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Aniracetam or the much more expensive Ampakines?


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#1 Guest_aidanpryde_*

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 06:52 PM


I am using right now modafinil and I have nice results, to be honest I have for the first time real results with a nootropicagent.
And no, I am not using it to stay awake the whole night, because this is silly and contraproductive.
But as many of you mentioned, modafinil may be very interesting but is still not "the real" deal compared with ampakines.
I study right now and need something (as we all seem to do) to enhance my learning capabilities, so drugs modulating the AMPA-receptor seem to be very interesting for me. I have already experimented for this purpose with the cholinergic drug aricept (donepezil) but I think it did nothing for me (without mentioning the cramps around my eyelid, to much ach).

Why Aniracetam? Because studies have shown an activity on the AMPA receptor. Probably weaker then the action of ampakines bu perhaps strong enough to notice an effect.
The other option would be the use of ampakines.
Yes I know that it is nearly impossible to get some, but I am lucky enough to have this option through a very nice connection/friendship. The only problem is, I would have to buy in bulk to get it for a reasonable price. Therefore I am thinking between using this two agents. So tell me about your aniracetam experiences? Worth using it or not?
Piracetam often gave me some kind of outbuzzed effect, so not always improving my abilities, but sometimes worsening them. Does aniracetam has very similar effects?

greets

#2 medievil

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 04:21 PM

i would go for pramiracetam or phenotropil, the best nootropic around now

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#3 Guest_aidanpryde_*

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 10:23 PM

Hm now it is a little bit to late, I have decided and will get some CX516 and try out how good it really is.
For the high price I paid, it should be, or I will be really, really disappointed. :)
That means I expect something with a better effect then modafinil delivers me.
I hope to have good news for you all after testing them and a nice experience thread later.

Phenotropil sounds nice in the one available abstract, but besides this, I have just found 2 other and this is not enough information for me to be interested.

#4 jackinbox

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 11:28 PM

How much did you pay? You could resell some of it to cover your cost...

#5 Guest_aidanpryde_*

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 08:29 PM

I don`t like to discuss money issues in public but to give you a hint, for 25 gramm I have paid enough to make a nice 1-2 weeks of vacation on the maldive islands.
But this is ok, I am going to write several tests and if it is helpfull, the price is worth it.
Of course I could cover my costs by reselling some, but if this stuff works I guess I will keep the most of it for myself and if it does not, I would never sell some of it. If it is really effective, as I hope, then I am thinking about ordering in bulk.

#6 jackinbox

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 10:21 PM

Keep us informed about your experience.

#7 Ghostrider

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 06:54 AM

I don`t like to discuss money issues in public but to give you a hint, for 25 gramm I have paid enough to make a nice 1-2 weeks of vacation on the maldive islands.
But this is ok, I am going to write several tests and if it is helpfull, the price is worth it.
Of course I could cover my costs by reselling some, but if this stuff works I guess I will keep the most of it for myself and if it does not, I would never sell some of it. If it is really effective, as I hope, then I am thinking about ordering in bulk.


Any luck?

#8 Guest_aidanpryde_*

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 06:58 AM

I hope to recieve it to the end of this or the beginning of the next week, will keep you informed.

#9 ziddy5

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 12:42 PM

Update?

#10 luv2increase

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 05:54 PM

Maybe he died from an AMPA overload?

#11 ziddy5

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 11:02 PM

Update?

#12 brutale

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 04:19 PM

yes, you can definitely feel provigil !!

I don't know anything about ampakines, but can comment about my personal experiences with aniracetam, and the other racetams. In my subjective experience, aniracetam produces more dramatic and detectable short-run effects than piracetam or oxiracetam. I sometimes get a distinct brightening and sharpening of vision or "clearer" auditory experiences, but this tends to pass after 3 or 4 hours.

Aniracetam and especially oxiracetam also give me a slightly edgy, anxious feel. Piracetam (at 2 or 3 times the dosage) seems to help my memory and mellows my mood more than ani or oxi. Piracetam + hydergine works well for me.

Do keep in mind that I'm also taking ALCAR, alpha GPC, some vinpo, gingko, ashwagandha, hormones, etc.

Your experience may be different. My two cents.

#13 luv2increase

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 04:26 PM

yes, you can definitely feel provigil !!

I don't know anything about ampakines, but can comment about my personal experiences with aniracetam, and the other racetams.  In my subjective experience, aniracetam produces more dramatic and detectable short-run effects than piracetam or oxiracetam.  I sometimes get a distinct brightening and sharpening of vision or "clearer" auditory experiences, but this tends to pass after 3 or 4 hours. 

Aniracetam and especially oxiracetam also give me a slightly edgy, anxious feel.  Piracetam (at 2 or 3 times the dosage) seems to help my memory and mellows my mood more than ani or oxi.    Piracetam + hydergine works well for me.

Do keep in mind that I'm also taking ALCAR, alpha GPC, some vinpo, gingko,  ashwagandha, hormones, etc.

Your experience may be different.  My two cents.



How old are you and what type of hormones are we talking about here?

#14 labpv

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 01:36 PM

We are a gruop of italian cellular neurophysiologists involved since years in research on glutamatergic transmission and plasticity. We would be interested in testing the effect of Ampakines in cerebellar preparation in vitro but till now we haven't found a commercial site for purchasing Ampakines.
Could you please help us?
Please contact me at andreflieshigh@tiscali.it

Dipartimento di Scienze Fisologiche Farmacologiche e Molecolari
Univerity of Pavia
www.unipv.it/dsffcm/pagine/labs/dangelo/dangelo.html

#15 cmorera

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 03:14 PM

strange that Aidanpryde didn't post here about any results he had =]

#16 graatch

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 08:01 PM

I hope he didn't die. :p

#17 bob_d

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 03:11 AM

he's become an evil genius and hides from the rest of us, i think.

#18 rlipoicacid

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 09:19 PM

Idebenone is a great ampakine

#19 cmorera

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 10:35 PM

Idebenone is a great ampakine


im not sure thats a factual statement.

#20 Guest_aidanpryde_*

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 04:02 PM

I must confess, I really like the sarcastic humor of some guys here, perhaps because it is similar to mine. :p
So far I can understand your jokes, we all are really interested in this compounds and I let you wait for so long. I will explain why.
I have not written since a whole while here, and this is the only place I have to write english, so if my english has become worse I apologize already now for any misunderstandings.

I have used the ampakine Ampalex (CX516) in the last months. Not only me but also several other persons. In my opinion it is nearly worthless to write anything like a report based just on my own experiences, so I waited for some others and their experiences. Even used by much more persons, but without scientific protocol, placebo group and so on, it is not really significant. Look at the papers and studies done by Cortex and other researching groups, the results vary, from very usefull for treatment of several diseases to nearly useless. Cortex has pointed out, that some research was not done with a proper dose of CX516.

I would also prefer to use the stronger CX717 but as you know the structure is still secret, I have decided for CX516 and not some other like CX614 or CX546, because the most research was done with Ampalex (and later CX717). It may be not so effective like the newer compound because of its shorter half life, but with a proper dosage I do not think, that this is a matter, also because of other factors of it`s pharmaceutical properties especially the release of nerve growth factors. Some studies have shown that even days after ceasing the use of ampalex, the effect was still present for days, perhaps also due to the sensitizing of the AMPAr which lasted longer.

So how it feels?
The first time I have used this compound I took about 300mg. It was a little bit exciting, the waiting for the action to take place. I have expected it to be similar to Modafinil, perhaps also because of the modulation of the glutamergic pathway. It is different, they may be some aspects these two share, but Modafinil is definately more promoting wakefullness and motivation, especially the last one may be caused through the involvation of the dopamine, which is not present in Ampalex so far as I know. Taking Modafinil, you feel clearly after 2 hours that you are "on" some psychic active agent. Ampalex is different here, after 1 hour of ingestion, one feels something taking place (you know what I mean, a change in your feeling, thoughts, for example when you feel hyperactive on coffein) but it is much more slight. Even with 600mg (the dose I use usually now) one does not feel "high" or strongly affected, the psychic sideffects are not so strong present as with other pharmaceuticals.

But there is a change, it is really difficult for me to describe it, I only can try. I can notice it when I am learning something or I have to understand correletions between some mechanism (for example in molecular biology etc.) to visualize the things I hear in the university or I read about. Sometimes the effect on the memory is very strong noticable, especially after learning for tests. The cognition is enhanced but not on the way it happens with modafinil (or higher dosages of modafinil). With modafinil one sometimes has a kind of thinking that is very concentrated, but it can dimnish the outside thinking, you focus on one way towards a solution and don`t see the others (as I sad difficult to describe), one would say that the phantasy is a little bit limited, if this is the right word for that. With Ampalex this is not the case, much more it may be helpfull to see other ways, to combine the learned informations and to see the links between issues. For me it was also interesting to notice, that the effect wasn`t very strong on the first day but it was on the second and stronger on the third one. I don`t know if this is caused by the growth factors or by some other mechanism.
Now I am using often a mixture of just a small ammount of modafinil (never more then 50mg, usually 30-40mg) and 600mg Ampalex. Sometimes adding green tee.
Modafinil gives me the state of totally wakefullness, which combined with the effects of Amaplex are simply great allowing one unbelievable concentration and allow an easier understanding and memorizing of the lectures.

I have tried many nootropics and although I know that here are enough enthusiasts who don`t want to hear this and will come up with the argument that I should not compare myself to all other people (what works for you won`t work for someone else and so on and on....) I have to say, that I have only used 2 or 3 that have ever worked.
Modafinil, Ampalex and perhaps green tee as addition to those 2. Everything else was totaly useless or even caused a state, where my abilities were more dimnished than enhanced. Perhaps are my claims higher, but the nootropic market is, as I have mentioned before a little bit absurd, giving nearly any psychological active agent the word "nootropic" as an attachment. So this is how I want to end this short report. You want me in the end to say if I think ampalex works.
And in my subjective opinion I can say: Yes, it does.

Edited by aidanpryde, 28 October 2007 - 04:21 PM.


#21 stargazer

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 04:44 PM

Ah, finally a review, thank you very much. Now, where can others get it? Please feel free to pm me if you want.

#22 blazewind

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 05:50 AM

Wow, it's nice to hear a first hand report on CX516. Any way to get ahold of any to test?

#23 jackinbox

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 02:06 AM

Thanks a lot for your feedback Aidanpryde! Now, the 2000$ question: where did you get it! Did you have it custom synthetized? Is your father CEO of Cortex? How much it did cost to you?

We need to get more guinea pigs involved in the test of Ampakines! There is many volonteers out there!

#24 zacky

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 03:14 PM

I fine aniracetam to be pleasant.

#25 Guest_aidanpryde_*

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 12:50 PM

Hehe no my father is not the CEO, so I and someone else had another company to synthesize it for us and as I mentioned before, it was not really cheap including the synthesis research and buying in bulk. But I hope you understand that I do not want to discuss this question in public.
I hope my review was interesting for you.

#26 hamishm00

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 03:11 PM

Very interesting, and very unfair that we also can't experience it!

#27 jackinbox

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:04 AM

Yes, I understand. You cannot say that I didn't try! But damn! I'm so curious about de price... most be a real wallet thinner.

#28 jackinbox

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 02:28 AM

I'm wondering if some people involved in the ampakine's development use them themselves. It must be really tempting. It's known that the creator of Deprenyl use it himself but I don't know if he began to use it before or after it has been approved.

#29 Guest_aidanpryde_*

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 11:26 AM

@jackinbox
I would rather call other "nootropics" on the market, wallet thinners.
Since one pays usually for nothing, the effects caused by this agents are not worth the money, nor they enhance really the aspects of cognition, memory and so on. Sure, deprenyl may be healthy, but it never has done for me anything in the nootropic direction, low dosage piracetam may also be healthy for the brain, it made me more talkative, sometimes I could visualize things better, but it also never intensified my concentration, memory or the speed of solving problems or faster understanding of some new issue, much more it gave me several times a buzz, which would get me nearly to sleep although I was sitting in the university. So I had to fight against the fog and sleepness instead of be focussing on the lecture. (yes my Cholin supplementation was right at this time) Some other agents like bromocriptine or hydergine are simply laughable when used for this purpose, they will more cause the opposite effect.

The first time I tried modafinil (100mg, I don`t understand why some switch to 200mg, which is more contraproductive, even 50mg are very fine) and were doing a lot of homework, my first thoughts were: "Damn, this is how it should feel and work, when your brain is really enhanced."
It is not my point of view, that Modafinil and Ampalex are the most perfect and final nootropics we will ever get, but they are the only working one.
So I also don`t think of Ampalex as for too expensive, because it is worth the money, without having the feeling that it was thrown away.
The most expensive point was the first invested research of synthesis.

@hamishm00
I can understand you, but I think the problem here is that the most people who want to test this, are more interested in really small quantities.

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#30 blazewind

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 03:10 PM

Before writing off all other notropics, have you tried any other racetams? piracetam creates brain fog and headaches for me even with choline, yet with oxiracetam I have superb focus and clarity with no headaches and even no choline.

I am really wondering about CX516 vs. aniracetam because CX516 was designed based on aniracetam. Does it have a different effect, or the same effect and more potent? Like maybe 600mg CX516 =~ 2250mg aniracetam?

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How long does the effect of 600mg CX516 last?

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This guy got a quote from a Chinese synethsizer, CX516 1KG/$4000
http://groups.google...b2974bda1fea0ee

which turns out to be $2.50~ per 600mg Ampalex which I would pay if it worked on me.




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