17 replies to this topic

[greece]

I have a friend who was taking a supp named CORTIBLOK (from an unknown company named ABF) which contains 7-keto (100mg) and Phosphatidylserine (60mg).
His main purpose was to help his muscles status BUT he claims that this supp gave him unbelievable euphoria....

I did a search on the net and I found that Phosphatidylserine supports brain, memory and learning functions...
I take daily a chemical substance (dutasteride) which gives me brain fog so I would like your opinions/experiences about Phosphatidylserine....

[Shepard]

Many people believe the PS available on the market is not effective. Others think differently. Either way, you're going to need more than 60mg.

I have a bottle of Now PS that I intend to dose at 600-800mg/day at some point to see if anything happens.

[synaesthetic]

I have taken Phosphatidylserine and I only noticed a mild increase in focus.

[xanadu]

Maybe it's the combination of the two? Maybe it's the power of suggestion? Maybe it's something else?

[mike250]

PS works quite well to blunt cortisol levels. only problem is the dosage is relatively large.

[stephen_b]

I've taken Ray and Terry's phosphatidylcholine, which contains 420 mg of Phophatidyl Choline from 1200 mg soy lecithin extract. I only took one a day instead of the recommended 2-4 and didn't notice any stimulant or euphoric effects.

They also say "By taking supplemental PtC, you can reverse the age-related decline of PtC in your cell membranes and keep it at a youthful level."

Recently it was suggested by Ray and Terry's that the product might enhance resveratrol bioavailability due to the lecithin.

Based on my running performance, I'm inclined to believe that lecithin is better than quercetin (this is an admittedly unscientific opinion).

Stephen

Edit: I'm getting phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylserine confused. Sorry!

Edited by stephen_b, 27 April 2007 - 07:54 PM.

[synaesthetic]

Perhaps this euphoria is the endorphin high from working out with the lack of stressful cortisol

[Shepard]

stressful cortisol

Cortisol isn't stressful. It's exactly the opposite. However, stress can lead to elevated cortisol.

[FunkOdyssey]

I have a friend who was taking a supp named CORTIBLOK (from an unknown company named ABF) which contains 7-keto (100mg) and Phosphatidylserine (60mg).
His main purpose was to help his muscles status BUT he claims that this supp gave him unbelievable euphoria....

I've taken 300mg of PS daily for periods of time and noticed no significant effects. There is nothing euphoric about 7-keto DHEA either. I'm guessing your friend has an extraordinary response to the placebo effect.

[edward]

I have a friend who was taking a supp named CORTIBLOK (from an unknown company named ABF) which contains 7-keto (100mg) and Phosphatidylserine (60mg).
His main purpose was to help his muscles status BUT he claims that this supp gave him unbelievable euphoria....

I've taken 300mg of PS daily for periods of time and noticed no significant effects. There is nothing euphoric about 7-keto DHEA either. I'm guessing your friend has an extraordinary response to the placebo effect.

I agree. I have taken both PS and 7-Keto together and seperate (I've taken everything at one time or another) and I never experienced any euphoria. Placebo effect or perhaps the person in question had some weird deficiency or problem that one or the other helped thus making him feel better or good for the first time in a long time.

[greece]

Hmmmmm.....Thanks all of you for your replies [thumb]

[stephen_b]

In my previous post, I posted about phosphatidylcholine when the thread was about phosphatidylserine. Oops ...

Stephen

[krillin]

I have a friend who was taking a supp named CORTIBLOK (from an unknown company named ABF) which contains 7-keto (100mg) and Phosphatidylserine (60mg).
His main purpose was to help his muscles status BUT he claims that this supp gave him unbelievable euphoria....

I did a search on the net and I found that Phosphatidylserine supports brain, memory and learning functions...
I take daily a chemical substance (dutasteride) which gives me brain fog so I would like your opinions/experiences about Phosphatidylserine....

25 mg 7-keto DHEA gave me euphoria on the second and third days I took it. It also relieved the muscle tension I get from my mold allergy activating the stress system. It doesn't work anymore, but I'm going to try higher doses now that I know my DHEA-S is pathologically low. (113 mcg/dl!) No doctor would order the test no matter how much I begged, so I had to get it on my own through LEF.

I take Seriphos instead of PS. It just has phosphorylated serine to get around the potential problem of having the wrong fatty acids attached. One capsule of it doesn't do anything noticeable.

Edit: I first typed that I had the euphoria for the first two days, when it was actually days two and three.

Edited by krillin, 27 April 2007 - 08:54 PM.

[krillin]

stressful cortisol

Cortisol isn't stressful. It's exactly the opposite. However, stress can lead to elevated cortisol.

Cortisol shrinks the hippocampus which exaggerates the stress response.

[Shepard]

Cortisol shrinks the hippocampus which exaggerates the stress response.

This is from a situation of chronically elevated cortisol over a long period of time.

[krillin]

This explains why 7-keto DHEA felt like a non brain-frying version of Cymbalta for a few days.

Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2003 Jan;165(2):97-110.
Neurosteroids in depression: a review.
van Broekhoven F, Verkes RJ.
Department of Psychiatry, Unit for Clinical Psychopharmacology and Neuropsychiatry, University Medical Centre Nijmegen, P.O. Box 9101, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands. f.vanbroekhoven@czzopsy.azn.nl

RATIONALE: A deregulation in concentrations of the neurosteroids (allo)pregnanolone and 3alpha,5alpha-tetrahydrodeoxycorticosterone (3alpha,5alpha-TH DOC) has been found in depressed patients. These levels normalize following treatment with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Furthermore, administration of the neurosteroid dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) to depressed patients is associated with an improvement in the symptoms of depression. OBJECTIVE: The aim of the present review is to clarify the mechanisms whereby neurosteroids, particularly allopregnanolone and DHEA, are involved in depression and to discuss the effect of SSRIs on allopregnanolone concentration. METHODS: Literature on preclinical and clinical research has been analyzed in relation to the pathophysiology of depression. RESULTS: Decreased plasma and cerebrospinal fluid concentrations of allopregnanolone in depressed patients increase to normal levels following effective psychopharmacological treatment. This might either be a physiological aspect of improvement in the symptoms of depression or a pharmacologically induced alteration. Several findings support the hypothesis of an antidepressant effect of allopregnanolone. These include an antidepressant effect demonstrated in an animal model of depression and a suppressing effect on corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) and arginine-vasopressin (AVP) gene expression. SSRIs increase levels of allopregnanolone, but this effect is not confined to this class of drugs alone. The beneficial effect of DHEA administration in depressed patients might result from its sigma 1 receptor-mediated enhancement of noradrenaline and serotonin neurotransmission, antiglucocorticoid effects, and cognition enhancing effects. CONCLUSIONS: Indirect genomic (allopregnanolone) and non-genomic (allopregnanolone and DHEA) mechanisms are involved in the neurosteroidogenic pathophysiology of depression. Clinical studies in homogeneous groups of non-pharmacologically treated depressed patients are required to elucidate this relationship further.

PMID: 12420152

[health_nutty]

Based on my running performance, I'm inclined to believe that lecithin is better than quercetin (this is an admittedly unscientific opinion).

Edit: I'm getting phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylserine confused. Sorry!

I'm dumping the quercetin too based on Maxwatt's reports. I'll report back any info.

[ortcloud]

I would probably attribute it to the keto dhea also, as I cant see the ps doing it especially at 60mg. I take 200mg. and barely notice much, I take it with my fish oil to emulsify it. I am going to go up to 500mg. as I found 500mg. caps at vitacost for a very reasonable price.