54 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

Anyone want to post their bottom 10?

I don't know that I actually have 10... hmmm.

1) Bioperine
2) Synthetic versions of A and E
3) Kava (active ingredient is hepatoxic)
4) Niacinamide (inhibits SIRT1)
5) Yohimbe

Edited by health_nutty, 24 March 2007 - 06:21 PM.

[shifter]

Colloidal Silver (it can really give you 'the blues')

Edited by shifter, 23 March 2007 - 08:55 PM.

[zoolander]

any chance that you can provide references for the 5 that you have stated?

4) Niacinamide (inhibits SIRT1)?

[Athanasios]

If the potential to inhibit Sirt1 is reason to get in this list, I will add one.

*clears throat*
*cracks knucles*
*stretches neck*
*steps up to mic*

"resveratrol"

"thank you, thank you"

[health_nutty]

any chance that you can provide references for the 5 that you have stated?

4) Niacinamide (inhibits SIRT1)?

Sure:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12297502

[mitkat]

If the potential to inhibit Sirt1 is reason to get in this list, I will add one.

*clears throat*
*cracks knucles*
*stretches neck*
*steps up to mic*

"resveratrol"

"thank you, thank you"

*chuckles, tips hat*

[maxwatt]

Velvet Deer Antler

[zoolander]

If the potential to inhibit Sirt1 is reason to get in this list, I will add one.

*clears throat*
*cracks knucles*
*stretches neck*
*steps up to mic*

"resveratrol"

"thank you, thank you"

stands to feet and throws rotten tomato.

[niteinnyc]

If the potential to inhibit Sirt1 is reason to get in this list, I will add one.

*clears throat*
*cracks knucles*
*stretches neck*
*steps up to mic*

"resveratrol"

"thank you, thank you"

Well, you know the high dose Resveratrol thread has almost 20k views....

first, it was very brave of you to say that.... [tung]

second, if you believe in the notion that anything too popular probably isn't good for you, well....

[jdog]

What's wrong with Velvet Deer Antler???

[maxwatt]

What's wrong with Velvet Deer Antler???

It doesn't do anything. Only if it's fresh or freeze dried or preserved by the magic formulas of ancient Taoist monks are the growth hormones preserved that result in EXPLOSIVE muscle growth! No weight-lifter can afford to be without freeze-dried velvet deer antler, which I just happen to be selling.... How many kilos do you want?

Also, I would add mega-RDA vitamin B supplements to the "worst" list.

[health_nutty]

What's wrong with Velvet Deer Antler???

It doesn't do anything. Only if it's fresh or freeze dried or preserved by the magic formulas of ancient Taoist monks are the growth hormones preserved that result in EXPLOSIVE muscle growth! No weight-lifter can afford to be without freeze-dried velvet deer antler, which I just happen to be selling.... How many kilos do you want?

Also, I would add mega-RDA vitamin B supplements to the "worst" list.

What about benofotiamin and niacin?

Niacin can help with high cholesterol and benfotiamin is a potent AGE inhibitor.

[maxwatt]

What's wrong with Velvet Deer Antler???

It doesn't do anything. Only if it's fresh or freeze dried or preserved by the magic formulas of ancient Taoist monks are the growth hormones preserved that result in EXPLOSIVE muscle growth! No weight-lifter can afford to be without freeze-dried velvet deer antler, which I just happen to be selling.... How many kilos do you want?

Also, I would add mega-RDA vitamin B supplements to the "worst" list.

What about benofotiamin and niacin?

Niacin can help with high cholesterol and benfotiamin is a potent AGE inhibitor.

I was thinking of the B50 and B100 formulas that are so common.

[krillin]

These effects are all based on my personal experience. YMMV.

High-dose taurine (1500 mg/day) causes muscle stiffness (due to cell volumization?) and impaired adrenaline release. 500 mg/day is OK.

Panax ginseng and eleuthero impair adrenaline release but don't do anything about cortisol.

Cat's claw causes low energy and motivation.

High-dose inositol hexanicotinate (400 mg niacin) causes low energy and motivation by lowering cAMP. (Unless you're having anxiety attacks in which case it brings you back down to normal.)

Valerian has a terribly short half-life and a nasty rebound afterwards.

In addition to the anti-resveratrol effect, high-dose niacinamide (500 mg) causes anxiety, insomnia, and ear ringing from cAMP elevation.

[narcissistic]

Colloidal Silver (it can really give you 'the blues')

please do. Is it potentially harmful? I never understood what it is really.

[health_nutty]

Panax ginseng and eleuthero impair adrenaline release but don't do anything about cortisol.

What are you saying here?

[krillin]

Panax ginseng and eleuthero impair adrenaline release but don't do anything about cortisol.

What are you saying here?

When I took them (on separate occasions) they both made my running slower, which I attribute to reduced adrenaline secretion. (You can't access muscle glycogen without adrenaline.) But they did nothing to reduce the anxiety and myofascial pain from mold allergy cortisol. (I know that cortisol is to blame because 7-keto DHEA worked really well for several months.)

[brainengineer]

These effects are all based on my personal experience. YMMV.


High-dose inositol hexanicotinate (400 mg niacin) causes low energy and motivation by lowering cAMP. (Unless you're having anxiety attacks in which case it brings you back down to normal.)

Do you have a cite or reference for this??

Ive been taking this in dosages up to 2g/day to help with HDL and Ive been wiped out in terms of energy.

--
BrainEngineer

[health_nutty]

When I took them (on separate occasions) they both made my running slower, which I attribute to reduced adrenaline secretion. (You can't access muscle glycogen without adrenaline.) But they did nothing to reduce the anxiety and myofascial pain from mold allergy cortisol. (I know that cortisol is to blame because 7-keto DHEA worked really well for several months.)

Thanks.

[abelard lindsay]

I'd have to say Yohimbe is probably the worst. 8 hours worth of unpleasantness.

[EmbraceUnity]

Based on my thread here, I would probably put casein on this list. Maybe as number 10.

[aikikai]

please do. Is it potentially harmful? I never understood what it is really.

Colloidal silver is basically what happens when you take a silver wire, stick it in some water, and run electricity through it. Then you drink the water to protect yourself from Y2k and government mind control devices.

http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/2297471.stm

Take a good look at this guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria

You don't get argyria from drinking goood quality colloidal silver. I have been drinking it for long periods whitout any side effects. The reason is that colloidal silver is very small silver molecules, that get flushed out of the body with the urine, pretty fast. When a person get argyria, the person has been taking something else that is not colloidal silver. They have used some othe type of silver, where the silver molecules is too big too get flushed out of the body. Instead this big silver molecules get trapped in the body and causes argyria.

Please look for more information about colloidal silver on the Internet. I think there is a thread here already about colloidal silver.

http://www.silvermed...org/safety.html

Edited by aikikai, 25 March 2007 - 07:57 AM.

[syr_]

Cat's claw causes low energy and motivation.

Reference this. Sounds bulls*it to me. I have used pretty high doses in the past and never experienced this.

[Pablo M]

Also, I would add mega-RDA vitamin B supplements to the "worst" list.

May I ask the obvious question... why?

You don't get argyria from drinking goood quality colloidal silver. I have been drinking it for long periods whitout any side effects. The reason is that colloidal silver is very small silver molecules, that get flushed out of the body with the urine, pretty fast. When a person get argyria, the person has been taking something else that is not colloidal silver. They have used some othe type of silver, where the silver molecules is too big too get flushed out of the body. Instead this big silver molecules get trapped in the body and causes argyria.

Please look for more information about colloidal silver on the Internet. I think there is a thread here already about colloidal silver.

http://www.silvermed...org/safety.html

That's entirely false. "Good quality" colloidal silver. WTF does that mean? These newer companies that claim no one has gotten argyria from their stuff either a) have a low enough ppm concentration so as to be relatively benign or b) simpley haven't been around long enough. The experience of Rosemary Jacobs (google search for her argyria case) shows that silver can accumulate in the body.

I would add coral calcium to the Bottom 10 list. Expensive calcium carbonate that may be contaminated with heavy metals.

[krillin]

These effects are all based on my personal experience. YMMV.


High-dose inositol hexanicotinate (400 mg niacin) causes low energy and motivation by lowering cAMP. (Unless you're having anxiety attacks in which case it brings you back down to normal.)

Do you have a cite or reference for this??

Ive been taking this in dosages up to 2g/day to help with HDL and Ive been wiped out in terms of energy.

--
BrainEngineer

PMID: 12563315

"This anti-lipolytic effect of nicotinic acid involves the inhibition of cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) accumulation in adipose tissue through a G(i)-protein-mediated inhibition of adenylyl cyclase."

[krillin]

Cat's claw causes low energy and motivation.

Reference this. Sounds bulls*it to me. I have used pretty high doses in the past and never experienced this.

Just personal experience. It was the Beyond a Century powder.

One wild guess is that it increases IL-6 (In-vitro, at least. PMID: 10197746) which causes fatigue (PMID: 17165057, 15317982).

[brainengineer]

These effects are all based on my personal experience. YMMV.


High-dose inositol hexanicotinate (400 mg niacin) causes low energy and motivation by lowering cAMP. (Unless you're having anxiety attacks in which case it brings you back down to normal.)

Do you have a cite or reference for this??

Ive been taking this in dosages up to 2g/day to help with HDL and Ive been wiped out in terms of energy.

--
BrainEngineer

PMID: 12563315

"This anti-lipolytic effect of nicotinic acid involves the inhibition of cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) accumulation in adipose tissue through a G(i)-protein-mediated inhibition of adenylyl cyclase."

Well the study was referring to nicotinic acid (B3 Niacin), not inositol hexanicotinate (No Flush Niacin), but the point is still valid.

--
BrainEngineer

[maxwatt]

Also, I would add mega-RDA vitamin B supplements to the "worst" list.

May I ask the obvious question... why?

Individual requirements for B vitamins vary widely in individuals, especially those with a northern European genetic heritage. Perhaps these genetic abnormalities arose in an evolutionary "attempt" to find alternate metabolic pathways to compensate for a lack of folic acid during a long, dark winter without greens. The mega B50 or B100 formulas (50 or 100 times the RDA) may help such individuals. For others, they are at best a waste of money, and at worst can be damaging. If I take more than 2 or three times the RDA of B1 and B2, I get manically depressed. LEF's life extension mix leaves me almost psychotic after a few weeks of use.

Megadose of Niacinamide inhibit SIRT1, niacin while useful to control blood lipids has undesireable effects on energy levels and perhaps on lifespan, and probably shouldn't be used by healthy individuals.

In short, it's a one-size solution that isn't suitable for most people, even those without the time to determine what works for them. In a sort of Gresham's law for supplements, the prevelance of Mega-B multi's makes it hard to find a good quality B supplement with a more moderate dosage. (Centrum won't do.)

[ora101]

D2

[Shepard]

My mind went to more along the lines of "usnic acid" or some of the more nasty dopamine agonists and not some of what you guys are putting up. It's a stretch to call most of these "dangerous".