42 replies to this topic

[maestro949]

It seems that every day something new comes out about Green Tea. The latest news is that it might fight HIV.

Here's a good list of The 15 Benefits of Green Tea. Lots of good research to back these up too. #2 on the list is "Prolong Life." [thumb]

[zoolander]

So Jim do you drink it or supplement. Perhaps both.

If you drink it, what sort do you drink? How do you brew it? I know that there are different ways to brew the different teas. Some brew the tea for taste and some for health benefits.

If you supplement, which brand and how much do you take?

Finally, why do we have hairs up our nose? Sorry....Uncle Buck reference.

[maestro949]

So Jim do you drink it or supplement. Perhaps both.

both. 5-8 cups / day.

If you drink it, what sort do you drink?

Alvita. Orange or Tangerine Flavored. I'm on the lookout for a good flavored organic though....

How do you brew it? I know that there are different ways to brew the different teas. Some brew the tea for taste and some for health benefits.

I'll either microwave the water @ home or use filtered hot water from a tank at work.

If you supplement, which brand and how much do you take?

Jarrow, 500mg/day

Finally, why do we have hairs up our nose? Sorry....Uncle Buck reference.

I will not ask...

[wayside]

If you supplement, which brand and how much do you take?

Now Foods EGCg Green Tea Extract 400 mg, 2 per day http://www.iherb.com...s&pid=NOW-04704

Finally, why do we have hairs up our nose? Sorry....Uncle Buck reference.

"Why I've been known to circumcise a gnat. You're not a gnat are you Bug?"

[health_nutty]

That's a good list. I've read about those in separate articles, but I haven't seen the all in one article. Very nice.

[thenaturalstep]

VERY IMPORTANT INFO FOR YOU GUYS:
GREEN TEA DON'T HAVE ANY HEALT EFFECT IF YOU MIX IT WITH MILK!

[JohnDoe1234]

VERY IMPORTANT INFO FOR YOU GUYS:
GREEN TEA DON'T HAVE ANY HEALT EFFECT IF YOU MIX IT WITH MILK!

Sir, do you know why I pulled you over? You were driving with your capslock on, you know that is dangerous right? Well, you know now... have a nice day.

btw, thenaturalstep could you explain that a little more?

[health_nutty]

* Lorenz M,
* Jochmann N,
* von Krosigk A,
* Martus P,
* Baumann G,
* Stangl K,
* Stangl V.

Medizinische Klinik mit Schwerpunkt Kardiologie und Angiologie, Charite-Universitatsmedizin Berlin, CCM, Chariteplatz 1, D-10117 Berlin, Germany.

AIMS: Experimental and clinical studies indicate that tea exerts protection against cardiovascular diseases. However, a question of much debate is whether addition of milk modifies the biological activities of tea. We studied the vascular effects of tea, with or without milk, in humans and elucidated the impact of individual milk proteins in cell culture experiments, with isolated rat aortic rings and by HPLC analysis. METHODS AND RESULTS: A total of 16 healthy female volunteers consumed either 500 mL of freshly brewed black tea, black tea with 10% skimmed milk, or boiled water as control. Flow-mediated dilation (FMD) was measured by high-resolution vascular ultrasound before and 2 h after consumption. Black tea significantly improved FMD in humans compared with water, whereas addition of milk completely blunted the effects of tea. To support these findings, similar experiments were performed in isolated rat aortic rings and endothelial cells. Tea induced vasorelaxation in rat aortic rings and increased the activity of endothelial nitric oxide synthase by phosphorylation of the enzyme in endothelial cells. All effects were completely inhibited by the addition of milk to tea. Of the various kinds of milk proteins, the caseins accounted for these inhibiting effects of milk, probably by formation of complexes with tea catechins.

CONCLUSION: Milk counteracts the favourable health effects of tea on vascular function. This finding indicates the need for particular awareness in the interpretation and design of studies comprising nutritional flavonoids.

[luv2increase]

Good thing I don't drink milk.

[simianjones]

Dont blame milk for your ills... Unless you are allergic to the stuff, it is the most complex liquid on earth and is a wonderful source of vitamins/minerals/enzymes...

Personally I think that comparing milk with water in that study is a faulty concept. Milk is a solid where as water is a directly absorbed fluid. I would like to see the comparison of normal fatty foods (ie. slow absorption potential) versus milk. I suspect you probably would see the same result. Meaning it is not that Milk somehow "blocks" the flavonoids, but dramatically reduces their absorption time.

By the way, what is with the "10%" skim milk? If it is skim milk, then what the hell is the 10%?

Basically what I am getting at is that Green Tea, as with most flavonoid substances, seem to perform well at high dosages. Unless you are into drinking 5 to 7 glasses of tea all day and keeping your kidneys busy, you probably should go with a good quality extract...

[simianjones]

Also, on that note, I have read thousands of studies and even written several, but have never seen this type of statement:

"Of the various kinds of milk proteins, the caseins accounted for these inhibiting effects of milk, probably by formation of complexes with tea catechins."

This is a subjective statement.. It does not appear to be factual statement. Health_nut, do you have the Medline ID or submittal number for this study?

[health_nutty]

Also, on that note, I have read thousands of studies and even written several, but have never seen this type of statement:

"Of the various kinds of milk proteins, the caseins accounted for these inhibiting effects of milk, probably by formation of complexes with tea catechins."

This is a subjective statement.. It does not appear to be factual statement.  Health_nut, do you have the Medline ID or submittal number for this study?

http://eurheartj.oxf...stract/ehl442v1

[health_nutty]

Dont blame milk for your ills... Unless you are allergic to the stuff, it is the most complex liquid on earth and is a wonderful source of vitamins/minerals/enzymes...

Personally I think that comparing milk with water in that study is a faulty concept.  Milk is a solid where as water is a directly absorbed fluid.  I would like to see the comparison of normal fatty foods (ie. slow absorption potential) versus milk.  I suspect you probably would see the same result.  Meaning it is not that Milk somehow "blocks" the flavonoids, but dramatically reduces their absorption time. 

By the way, what is with the "10%" skim milk?  If it is skim milk, then what the hell is the 10%?

Basically what I am getting at is that Green Tea, as with most flavonoid substances, seem to perform well at high dosages.  Unless you are into drinking 5 to 7 glasses of tea all day and keeping your kidneys busy, you probably should go with a good quality extract...

I take it to mean 10% of the liquid is skim milk (the other 90% being water).

I wonder if the milk was added after brewing or before?

[garlicknots]

I take 2 of AOR's EGCG Max/ day

SUPPLEMENT FACTS:
Serving Size: 1 Capsule %DRI
Green Tea (Camellia sinesis) Extract 700 mg *
Total catechins 560 mg *
Epigallocatechin gallate (EgCG)315 mg *
Epicatechin gallate (ECg) 75 mg *
Epigallocatechin (EGC) 30 mg *
Epichtechin (EC) 35 mg *
Caffeine 7 mg *

I drink about 3-4 cups per day on average. I brew whole leaf white tea for taste (170-175 deg @ 3 mins).

I believe if you brew it at a higher temp/longer you'll derive more health benefits since more tannins are released which I believe have something to do with the catechin content. Unfortunately tannins make the tea more bitter.

edit: I often eat the whole leaves after I've steeped them 2-3 times. Does anyone know if this is healthy or advisable?

Edited by garlicknots, 06 April 2007 - 10:40 PM.

[health_nutty]

edit: I often eat the whole leaves after I've steeped them 2-3 times. Does anyone know if this is healthy or advisable?

It should be good for getting the full benefit from the leaves. Many posters here drink powdered green tea (where you consume the powdered leaf).

Edit: replace my combinatin of fine and good (food) with good

Edited by health_nutty, 08 April 2007 - 06:48 PM.

[garlicknots]

It should be food for getting the full benefit from the leaves.  Many posters here drink powdered green tea (where you consume the powdered leaf).

Interesting. Here are some thoughts.

As you read the following, please recognize that I first drink tea for taste and second for its health benefits.

The answer is simple: flavor. But why? First of all, to get the full amount of flavor from tea leaves, they must have room to expand fully. In the case of oolong teas, the difference between the tightly rolled dry leaves and the unfurled steeped leaves is quite dramatic. If they are unable to unfurl, some of the flavor stays trapped within the leaves. Ideally, the leaves should be able to swirl freely in the water in which they are steeping to get the full flavor.

The second reason is because of the size of the leaf. The smaller the leaf, the more quickly bitter tannins are released, and the more quickly tea becomes bitter. Most loose leaf tea is whole leaf, while tea bags are filled with fannings, or tea dust from the bottoms of crates and barrels of teas. Basically, the cast off bits of tea.

Teabags also tend to go stale more quickly. Tea can stay fresh for up to two years, if properly stored in an airtight container and kept in a cool, dark place, like a cabinet. Teabags are frequently improperly packaged for freshness. Celestial Seasonings, for example, has the teabags loose in its paper boxes, so no freshness is preserved at all.

http://theteascoop.t...d_tea_vs_l.html

The main difference between loose teas and bagged teas is the size of the leaves. That's what effects the resulting cup of tea. Tea leaves contain chemicals and essential oils, which are the basis for the delightful flavour of tea. When the tea leaves are broken up, those oils can evaporate, leaving a dull and tasteless tea. Typical tea bags are filled with the tiniest pieces of broken leaves, called fannings.

http://coffeetea.abo.../looseorbag.htm

And as I implied before, tannins do seem to have a positive relationship with catechins and flavonoids.

Tea

The tea plant (Camellia sinensis) is an example of a plant said to have a naturally high tannin content. When any type of tea leaf is steeped in hot water it brews a "tart" (astringent) flavor that is characteristic of tannins. This is due to the catechins and other flavonoids. Tea "tannins" are chemically distinct from other types of plant tannins such as tannic acid[2] and tea extracts have been reported to contain no tannin[3].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin

I don't understand citation [3]. From what I understand catechins and flavonoids are a subgroup of tannins; what do they mean by no tannin? The abstract of that study has no information.

Anyway here's what I can guage:

Differences between whole vs. powdered:

a) room to unfurl for whole leaves - probably no effect on health
b) whole leaves usually fresher (if you get it from the right supplier) - possible health benefit for whole?
c) whole leaves have additional essential oils - possible health benefits for whole?
d) fannings release more tannins - definite health benefits for powdered tea?

Like I said, interesting. I wonder if the possible health benefits of whole (freshness in particular) outweigh the definite health benefit of increased tannins-- It's too bad the tannins make the tea so bitter.

I guess I'll definitely eat the leaves, maybe I can sneak some of the tannins in that way?


f/R

[thenaturalstep]

VERY IMPORTANT INFO FOR YOU GUYS:
GREEN TEA DON'T HAVE ANY HEALT EFFECT IF YOU MIX IT WITH MILK!

Sir, do you know why I pulled you over? You were driving with your capslock on, you know that is dangerous right? Well, you know now... have a nice day.

btw, thenaturalstep could you explain that a little more?

They found it strange that Englishmen didn't revive any health benefits even that they were drinking allot of tea. So they did some studies in the area, sadly I didn’t find any easy sources, couldn’t figure out a good “search word for Google”. But I found something from Google scholar.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....8&dopt=Citation

Vitro antioxidant activity of green and black tea:
The inhibition of this effect by milk is thought to be due to the complexation of tea polyphenols by milk proteins.

[wydell]

Also, on that note, I have read thousands of studies and even written several, but have never seen this type of statement:

"Of the various kinds of milk proteins, the caseins accounted for these inhibiting effects of milk, probably by formation of complexes with tea catechins."

This is a subjective statement.. It does not appear to be factual statement.  Health_nut, do you have the Medline ID or submittal number for this study?

I have seen references to milk inhibiting the beneficial effect of polyphenols in tea and cocoa. I googled one for you

Milk wrecks the health benefits of tea
00:01 09 January 2007
NewScientist.com news service
Debora MacKenzie


http://www.newscient...line-news_rss20

[Matt]

Mixing EGCG Max capsules into my yogurt is a bad idea then?

I can't swallow these capsules... hmmm. Emptying the contents of the capsule is only just about bearable when put into a cup of green tea and mixed =/ Maybe I can mix it with Manuka honey or something.

Edited by Matt, 08 April 2007 - 08:40 PM.

[garlicknots]

Some more studies, all found on pub med using search terms "milk", "tea", "casein."

Interaction of the tea polyphenol epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) with beta-casein in milk affects the taste of tea and also affects the stability of the tea and the antioxidant ability of the EGCG. In addition, interaction of polyphenols with the chemically similar salivary proline-rich proteins is largely responsible for the astringency of tea and red wine. With the use of single molecule force microscopy, we demonstrate that the interaction of EGCG with a single casein molecule is multivalent and leads to reduction in the persistence length of casein as calculated using the wormlike chain model and a reduction in its radius of gyration. The extra force required to stretch casein in the presence of EGCG is largely entropic, suggesting that multivalent hydrophobic interactions cause a compaction of the casein micelle.

PMID: 16756328 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

* Jobstl E, * Howse JR, * Fairclough JP, * Williamson MP.

Department of Molecular Biology and Biotechnology, University of Sheffield, Western Bank, Sheffield S10 2TN, United Kingdom.

and

Flavonoids are potent antioxidants. It is also known that flavonoids bind to proteins. The effect of the interaction between tea flavonoids and proteins on the antioxidant capacity was examined. Their separate and combined antioxidant capacities were measured with the Trolox equivalent antioxidant capacity (TEAC) assay. It was observed that the antioxidant capacity of several components of green and black tea with alpha-, beta-, and kappa-casein or albumin is not additive; that is, a part of the total antioxidant capacity is masked by the interaction. This masking depends on both the protein and the flavonoid used. Components in green and black tea, which show the highest masking in combination with beta-casein, are epigallocatechin gallate and gallic acid. The results demonstrate that the matrix influences the efficacy of an antioxidant.

* Arts MJ, * Haenen GR, * Wilms LC,* Beetstra SA,* Heijnen CG,* Voss HP,* Bast A.

Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Faculty of Medicine, Maastricht University, P.O. Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. Mariken.Arts@farmaco.unimaas.nl

That's pretty conclusive if the results are true.

There is also a paper from 1963 on pub med titled:

AN INVESTIGATION OF THE INTERACTIONS BETWEEN MILK PROTEINS AND TEA POLYPHENOLS.

    * BROWN PJ,
    * WRIGHT WB.

PMID: 14062610

There is no abstract for that study. However, the title is rather relevant. Can anyone fish it out?

f/R

[Mind]

Another link to the 15 benefits of green tea. (the original one posted has gone dead)

Related to #7 on the list - tea increases insulin activity.

One way to keep insulin working properly is drinking tea. According to an in vitro study by Anderson & Polansky, black, green and oolong teas resulted in more than 15-fold increases in insulin activity.

As the strength of the tea increased, so did the insulin-enhancing activity, up to a point; the highest amount of tea leaves shows more activity than the lowest amount but less activity than the middle amounts.

The authors note that the most active components were epigallocatechin gallate (EGCg), followed by tannins, epicatechin gallate and theaflavins. EGCg was more than three times as effective as tannins and epicatechin gallate. Caffeine and catechin showed no activity.

When milk was added to the tea, insulin potentiation was decreased. One teaspoon (5 grams) of milk decreased activity by 33%, while 50 grams of milk decreased the activity by more than 90%. Both whole milk and skimmed milk had the same negative effect, as did nondairy creamers and soy milk. Lemon juice, on the other hand, had no effect.

[Dmitri]

I use Lipton's tea bags, are these any good? I use the variety flavored pack:

Flavonoid content (per cup):

-Orange, Passionfruit & Jasmine: 60 mg
-Lemon Ginseng: 120 mg
-Honey: 55 mg
-Mint: 75 mg
-Mixed Berry: 75 mg
-100% Green Tea: 190 mg

Edited by Dmitri, 27 December 2008 - 03:06 AM.

[jessicantique]

the chinese and japanese drink tea as a lifestyle for health, and also kind of an art thing.

for so many years, the traditional way to take tea is on leaves, tea bags are later come out for the sake of convenience laziness of us modern people.

so i guess, referencing the old chinese and japanese custom, leaves is the better way to follow,

personally, i also take tea extracts, since it is difficult to get high quality tea leaves nowadays, the content of tea leaves are greatly affected by soil, climate, water quality, and all kind of practices in the agriculture, (pesticide, soil polution,,,.. etc. ) ,
i live in asia, i will never trust tea leaves from china, may be japan they have better ones,

my personal observation only

[JLL]

Anybody know a good place to order the powdered tea (matcha)? Can't find that stuff in Finland.

[platypus]

Anybody know a good place to order the powdered tea (matcha)? Can't find that stuff in Finland.

Tokyokan in Helsinki carries it, great stuff:

http://www.tokyokan.fi/

[JLL]

Thanks! I'll go and check their prices.

[platypus]

Thanks! I'll go and check their prices.

It's ~8EUR for a small can of maybe 50 grams, quality stuff and well worth the price IMO. You can get the matcha-whisk from the same place.

[picious]

Don't overload yourself with this stuff. Consuming it in moderation is the key. Green tea leaves are full of fluoride. By consuming more than 10 cups a day, you are already getting the highest amount
 of fluoride proved by FDA. 

All green tea leaves are different. I know that Gunpowder leaves have high amount of fluoride. Also, it depends if those leaves are young or old. Older ones have much higher fluoride content.

[kismet]

All green tea leaves are different. I know that Gunpowder leaves have high amount of fluoride. Also, it depends if those leaves are young or old. Older ones have much higher fluoride content.

The natural tea fluoride (e.g. calcium fluoride) may be less dangerous thant artificial (sodiume fluoride). Switching from a fluoride rich toothpaste to a xylitol-based one can reduce fluoride levels ingested. No health problems in Japan (a lot of green tea intake and soil rich in fluor). Pick the younger teas if the older leaves contain more fluoride then.

Our green tea fluoride discussion thread with quite a lot discussion about fluoride. 

[Forever21]

I drink TeasTea and take New Chapters Green/White Tea. Learned both from Duke Almighty.

In addition, when out, I drink white tea (white peony) for stronger health benefits than green tea and less fluoride.

I drink organic green tea (sencha), sometimes matcha, avoids Hojicha (lower grade, roasted) and Genmaicha (mixed with grains).