19 replies to this topic

[paragon]

NOTICE of Group Testing of INEXPENSIVE >99% Pure Trans Resveratrol Extract Powder

Eight other ImmInst members and I wish to test a trans-resveratrol extract purported to be greater than 99% pure which is selling for 800 U.S. Dollars per kilogram (80 cents per gram). Orders below 1kg are permitted and shipping is included in the price. The manufacturer is Changsha Organic Herb, Incorporated and their website is http://www.organic-herb.com. In order to confirm their claim of greater than 99% purity, we must pay for a complete and thorough independent laboratory assay which includes the following: HPLC analysis for purity, individual heavy metal tests for mercury, lead, cadmium, and arsenic, and a plate count. The cost of this is 600 U.S. dollars. In order to diminish the individual cost of this testing, we are looking to find other resveratrol consumers who are interested in individually purchasing this inexpensive resveratrol direct from the manufacturer but who would beforehand prefer to have it tested as a group. If this extract is indeed greater than 99% pure trans-resveratrol, which we have reason to believe is the case due to preliminary mass spectrometer analysis carried out by Imminst member proteomist, it would undoubtedly be the highest quality resveratrol for the best price available by a HUGE margin (80 CENTS PER GRAM trans!), beating out even low price 50% extracts such as the inexpensive BAC which sells for $1.08 per gram trans NOT including shipping. Anyone who feels they are stuck with low purity resveratrol due to financial constraints should seriously consider joining us in this venture. Please contact either tintinet or me through PM on this site or e-mail me at ice320@aol.com. The price will be divided equally among all participants making this group testing so much more affordable! THANKS!

UPDATE:
As of Monday, May 21st, 9 of us wish to have the above-mentioned resveratrol product independently tested. The individual cost is now only 66.67 U.S. dollars and this amount will continue to drop if more individuals sign on.

Edited by paragon, 21 May 2007 - 05:34 AM.

[tintinet]

Spammy? How so?

Forum here is devoted to what?

This post regards collaboration of forum members to lower costs of ensuring supply, if desired, of the lowest cost, highest quality trans-resveratrol supplement.

None of us involved in the group interested in such testing have any vested interest in Changsha, or have any anticipated financial gain from this endeavor other than lowering the cost of assuring high quality and freedom from contaminants for anyone who wishes to participate.

[maxwatt]

This sounds spammy.

It's not. The posters do not stand to benefit financially from the transaction, only benefit is to assure the quality of t resveratrol ordered from this particular source. As many reading this forum have an interest in obtaining highly pure resveratrol extract, it may be appropriate.

I have been able to import similarly pure resveratrol, though slightly higher in price, or only 98% pure, and it has tested as advertised as to trans-resveratrol content, and idividual heavy metals were below 1 ppm, the limits of the testing equipment. If this were to test as well, it would be a good price.

Edited by maxwatt, 05 May 2007 - 08:47 PM.

[tintinet]

This is only a "buy in" for the expenses of testing a supplement. It's not a typical "group buy." I don't know that there is a group buy forum on this site, although I've seen them on other forum sites (not supplement related.)

[paragon]

This sounds spammy.

I apologize if it came off that way. Let me make the following clear: No one who is involved, including me, stands to gain ANYTHING whatsoever from this venture except the knowledge of whether this resveratrol product is as pure as claimed, and if it is free of detectable levels of heavy metals or other contaminants. No one has any vested interest in the company mentioned. No one is trying to make any profit or even be compensated.

All we're trying to do is save money on the cost of testing this product, and potentially save money on the cost of resveratrol. Would you deny us the privilege to do so here?

We chose this company because it happened to be the company offering the lowest price for the highest quality product that we have found. If you know of, or have purchased from any other source that you believe is better, we'd be glad to know about it and possibly test that company's resveratrol product instead.

[xanadu]

I saw this on ebay. 30 gm of 98% rsv for $50

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

[zoolander]

I'll confirm that the link provided by paragon is one of the main herbal wholesale exporting companies from China

[proteomist]

Kind of heavy handed for a guy with fifteen posts, don't you think?

Spammy? How so?

Forum here is devoted to what?

This post regards collaboration of forum members to lower costs of ensuring supply, if desired, of the lowest cost, highest quality trans-resveratrol supplement.

None of us involved in the group interested in such testing have any vested interest in Changsha, or have any anticipated financial gain from this endeavor other than lowering the cost of assuring high quality and freedom from contaminants for anyone who wishes to participate.

It looks just like those African e-mails I get in my spam box. Isn't there buyer groups for stuff like this? Or maybe the sponsor this forum? I dunno seems weird to ask people for money for buy-in's is all on a forum.

[trevyn]

I'm in, if my money is to be sent to a well-known, high post count member of this forum. Too many fly-by-nights to be trusting random people with this kind of thing.

[paragon]

I'm in, if my money is to be sent to a well-known, high post count member of this forum. Too many fly-by-nights to be trusting random people with this kind of thing.

Trevyn, your distrust is absolutely understandable. We were informed by American Analytical Chemistry Laboratories Corporation ( http://www.aaclabs.com ) that it does not accept payment from more than one person. If he accepts the responsibility, Chris (tintinet) will be the one elected to pay the lab. I hope this resolves your concern.

[tintinet]

I'm in, if my money is to be sent to a well-known, high post count member of this forum. Too many fly-by-nights to be trusting random people with this kind of thing.

Coming from a low post counter, no less!

At this point, for the amount of effort we've put into trying to reduce the price of a total testing fee in the mid-hundreds, we'd have been better off begging for coins on a street corner, or flipping burgers! There's really no substantial money to be made here by running a scam, but there is money to be saved by all who want to acquire the lowest cost, highest purity trans-resveratrol by joining together to get Changsha's (or whomever's) trans-resveratrol tested, rather than either taking the manufacturer's COA on trust or paying for testing individually.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi guys,

this is just a thought I have been contemplating for sometime. So it may not be fully fleshed out (hence bear with me...)

Some of us have the opportunity and possibly the means to create a non-profit consortium group for the purpose of purchasing and testing resveratrol at low prices. Usually a batch that is made from a large Chinese pharma is between 300kg and 500kg for 50% purity rsv, and between 10kg (small rsv producer) and 500kg for a 98% purity rsv.

To buy a whole batch should decrease the price dramatically, but it is well beyond the means of most small businesses and private individuals.

If you form a non-profit consortium that is funded by people like myself and other small businesses and private individuals, it's possible to have the non-profit collect and bargain for a low price, test, and distribute the rsv to the members. The non-profit can also create a 'certification' of approval that all members can place on their products for marketing purposes, and if it grows, we can propose and include testing for other longevity products.

It's an idea I have, and I would like for you all to criticize it and find the holes to help flesh it out some more.

This is not an immediate solutioin to rsv pricing, but I would like to start this dialog with you all, as most of you have clearly done your research on rsv and are proponents for longevity products in general.

Thanks
Anthony Loera

[PWAIN]

Anthony,

What you describe sounds a lot like a more formalised version of the Paul wakfur group purchase. Problem I have with that is price. The PW group purchase is charging around $3 to $4 per gram dep on qty. I can buy from Changsa for $0.70 to $0.80 per gram. The only issue is the testing. I realise that his is synthetic and 100% purity but personally I am not prepared to pay 4 to 5 times as much for what I see as minimal benefits.

If what you are proposing can come in at $1 or less per gram (including handling and shipping costs) in small quantities (lets say 0.5Kg) and perhaps a bit less for larger quantities, then I am all for it. If it is going to get seriously padded for simply measuring out and shipping, then I'll go my own way.

[paragon]

Update:
As of Monday, May 14th, 9 of us wish to have the above-mentioned resveratrol product independently tested. The individual cost is now only 66.67 U.S. dollars and this amount will continue to drop if more individuals sign on.

I would like to make special note of the fact that, despite his manifest conflict of interest, even good old maxwatt has signed on to help us finance the cost. Bravo max!

Within the next 10 days or so, Chris (tintinet) will be accepting payment from each of us through his paypal account making this extremely quick and easy. If paypal is not a possibility, alternatively, he will likely accept a check or money order.

The testing will include the following:

1. HPLC Analysis:
Trans-resveratrol %
Trans-resveratrol-3-O-glucoside %
Cis-resveratrol %
Cis-resveratrol-3-O-glucoside %
Emodin %

2. Heavy Metal Testing:
The minimum detection level for each heavy metal will be at least this sensitive:
.025ppm mercury
.1ppm lead
.1ppm cadmium
.2ppm arsenic

3. Total Plate Count


In closing, I would like to offer my sincere thanks to all of ImmInst, to Chris, and to each of the participants for making this possible.

Edited by paragon, 15 May 2007 - 05:42 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Anthony,

What you describe sounds a lot like a more formalised version of the Paul wakfur group purchase. Problem I have with that is price. The PW group purchase is charging around $3 to $4 per gram dep on qty. I can buy from Changsa for $0.70 to $0.80 per gram. The only issue is the testing. I realise that his is synthetic and 100% purity but personally I am not prepared to pay 4 to 5 times as much for what I see as minimal benefits.

If what you are proposing can come in at $1 or less per gram (including handling and shipping costs) in small quantities (lets say 0.5Kg) and perhaps a bit less for larger quantities, then I am all for it. If it is going to get seriously padded for simply measuring out and shipping, then I'll go my own way.

resvhead,

I am not proposing a Paul W look-alike. Nonono.... I am proposing a non-profit corporation that would handle the pool of funds collected to bargain with overseas corporations for rsv, test the rsv, and disperse the rsv at cost + shipping. Members would vote on who would do the work and provide them an admin fee for their trouble to disperse, price out powder (as some gets lost during transference, and this needs to be accounted for.), and deal with the testing labs. While a second group can work on donation collection for rsv research, maybe even grants.

BTW: I have a supplier that sells below Changsa pricing for powder with >=98%, and I am sure we may find even better pricing as the consortium takes off. I am proposing something that should last the test of time, add legitimacy help small business and private individuals who are part of the non-profit get a good wholesale price on rsv, and I believe (as I spoke about it this morning with my wife, and it made sense...) we should also collect donations for longevity grants and research as well, through product or powder 'certification'.

In the end, we help the consumer by assuring quality, we help small businesses with low pricing, and we can collect to help fund research. We would also add new 'longevity' items for collective bargaining as the research comes out in favor of these.

I am still fleshing it out in my head, but so far it is something that continues to interest me.

Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 09 May 2007 - 06:32 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

I still think you should go ahead and use/test Changsa, I didnt want to take away from that.

the idea about a non-profit consortium really is one that I would like to see happen in the near future. I would like it to test quality, get low pricing, provide funds for research on longevity, and a 'certification' of quality for buyers that may be given out with a donation to help cover admin costs.

Regarding the FDA, 50% purity powder would be easily without issues from the consortium, while 98% purity or greater, would sign a supplier agreement with the consortium letting us know they will properly use the powder per US regulations.

I figure it makes sense to do it this way, and be above board with everyone.

A real Win-win if I ever saw one..

Anthony

[proteomist]

Hey Anthony, I really like this idea in principle, and hope you can make it work. Should I assume that RevGenetics plans to diversify away from straight resveratrol in this case, or focus on mid-level distribution instead of end user sales, or to focus on other value-added resveratrol-derived products? Or something? [lol]

[Anthony_Loera]

proteomist,

we are thinking about a few things we would like to see happen once rsv is dropped in price. Considering the FDA is very close to putting some fangs in the laws (making GMP production of supplements a requirement instead of just a consideration), I think buying and testing rsv powder through a consortium will be important for small businesses. It will reduce the cost of part of the GMP requirement that will be needed. But this can work for other non-pharm products as well, not just rsv.

Having said that (yes I keep promoting the consortium idea...) RevGenetics will continue to provide R500 Resveratrol, and R350 Resveratrol capsules for 2007 as we continue to fully support this molecule as an enormously powerful longevity product.

We are also looking to accommodate other rsv 'longevity' products and formulations in 2008, whether they are natural, or pharmaceutical in nature.

The idea of the consortium is really very different than the path Revgenetics is taking. I can easily separate them as we are looking at 2 different goals.

The initial role of the consortium will certainly depend on participation. If we have a low participation, then I believe it will serve as more of a non-profit broker for rsv pricing and pricing for testing labs. With high participation, I am sure the consortium can switch over to price negotiation, testing and distribution of rsv. In this role, the consortium can certainly help many more small businesses drive down the cost of one of the main GMP requirements for supplement products.

I will likely start a Wiki over at http://www.wetpaint.com/ sometime this weekend to start documentation of ideas, initial participation guidelines and goals of the consortium. Because this is all still being fleshed out, I will certainly ask for participation of folks interested in hammering out how it should operate, administration, voting and rsv manufacturer selection, etc... I believe most people would love to add their 2 cents, and clear the 'generalizations' up a bit.

Again, at this time it is still up in the air, if you are interested in the Chengsa rsv, please proceed, as the consortium will probably take some time before it becomes viable.

Thanks
Anthony Loera