32 replies to this topic

[EmbraceUnity]

LEF sells curcumin with Bioperine. It says that it increases bioavailability, but I can't find much other information on it... other than not to take it in combination with perscription medication.

Would this be ok to take with a complex stack?

[Shepard]

Could be, but not recommended unless you do a good bit of research beforehand.

[ageless]

Yeah I've been taking Vitacost's Curcumin with bioperine and I take it with a bunch of other supplements .... I believe it could benefit nutrient absorption for many supplements, but def. avoid with drugs and supplements that could cause side effects in higher doses.
I have wondered if it may improve resveratrol absorption as it increases other fat soluble substances abs. such as Coq10 and beta-carotene.
Haven't done the research to look into it yet...

[jamfropsi]

Check this out...

http://forum.bodybui...582&postcount=4

[spacetime]

Funny that the guy works for a company that readily incorporates it in several of their products.

[zoolander]

I posted some information about bioperine here

[eternaltraveler]

with all the substances many people here take I would think bioperine might well be one of the most dangerous (it turns off many different cytocrome p450 isoforms, which are the primary hydroxylators of drugs making it easy to OD on what might normally be a very inoculous dose).

[eternaltraveler]

heh, i see you covered that in your link zoo

[zoolander]

Bioperine is not the only culprit


Resveratrol has also been shown to mess with first pass metabolism in the liver.

I posted this not to long ago

Basic Clin Pharmacol Toxicol. 2007 Jan;100(1):23-30.

    The Induction of CYP1A2, CYP2D6 and CYP3A4 by Six Trade Herbal Products in Cultured Primary Human Hepatocytes.
        * Hellum BH,
        * Hu Z,
        * Nilsen OG.

    Department of Cancer Research and Molecular Medicine, Faculty of Medicine, Norwegian University of Science and Technology, Trondheim, Norway.

    The aim of this study was to evaluate the in vitro inductive potential of six commonly used trade herbal products on CYP1A2, CYP2D6 and CYP3A4 metabolic activities. Herbal components were extracted from the trade products in a way that ensured a composition equal to that present in the original product. Primary human hepatocytes and specific CYP substrates were used. Classic inducers were used as positive controls and herbal extracts were added in in vivo-relevant concentrations. Metabolites were determined by high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). St. John's wort and common valerian were the strongest inducing herbs. In addition to induction of CYP3A4 by St. John's wort, common valerian and Ginkgo biloba increased the activity of CYP3A4 and 2D6 and CYP1A2 and 2D6, respectively. A general inhibitory potential was observed for horse chestnut, Echinacea purpurea and common sage. St. John's wort inhibited CYP3A4 metabolism at the highest applied concentration. Horse chestnut might be a herb with high inhibition potentials in vivo and should be explored further at lower concentrations. We show for the first time that G. biloba may exert opposite and biphasic effects on CYP1A2 and CYP2D6 metabolism. Induction of CYP1A2 and inhibition of CYP2D6 were found at low concentrations; the opposite was observed at high concentrations. CYP2D6 activity, regarded generally as non-inducible, was increased by exposure to common valerian (linear to dose) and G. biloba (highest concentration). An allosteric activation is suggested. From the data obtained, G. biloba, common valerian and St. John's wort are suggested as candidates for clinically significant CYP interactions in vivo.

[EmbraceUnity]

Thanks guys, as soon as I read the warning not to take it with perscription medication, I immediately became skeptical. You have confirmed my decision not to take it.

[niner]

I don't think resveratrol is a significant p450 inhibitor. In the abstract that zoolander linked, the compounds they looked at were methylated resveratrols, not resveratrol itself. Because resveratrol is rapidly sulfated and glucuronidated, it's unlikely to bother the p450s anyway.

[EmbraceUnity]

EDIT: Post Deleted

Edited by progressive, 19 April 2007 - 11:07 AM.

[niteinnyc]

with all the substances many people here take I would think bioperine might well be one of the most dangerous (it turns off many different cytocrome p450 isoforms, which are the primary hydroxylators of drugs making it easy to OD on what might normally be a very inoculous dose).

This thread got me thinking how easy it might be for someone who isn't careful to take supplements containing ingredients that could do more harm than good (or even multiple supplements with the same culprit).

There are some great top 10 or best of threads that I learned a lot from. Maybe someone could start a worst of thread (or potentially worst of, since everything has pros and cons), which would most definitely be just as helpful to someone starting out or even those more advanced who might have missed something.

[health_nutty]

Maybe someone could start a worst of thread (or potentially worst of, since everything has pros and cons), which would most definitely be just as helpful to someone starting out or even those more advanced who might have missed something.

done.

[EmbraceUnity]

I am wondering what the long-term effects are of Bioperine (piperine) on health. I made a post on the Immortality Institute forums about it and came up with some disturbing information about it. People started a thread called "Bottom 10 Supplements" as a result of the information. I am currently buying the DNA Protection Formula instead of the Super Curcumin for that reason.

http://www.imminst.o...hl=bioperine&s=

The increased bioavailability from piperine is startling, so if the effects at low dosage levels are less severe than that thread indicates, then I could consider taking it. Know of any studies about the long-term effects?

Here are some studies on Bioperine (piperine). Based on this information, the concerns noted on the website seem overblown. According to the first study, if you weigh 176 lbs (80 kg), you would need to consume more than 90 mg per day before seeing any adverse effect. No one is recommending levels that high even in the short term. And with the very high LD50 level noted in the second study, you would have to consume a large amount of piperine before experiencing negative symptoms. We continue to believe that the increased assimilation of valuable nutrients associated with moderate intake of piperine is both safe and beneficial for members.


Immunotoxicological effects of piperine in mice. Toxicology. 2004 Mar 15;196(3):229-36.
·     Dogra RK,
·     Khanna S,
·     Shanker R.
Immunotoxicology Laboratory, Industrial Toxicology Research Centre, M.G. Marg, P.O. Box 80, Lucknow 226001, India.
The immunotoxicological effects of piperine were investigated in Swiss male mice, gavaged at a dose of 1.12, 2.25 or 4.5 mg/kg body weight for five consecutive days. All the dose levels had no overt toxic effect and the liver gained weight normally. Treatment at highest dose, however, resulted in significant decrease in the weight of spleen, thymus and mesenteric lymph nodes, but not of peripheral lymph nodes. All the dose levels suppressed the cellular population of lymphoid organs, except for the spleen, where the doses of 1.12 and 2.25 caused an increase. Haematologically, doses of 2.25 and 4.5 mg/kg caused a significant reduction in total leucocyte counts and differential leucocyte counts showed an increase in the percentage of neutrophils. The higher doses of 2.25 and 4.5 mg/kg suppressed the mitogenic response of B-lymphocyte to lipopolysaccharide. The number of primary antibody (IgM) forming cells in the spleen and the level of primary antibody in serum, was decreased. The doses of 1.12 and 2.25 mg/kg suppressed the mitogenic response of T-lymphocytes to phytohaemagglutinin and the nitroblue tetrazolium (NBT) dye reducing activity of peritoneal exudate cells (PECs). Since the lowest dose of 1.12 mg of piperine per kg body weight had no immunotoxic effect, it may be considered as immunologically safe "no observed adverse effect level (NOAEL)" dose.


Acute and subacute toxicity of piperine in mice, rats and hamsters. Toxicol Lett. 1983 May;16(3-4):351-9.
·     Piyachaturawat P,
·     Glinsukon T,
·     Toskulkao C.
Piperine is acutely toxic to mice, rats and hamsters. The LD50 values for a single i.v., i.p., s.c., i.g. and i.m. administration of piperine to adult male mice were 15.1, 43, 200, 330 and 400 mg/kg body wt, respectively. The i.p. LD50 value was increased to 60 mg/kg body wt in adult female and 132 mg/kg body wt in weanling male mice. In adult female rats, the i.p. LD50 value was 33.5 mg/kg body wt whereas the i.g. LD50 value was increased to 514 mg/kg body wt. Most animals given a lethal dose died of respiratory paralysis within 3-17 min. In subacute toxicity studies, the rats died within 1-3 days after treatment. Histopathologic changes included severe hemorrhagic necrosis and edema in gastrointestinal tract, urinary bladder and adrenal glands. Death of these animals may be attributable to multiple dysfunctions in their organs.


Efficacy of piperine, an alkaloidal constituent from Piper nigrum on erythrocyte antioxidant status in high fat diet and antithyroid drug induced hyperlipidemic rats. Cell Biochem Funct. 2006 Nov-Dec;24(6):491-8.
·     Vijayakumar RS,
·     Nalini N.
Department of Biochemistry, Annamalai University, Annamalainagar-608 002, Tamilnadu, India.
The main aim of this study was to investigate the effect of piperine on erythrocyte antioxidant status in high fat diet (HFD) and antithyroid drug induced hyperlipidemic rats. Male Wistar rats were divided into eight groups. The first four groups were fed a control diet and in addition were given respectively 1% carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC); 10 mg/kg body weight carbimazole (CM); 10 mg CM + 40 mg/kg body weight piperine and 10 mg CM + 2 mg/kg body weight atorvastatin (ATV). A similar pattern was followed for the next four groups except that they were all fed HFD instead of the control diet. Erythrocyte osmotic fragility, total cholesterol, phospholipids, lipid peroxidation products, enzymic and non-enzymic antioxidant status were studied in all experimental groups. Significantly increased osmotic fragility, total cholesterol/phospholipid ratio, thiobarbituric acid reactive substances and lipid hydroperoxides were observed in the plasma and erythrocytes of HFD fed and CM treated rats compared to the control. Superoxide dismutase, catalase, glutathione peroxidase, vitamin E and reduced glutathione in erythrocytes and vitamin C in the plasma were also significantly lowered in HFD fed, antithyroid drug treated rats compared to control animals. Concurrent piperine supplementation along with HFD and antithyroid drug administration normalized erythrocyte osmotic fragility, reduced lipid peroxidation, and improved the enzymic and non-enzymic antioxidant status compared to those rats that did not receive piperine. Thus, our results indicate that piperine supplementation markedly protects erythrocytes from oxidative stress by improving the antioxidant status in HFD fed antithyroid drug treated rats. Copyright © 2006 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.


Herb-drug interactions: a literature review. Drugs. 2005;65(9):1239-82.
·     Hu Z,
·     Yang X,
·     Ho PC,
·     Chan SY,
·     Heng PW,
·     Chan E,
·     Duan W,
·     Koh HL,
·     Zhou S.
Department of Pharmacy, Faculty of Science, National University of Singapore, Singapore.
Herbs are often administered in combination with therapeutic drugs, raising the potential of herb-drug interactions. An extensive review of the literature identified reported herb-drug interactions with clinical significance, many of which are from case reports and limited clinical observations.Cases have been published reporting enhanced anticoagulation and bleeding when patients on long-term warfarin therapy also took Salvia miltiorrhiza (danshen). Allium sativum (garlic) decreased the area under the plasma concentration-time curve (AUC) and maximum plasma concentration of saquinavir, but not ritonavir and paracetamol (acetaminophen), in volunteers. A. sativum increased the clotting time and international normalised ratio of warfarin and caused hypoglycaemia when taken with chlorpropamide. Ginkgo biloba (ginkgo) caused bleeding when combined with warfarin or aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid), raised blood pressure when combined with a thiazide diuretic and even caused coma when combined with trazodone in patients. Panax ginseng (ginseng) reduced the blood concentrations of alcohol (ethanol) and warfarin, and induced mania when used concomitantly with phenelzine, but ginseng increased the efficacy of influenza vaccination. Scutellaria baicalensis (huangqin) ameliorated irinotecan-induced gastrointestinal toxicity in cancer patients.Piper methysticum (kava) increased the 'off' periods in patients with parkinsonism taking levodopa and induced a semicomatose state when given concomitantly with alprazolam. Kava enhanced the hypnotic effect of alcohol in mice, but this was not observed in humans. Silybum marianum (milk thistle) decreased the trough concentrations of indinavir in humans. Piperine from black (Piper nigrum Linn) and long (P. longum Linn) peppers increased the AUC of phenytoin, propranolol and theophylline in healthy volunteers and plasma concentrations of rifamipicin (rifampin) in patients with pulmonary tuberculosis. Eleutheroccus senticosus (Siberian ginseng) increased the serum concentration of digoxin, but did not alter the pharmacokinetics of dextromethorphan and alprazolam in humans. Hypericum perforatum (hypericum; St John's wort) decreased the blood concentrations of ciclosporin (cyclosporin), midazolam, tacrolimus, amitriptyline, digoxin, indinavir, warfarin, phenprocoumon and theophylline, but did not alter the pharmacokinetics of carbamazepine, pravastatin, mycophenolate mofetil and dextromethorphan. Cases have been reported where decreased ciclosporin concentrations led to organ rejection. Hypericum also caused breakthrough bleeding and unplanned pregnancies when used concomitantly with oral contraceptives. It also caused serotonin syndrome when used in combination with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (e.g. sertraline and paroxetine).In conclusion, interactions between herbal medicines and prescribed drugs can occur and may lead to serious clinical consequences. There are other theoretical interactions indicated by preclinical data. Both pharmacokinetic and/or pharmacodynamic mechanisms have been considered to play a role in these interactions, although the underlying mechanisms for the altered drug effects and/or concentrations by concomitant herbal medicines are yet to be determined. The clinical importance of herb-drug interactions depends on many factors associated with the particular herb, drug and patient. Herbs should be appropriately labeled to alert consumers to potential interactions when concomitantly used with drugs, and to recommend a consultation with their general practitioners and other medical carers.


Reproductive toxicity of piperine in Swiss albino mice. Planta Med. 2000 Apr;66(3):231-6.
·     Daware MB,
·     Mujumdar AM,
·     Ghaskadbi S.
Animal Sciences Division, Agharkar Research Institute, Pune, India.
Piperine (CAS 94-62-2) is a constituent of various spices which are used as common food additives all over the world. The reproductive toxicity of piperine was studied in Swiss albino mice. Relevant short-term tests were employed to assess the effect on estrous cycle, mating behaviour, toxicity to male germ cells, fertilization, implantation and growth of pups. Piperine (10 and 20 mg/kg b.w.) increased the period of the diestrous phase which seemed to result in decreased mating performance and fertility. Post-partum litter growth was not affected by the piperine treatment. Sperm shape abnormalities were not induced by piperine at doses up to 75 mg/kg b.w. Considerable anti-implantation activity was recorded after five days post-mating oral treatment with piperine. The sex ratio and post-implantation loss were unaffected after treatment with piperine. Intrauterine injection of piperine caused the total absence of implants in either of the uterine horns (16.66%) or one of the horns (33%) of treated females. No histopathological changes were detected in the ovary and the uterus at the cellular level. Prostaglandin E1-induced acute inflammation of rat paw was significantly reduced after piperine treatment. Our results show that piperine interferes with several crucial reproductive events in a mammalian model.


Oral supplementation of piperine leads to altered phase II enzymes and reduced DNA damage and DNA-protein cross links in Benzo(a)pyrene induced experimental lung carcinogenesis. Mol Cell Biochem. 2005 Jan;268(1-2):141-7.
·     Selvendiran K,
·     Banu SM,
·     Sakthisekaran D.
Department of Medical Biochemistry, Dr ALM Post Graduate Institute of Basic Medical Sciences, University of Madras, Taramani Campus, Chennai, India.
In recent years, considerable emphasis has been focused on identifying new chemopreventive agents, which could be useful for the human population. Piperine is a pure, pungent alkaloid constituent of black and long peppers (piper nigrum and piper longum), which is a most common spice used throughout the world. In the present study, we examined the protective role of piperine during experimental lung carcinogenesis with reference to its effect on DNA damage and detoxification enzyme system. The activities of detoxifying enzymes such as glutathione transferase (GST), quinone reductase (QR) and UDP-glucuronosyl transferase (UDP-GT) were found to be decreased while the hydrogen peroxide level was increased in the lung cancer bearing animals. Supplementation of piperine (50 mg/kg bwt) enhanced the detoxification enzymes and reduced DNA damage as determined by single cell electrophoresis. Furthermore, the DNA-Protein cross links which was found to be high in lung cancer bearing animals was also modulated upon supplementation with piperine. Our present results explain the understanding of unique association between anti-peroxidative effect of piperine and ultimately the capability of piperine to prevent cancer.


Piperine mediated alterations in lipid peroxidation and cellular thiol status of rat intestinal mucosa and epithelial cells. Phytomedicine. 1999 Nov;6(5):351-5.
·     Khajuria A,
·     Johrn RK,
·     Zutshi U.
Manitoba Institute of Cell Biology, Winnipeg, Canada. khajuria@cc.umanitoba.ca
Piperine (1-Piperoyl piperidine) is the major alkaloid of black and long peppers used widely in various systems of traditional medicine. The present study investigates the toxicity of piperine via free-radical generation by determining the degree of lipid peroxidation and cellular thiol status in the rat intestine. Lipid peroxidation content, measured as thiobarbituric reactive substances (TBARS), was increased with piperine treatment although conjugate diene levels were not altered. A significant increase in glutathione levels was observed, whereas protein thiols and glutathione reductase activity were not altered. The study suggests that increased TBARS levels may not be a relevant index of cytotoxicity, since thiol redox was not altered, but increased synthesis transport of intracellular GSH pool may play an important role in cell hemostasis and requires further study.


Comparative anti-nociceptive, anti-inflammatory and toxicity profile of nimesulide vs nimesulide and piperine combination. Pharmacol Res. 2000 Jun;41(6):657-62.
·     Gupta SK,
·     Bansal P,
·     Bhardwaj RK,
·     Velpandian T.
Department of Pharmacology, All India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi, 110029, India.
Piperine is an inhibitor of various hepatic and other enzymes involved in the biotransformation of drugs. Preliminary pharmacokinetic studies conducted by us suggested the increased bioavailability of nimesulide co-administered with piperine. The present study was, thus, conducted to evaluate the antinociceptive, anti-inflammatory and toxicity profile of a new nimesulide-piperine combination administered orally as compared with nimesulide alone. Antinociceptive efficacy was tested using an acetic acid writhing test and tail flick latency test (TFL). The ED50 value of a nimesulide-piperine combination in writhing test was calculated to be significantly lower (1.5 mg kg(-1)) as compared to (11.2 mg kg(-1)) of nimesulide alone. The antinociceptive effect was lesser in the tail flick latency test as compared to what was observed in the writhing test indicating the peripheral action of the Non-Steriodal Anti-Inflammatory Drug (NSAID). In carrageenan-induced inflammatory tests, the nimesulide-piperine combination was found to be dose-to-dose superior than nimesulide alone. Acute toxicity studies on mice revealed a reduction in lethal dose (LD50) of the combination (980 mg kg(-1)) as compared to nimesulide (1500 mg kg(-1)) alone. Results from the present study suggest a better therapeutic index for the nimesulide-piperine combination indicating that this combination would further reduce the frequency of adverse effects associated with nimesulide alone. Copyright 2000 Academic Press.


Dave Tuttle
Health Advisor
Life Extension Scientific Information, Inc.
1-800-226-2370 EXT #7514
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[sUper GeNius]

I am wondering what the long-term effects are of Bioperine (piperine) on health. I made a post on the Immortality Institute forums about it and came up with some disturbing information about it. People started a thread called "Bottom 10 Supplements" as a result of the information. I am currently buying the DNA Protection Formula instead of the Super Curcumin for that reason.

http://www.imminst.o...hl=bioperine&s=

The increased bioavailability from piperine is startling, so if the effects at low dosage levels are less severe than that thread indicates, then I could consider taking it. Know of any studies about the long-term effects?

Here are some studies on Bioperine (piperine). Based on this information, the concerns noted on the website seem overblown. According to the first study, if you weigh 176 lbs (80 kg), you would need to consume more than 90 mg per day before seeing any adverse effect.

AOR resveratrol has 20mg piperine per 100mg t-res. If one uses the recommended dosage of 3 capsules, one will ingest 60mg of piperine!

[zoolander]

Look you could justifiably say that it's dangerous to deliberatly inhibit CYPs to maximise the absorption of a particular compound but we inhibit enzymes all the time to maximise function. ACheI, MAOI and so on. The problem with bioperine is that it inhibits CYPs and this often confuses people their functions is somewhat complex.

do a search on my previous posts related to CYPs. I'm no expert though. You would need to speak to a pharmacology major for that

[niner]

Regarding the papers from LEF, I suppose it's not too bad in rodents, if you don't mind a little repro-tox. And the human data is...? I guess we're just a bunch of Nervous Nellies here at imminst.

[spacetime]

I don't think resveratrol is a significant p450 inhibitor.  In the abstract that zoolander linked, the compounds they looked at were methylated resveratrols, not resveratrol itself.  Because resveratrol is rapidly sulfated and glucuronidated, it's unlikely to bother the p450s anyway.

I thought that was the exact reason why it was an inhibitor. It's rapid conjugation is due to it interacting with CYPs hence it acts as a competitive inhibitor.

[neogenic]

To quote AORsupport from Imminst.org:
Unless you have a totally toxin-free diet -- no overcooked foods, no pesticide residues in your meats and vegetables, no trace quantities of mycotoxins in your bread, etc -- and unless you have no sex steroids in your system, you rely on these processes to protect you against cancer on a continuous basis. Inhibiting them for a few hours every day to get better bioavailability out of your supplements is rather to mix up one's priorities.

For AOR Support to say this in regards to LEF and NSI (as well as the Sabinsa C3 supply)...kind of funny, given that they now put 20mg of piperine/bioperine in their resveratrol and then state this, when concerns are raised that its now safe and beneficial to the formulation.

UMMM...Concerns anyone?

[niner]

I don't think resveratrol is a significant p450 inhibitor.  In the abstract that zoolander linked, the compounds they looked at were methylated resveratrols, not resveratrol itself.  Because resveratrol is rapidly sulfated and glucuronidated, it's unlikely to bother the p450s anyway.

I thought that was the exact reason why it was an inhibitor. It's rapid conjugation is due to it interacting with CYPs hence it acts as a competitive inhibitor.

The conjugation is due to different enzymes, sulfotransferases and glucuronosyltransferases. CYPs are oxidative enzymes that typically stick a hydroxyl on a hydrocarbon, which is then often conjugated at the new hydroxyl. In the case of resveratrol, it already has three hydroxyls, so it probably would not even be bound very well in the typically hydrophobic active site of a CYP. Methylating it would make it much more hydrophobic, and more likely to interact with p450 sites.

[stephen_b]

The AOR product contains 20 mg of piper nigrum (peppercorns), not piperine.

From this site on spices

Total content of piperine-analogs in black pepper is about 5%

.
5% of 20 mg peppercorns would be about 1.0 mg of piperine. Plus, all of the other ingredients that naturally come with the pepper would be there. Maybe there is a synergistic effect?

Stephen

[neogenic]

To quote AORsupport from Imminst.org:
Unless you have a totally toxin-free diet -- no overcooked foods, no pesticide residues in your meats and vegetables, no trace quantities of mycotoxins in your bread, etc -- and unless you have no sex steroids in your system, you rely on these processes to protect you against cancer on a continuous basis. Inhibiting them for a few hours every day to get better bioavailability out of your supplements is rather to mix up one's priorities.

For AOR Support to say this in regards to LEF and NSI (as well as the Sabinsa C3 supply)...kind of funny, given that they now put 20mg of piperine/bioperine in their resveratrol and then state this, when concerns are raised that its now safe and beneficial to the formulation. 

UMMM...Concerns anyone?

I put this in another AOR thread, but it seems to me to be something that is really unsettling to me. I have always been a big fan of AOR and this comment was made on this board by AOR, ripping bioperine...making it seem to be the worst idea imaginable. Then they put it in their resveratrol product.

[health_nutty]

I put this in another AOR thread, but it seems to me to be something that is really unsettling to me.  I have always been a big fan of AOR and this comment was made on this board by AOR, ripping bioperine...making it seem to be the worst idea imaginable.  Then they put it in their resveratrol product.

Yeah, that's really messed up.

[mitkat]

5% of 20 mg peppercorns would be about 1.0 mg of piperine. Plus, all of the other ingredients that naturally come with the pepper would be there. Maybe there is a synergistic effect?

That's the only thing I can think of, and it seems reasonable. I don't see why AOR would just an ingredient in for no reason, especially one they themselves have scolded a purified form of publically.

[sUper GeNius]

I put this in another AOR thread, but it seems to me to be something that is really unsettling to me.  I have always been a big fan of AOR and this comment was made on this board by AOR, ripping bioperine...making it seem to be the worst idea imaginable.  Then they put it in their resveratrol product.

Yeah, that's really messed up.

Should I stop adding pepper to my egg sandwich??

[Shepard]

Should I stop adding pepper to my egg sandwich??

No, just kick it up a notch. Cayenne > Black pepper. Bam.

[EmbraceUnity]

I am so confused.

[health_nutty]

So do all of you that avoid bioprene also avoid black pepper?

[stephen_b]

Well, mark me down as avoiding bioprene, eating black pepper, and taking AOR resveratrol.

And yes, cayenne is so very good ...

Stephen