38 replies to this topic

[mitkat]

I've got my brother on an exercise and basic supplement regimen.

He takes (can't remember doses right now):
Apple cider vinegar
No flush niacin
Taurine
Chlorella
R-ALA
L-Arginine

Adding:
AOR multi-basics
New Omega3 supp

I am getting him to add supps slowly so we can monitor how he feels. He'll be doing cardio 5 days a week, and I'm working on something more balanced for him exercise wise...oh boy, no idea. His diet is gonna be mitkat-style no fun vegetarian for the time being.

BUT my question is has anyone used any weight loss supplements? I shun most of them as pure snake oil and turn my nose up at them...also mainly because I've never had to think about using them. I'm thinking benagene to start with, as expensive as it, we'll give it a two month trial run or so.

Experiences, comments?


edit: I am not making a distinction between "weight loss" and "weight control", I am interested in all options.

Edited by mitkat, 08 May 2007 - 10:52 PM.

[luv2increase]

Can't help you with any particular formulas, but I can recommend lipoic acid and alcar. You probably knew that already though.

[mitkat]

Can't help you with any particular formulas, but I can recommend lipoic acid and alcar.  You probably knew that already though.

Thanks Luv2...I am about out of ALCAR, and was not sharing it with him - but should. Here's an annoying reality for me...ALCAR is totally illegal in Canada [tung] "God bless our native land!"

Of course, I can still acquire some, it just takes a little time

[Shepard]

I've tried damn near every legal (or easily attainable) "weight loss" thing under the sun out of curiosity at some time or another. Is there any particular type of supplement or MOA you're looking for?

[mitkat]

I've tried damn near every legal (or easily attainable) "weight loss" thing under the sun out of curiosity at some time or another. Is there any particular type of supplement or MOA you're looking for?

Weight loss supplements creep me out. The smiling faces, the infomercials, the before and afters...you may be just that much braver than me, Shep!

I have no real mode of action in mind for the supp. At the same time, I don't want to give him just anything health-wise. What, if any have shown any sort of difference over the years?

Edited by mitkat, 08 May 2007 - 10:53 PM.

[health_nutty]

Green tea extract. Good for you too!

[Shepard]

Weight loss supplements creep me out. The smiling faces, the infomercials, the before and afters...you may be just that much braver than me, Shep!

Okay, I guess I lied. I've never tried any of those proprietary blends that have infomercials. Except, I did use Hydroxycut back when it was worthwhile and I didn't know any better. That was before MuscleTech became huge, though.

What, if any have shown any sort of difference over the years?

Honestly, most of the more mainstream ones are better served as crutches to make a diet bearable. Appetite suppressants, stimulants, etc. can be very useful in a prolonged caloric deficit. There are certainly many more options, but I imagine you don't want to jump off into that just yet.

Acetyl-l-carnitine certainly isn't a bad idea. He might want to try propionyl-l-carnitine as well, if you can get it. It's more suited to this application, in my experience.

I would probably hold off until he begins some form of strength training unless he does need some form of appetite suppression or stimulants. He should see fairly rapid changes once he begins training. Although, coffee and green tea couldn't hurt.

[PWAIN]

How about Hoodia gordonii, I havent tried this but I heard very good things about it a while back. Supposed to act as an appetite suppressant. Also heard that sesame seed extract (Sessamin) is supposed to work. Again I cannot verify with personal experience.

[edward]

Two Ayurvedic herbs

guggul /guggul lipid from Commiphora mukul
and
forskolin from Coleus Forskohlii

and of course Green Tea

and Resveratrol

This combo should have your brother slim trim and healthy in no time

[Shepard]

Hoodia does work if you get the correct extract.
Sesamin (Sesathin) has a lot of fans and quite a few non-fans.
Guggulsterones have effects on a number of nuclear receptors. I'm not a fan.
Forskolin is good. It's worth looking into the MOA before taking it, though.

[ageless]

I have used and recommend:
High EGCG content green tea extract like AOR's EGCG MAX
Guarana standardized to 22% caffeine
CLA 2-4g divided doses
Benegene: Seems to be working for me past 5 weeks
Fish Oil DHA/EPA 1-4g
Coleus Forskolii: May also raise testosterone.
Ephedra in sane and sensible doses if available.
Cinnamon extract and other supplements effective in improving insulin function... become a master over insulin and you got yourself a huge advantage over fat, disease and aging in general.
Possible resveratrol.
Good whey supplement to allow for good source protein while minimizing fat and carbohydrate.
Last, but certainley not least, a good multi like Ortho Core or Multi Basics 3.

[mitkat]

Thanks all very much for the information. I will go over this later with him!

[shadowrun]

I don't think you can go wrong with Green Tea Extract - Safe, effective and tons of other benefits

Getting him caffeinated before the gym wouldn't hurt either

[skaman607]

Yohimbine HCl is supposed to be a good supplement. I haven't done a lot of research on it, but it seems to be worth looking in to. I do know that you retain water while on it, so it may take a week or two off of it for him to see the full results. Also, don't buy the yohimbe bark stuff, because it is not standardized.

[wayside]

Mercola is now recommending a weight-loss product called "Living Seas fucoTHIN", which is brown algae concentrate with something called "fucoxanthin", and pomegranate seed oil.

The statistics from the studies looked interesting, until at the very bottom I saw the footnote that said "Participants also followed an 1800 calorie meal plan."

Still, it might be worth a look.

http://www.mercola.c...oducts/fucothin

[health_nutty]

Yohimbine HCl is supposed to be a good supplement. I haven't done a lot of research on it, but it seems to be worth looking in to. I do know that you retain water while on it, so it may take a week or two off of it for him to see the full results. Also, don't buy the yohimbe bark stuff, because it is not standardized.

Yohimbine has questionable safety. Do some research and decide for yourself before taking it.

[Karomesis]

Mitkat, of the VERY few supplements/weight loss products that have any science behind them, most do so in a way that in unbecoming of one who is actively engaged in life extension. they increase heart rate and thus burn calories.

depending on his age, I would reccomend starting with Metformin, acrabose, and ALCAR all of which will probably increase his lean mass and MF has the added benefit of being a CR mimetic. [thumb]

and yeah, strength training is a prerequisite for really getting into shape and losing the unwanted pounds for good by increasing the BMR.

[mitkat]

Mitkat, of the VERY few supplements/weight loss products that have any science behind them, most do so in a way that in unbecoming of one who is actively engaged in life extension. they increase heart rate and thus burn calories.

depending on his age, I would reccomend starting with Metformin, acrabose, and ALCAR all of which will probably increase his lean mass and MF has the added benefit of being a CR mimetic. [thumb]

and yeah, strength training is a prerequisite for really getting into shape and losing the unwanted pounds for good by increasing the BMR.

Thanks Karo, I don't know anything about metformin really...research ahoy. I should of mentioned - he is 29.

[tintinet]

Metformin use often results in weight loss, and may optimize insulin sensitivity and blood glucose, fasting insulin levels, even in "normal" people. It does have known issues (most notorious metabolic acidosis usually only occurs in severely ill folk with multiple medical issues.)

For me, it's a quite powerful appetite suppressant. I've tried a variety of hoodia preparations with variable results that STM to be unpredictable.

t-resv. also suppresses my appetite, at least at relatively high doses (~500mg/day).

Green tea, forskolin, caffeine, ephedra, all have known effects. Many bodybuilders have used nicotine, although a rather controversial issue.

Sesamin- from studies of metabolic mechanistic effects seems like a great idea. Personally I didn't notice much, if any, effect, and some have reported libido suppression.

Omega-3s, fer sure, regardless of weight issues, seem like a plus.

CLA- controversial, at best.

I've been taking Benagene for a coupla months, and have lost a little weight, inadvertently, but effects confounded by simultaneous ramp up of t-rsv. over same period.

etc.....

[sentinel]

Hey Kat

If you so want to look at specific supplements which have particular pre-workout/aerobic benefit (ie stimulant/energy enhancing) then 2 I have tried which have worked are (Lee) Labrada's Charge! :

Amount per 2 capsule serving;

Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B5) - 40mg
Green Tea Leaf Extract (95% polyphenols; catechins 90%; epigallocatechin gallate [EGCG] 45%)
Guarana extract (198mg caffeine)
Bitter Orange (9mg synephrine)
White Willow Bark Extract (7.5mg salicin)
Ginger Root
Proprietary Charge! Thermoblend
(comprising L-Tyrosine, L-Carnitine, Naringin)

and Lean System 7:

Serving size: 3 capsules
Servings per Container: 90 capsules (30 x 3 capsule servings)

Ingredients Per Serving
Guarana Extract 700 mg
Yerba Mate 500 mg
Citrus aurantium fruit 300 mg
Green Tea Leaf Extract 300 mg
Dandelion leaf and root powder 250 mg
Bioperine 5 mg

Both have a strong stimulant effect which I have used before running and weights. Charge has the stronger kick whereas LS7 is more an allday background boost/appetite suppressant.

A couple of points:

I am highly stimulant sensitive so I started light on these supplements; take one and see what happens, don't do straight into the take 2 or 3, 3 times a day recommendations or you won't sleep and probably suffer from tension/anxiety. (Alcar does nothing for me BTW).

Both of these used to contain ephedra but were forced to drop it due to 1 or 2 people popping their clogs but this is not to say that ephedra or ephedrine are not effective or necessarily dangerous if used sensibly.

Look at your brother's meal timing. If he is particularly prone to having large meals in the evening then that will be the best time to train and/or take these supplements as I always found that if I was going to the gym in the evening I would not go out for a beer/dinner and the training would kill my appetite for a good hour afterwards, with or without supplements.

These days I train at about 6:30am which is good for motivation as you start the day ahead and have a higher tendency to make positive choices on food etc from that point on.

For any regime to work it has to be sustainable and performed consistently and this will only happen if you work to some extent with the persons psychology and natural tendencies.

Sentinel.

[Shepard]

I still can't bring myself to try metformin. You guys really think it would be beneficial in someone who is just starting out? The exercise change is going to exert very powerful partitioning changes rapidly. I can't see any reason to use metformin when starting out on a non-diabetic vegetarian. I even haven't worked up the nerve to trying metformin for any real length of time for myself.

[Karomesis]

I still can't bring myself to try metformin. You guys really think it would be beneficial in someone who is just starting out? The exercise change is going to exert very powerful partitioning changes rapidly. I can't see any reason to use metformin when starting out on a non-diabetic vegetarian. I even haven't worked up the nerve to trying metformin for any real length of time for myself.

you're a pussy Shep [lol] [tung]

seriously though, since I like to demonstrate my point through studies, here are a few. [thumb]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_DocSum


there are many others I can show you as well. But the fact of the matter is Metformin show many promising avenues of mechanism and is a powerful ally in the fight against biological aging.

[Shepard]

I see the potential value in metformin for life extension purposes. But for weight loss? Not really. There also seem to be issues when using insulin sensitizers when going for an "ideal" body comp.

There are still too many potential issues regarding long-term hormonal regulation that I'm kind of iffy on. It might be fine, but I'll stick to other things for the time being. Although, I think I PMed a few people trying metformin to see if anyone had any changes in T/SHBG since starting it and no one had noticed anything.

Edited by shepard, 21 April 2007 - 07:30 PM.

[tintinet]

ISTM you are playing a bit of a semantic game: everything one does affects hormonal status, no? True, the effects of metformin may be more pronounced and focused than other supplements, but the effects of so many things have been only superficially examined, or not at all....

[Shepard]

I have absolutely no problem with people using metformin for LE purposes. I'm merely stating the reasons that I'm not. I'm not comfortable with this particular item long-term at the moment.

I am saying, though, that I find absolutely no reason for metformin in this situation (weight loss for mitkat's brother).

[edward]

I have not tried metformin though I have been tempted. My reservation is that in general I have low blood sugar documented in lab tests in my early teen years before I started supplementation of any kind and on every blood test since my serum glucose is always low (though recently this may be confounded by my taking ALA and other supps that have an effect on insulin sensitivity and blood sugar levels (many supplements do). So in my case my theory is that metformin would cause me to be extremely lethargic and hungry due to very low blood glucose and would not be a good thin. Does this seem to make sense. Anyone had any experience with Metformin related side effects?

[xanadu]

You want to know the best way to lose weight and keep it off? I happen to know the secret and will share it with you. There is no magic pill you can take. There are supplements that may help but that is not really the answer. The answer has to be something that does not have any bad side effects and most supplements have potential or actual side effects. The way to lose weight is to quit eating refined sugar and flour.

Food cravings are what lead to weight gain and losing those cravings are what lead to weight loss. Sugar promotes craving and flour turns rapidly to sugar. Avoid those two like the plague. Eat instead a diet high in veggies with fruits and a little bit of whole grains like brown rice. Eliminate all desserts, sodas and other crap like that. It takes a while to get used to changing your diet but it works like a charm. You also need to avoid eating too much fatty foods like nuts, cheese and so on and sugary fruits like dates or pineapple.

Resveratrol has been shown to aid in weight loss and improved fitness. There are a few other things mentioned that may help. None of them are going to do the job if you keep on eating sugar and crap. That has to go or your plan is likely doomed to failure. Excercize too is important of course.

[Shepard]

xanadu, so what if I'm a responsible dieter that monitors and regulates my energy intake? Still think refined sugar matters?

[sentinel]

Before you two go into one, Mitkat has said he's putting his brother on a no fun vegetarian diet, which I doubt includes loads of crap and asked about Weight loss supplements.

I've mentioned a couple, Metformin has had plenty of airtime despite being less than mainstream, Any other thread-related suggestions?

[tintinet]

Trans-resveratrol + green tea type supplement, a la Country Life, perhaps.

T-resv. wacks my appetite in a manner similar to that of metformin. Possible metabolic enhancing effects (green tea also) may aid weight loss.

Forskolin, sesamin, cayenne, etc.

Among OTC commercial products, ALRI Venom Hyperdrive and LIPO 6 seem to be popular at some supplement vendor websites, FWIW.