25 replies to this topic

[shamus]

I remember reading something a while ago but can't remember where it is.



Why is it that alpha lipioc acid is always recommended with acetyl-l-lcarnitine?

[rfarris]

Because revving up the engine (your brain) causes more byproducts (oxidants). ALA quenches (among other things) the oxidants created by the brain running on the ALCAR.

Of course there are other benefits of both supplements, but that is the reason for taking both together.

[edward]

Because revving up the engine (your brain) causes more byproducts (oxidants).  ALA quenches (among other things) the oxidants created by the brain running on the ALCAR.

Of course there are other benefits of both supplements, but that is the reason for taking both together.

Thats what I read too but it is a good question, as there are many antioxidants available

[Grail]

Because revving up the engine (your brain) causes more byproducts (oxidants).  ALA quenches (among other things) the oxidants created by the brain running on the ALCAR.

Of course there are other benefits of both supplements, but that is the reason for taking both together.

Thats what I read too but it is a good question, as there are many antioxidants available

Hmmm...yes, so why take ALA if other antioxidants will do the trick? Maybe the other benefits of ALA make it worthwhile anyway.

[shamus]

Because revving up the engine (your brain) causes more byproducts (oxidants).  ALA quenches (among other things) the oxidants created by the brain running on the ALCAR.

Of course there are other benefits of both supplements, but that is the reason for taking both together.

Ah hah! My thought's precisely... [sfty]


Twas my mother who tried to tell me otherwise.




It does however beg the question, why specifically this anti-oxidant?

[kenj]

R-Lipoic Acid works inside the mitochondrion in the brain (the process of how energy is created (the mitochrondrial free radical theory of aging) is one factor that age us -- damage to the mitochondrial membrane, damage to lipids and proteins inside the cell, damage to mitochondrial DNA etc.)),
vitamin C, E etc. does not.

[xanadu]

Short answer: It's become dogma.

[health_nutty]

Short answer: It's become dogma.

It originally comes from Dr. Ames rat study, but the above is now the most likely answer.

http://mcb.berkeley..../BMB/amesb.html

[niner]

Well, lipoic acid gets into mitochondria and brain, doesn't it? Not all antioxidants do that.

[Shepard]

It's because that was what was studied with Alcar. Is it the only effective way to offset any increase in oxidation due to the supplement, not in my opinion. But, you'll find that most people like to stick with what works in the studies. And it's certainly not a bad idea.

[Grail]

Of course, until further studies are done, it would be prudent to try and immitate the studies we have.
Are we sure there were no other studies?

[samonakuba]

I've wondered about this one myself. The amount of ALCAR those rats were getting was HUUUUGE, something on the order of 50 grams a day if converted to a human dosage. How do we know that ALCAR at the dosages we take have any pro-oxidant effects whatsoever?

I haven't come to any conclusions yet, but taking R-ALA always messes with my thinking style in really subtle ways, and makes me highly irritable while walking around the city. Still haven't got a clue why, was never that way with ALCAR alone and no other lifestyle changes. Cycled off and back on and got the same result.

[Athanasios]

I've wondered about this one myself. The amount of ALCAR those rats were getting was HUUUUGE, something on the order of 50 grams a day if converted to a human dosage. How do we know that ALCAR at the dosages we take have any pro-oxidant effects whatsoever?

I haven't come to any conclusions yet, but taking R-ALA always messes with my thinking style in really subtle ways, and makes me highly irritable while walking around the city. Still haven't got a clue why, was never that way with ALCAR alone and no other lifestyle changes. Cycled off and back on and got the same result.

Could it be that the R-ALA is making you hypoglycemic?

[xanadu]

One thing I've noticed from all the sups I take is it's harder to sleep. I may just quit taking everything for a while to catch up on my rest. So I can get healthy.

[tracer]

Anoher reason is for fat loss... it's a common non-stimulatory fat loss stack.

[Shepard]

Anoher reason is for fat loss... it's a common non-stimulatory fat loss stack.

That commonly doesn't work.

I crack myself up.

[jackinbox]

What's the maximum dosage for ALA and ALCAR?

[rfarris]

I don't know about the maximum dosage, but I wouldn't (and don't) take more than around 2g of ALCAR and 750mg of R-ALA per day. I take it in two doses, one in the morning, one in the evening. (altogether)

[oregon]

I heard that the efficiency of ALCAR decreases with time. So you need more and more of it to feel the effect. Did anybody experience anything like this?

[rfarris]

I heard that the efficiency of ALCAR decreases with time. So you need more and more of it to feel the effect.

Feel? What feeling do you expect?

[oregon]

I heard that the efficiency of ALCAR decreases with time. So you need more and more of it to feel the effect.

Feel? What feeling do you expect?

Alertness? Increased concentration?

[rfarris]

I don't find any of those feelings. Others?

[shadowrun]

I had those feelings for the first 4 months
(also my GF and brother who started around the same time)

I take 500 mg a day - 5 days on - 2 off

My guess is that I would need to up the dose to 1000mg or lay off for a while to get it back

[Athanasios]

I don't find any of those feelings.  Others?

I do get that feeling.

I think that most of the 'wears off over time' talk is really people just getting used to it. I think this may be the case here, and I think it is the case for adaptogens.

Regardless, I talk ALA and Alcar for the science, not the feeling. This means that I will use the available data for dosages, and disregard the feeling, if there are no adverse effects.

[rfarris]

If you like the feeling I suggest you try plain old L-carnitine. I take 3/8 tsp each morning from the LEF L-carnitine powder. If you'd like to combine both ALCAR and L-carnitine, Geronova Carnitine-Plus is another product I take. Either one will give you feelings -- I don't think it's ALCAR that's doing it.

[yucca06]

I heard that the efficiency of ALCAR decreases with time. So you need more and more of it to feel the effect.

Feel? What feeling do you expect?

clear thinking, awakening, better concentration.
It's very noticeable for me.

...Maybe it decreases...maybe not : I take also some other supplements who could help for this (tyrosine, deprenyl, rhodiola...) so I can't really say one is less effective than another. The fact is that the 1st time I took 1g ALCAR at about 16:pm, I couln't sleep more than 3 hours the night after. Now I can take 2g at once in the afternoon and sleep with no pbs. But I still feel much more concetrated/awake all day long.