23 replies to this topic

[sentinel]

Morning

I have been looking at SAMe which is a nightmare to search on (in our forum) due to it's spelling and am interested in trying it for both its purported mood brightening benefits and potential joint relief (although this may be limited to osteoarthritis sufferers).

Whereas most anecdotal reports indicate positive effects there also seems a fair amount of negative sides in the form of insomnia and/or anxiety generally tied into the stimulating effects some people experience.

I'd be interested in any experience people have had, good and bad, and any brands they would recommend as it's not cheap if taking in the higher dose range (eg 1600mg).

Sentinel

[staceyo]

I tried taking SAMe for depression. I was taking 50 mg (I believe) in the morning. It had a strange effect on me...it initially would make me feel sleepy, but that quickly wore off. Then I would feel a weird little buzz for a few hours. Kind of like a caffeine buzz, but without the energy. Not pleasant, but not unpleasant either. I also found that I seemed to be more irritated on the days that I took it (but that might be a coincidence). I only took it for 2 weeks on and off, so I can't say if it would have a good long-term effect.

[catdaddy]

About two years ago, I had a three week period when I did a detoxification regimen: 2 week herbal cleanse, no caffeine, no alcohol, quit smoking, lots of running. The only supplements aside from the cleanse that I took were calcium pyruvate and 800 mg SAMe(mood plus, just the walmart brand). I also used holosync brainwave entrainment during that time. I have to say that for those three weeks I experienced the greatest mental clarity and ongoing euphoria of my entire life. I felt incredible! My anxiety issues were totally gone, and I felt the way I always thought that I should feel.

More recently though I took SAMe again(same brand, same dosage) for a two month period , hoping it would help with depression. I didn't enact the other lifestyle changes this time however. I thought that it was giving some kind of help, but about a week ago I stopped taking it and noticed I felt somehow 'cleaner', in terms of body load and mental noise. I believe that may be because I was still drinking my coffee this time and the combination raised my dopamine levels too high- I'm not sure.

So I think the results you get from SAMe depend not only on brand and dosage, but also what else you are putting in your body( of course!)

[sentinel]

Crikey!

Those are pretty pronounced reactions.I tend to react quite strongly to stimulants so I'll back off from any modalert or caffeine when I try it. Being in the uk I don't have access to Walmart although that doesn't appear to be a great loss .

[stephen_b]

Reports about SAMe causing episodes of mania in some people frankly scare me, especially having seen bipolar disorder in my family.

Also, see this wikipedia article.

People who have a history of bipolar disorder are at risk of developing manic symptoms from SAMe, just like other antidepressants. Also, studies of SAMe have shown that taking oral or injected doses of the compound induces mania in patients without previously diagnosed bipolar disorder more frequently than most other antidepressants.

Stephen

[tintinet]

I've taken 400 mg in the AM several times, different brands, but never really noticed any immediate effect.

[sentinel]

It seems more down to the individual and their current supplement intake than the brand.

Orthomolecular, I may well take your test prior to use of just buy a small batch and deep-end it. If I feel anxious, breathless etc then I'll just ditch it but it really looks like one of those "suck it and see" supplements. Very scientific.

Sentinel

[ageless]

Look for a quality reputable brand also. There tends to be a high variation in the quality of SAMe and you could get something entirely worthless. I believe Consumer Labs or/and LEF did a report awhile ago that showed most SAMe products failed their tests.
Currently I have been using AOR's stable SAMe for well over a year now with benefits for depression and low mood. I find I can take a few days off, but when I take it I usually notice an improved mood and energy. I only take 400mg most days and also take it with other methyl donors such as B6, B12, folic acid and TMG such as in their awesome Ortho Methyl product.
Overall my life has improved drastically since incorporating SAMe over a year ago. It may or may not be the reason, but possibly a valuable tool in my arsenal against low mood/depression.

[sentinel]

Interesting stuff Ageless and glad to hear it has been so beneficial to you.
On the supplier side I went bought some Source Natural SAMe last night as they seem to be a fairly consistent if not 1st tier brand, which come in 200mg pills so I can start low and find my level. I take a fairly comprehensive vitamin regime covering the B complex thoroughly.

Should be hear in a few days so I'll let you know (iherb deliver from US to UK faster than most of my UK suppliers!).

Sentinel

[Rienzo]

I've used SAM-e off an on for the last year with generally good results. In my opinion it can be especially useful for creative work. As a writer, I will sometimes take it first thing in the morning and then wait about 30-60 mins. to eat anything, and then only sparingly. This ensures maximum bioavailability. It also has a mild appetite suppressing effect which makes light eating easier in the morning. Subjectively it is comparable to a mild rush of euphoria and excitement, a way to access inspiration on demand as a writer. This may due to its dopamine effects in addition to serotonin. I generally experience an increase in energy and, strangely for an antidepressant, an increase in libido. It has also been found to resensitize the dopamine-rich nucleus accumbens which is important for deriving pleasure.

Although I tried several brands in hopes of saving money, Nature Made has been the only consistently good brand for me. And then I usually need at least 800 mg. for a significant effect. 1200-1600 mg. seems optimal, and I once wrote 2/3 of a screenplay in the course of a week at this dosage level. It can be cost-prohibitive though, which is why I tend to use it intermittently. The only negative side-effect I've experienced is a slight increase in irritability when it wears off in the afternoon, similar to a caffeine comedown. I write about nutrition and creativity on my website, and you can read more about SAM-e research and personal experiences with it here.

[pycnogenol]

Rienzo,

Is each SAM-e tablet of this Nature Made brand enteric-coated and foil blister-packed for stability?

[rwac]

Rienzo,

Is each SAM-e tablet of this Nature Made brand enteric-coated and foil blister-packed for stability?

Does it improve absorption to have SAMe enteric coated ?

Edited by rwac, 11 February 2009 - 06:06 PM.

[pycnogenol]

Rienzo,

Is each SAM-e tablet of this Nature Made brand enteric-coated and foil blister-packed for stability?

Does it improve absorption to have SAMe enteric coated ?

That's what I'm to figure out!

[bran319]

I LOVE SAM-e! It is easily my favorite supplement. Interestingly, I notice a very positive syngery with folic acid. My mind is very sharp and clear on these two supplements. I would like to try a sublingual SAM-e but I can't find one. I figured it would be a cost effective and efficient way to take it since only a very small percentage is actually absorbed orally. There is an injectable made but it is pricey and I don't like needles.

[Rienzo]

Yes, Nature Made SAM-e is enteric coated, as this is only way it can pass through the stomach without being destroyed. SAM-e is very unstable, which is why it is foil blister-packed, and unless it is coated properly it will not be bioavailable. This is also the reason why it must be taken on an empty stomach 30-60 mins. before eating anything. I have tried other brands of SAM-e that are both enteric-coated and foil blister-packed, but the Nature Made brand has always given me the best results. It may have something to do with the particular SAM-e salt they use, as the exact salt affects the amount of SAM-e that can be absorbed.

[FunkOdyssey]

SAMe helps with methylation. If you don't know if you over methylate or under methylate you can take a test.

Buy 50 mg. of nicotinic acid and take that on an empty stomach. If that does causes a flush then you should take SAMe because you are an under methylator. If you do not flush don't waste your money on SAMe.

You maybe a low histamine type which means you over methylate. To determine that you have to try a higher dose of nicotinic acid. If 100 mg. of NA makes you flush then you have normal histamine levels. You do not have to worry so much now about methylation.

If it can take up to 250 mg. to cause a flush then you have low histamine levels. Do not take SAMe but take niacin and all the other b vitamins and research what supplements you need by the orthomolecular approach.

This is completely wrong, we have now learned the niacin flush is not mediated by histamine. Zero involvement of histamine. Makes you wonder how much of the rest of the histadelic this, overmethylation that stuff would collapse under scrutiny.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 12 February 2009 - 05:10 PM.

[youandme]

I found 'Doctor's Best' Enteric Coated..to have a very noticeable effect.

The first time I tried..I felt euphoria.

In fact I wouldn't think you would need to supp too much of this..

I would take this only on occasion..seems to help lift the mood if you feel downward pressure coming on.

http://www.iherb.com...x?pid=4732&at=0

[bran319]

Doctor's Best is what I use as well. Seems to be the best value and works as well as other brands I've tried like Nature Made.

I don't understand why sam-e is so expensive? I'm guessing it is because it is actually effective.

[OneScrewLoose]

I have a hard time getting up in the morning, this stuff helps a lot with that. I take 400mg in the morning, go back to sleep for a bit, reset my alarm and get up in about 20 min.

[sentinel]

Wow, I had no idea my thread had been bumped into '08!

Thanks for everyone's input. Sadly my experience was that I didn't notice any measurable mood or joint improvement and it joins the list of supplements that I might give another crack someday because of the positive studies and extensive anecdotal "evidence".

[stephen_b]

I tried 400 mg of the Doctor's Best brand for a couple of weeks. I didn't notice much in the way of effects, but I did notice the 800 mg this morning. Definitely stimulating.

StephenB

[spaceistheplace]

For a short time I took 400mg of the Jarrow brand in the morning on an empty stomach. It made me extremely manic so I stopped.

[stephen_b]

I've run out of SAM-e lately, but not rhodiola. It appears that some of the effects in mood that I was attributing to rhodiola were really from SAM-e.

I'm not in a bad mood without the SAM-e (I'm pretty calm, in fact), though a little withdrawn. There might be some synergy between SAM-e and rhodiola, or perhaps they are complimentary. My normal dose is one Doctors Best SAM-e and one 100 mg New Chapter rhodiola.