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Niacinamide/ Nicotinamide (the anti-resveratrol)


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#1 edward

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 10:47 AM


I have been on a quest to eliminate Niacinamide/ Nicotinamide from my diet as studies show it to inhibit SIRT. Exactly the opposite of what one is trying to do by supplementing Resveratrol. Here are the studies if you have missed them.
Niacinamide/ Nicotinamide SIRT
Anyways, if you take a look at your breakfast cereal, chances are it has between 25% to 50% of the USRDA of Niacin as Niacinamide (most every cereal at your local supermarket with the exception of Kashi and some other organics are fortified with Niacinamide). This is enough Niacinamide for me to swear off all mainstream breakfast cereals until they get their act together. Check out sports drinks and other misc. products.... if its got niacin in it then its probably Niacinamide (check the fine print of the ingredients).

If anyone comes across any other chemicals that inhibit SIRT (other anti-resveratrols) feel free to post the links to the research here as well.
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#2 edward

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 10:51 AM

Again according to the studies in the link above. Vitamin B3 as standard nicotinic acid is perfectly fine and does not inhibit SIRT, it is only in the Niacinamide/ Nicotinamide form that has become popular as a cheap flush free Niacin.
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#3 Shepard

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 02:44 PM

Eating breakfast cereals and sports drinks....worrying about inhbiting sirtuin genes....

Why do I find that funny? I bet someone knows.

#4 health_nutty

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 04:32 PM

Eating breakfast cereals and sports drinks....worrying about inhbiting sirtuin genes....

Why do I find that funny? I bet someone knows.


Oh oh oh, me me me ;)

#5 lucid

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 08:15 PM

If my niacin isn't non-flush, then am I ok? Flush Niacin = Nicatonic Acid?

#6 luv2increase

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 08:17 PM

If my niacin isn't non-flush, then am I ok? Flush Niacin = Nicatonic Acid?



The niacin which produces niacin flushes is called nicotinic acid.

#7 lucid

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 08:24 PM

Thanks.

#8 edward

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 05:16 PM

Eating breakfast cereals and sports drinks....worrying about inhbiting sirtuin genes....

Why do I find that funny? I bet someone knows.



Lol, yes I find it a bit funny and anal too, but seriously though, why would you want to inadvertently sabotage expensive and precise resveratrol supplementation with something as easily eliminated as Corn Flakes and Tang.

#9 health_nutty

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 05:21 PM

The point is, if you are eating corn flakes and tang you have bigger things to worry about than SIRT1 inhibition.

Edited by health_nutty, 29 March 2007 - 06:35 PM.


#10 edward

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 05:31 PM

Yeah yeah, I wasnt being literal about the Corn Flakes and Tang thing. The so called healthy cereals out there are fortified with niacinamide. Every cereal at your local Grocery store (Kroger for instance here in Georgia). Most premium sports drinks/post workout drinks from GNC or whatever online source just happen to use niacinamide as their source of niacin (probably because its cheap or something).

#11 niner

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 03:10 AM

The point is, if you are eating corn flakes and tang you have bigger things to worry about than SIRT1 inhibition.

I don't know about that.. It seems to me that a person could eat corn flakes and still have a pretty good diet. Tang's not exactly my cup o' synthetic weirdness, but corn flakes aren't toxic. And if a person did eat corn flakes, they would still be better off with their sirtuins appropriately jacked up.

#12 neogenic

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 01:17 PM

http://www.vrp.com/a...T...id=&zTYPE=2
This article states that Niacinamide has life extension abilities.

And there's studies related to niacinamide's use for skin care, like this:

J Cosmet Dermatol. 2007 Dec;6(4):243-9.Links
The clinical anti-aging effects of topical kinetin and niacinamide in Asians: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, split-face comparative trial.Chiu PC, Chan CC, Lin HM, Chiu HC.
Department of Dermatology, National Taiwan University Hospital and National Taiwan University College of Medicine, Taipei, Taiwan. pinchichiu@ntu.edu.tw

BACKGROUND: Kinetin and niacinamide are used in the cosmetic industry as anti-aging agents. Neither the interactive/additive effects of these compounds nor the anti-aging efficacy on Asian skin has been studied. Objective To assess the clinical anti-aging effects and efficacy differences between kinetin plus niacinamide and niacinamide alone vs. vehicle placebo in an Asian cohort. METHODS: Fifty-two Taiwanese subjects were enrolled in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, split-face comparative study. Group 1 subjects were treated with kinetin 0.03% plus niacinamide 4%, whereas group 2 subjects received niacinamide 4%. The treatment formulation was applied on one side of the face, whereas a placebo was applied on the other for a period of 12 weeks. We used noninvasive biometrological instruments to evaluate a variety of skin parameters at baseline and at weeks 4, 8, and 12. RESULTS: Persistent and significant reductions in spot, pore, wrinkle, and evenness counts were found at weeks 8 and 12 in group 1. A significant increase in corneal hydration status was also evident at week 12, whereas persistent decreases in erythema index were apparent at 8 and 12 weeks. In group 2, significant reductions in pore and evenness counts at week 8 and wrinkle counts at week 12 were noted. CONCLUSION: We found kinetin and niacinamide exert a synergistic anti-aging effect. Our data suggest that these compounds have multiactive, multifunctional, and pluripotent effects on skin. They are also both promising to be included in the cutaneous anti-aging cosmeceuticals in the future.


What I am wondering, despite the negatives I keep reading is niacinamide, especially when taken with NAD+ pre-workout an issue with life-extension. I've been using 1000mg Niacinamide and 50mg NAD+ and I like it. I would assume most of the niacinamide, given the timing would be a used in this krebs cycle pathway. Again, I've found this to be pretty good and would like to continue it. Would adding resveratrol or pomegranate protect any downsides? Are these fears even justified at this dose? Diabetics take 1.75-3.5g a day. I am merely using it to push the NAD pathway. Curious to hear your thoughts.

#13 niner

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 01:44 AM

What I am wondering, despite the negatives I keep reading is niacinamide, especially when taken with NAD+ pre-workout an issue with life-extension. I've been using 1000mg Niacinamide and 50mg NAD+ and I like it. I would assume most of the niacinamide, given the timing would be a used in this krebs cycle pathway. Again, I've found this to be pretty good and would like to continue it. Would adding resveratrol or pomegranate protect any downsides? Are these fears even justified at this dose? Diabetics take 1.75-3.5g a day. I am merely using it to push the NAD pathway. Curious to hear your thoughts.

I wouldn't call a cosmetic effect "life extension", even if it does make you look a little younger, and it's a topical application at that. 1000mg is a lot of niacinamide. What is the positive effect of this that you like, anyway? In other words, why are you taking it?

#14 neogenic

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 02:16 PM

What I am wondering, despite the negatives I keep reading is niacinamide, especially when taken with NAD+ pre-workout an issue with life-extension. I've been using 1000mg Niacinamide and 50mg NAD+ and I like it. I would assume most of the niacinamide, given the timing would be a used in this krebs cycle pathway. Again, I've found this to be pretty good and would like to continue it. Would adding resveratrol or pomegranate protect any downsides? Are these fears even justified at this dose? Diabetics take 1.75-3.5g a day. I am merely using it to push the NAD pathway. Curious to hear your thoughts.

I wouldn't call a cosmetic effect "life extension", even if it does make you look a little younger, and it's a topical application at that. 1000mg is a lot of niacinamide. What is the positive effect of this that you like, anyway? In other words, why are you taking it?

regarding the cosmetic link, it was merely a secondary point, but doesn't need to be discarded quite that easily. Many skin serums are the same things were using for supplements and have powerful antioxidant or nutritive effects.

The main point was the article link that I listed, made all the same points in this thread and interpreted as life-extension promoting, hence the interest by me. Further, it has been stated here that increasing the NAD+/NADH ratio is promoting longevity as well.

Why am I taking it? NAD+ has numerous benefits as far as cellular energy via the TCA, and nitric oxide promotion both of which I've found to be ergogenic to my workouts. Niacinamide clearly has a benefit of creating more NAD+ and preventing any alternate pathways...so I was using it for the synergy of NAD+ now and NAD+ later, so to speak. I am very happy with the results (along with some other nutrients/compounds), but I do want to hear some more thoughts on NAD/niacinamide being life-extending or shortening. Granted, I am not too worried as its certered around a workout and ramping up the metabolic processes is the point...doing this all day, every day obviously would be naother story.

#15 krillin

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 04:28 AM

The main point was the article link that I listed, made all the same points in this thread and interpreted as life-extension promoting, hence the interest by me. Further, it has been stated here that increasing the NAD+/NADH ratio is promoting longevity as well.

Why am I taking it? NAD+ has numerous benefits as far as cellular energy via the TCA, and nitric oxide promotion both of which I've found to be ergogenic to my workouts. Niacinamide clearly has a benefit of creating more NAD+ and preventing any alternate pathways...so I was using it for the synergy of NAD+ now and NAD+ later, so to speak. I am very happy with the results (along with some other nutrients/compounds), but I do want to hear some more thoughts on NAD/niacinamide being life-extending or shortening. Granted, I am not too worried as its certered around a workout and ramping up the metabolic processes is the point...doing this all day, every day obviously would be naother story.


How do you know the energy isn't coming from niacinamide's effect on cAMP? You could just take caffeine and not get the SIRT1 inhibition.

The VRP article is shoddy work. It states without reference that "Niacinamide converts twice as readily to NAD/NADP as does niacin." But PubMed says

J Biol Chem. 2007 Aug 24;282(34):24574-82.
Elevation of cellular NAD levels by nicotinic acid and involvement of nicotinic acid phosphoribosyltransferase in human cells.
Hara N, Yamada K, Shibata T, Osago H, Hashimoto T, Tsuchiya M.
Department of Biochemistry, Shimane University Faculty of Medicine, 89-1, Izumo, Shimane 693-8501, Japan. nhara@shimane-u.ac.jp

NAD plays critical roles in various biological processes through the function of SIRT1. Although classical studies in mammals showed that nicotinic acid (NA) is a better precursor than nicotinamide (Nam) in elevating tissue NAD levels, molecular details of NAD synthesis from NA remain largely unknown. We here identified NA phosphoribosyltransferase (NAPRT) in humans and provided direct evidence of tight link between NAPRT and the increase in cellular NAD levels. The enzyme was abundantly expressed in the small intestine, liver, and kidney in mice and mediated [(14)C]NAD synthesis from [(14)C]NA in human cells. In cells expressing endogenous NAPRT, the addition of NA but not Nam almost doubled cellular NAD contents and decreased cytotoxicity by H(2)O(2). Both effects were reversed by knockdown of NAPRT expression. These results indicate that NAPRT is essential for NA to increase cellular NAD levels and, thus, to prevent oxidative stress of the cells. Kinetic analyses revealed that NAPRT, but not Nam phosphoribosyltransferase (NamPRT, also known as pre-B-cell colony-enhancing factor or visfatin), is insensitive to the physiological concentration of NAD. Together, we conclude that NA elevates cellular NAD levels through NAPRT function and, thus, protects the cells against stress, partly due to lack of feedback inhibition of NAPRT but not NamPRT by NAD. The ability of NA to increase cellular NAD contents may account for some of the clinically observed effects of the vitamin and further implies a novel application of the vitamin to treat diseases such as those associated with the depletion of cellular NAD pools.

PMID: 17604275

#16 neogenic

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 02:30 PM

The main point was the article link that I listed, made all the same points in this thread and interpreted as life-extension promoting, hence the interest by me. Further, it has been stated here that increasing the NAD+/NADH ratio is promoting longevity as well.

Why am I taking it? NAD+ has numerous benefits as far as cellular energy via the TCA, and nitric oxide promotion both of which I've found to be ergogenic to my workouts. Niacinamide clearly has a benefit of creating more NAD+ and preventing any alternate pathways...so I was using it for the synergy of NAD+ now and NAD+ later, so to speak. I am very happy with the results (along with some other nutrients/compounds), but I do want to hear some more thoughts on NAD/niacinamide being life-extending or shortening. Granted, I am not too worried as its certered around a workout and ramping up the metabolic processes is the point...doing this all day, every day obviously would be naother story.


How do you know the energy isn't coming from niacinamide's effect on cAMP? You could just take caffeine and not get the SIRT1 inhibition.

The VRP article is shoddy work. It states without reference that "Niacinamide converts twice as readily to NAD/NADP as does niacin." But PubMed says

J Biol Chem. 2007 Aug 24;282(34):24574-82.
Elevation of cellular NAD levels by nicotinic acid and involvement of nicotinic acid phosphoribosyltransferase in human cells.
Hara N, Yamada K, Shibata T, Osago H, Hashimoto T, Tsuchiya M.
Department of Biochemistry, Shimane University Faculty of Medicine, 89-1, Izumo, Shimane 693-8501, Japan. nhara@shimane-u.ac.jp

NAD plays critical roles in various biological processes through the function of SIRT1. Although classical studies in mammals showed that nicotinic acid (NA) is a better precursor than nicotinamide (Nam) in elevating tissue NAD levels, molecular details of NAD synthesis from NA remain largely unknown. We here identified NA phosphoribosyltransferase (NAPRT) in humans and provided direct evidence of tight link between NAPRT and the increase in cellular NAD levels. The enzyme was abundantly expressed in the small intestine, liver, and kidney in mice and mediated [(14)C]NAD synthesis from [(14)C]NA in human cells. In cells expressing endogenous NAPRT, the addition of NA but not Nam almost doubled cellular NAD contents and decreased cytotoxicity by H(2)O(2). Both effects were reversed by knockdown of NAPRT expression. These results indicate that NAPRT is essential for NA to increase cellular NAD levels and, thus, to prevent oxidative stress of the cells. Kinetic analyses revealed that NAPRT, but not Nam phosphoribosyltransferase (NamPRT, also known as pre-B-cell colony-enhancing factor or visfatin), is insensitive to the physiological concentration of NAD. Together, we conclude that NA elevates cellular NAD levels through NAPRT function and, thus, protects the cells against stress, partly due to lack of feedback inhibition of NAPRT but not NamPRT by NAD. The ability of NA to increase cellular NAD contents may account for some of the clinically observed effects of the vitamin and further implies a novel application of the vitamin to treat diseases such as those associated with the depletion of cellular NAD pools.

PMID: 17604275


That was an awesome study. I had not come upon that one in my research. Thank you so much. What do you think of Nicotinic Acid then? Or Xanthinol Nicotinate? Are they anti-aging or age-inducing? I am still struggling with this as everywhere I read I read conflicting information often off of the same studies. I will drop niacinamide as it seemed more than obvious it would promote more NAD+, of which this study refutes with regards to nicotinic acid.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this.

#17 krillin

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:04 PM

That was an awesome study. I had not come upon that one in my research. Thank you so much. What do you think of Nicotinic Acid then? Or Xanthinol Nicotinate? Are they anti-aging or age-inducing? I am still struggling with this as everywhere I read I read conflicting information often off of the same studies. I will drop niacinamide as it seemed more than obvious it would promote more NAD+, of which this study refutes with regards to nicotinic acid.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this.


Nicotinic acid hurts too much (like my entire scalp has a bad sunburn) for me to consider it so I use inositol hexanicotinate instead. I can only guess at a proper dose and settled on 250 mg niacin equivalent twice per week. It'd be nice if it came in smaller doses or in divisible tablets so I could take it daily. In my current state, taking 250 mg/day would crash my energy level, since unlike niacinamide, niacin lowers cAMP.

#18 eric29

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 08:58 PM

http://www.vrp.com/a...T...id=&zTYPE=2
I've been using 1000mg Niacinamide and 50mg NAD+ and I like it. I would assume most of the niacinamide, given the timing would be a used in this krebs cycle pathway. Again, I've found this to be pretty good and would like to continue it... I am merely using it to push the NAD pathway.


My understanding is that niacinamide is directly incorparated into NAD which acts as an enzyme in both glycolysis and the krebs cycle, so it will be actively recycled and will not be "used" like glucose or pyruvate is "used" in the cycle, if that was what you were thinking. A dose of 1000mg is huge and will probably be on board for quite a while.

If you are concerned about inhibition of SIRT, a recent article (PMID: 17725178) lists a plasma half life of 4.3 hours for niacinamide, but I am not sure how relevant a plasma half life would be as far as inhibition of SIRT goes. Certainly a lot of niacinamide would be taken up in various tissue compartments where it would increase intracellular levels and affect SIRT for who knows how long.

The same article deals with the conversion of oral niacin to niacinamide and other metabolites, so I don't think switching to niacin will avoid all of these concerns.

Here is the abstract:

Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2007 Aug;45(8):448-54.
Plasma and urine pharmacokinetics of niacin and its metabolites from an extended-release niacin formulation.
Menon RM, Adams MH, González MA, Tolbert DS, Leu JH, Cefali EA.


OBJECTIVE: To characterize plasma and urine pharmacokinetics of niacin and its metabolites after oral administration of 2,000 mg of extended-release (ER) niacin in healthy male volunteers. METHODS: Niacin ER was administered to 12 healthy male subjects following a low-fat snack. Plasma was collected for 12 h post dose and was analyzed for niacin, nicotinuric acid (NUA), nicotinamide (NAM) and nicotinamide-N-oxide (NNO). Urine was collected for 96 h post dose and analyzed for niacin and its metabolites, NUA, NAM, NNO, N-methylnicotinamide (MNA) and N-methyl-2-pyridone-5-carboxamide (2PY). RESULTS: Mean niacin Cmax and AUC(0-t) values were 9.3 microg/ml and 26.2 microg x h/ml and were the highest of all analytes measured. Peak niacin and NUA levels occurred at 4.6 h (median) while tmax for NAM and NNO were 8.6 and 11.1 h, respectively. The mean plasma terminal half-life for niacin (0.9 h) and NUA (1.3 h) was shorter as compared to NAM (4.3 h). Urine recovery of niacin and metabolites accounted for 69.5% of the administered dose; only 3.2% was excreted as niacin. The highest recovery was for 2PY (37.9%), followed by MNA (16.0%) and NUA (11.6%). Mean half-lives for 2PY and MNA calculated in urine were 12.6 and 12.8 h, respectively. CONCLUSIONS: Niacin was extensively metabolized following oral administration, and about 70% of the administered dose is recovered in urine in 96 h as niacin, NUA, MNA, NNO, NAM and 2PY. The plasma levels of the parent niacin were higher than its metabolites though only about 3% of the unchanged drug is recovered in urine.

PMID: 17725178

#19 ajnast4r

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 11:46 PM

Eating breakfast cereals and sports drinks....worrying about inhbiting sirtuin genes....

Why do I find that funny? I bet someone knows.



so much win, so little thread

#20 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 06 September 2008 - 11:36 AM

Niacinamide is bad for sure?

I noticed a lot of people on here avoid this like the plague. Why is it bad, and is the jury still out on this?

(edited by Matthias: threads 24164 & 15241 merged)

Edited by Matthias, 06 September 2008 - 12:03 PM.


#21 Dmitri

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 04:42 AM

Yeah yeah, I wasnt being literal about the Corn Flakes and Tang thing. The so called healthy cereals out there are fortified with niacinamide. Every cereal at your local Grocery store (Kroger for instance here in Georgia). Most premium sports drinks/post workout drinks from GNC or whatever online source just happen to use niacinamide as their source of niacin (probably because its cheap or something).


Even LEF multi mix has 53% Niacinamide for their B3.

#22 stevenreno

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 06:39 AM

I have been on a quest to eliminate Niacinamide/ Nicotinamide from my diet as studies show it to inhibit SIRT. Exactly the opposite of what one is trying to do by supplementing Resveratrol. Here are the studies if you have missed them.
Niacinamide/ Nicotinamide SIRT
Anyways, if you take a look at your breakfast cereal, chances are it has between 25% to 50% of the USRDA of Niacin as Niacinamide (most every cereal at your local supermarket with the exception of Kashi and some other organics are fortified with Niacinamide). This is enough Niacinamide for me to swear off all mainstream breakfast cereals until they get their act together. Check out sports drinks and other misc. products.... if its got niacin in it then its probably Niacinamide (check the fine print of the ingredients).

If anyone comes across any other chemicals that inhibit SIRT (other anti-resveratrols) feel free to post the links to the research here as well.


Niacinamide is a component of two related coenzymes—nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADP). The principle function of these enzymes is to facilitate oxidation and reducing reactions in the form of dehydrogenases. Silent information regulator 2 (Sir2) proteins, or sirtuins, are protein deacetylases dependent on nicotine adenine dinucleotide (NAD) (NAM)Niacinmide is co-enzyme needed for NAD+ synthesis and NAD+ is needed for Sir2 activation
I now used Niacinamide with Nicotinamide Riboside Kinase and tryptophan for Sir2 activation and the results will blow your mind--so dont worry about niacin

#23 stephen_b

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:09 PM

stevenreno, what sort of results are you seeing? I've been taking 200 mg of niacinamide, and it's helped quite a lot with slight OCD tendencies like chewing on my lip (and it helps some with mild social anxiety too).

#24 timhill88@outlook.com

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 03:32 PM

Hi Does

 

Niacinamide increase Histamine becuase I have anxiety and panic attack disorder when I have Niacinamide I get more anxiety

 



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#25 gamesguru

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 04:54 PM

According to Dave Sinclair, it remains to show whether the in vivo NAD+ activation of sirt1 dominates or is dominated by NAC inhibition of sirt1.

NAC, of course, increases the intracellular NAD+/NADH ratio.

And it occurs in such trace amounts in a normal diet, and in such a wide variety of foods, I think avoiding it to be unnecessary and difficult.

 

 

A High-Fat Diet and NAD+ Activate Sirt1 to Rescue Premature Aging in Cockayne Syndrome

http://www.cell.com/...4131(14)00452-5

 

The NAD+-dependent protein deacetylase activity of SIRT1 is regulated by its oligomeric status

http://www.nature.co.../srep00640.html

 

Broad neuroprotective profile of nicotinamide

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18702732

 

Nicotinamide treatment provides acute neuroprotection and GFAP regulation

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18260797


Edited by gamesguru, 09 August 2015 - 04:55 PM.





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