor )upregulates catalase and GPX, and some other herbal products may do this as well. But these also upregulate SOD isoforms. But a mitochondrial-available SOD mimetic was just shown to extend maximum lifepsan as well, as someone just posted to sci.life-extension today. There are different isoforms of SOD and such. I don't know specifically how much Glisodin or Bacopa might lower oxidative stress within mitochondria themselves, but if they do, they might very well extend maximum lifespan as per the recent studies with the mimetics.

Edited by ryan1113, 19 February 2007 - 02:52 AM.

[maxwatt]

Limited publications, a handful in pub med, all from the same institution and researchers in Hungary. I wouldn't get excited until it's confirmed elsewhere.

[ryan1113]

Well, for most supplements we don't have lifespan experiments at all, so..........

[mitkat]

one would have to be careful that it is actually an extract of "polyscias fruticosa L." aka dinh lang, policias fruticosum L..  In effect, the "L." is important. 

The "L." simply means it was identified by Carolus Linnaeus, one of the most famous contributers to modern botany, specifically taxonomy. Has nothing to do with the variety or subspecies of the plant material except noting who identified it and classified it. [glasses]

I've heard of this plant once before, nice to see some studies on it.

[medievil]

12 months of age, what age is this for humans?
also is there a place i con order this? i will try it for its cognitive effects

[xanadu]

And don't forget fo ti which has a much better researched background. I think it's good that all these herbs and substances are coming out and being discovered by the world. The secrets of aging well are being discovered. No doubt others will come forward. I haven't found a source for dinh lang either but if it's good stuff then we will hear more about it

[ryan1113]

one would have to be careful that it is actually an extract of "polyscias fruticosa L." aka dinh lang, policias fruticosum L..  In effect, the "L." is important. 

The "L." simply means it was identified by Carolus Linnaeus, one of the most famous contributers to modern botany, specifically taxonomy. Has nothing to do with the variety or subspecies of the plant material except noting who identified it and classified it. [glasses]

I guess I thought maybe the "L." was relevant in this particular case because it denotes the particular polyscias fruticosa identified by him. I keep seeing dinh lang as "polyscias fruticosa L." and others mentioned by the same sources as polyscias fruticosa elegans, polyscias fruticosa californica, etc. Unlike the other polyscias fruticosa plants, dinh lang doesn't appear to have an additional identifier after "fruticosa", but the "L." is usually attached when it's referred to, but not in the case of polyscias fruticosa elegans and the others.

[mitkat]

It's weird that the papers in question keep referencing the Linnaeus, it's so incredibly irrelevant to the experiments.

The elegans or californica are varieties, or in the case of it being a medicinal plant possibly subspecies, but it would usually say "ssp. elegans", as that's the only traditional trinomal botanical classification, to my knowledge. [glasses]

Crazy research scientists.

[ryan1113]

Ok, I see now. I think at least some of the others including elegans are cultivars. It's hard to find much information on the web that helps to clarify. Some sources enclose elegans, for example, in single quotes. That's apparently what it means when the term is enclosed by single quotations; e.g. polyscias fruticosa 'Elegans'.

When sources use Polyscias fruticosa L. for Dinh Lang, and Polyscias fruticosa 'Elegans' for another, the "L." probably helps signify the original wild classified plant to avoid ambiguity or confusion. If Dinh Lang is the only original, wild non-cultivar, that might explain the lack of an additional identifier that the rest seem to have.

[maxwatt]

Is there anything on the chemical structure of any substances that have been isolated from the plant? It would be ironic if it was a source of resveratrol..... probably not. All I find references to is oligosacharides and polyacetylenes.

This paper suggests it is better than ginseng, and an alternative to Viagra:

Acta Physiol Hung. 1990;75(1):61-7. Links
Stimulation of sexual performance in male rats with the root extract of dinh lang (Policias fruticosum L.).Tran Ty Yen.
Department of Pharmacology, Semmelweis University Medical School, Budapest, Hungary.

Ginseng (Panax ginseng C.A. Meyer) is probably the best known medicinal plant, the extract of which is used in the Far East as a traditional remedy. Dinh lang (Polycias fruticosum L.) root extract (DLRE) was found to have a pharmacological spectrum similar to Ginseng. Experimental and clinical studies have shown a wide range of pronounced stimulatory effects of DLRE which showed low toxicity. It increases mental and physical performance. This study is devoted to demonstrate the effect of DLRE on sexual performance of male rats. Different age-cohorts of Wistar male rats [6-8 months old (n = 204), 16-18-months old (n = 240) and 22-24 month old (n = 122)], were used for these experiments. The rats of each age cohort were divided into 4 groups. One group received saline, others were treated with various doses of DLRE daily. Treatment started 10 days before the screening test and continued during the test period. DLRE reduced the percentage of non-copulators in the aged rats compared to the younger ones. In the aged rats DLRE transformed high percentage of sluggish rats to sexually fully active animals. In sexually fully active 6-8 months old rats the percentage of rats displaying ejaculation with the second female was found to be significantly higher in DLRE-treated males. Also the recovery of the sexually exhausted male rats proved to be faster in DLRE-treated groups.

PMID: 2339608

Now if someone wanted to marked a Dinh Lang herbal extract, they would be sure to make money if they could call it "Herbal Viagra". Anti-aging is a more limited market.

(edited for spelling corrections)

Edited by maxwatt, 20 February 2007 - 02:27 PM.

[tom a]

What I find baffling about these studies is that there was no followup, apparently, by either this group or any other.

I mean, you have a couple of substances that, taken together, seems to extend the life of rats by 35% or more, and no one deems it worthy of further study?

There's something wrong with this picture, but I don't know what.

[maxwatt]

What I find baffling about these studies is that there was no followup, apparently, by either this group or any other.

I mean, you have a couple of substances that, taken together, seems to extend the life of rats by 35% or more, and no one deems it worthy of further study?

There's something wrong with this picture, but I don't know what.

Negative results don't get published (unless it upsets an accepted paradigm) and the study seems to come from a counry that , uh, lacked credibility at the time?

[tom a]

Negative results don't get published (unless it upsets an accepted paradigm)

Well, I would have thought that even a study by another group that ended in negative results would have been published, simply to close the case on the substances; I mean, if you've already got the results in hand, why not publish them?

I'm sure the failure of any followup does stem from the low credibility of the research institution, but it still surprises me that nothing more has been said publicly about these substances.

[maxwatt]

Traditional medical use in SE Asia seems to be for "kidney ache".

If I get some of the root extract, I'll let you know if it "improves the recovery of the sexually exhausted male."

[curious_sle]

*g

well, i'd like to know where to get some. In standartized capsules if possible :-)

[tomnook]

It took several hours of searching but I finally found this supplement for "supporting sexual health" which contains 100mg of Dinh Lang (policias fruticosum) - here is the link

http://www.gvi.com/S...sp?idproduct=39

label information

http://www.gvi.com/S.../genixlabel.gif

and the personal opinion of a Rhode Islander who reckons this product has rejuvenated him from a 62 year old to a 40 something!

http://www.journalof...er_v144_p26.asp

Has anyone discovered another source yet - these don't ship to Europe unfortunately....... actually, there seems to be a fair amount of negative publicity on the web about this supplier.


Dave

[browser]

It took several hours of searching but I finally found this supplement for "supporting sexual health" which contains 100mg of Dinh Lang (policias fruticosum) - here is the link

http://www.gvi.com/S...sp?idproduct=39

label information

http://www.gvi.com/S.../genixlabel.gif

and the personal opinion of a Rhode Islander who reckons this product has rejuvenated him from a 62 year old to a 40 something!

http://www.journalof...er_v144_p26.asp

Has anyone discovered another source yet - these don't ship to Europe unfortunately....... actually, there seems to be a fair amount of negative publicity on the web about this supplier.


Dave

The GeniX mentioned in the personal opinion isn't recognized by Google.

[tomnook]

Sorry, you've lost me there, Google returns with the first URL I listed if you simply search for GeniX ?
3rd page of the hits (from Google.co.uk anyway)

Dave

[edward]

I am going to China next week and wondering if I could go into some herbal shops and ask for this herb does anyone know offhand if there is a different Chinese name or if Dinh Lang is recognized by traditional Chinese Medicine? My experience with Chinese herbal shops is that if you don't know the traditional Chinese name for the remedy they will look at you like you are an idiot.
Latin plant names and classifications meet with a blank stare. You have to communicate in their language, for instance Gui Pi Wan is a formula for cardiovascular health and energy and contains Astragalus which they call Huang Qi. Ask for Huang Qi and they understand, ask for Astragalus and you are greeted with that you are a western idiot look.




Edit: Ok answered my own question: Here are various names for this herb:

Nothopanax fruticosum (L.) Miq.

SYNONYM(S) : Nothopanax fruticosa (L.) Miq., Panax fruticosa L., Polyscias fruticosa (L.) Harms

CHINESE : 梁王茶 Liang wang cha (Taiwan).

ENGLISH : Black aralia, Ming aralia.

Edited by edward, 02 December 2007 - 06:16 PM.

[maxwatt]

I am going to China next week and wondering if I could go into some herbal shops and ask for this herb does anyone know offhand if there is a different Chinese name or if Dinh Lang is recognized by traditional Chinese Medicine? My experience with Chinese herbal shops is that if you don't know the traditional Chinese name for the remedy they will look at you like you are an idiot.
Latin plant names and classifications meet with a blank stare. You have to communicate in their language, for instance Gui Pi Wan is a formula for cardiovascular health and energy and contains Astragalus which they call Huang Qi. Ask for Huang Qi and they understand, ask for Astragalus and you are greeted with that you are a western idiot look.




Edit: Ok answered my own question: Here are various names for this herb:

Nothopanax fruticosum (L.) Miq.

SYNONYM(S) : Nothopanax fruticosa (L.) Miq., Panax fruticosa L., Polyscias fruticosa (L.) Harms

CHINESE : 梁王茶 Liang wang cha (Taiwan).

ENGLISH : Black aralia, Ming aralia.

Hate to tell you this, but 梁王茶 Liang wang cha is a brand name for a kind of tea. It contains several hearbs, not just tea, but it is not a single herb.

Edited by maxwatt, 03 December 2007 - 01:28 AM.

[browser]

It took several hours of searching but I finally found this supplement for "supporting sexual health" which contains 100mg of Dinh Lang (policias fruticosum) - here is the link

http://www.gvi.com/S...sp?idproduct=39

label information

http://www.gvi.com/S.../genixlabel.gif

and the personal opinion of a Rhode Islander who reckons this product has rejuvenated him from a 62 year old to a 40 something!

http://www.journalof...er_v144_p26.asp

Has anyone discovered another source yet - these don't ship to Europe unfortunately....... actually, there seems to be a fair amount of negative publicity on the web about this supplier.


Dave

The GeniX mentioned in the personal opinion isn't recognized by Google.

I don't expect to find a supplement on the third page. The Youth Tissue Extract I take fills the first page. Didn't bother going past that. Yes, I know the first result is an advert but for this miracle to be on the 3rd page of Google says a lot of nothing about this product.

[edward]

Hate to tell you this, but 梁王茶 Liang wang cha is a brand name for a kind of tea. It contains several hearbs, not just tea, but it is not a single herb.
[/quote]


Any suggestions MaxWatt?

Edited by edward, 03 December 2007 - 02:31 AM.

[tomnook]

Here's some more information:

The plant family is Araliaceae, name is Polyscias fruticosa, also known
as:

Ming Aralia, Parsley Ming, and Polyscias frutocosum.

I realise you already know the Polyscias part.

Good luck!


Dave

[maxwatt]

You can buy the plant from a nursery and grow it at home:

Dave's Garden

http://davesgarden.c...es/pf/go/54631/

[tomnook]

FYI here is a quote from a posting to sci.life-extension made by Doug Strecky in 1996 following the Dinh Lang and Deprenyl research ::

>>>>>>>>
Beware! The studies you mention from Acta Physiologica Hungarica all come from
Knoll's lab in Budapest - the same lab that originally hyped deprenyl as a
supposedly miraculous "life extender." Dinh lang apparently has stimulating
actions similar to those found in gingseng. Not coincidently, the four studies
that came out of Knoll's lab in the early 1990s made *e 1f39 xactly* the same
spectacular claims about the root that Knoll earlier made about deprenyl: that it
inhanced rat sexual performance, increased survival rates, improved physical
performance, improved learning, etc. etc. All these rejuvenating claims have been
made throughout history for just about every stimulating drug you can think of
*precisely* because of their short-term stimulating effects. Long-range effects,
as we've learned from deprenyl, as well as unwanted effects on the autonomic
system (including the promotion of hypertension), are a very different story.

I have abstracts from the Knoll studies on Dinh lang in Acta Physiologica
Hungarica - hardly a mainstream journal - if anyone wants to see them. Please
e-mail me for them, since I don't personally think that they are worth posting.
>>>>>>
(Knoll = Dr. Joseph Knoll)

Dave

[Egester]

Hello,
as a practicioner of traditional chinese medicine and importer of chinese herbs from China to Europe I asked my sources min China to find a supplier for

南洋参 nan yang shen

Panax fruticosus Linnaeus, Sp. Pl., ed. 2, 2: 1513. 1763 ["fruticosum"]; Nothopanax fruticosus (Linnaeus) Miquel.

Shrubs or treelets, to 3(-5) m tall, andromonoecious. Leaves 3-5-pinnate; petiole (2-)5-15 cm, clasping at base, inconspicuously alate with membranous wings; petiolules 1-5 cm; primary leaf divisions (7-)11-15, each further divided once or twice, sometimes variegated, usually lanceolate, (1-)2-18 × 0.2-5 cm, papery, base narrowly cuneate to attenuate, margin laciniate to spinulose-serrate, teeth 5-10 mm, apex long acuminate. Inflorescence terminal, erect, a panicle of umbels; primary axis 8-30(-60) cm; secondary axes 5-15, scattered or subverticillate, 7-25(-30) cm; tertiary axes 5-15 per secondary axis, mostly grouped in 2-4 verticils, with a terminal umbellule of bisexual flowers and 2-6 lateral umbellules of staminate flowers; pedicels 1.5-5 mm (shorter in staminate flowers). Ovary 2- or 3(or 4)-carpellate; styles free nearly to base, 0.8-1.2 mm at anthesis, recurving, expanding in fruit to 1.5 mm. Fruit laterally compressed or trigonous (rarely quadrangular), orbicular to ovate-orbicular, 4-5 × 4.5-6 mm, base rounded (sometimes shallowly subcordate). Fl. Aug-Sep.

Widely cultivated in Hainan (Wanning) [native to SW Pacific islands].

This species is used as an ornamental and for medicinal purposes.


http://www.efloras.o...on_id=200015272


I will inform you about the answers.

[renwosing]

So what's the update?

[neogenic]

So what's the update?

Was there ever any updates on this? I realize there's reason for skepticism, but I am curious to know what those that did try it experienced.