22 replies to this topic

[davie1a]

I know some of you guys and gals take metformin....

I just got hold of some metformin and would like to know the best way to take this for anti-aging purposes.

Should it be cycled ?. I am concerned that the body will fight back after continued use by producing less insulin, is this the case ? I don't want to mess up my natural system since its working fine.

Also how should it be used for fat loss purposes? . My evening meal is mainly protein with very little fat and 0 carbs. Would taking it with this meal be of any benefit?.

I know that taking it with high carb meals is useful to stop excess fat gain etc, but i am sure anti aging uses differ.

Thanks in advance.

[tintinet]

Usually steady state, daily dosing is prescribed for presumptive "anti-aging."

If you have the regular (not time-released or sustained release variant), start with low dose. I started with 250 mg QAM with breakfast (taking it with food may minimize GI upset, if you're susceptible). This dose initially gave me profound appetite suppression.

I stayed at that dose for about 2 weeks before I felt "normal" in terms of appetite. Then went to 250 mg BID, and gradually increased until I hit 500 mg TID. Been there for long time now.

[health_nutty]

Contraindications
For those taking this are you worried about the potential liver or lung issues?

From wikipedia:

Metformin is contraindicated in any condition that may increase the risk of lactic acidosis, including heart failure, kidney disorders (creatinine levels over 150 μmol/l,[21] although this is an arbitrary limit), lung disease and liver disease. It is recommended that metformin be temporarily discontinued before any radiographic procedure involving iodinated contrast (such as a CT scan or angiogram) as contrast may temporarily impair kidney function and indirectly lead to lactic acidosis.

[edit]

[tintinet]

Ya. Lactic acidosis does occur, rarely, and in severely ill people, usually with multiple medical issues such as sepsis, shock, renal failure, severe diabetes, cirrhosis, severe hepatitis, etc.

Not the type of event that spontaneously occurs in otherwise healthy folks with good organ function, but, as always, be careful.

[rfarris]

Both times I had a brain MRI and a CT scan with contrast in the last couple of years they told me they don't use the same dye that has the problems with metformin. At least not in modern radiographic procedures in the US.

[davie1a]

Thanks Tintinet.

I have been reading a bit more about metformin.

I took it today at 500mg in the morning with breakfast and 500mg with my postworkout simple carb meal after running 15km. I was pretty cranky and irritable the whole time the metformin was in my system from morning until after my workout.

In women it can reduce testosterone levels due to lowering high insulin production which causes excess androgen production in the ovaries.

Does this have any effect on the male testosterone production?

Obviously male androgens are made via a different process but could this also be affected by metformin. Lowered test levels would not be a good thing in men.

Also since it reduces available glucose for the body, and the reserves in the liver that supply the brain in times of stress wouldn't this be a bad thing as it could lower overall mental performance ?.

Even in a full or semi ketosis state the body is converting fat stores into glucose for the body and brain to use as energy. Metformin would be lowering these overall levels, which would be less than the body needs to function at full performance.

What do you think?

Edited by davie1a, 20 April 2007 - 05:13 PM.

[xanadu]

I wish people would not use terms like QAM, BID and TID without explaining them. I think it means 4x, 2x and 3x per day but I'm not sure. It could mean the dose is divided into 2 to 4 smaller doses or taking the full dose listed 2 to 4 times a day. When there is room for misunderstanding, always be clear.

[tintinet]

Ya. Sorry for the Latin!

QAM: in the morning

BID: 2 times a day

TID: 3 times a day....

RE: testosterone- Likely, at higher doses. A study of use of metformin for weight loss in overweight teen males had a side effect of libido suppression, at least. This was likely due to testosterone suppression, although don't recall if they measured testosterone specifically. In the study, they solved this issue with exogenous testosterone!!!!!

Probably less of an issue at lower doses. AFAIK, it's not a frequently reported issue.

[tintinet]

Even more re: testosterone.

Not so hot!: Metformin and Testosterone

[davie1a]

Thanks,

Its a little worrying about testosterone.

Does metformin make u irritable ?. I get irritable that when my sugar levels are low on a normal diet and even on a ketosis diet if I have not eaten for a while. So its certainly doing the trick with my sugar levels. I am not sure its of much use for me though as much of my diet is protein and fat with only carbs in the morning and sometimes after a workout.

And what about brain function on lower than normal glucose levels ?

[edward]

The low blood sugar issue is my potential problem with Metformin, why I haven't taken it yet. As I posted in another forum, my blood sugar is always low (documented by every lab I have ever gotten including ones when I was not supplementing). Therefore I have concluded that Metformin would not be a good idea for me. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary let me know. For now I think ALA and exercise are all the insulin sensitizing agents that my body can handle.

[proteomist]

I've talked to a physician about this and was told that Metformin won't make you hypoglycemic, it just increases the rate of return to baseline serum glucose levels after an increase.

The low blood sugar issue is my potential problem with Metformin, why I haven't taken it yet. As I posted in another forum, my blood sugar is always low (documented by every lab I have ever gotten including ones when I was not supplementing). Therefore I have concluded that Metformin would not be a good idea for me. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary let me know. For now I think ALA and exercise are all the insulin sensitizing agents that my body can handle.

[rfarris]

As a diabetic, I can concur. Metformin won't make you hypoglycemic.

[edward]

Thanks for the input, I might consider it now

[davie1a]

Should Metformin be cycled or used continuously, what do you think ?

Could it damage the bodys natural insulin system ?

[rfarris]

I've taken it continuously for more than a decade. My blood sugar control is better than ever. If my natural insulin system were damaged, I'd expect it to be out of control.

[rfarris]

P.S. I don't claim that metformin is the cause of all of my blood sugar control. I think much of it is due to the R-ALA I take, and the Avandia, of course.

[kenj]

Great set of experiences, rfarris and tintinet.
Seems that low dose can be used for maintaining a healthy insulin function, preventing type 2 diabetes.

A biggie review (2004) of the drug from the Annals of Pharmacotherapy:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....8&dopt=Abstract

[proteomist]

FWIW, I'm adding metformin to my regimen next week. Seems like a no-brainer to me in light of the broad safety record and benefits.

Great set of experiences, rfarris and tintinet.
Seems that low dose can be used for maintaining a healthy insulin function, preventing type 2 diabetes.

A biggie review (2004) of the drug from the Annals of Pharmacotherapy:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....8&dopt=Abstract

[health_nutty]

Are prescription drugs as easy to get as it would seem? Are getting a doc to write you a prescription or are you getting it grey market? If you guys are ordering grey market, how do you know you are really getting what you paid for?

[proteomist]

I'm doing it fully legitimately. This is not by any means necessary however. Just google metformin and you'll find no end of sources. www.anti-aging.com is an example off the top of my head.

Are prescription drugs as easy to get as it would seem?  Are getting a doc to write you a prescription or are you getting it grey market?  If you guys are ordering grey market, how do you know you are really getting what you paid for?

[davie1a]

Thanks guys, that clears metformin up for me.

I am working out in Kiev at the moment, here it is very cheep indeed, like around $2 for 30 / 500mg tabs. he he

It just shows you how much these online retailers are making on the stuff, big bucks.

I am stocking up for my trip back to the UK.

[xispes]

No doc's, just tell the pharmacist you already talked to your doc, you are doing the treatment and forgot the pills someplace far away in an island,
or just ask for it and if they ask you something say yes of course or act indignated as if they are invading our privacy, or having doubts.
If that doesnt work, just leave and go for the next pharmacy. Pharmacy's just wanna sell, sell and sell. they dont care how.

PS: This of course doesnt work for controled substances. but most of them are not.

Stand tall and proud!

it's true. online pharmacy's are a ripoff, as i see it, they are reaching the buyers pocket.

If you are in europe (at least most european countries) just go to the nearest pharmacy around the corner and buy what you need.

Metformin
http://www.infarmed....a...pt=1&flag=1

Selegiline
http://www.infarmed....a...pt=1&flag=1

I'm lovin' it.

Big up your Health!