54 replies to this topic

[roidjoe]

Most people would probably think you're quacks, and rightfully so.

[Athanasios]

Most people would probably think you're quacks, and rightfully so.

?


Is it due to following ethics instead of morals?

[roidjoe]

Most people would probably think you're quacks, and rightfully so.

?


Is it due to following ethics instead of morals?

Existence


The idea of living forever, of being attached to your ego - and not being free as in, death is just boundless existence and life is, perhaps, as the bible says - suffering. You do realize that your matter, ie. the energy that encompasses yourself, is infinite and will exist forever and has existed before and will exist in the future. You are not going anywhere. You are the universe, itself, and there is no separation of yourself from it. Now, why would anyone want their ego to be bound to their bodies for eternity? It is, indeed, perhaps some sort of a mental illness. Considering the average person does not think of these things, consciously, we cannot rule out that this knowledge does not exist in their subconscious - and most certainly I believe is does. They realize they are not masters of life and that there exists existence beyond death, but we, as "Immortalists" do not accept that and strive to the heights of perfection and to the ultimate lonely desire, immortality. What you don't realize is that you are immortal, already. Now, sure, the highly gifted individuals will realize that the average person is nothing but a fool and will strive to better himself as much as possible. Thus being said, improving your lot and trying to avoid the inevitable are hardly akin.

It's just the cycle of existence.

Edited by roidjoe, 05 March 2007 - 12:44 AM.

[Zarrka]

ooh an ethics vs morals distinction.. im going to have to get catch up on a few threads i think

but no, id imagine most people would think you are "quacks" as such as the technology simply is not here atm. im sure the first person who thought up the idea for the telephone was greeted with the same labeling. no moral matter, they might just think you have a better chance of being beemed up then actually gaining immortality for now.

not to say that its not possible for the future. just for now, its sci fi for the general population.

[Zarrka]

  You are not going anywhere.  You are the universe, itself, and there is no separation of yourself from it.  Now, why would anyone want their ego to be bound to their bodies for eternity? 

i think the point is that if you are not *aware* of your forever exsistance then its not reall *you* living forever. you cant experience such immortality after death... and so for those who do want to experience your solution is not really a solution. its just like talking of reincarnation... you are reborn into another body to learn from that.. but so what? all of the things that made you in a previous life are forgotten or buried deep inthe subconsious according to the theory. and its not the kind of exsistance i see people who are posting here wanting.

i might be the universe but i dont know the feeling of floating in space and seeing the stars from above earth. why is there a case for living in the human body? cause thats kinda where people identify themselves from. and with our own expereinces in our own lifetime. i cant experience my ego outside of my own body, unless some kind of cyborg esk transplantation is possible which some in the AI realm are keen on. my mind wont detach and propell itsseslf through and be part of the universe once im dead.

[Athanasios]

....The idea of living forever, of being attached to your ego - and not being free as in, death is just boundless existence and life is, perhaps, as the bible says - suffering.  You do realize that your matter, ie. the energy that encompasses yourself, is infinite and will exist forever and has existed before and will exist in the future.  You are not going anywhere.  You are the universe, itself, and there is no separation of yourself from it.  Now, why would anyone want their ego to be bound to their bodies for eternity?  It is, indeed, perhaps some sort of a mental illness....

I do prize energy that is conscious more than energy that is not. I also see value in experiencing the universe subjectively. If I am to go back to energy that does not have consciousness, why not live longer until then. If it does not matter, why not walk off of a cliff? Why value life?

[Live Forever]

quack quack.

[Athanasios]

There is a pube under the large duck you know

[Zarrka]

its all part of the cycle..

[AaronCW]

Existence

The idea of living forever, of being attached to your ego - and not being free as in, death is just boundless existence and life is, perhaps, as the bible says - suffering.  You do realize that your matter, ie. the energy that encompasses yourself, is infinite and will exist forever and has existed before and will exist in the future.  You are not going anywhere.  You are the universe, itself, and there is no separation of yourself from it.  Now, why would anyone want their ego to be bound to their bodies for eternity?  It is, indeed, perhaps some sort of a mental illness.  Considering the average person does not think of these things, consciously, we cannot rule out that this knowledge does not exist in their subconscious - and most certainly I believe is does.  They realize they are not masters of life and that there exists existence beyond death, but we, as "Immortalists" do not accept that and strive to the heights of perfection and to the ultimate lonely desire, immortality.  What you don't realize is that you are immortal, already.  Now, sure, the highly gifted individuals will realize that the average person is nothing but a fool and will strive to better himself as much as possible.  Thus being said, improving your lot and trying to avoid the inevitable are hardly akin.

It's just the cycle of existence.

There is nothing delusional, dishonest, or unatural about the desire to live as long in good health as possible. In addition, the methods which may be employed in this goal are well beyond speculation. On the other hand, the fact that all matter is composed of energy and the thermodynamic law of the conservation of energy has no bearing on the phenomenon of life and conciousness, and your dream-like fantasy of a universal/cosmic afterlife conciousness is the only delusion at hand.

[dimasok]

Roidjoe
Energy (i.e. information) is conserved but not structure (i.e. meaning). The latter is an entropic state (i.e. emergent ephemera) of the former. We are nothing but momentary, infinitesmal ripples of self-awareness on the dark surface of this cosmic pond. The entire history of life on this planet is as lasting and deep as breath on a mirror; and nothing scientifically observed about -- which I'm aware of -- contradicts, or even mitigates, this interpretation. Immortalists are trying to retain this ripple of self-awareness to infinity and beyond, and that has nothing to do with the dark surface of this cosmic pond itself (i.e. we're all a part of it anyway).

[Zarrka]

moatly because if you loose that ripple of selfawareness then you loose selfawareness and then there is no pint in *knowing* that after its gone your energy will still be around... most immortalists will not think thats a brilliant way to spend eternity if you cant expereince it.

yes, they want to maintain the ripple. so let them try.. and hope it does not create a tidal wave elsewhere.

[dimasok]

moatly because if you loose that ripple of selfawareness then you loose selfawareness and then there is no pint in *knowing* that after its gone your energy will still be around... most immortalists will not think thats a brilliant way to spend eternity if you cant expereince it.

yes, they want to maintain the ripple. so let them try.. and hope it does not create a tidal wave elsewhere.

Exactly. Existence is pretty sad which is why i'm a transhumanist myself. To obliterate the "human condition" once and for all.

[maestro949]

Most people would probably think you're quacks, and rightfully so.

And your point is?

[John Schloendorn]

Is it due to following ethics instead of morals?

I think this hit the nail on the head.

[crazyquakcrkpot]

yep you caught us

[Live Forever]

yep you caught us

Lol. I like that your first post is in this thread, and "quak" is included in your name.

[Zarrka]

pfft you only hit the nail on the head if you start making radical distinctions between morals and ethics. i find these distinctions are usually only made in high lvl philosophy, which is fine, but im sure the people making such statements dont think of it in terms of ethics and morlaity. they think of it in terms of "gut" feeling, if that makes any sense. for many, living forever just dosent feel right. And unfortunantly that is also seems to be a valid argument these days. or at least a valid starting point.

[Karomesis]

Most people would probably think you're quacks, and rightfully so.

people thought it was insane to talk through wires too. [lol]

I assume you're one of those fools? part of the similar thinking masses who follow each other to the slaughter of decay and death....have fun. [thumb] I wont be joining you anytime soon.

[Aegist]

I think ethics is the latin version and morals are the greek version. Any definitional difference you put on them, is personal choice. Thus assuming that everyone else differentiates the two words on the same definition as you is a bad move.

[Zarrka]

oh no, there are very heavy and violent debates in philosophy between the diffrence between ethics and morlas. i think its a pretty abartory destinction personally. And a lot of good time has been wasted defining each.

id prefer the time be spent actaully giving some kind of restriction to the definition of mind, personally.

[stephenszpak]

I just posted this so you all have probably just seen it. (Just skip
over this if you have.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well the PTB gave the title:

Immortality Institute

and NOT

Longevity Institute

implying that living forever and ever is something that is actually possible.
{Longevity Institute is a name already taken too, but I think that is besides
the point.}

immortality - endless life , impossible
the word is spiritual

longevity - long life , possible
the word is scientific/medical

[stephenszpak]

Another previous post:

I thought the

Immortality Institute - Advocacy & Research For Unlimited Lifespans

was for those that can't accept death. This is the religion of the Institute, right?
Trying to find a way to transform yourselves from mortals to immortals.

[Live Forever]

Another previous post:

I thought the

Immortality Institute - Advocacy & Research For Unlimited Lifespans

was for those that can't accept death. This is the religion of the Institute, right?
Trying to find a way to transform yourselves from mortals to immortals.

"religion" of the Institute?

We are all about extending human lifespans, that is the whole point of what draws us together. Some people think different things are more important than others, but I doubt very many would consider it a "religion".

Edited by Live Forever, 20 March 2007 - 05:22 AM.

[stephenszpak]

From same post:

I mean, the title states it's NOT about living a long and productive life. But about
living forever.

http://www.imminst.o...20

[Athanasios]

I mean, the title states it's NOT about living a long and productive life.

It is about living a long and productive life. The 'living forever' and 'Immortality' part is about not self-imposing limits on our lives, our nature, our humanity, and our possibilities.

Living forever may not be possible, but it is something to shoot for. It is about always looking to improve the human situation. It emphasizes how much we value life and humanity. It is a symbol saying that it is a continual process. Unfortunately, many people do not understand why we should 'reach for the stars' (which is a saying for reaching for the infinite).

Like infinity in mathematics, our goal is for 100 years, then 150, then 200, then so on to 'infinity'. The point is that it is a continual goal. We want it open-ended.

[Athanasios]

Immortality Institute - Advocacy & Research For Unlimited Lifespans

was for those that can't accept death. This is the religion of the Institute, right?
Trying to find a way to transform yourselves from mortals to immortals.

I find that many who are here are here because they have faced death enough that they find it absurd to not do anything about it if possible. Many ignore death, they do not live with it. If you have seen people die in front of you, seen their body afterwards without all the make-up and illusion of a funeral, etc, you realize how much our culture romanticizes it. It is very easy to be frightened of it, and compartmentalize this fear into a place that you do not have to deal with it. People put it away in some corner far away from their lives, and make abstract ideas and philosophies to mask their fear. The institute is the opposite of this, it is about facing death head on. It is about dealing with the problem, accepting that it is a problem, and doing something about it. If by doing something today, we can save a great many lives in the foreseeable future, we should. There is no difference in prolonging someones life, in a healthy state, and saving their life.

[ajar]

I watched a document today which explained that scientists have validated it that all matter will be torn apart in the final chill of the universe which will make it a dead space. Perhaps some have asked this question here already - However, I write it up. How does being immune to genetic death or additionally to all disease make it easier to finally face material death? I'm interested in immortality as a means to discover profound secrets about all that is, perhaps even after the end chill of this universe. Secondly of how immortality will change the everyday experience of humanity.

[JohnDoe1234]

If you have seen people die in front of you, seen their body afterwards without all the make-up and illusion of a funeral, etc, you realize how much our culture romanticizes it

That is so true... you know, if it didn't make me look like a sick freak, I would probably go and collect a bunch of dead and mutilated bodies and put them all into a nice little gallery, and every time someone says something like: "death is natural and is part of god's plan!" I would have some good ammunition

I watched a document today which explained that scientists have validated it that all matter will be torn apart in the final chill of the universe which will make it a dead space.

Although it does seem like it is reasonable, they haven't validated anything, you have to be careful about what you say scientists have "validated" or "proved"

How does being immune to genetic death or additionally to all disease make it easier to finally face material death?

Well the answer is probably the same for most here, but for me, it is easier because when I am sure the end is coming, it is very easy to just pull the plug, I don't have to worry about my body suffering. It is just faster, and cleaner.

[struct]

How does being immune to genetic death or additionally to all disease make it easier to finally face material death?

By living longer and smarter we will be able to overcome or find solution(s) to the obstructions that prevent us for living even longer. If what you say is unavoidable, living, let say, 4 billions years should just about satisfy our thirst to live forever. I'll be happy at this point to live only 4 billions years.