The Most Hated Family In America
Live Forever 03 Apr 2007
Here is the documentary:
Edited by Live Forever, 28 August 2007 - 07:51 PM.
Live Forever 03 Apr 2007
Embedded:
Edited by Live Forever, 28 August 2007 - 07:51 PM.
futureofscience 03 Apr 2007
But well worth a watch.
Live Forever 03 Apr 2007
http://news.bbc.co.u...ine/6507971.stm
I think just calling them crazy and moving on is dishonest intellectually. It seems as though they are more or less brain washed from birth to believe this nonsense. (a given I suppose) I can see how this could be done with just about anyone who was raised in such an environment. Out of the 13 children that Fred Phelps had, 4 have "fallen away" and left the church, which shows that some people can indeed break the hold of this type of teaching, but the fact that 9 stayed shows it is hard.
I felt most sorry for that one girl that Louis was following around some which is in college but doesn't want to associate with anyone outside of the church, or have a boyfriend, or anything else because she thinks the world is ending soon and it would be pointless.
basho 03 Apr 2007
These people are being indoctrinated with a belief system that eliminates their empathy towards those outside of their own small group. There is danger in the fact that they are being trained to hate, and especially that they to believe that the death of people outside of their religion is something very good, something to rejoice over because it is the divine will of God. This is definitely sociopathic behavior or a narrow form of psychopathy. One of the symptoms of psychopathy is: "... a person having no concerns for the feelings of others and a complete disregard for any sense of social obligation. They seem egocentric and lack insight of any sense of responsibility or consequence." I wonder if the leader will do what similar cult leaders have done in the past and force the suicide of his family at some point if he feels threatened?
Pity that the young kids have no escape from this life of religious brainwashing. Unfortunately, apart from their more extreme religious views and actions, they'd be considered a model American family.
Mind 03 Apr 2007
niner 03 Apr 2007
biologic 03 Apr 2007
I think just calling them crazy and moving on is dishonest intellectually.
What would you consider 'honest' intellectually in this case? There really is nothing that you can do because they aren't breaking the law, and any attempt to "call them names" would prove futile -- they have already seen it all and are not a bit offened. What should we do? Send them letters? Any true neurologically satisfying way of getting under their skin would be illegal. Dismissing their ideas would be the most satisfactory way to deal with them, in my opinion. Even if the case arrived where you were face to face with one of their "pastors", what would a screaming argument solve? More resentment and hatred would arise.
What I really mean to say is that you should just deal with them as you would deal with any other chrisitian who you disagree with: calm, collected and sharp.
I see how angry this type of propaganda can make a person (including myself) become . I just think that screaming and yelling at them is exactly what they want -- attention. Ditch this BS forever (here comes my emotional side [huh] ).
JohnDoe1234 03 Apr 2007
Live Forever 04 Apr 2007
Glad you liked it. Although I disagree with Hitchens on some things (the war in Iraq being one), he is a powerful and persuasive speaker in my mind, and his views on religion, free speech, and a variety of other topics are quite agreeable to me.One of the best speeches I have ever seen on why freedom of speech (and specifically freedom of speech from "crazy" or fringe groups is good for everyone, and should be protected) comes from Christopher Hitchens:
Powerful. I especially agree with the thought that these crazy type groups are good for the reflection upon ourselves. Just wow.
One would hope that to be the case. You don't want to say that there are some people that shouldn't be allowed to partake of extreme life extension when it becomes available, but perhaps as a society we would be better off if they did not.I remember watching that interview on Hannity and Colmes a while back... That blows my mind, I am not one who usually wishes death on people, but… I think that once grandpa dies, things will be a little looser around there, maybe even enough so that a few more can escape
niner 05 Apr 2007
At the moment, we subject some people to extreme life reduction... Something tells me that in the future, there will be some people who will not be allowed to partake of extreme life extension.One would hope that to be the case. You don't want to say that there are some people that shouldn't be allowed to partake of extreme life extension when it becomes available, but perhaps as a society we would be better off if they did not.
Live Forever 05 Apr 2007
Prison inmates.
One of the very first threads I ever started here was on that:
http://www.imminst.o...t=ST&f=3&t=7052
william7 08 Apr 2007
Just as we have pseudoscience motivated by money, we also have pseudoreligion motivated for the same reason. This is why I'm for abolishing money as a motivator of human behavior and living communally as all serious Christians need to in order to practice their religion consistently and successfully. See http://www.imminst.o...70&t=15317&st=0.
This doesn't mean that I believe the Phelps family is not redeemable and should be denied extreme life extension. They just need to repent and change their behavior like anyone else - including prisoners in correctional facilities. Once radical life extension is made available in a communal setting and people see the need to make the necessary changes to obtain it, I'm sure most will change accordingly.
JohnDoe1234 08 Apr 2007
Pseudo-science = plain old, calm, and loving religion.
Phelps family = psuedo-science's methodology + psychotic, religion-induced harmful cult.
You see psuedo-scientists selling magnetic rings, not convincing their children that they are going to hell. The mere fact that religion allows trash like this to happen is yet another reason why it should be eliminated from the world.
You don't see people running into crowded buildings and screaming: "In the name of science!" and then blowing up... Religion is no good, and this is simple more proof, there is no way that you can even begin to compare this to simple psuedo-science. you can't have a psuedo-psuedo-beleive or methodology, it doesn't work that way.
And Elijah, religion is almost always motivated by money, who has the most extravagant church, who can have the nicest stain-glass windows, and what preacher can have the most houses and cars... You see it everywhere, every couple of months you hear about corrupt religious leaders on the news.
william7 08 Apr 2007
Have you ever heard of what psychiatry has done in the name of medicine? They ruined relationships and reputations through the pseudo labeling and stigmatizing of people. Have you ever heard of Marxian science? These Marxist communists in the name of their science and atheism have killed millions as lunarsolarpower aptly points out in his post at http://www.imminst.o...20. And how did they commit all those murders? With bombs and guns made by chemists and other scientists. I believe I could come up with more examples if thought about it awhile.
Even if the false practitioners of religion are responsible for more evil in the world, this is all the more reason we need to educate them to a better understanding of the Scriptures in order to put a stop to all this madness once and for all. Wouldn't you agree?
You're a young person with a lot of life ahead of you. My advice to you is tha you should study the Bible and communal living. You should think about getting in a program like Living Routes.
JohnDoe1234 08 Apr 2007
Marxian Science isn't a point to be held valid for this argument at all. Science is merely a way to gather factual knowledge. It is completely neutral, it has no agenda, this is easily proved by watching chemicals react, they react the same way each time, they are not racist, they do not have feelings toward each other... they simply trade subatomic particles as needed. There is nothing about science that is inherently good or evil, anyone can abuse anyone can abuse any knowledge, These atrocities would have been attempted on other scales had it not been for the convenience of the "bomb" it is that fault of the person who misuses technology, not the engineer or scientist (unless they freely do this to harm people).
Religion on the other hand has an agenda, and makes claims of things that have happened, and will happen, and since they are packaged so nicely, people just eat them right up. Religion is not neutral, and it does not have the benefit of proof.
People who use technology to intentionally harm people are bad to begin with
People who use scripture in sincere belief that they are right, and harm people... are delusional, and need help as do the people who abuse technology to their own gains
Elijah, we have to remember, that technology can be misused by everyone... from atheists, to Muslims, to Christians... where do you think the Phelps family got their nice little computers in that computer room? how do you think they got to their pickets? I liken technology to breathing, everyone can utilize it, if you can't breath as wells someone, you can't beat them in a race, and if you use your superior ability to breath to win a fight against someone with asthma it's not your superior ability to breath that is to blame, it is your merciless attitude.
If we got everyone in the entire world to subscribe to the exact same belief, then yes, we would all be happy and dandy for a long, long time, but... if this belief was religious... we would also be giving up our ability to freely learn, to conduct research without bias, and to see things unhinderedEven if the false practitioners of religion are responsible for more evil in the world, this is all the more reason we need to educate them to a better understanding of the Scriptures in order to put a stop to all this madness once and for all. Wouldn't you agree?
Well, I hope so! and I wish the same for you!You're a young person with a lot of life ahead of you. My advice to you is tha you should study the Bible and communal living. You should think about getting in a program like Living Routes.
But as for the bible study... I was raised a Christian and I remember trying very hard to make the whole "feeling god's love" thing to work... but I ditched that for something more substantial, I ditched the bible for something that I could simply look at the bottom of the paper and see where the information came from and how it was collected...
And Living Routes, I think it would be fun... but I am saving up money to study Physics abroad in Austria or Germany someday, I think that it would slightly more productive, but yes... the communal living thing would be educational experience for everyone.
EDIT: Spelling
Edited by josephjah, 09 April 2007 - 09:23 PM.
Live Forever 10 May 2007
Unfortunately the original videos were taken down. I assume you mean the Hitchens one...Awesome video. Awesome.
Edit: Split the Hitchen stuff to its own thread: http://www.imminst.o...=179&t=15900&s=
Live Forever 13 May 2007
Live Forever 28 Jun 2007
http://my.break.com/...ontentID=278059
amar 28 Jun 2007
Zarrka 28 Jun 2007
so much for jesus being the love sector.
28 Jun 2007
I strongly discount those things which were not (allegedly) spoken by Jesus himself. Mystical visions can be very confusing and untrustworthy needless to say, and second or third hand accounts of mystical visions even more so. I'm sure there are counter-examples, but on the whole, I have the impression that the actual teachings that Jesus himself spoke (at least as it has been documented in the bible) were surprisingly humane and even modern in many aspects. His teachings are especially striking in this regard when put in contrast with the prevailing violence and barbarity (c.f. ancient judaism, and ancient and modern islam) that has dominated that part of the world both before and after him.
Zarrka 28 Jun 2007
28 Jun 2007
I choose what seems reasonable and useful too me, and disregard the rest. This is the same as I would do with any book. I see no reason why, when I read a book - whether its the bible or any other - that I must necessarily believe either all or nothing.
> if the book is what it claims to be then the authors are God inspired, and im not sure how that leaves much room for error.
Its almost certainly not what it claims to be, but that doesn't mean that it contains nothing useful, nor does it mean that Jesus wasn't an exceptional human being with a moral sense that far outstripped most of his peers in that region and time, or even the vast majority of people living today.
Zarrka 28 Jun 2007
Anyway i also found this.. the Chaser talking about these westbro people. thought it might amuse some
http://www.youtube.c...rqvKp0TzaY&NR=1
Embedded:
Edit by Live Forever: Embedded the video for you
Live Forever 28 Jun 2007
Yeah, that is a funny one. I have seen it before, but it is hilarious to watch again.
Another news story on these crazies:
http://www.miaminewt...s/god-hates-you
holding up signs at a churches that say things too vulgar for me to even put in quotes here.
Geez, these people are nuts.
Zarrka 28 Jun 2007
http://www.youtube.c...related&search=
(and ty liveforever for embedding that vid for me... how do you do that btw..?)
Live Forever 28 Jun 2007
http://www.imminst.o...=177&t=13725&s=(and ty liveforever for embedding that vid for me... how do you do that btw..?)