6 replies to this topic

[lucid]

I have been wondering for a couple of months:

Do dietary calorie restriction, Resveratrol or Benagene synergize with each other?

Also, have any studies discovered a bell shaped curve with resveratrol doses on mice etc?
-I can not recall any studies where mice fed more Resv lived shorter lives.

Cheers.

[woly]

Sorry to slightly go off topic but what is the consensus on benagene? last i read was that the only positive studies were from the company who is selling it.

[tintinet]

Thus, no consensus.

[edward]

Yep, no consensus. Good theory though who knows without independent non bias replication of the studies. If their NAD+/NADH ratio proves effective then there are no doubt numerous ways to make this ratio positive other than the benegene molecule because there are so many pathways that could have an influence: malic acid, pyruvate etcetera. I am waiting for a cheaper method or for the price of benegene to drop.

Seems like you can't go wrong with calorie restriction ... though nobody seems to like that idea (we are a glutinous, quick fix, pill popping society) personally I do moderate calorie restriction and weekly fasting but I already have a very low body fat and bmi and any more restriction and I will begin to look like a refugee from an impoverished nation. I'd like to keep a decent amount of muscle mass and extreme calorie restriction would make that very difficult. So I too am hoping for breakthroughs in the mimetic area albeit for a different reason.

[proteomist]

I think it looks really intriguing, but I also suspect that relevant doses are on the >1gm scale, so it's very pricey at the moment.

My rational on dosing is this: 100 mg of oxaloacetate is 760 umol. Assuming total bioavailability and a drug penetrable tissue volume of fifty liters (maybe somehat high) this gives roughly 15 uM concentration. Cellular NAD+/H levels are on the order of 1mM, or 67 fold higher. Thus, it's hard for me to imagine that these doses can skew that distribution significantly.

I'd like to take it, but would probably want to take it at 1-2 grams per day. Thus I'd probably have to make it myself to be cost effective. I'm looking at a synthesis from tartaric acid. For the chemists out there, you can make oxaloacetate from cheap tartaric acid by acetylating the hydroxyls, beta-eliminating an acetate with pyridine, and then deacetylating.

[edward]

I think it looks really intriguing, but I also suspect that relevant doses are on the >1gm scale, so it's very pricey at the moment.

My rational on dosing is this: 100 mg of oxaloacetate is 760 umol. Assuming total bioavailability and a drug penetrable tissue volume of fifty liters (maybe somehat high) this gives roughly 15 uM concentration. Cellular NAD+/H levels are on the order of 1mM, or 67 fold higher. Thus, it's hard for me to imagine that these doses can skew that distribution significantly.

I'd like to take it, but would probably want to take it at 1-2 grams per day. Thus I'd probably have to make it myself to be cost effective. I'm looking at a synthesis from tartaric acid. For the chemists out there, you can make oxaloacetate from cheap tartaric acid by acetylating the hydroxyls, beta-eliminating an acetate with pyridine, and then deacetylating.

Will it be stable though? I've looked into buying it from chemical companies but it still isn't cheap and there arent that many that sell it, apparently its unstable or so some have said. I am not a chemist but have enough education in that area to wonder if they mean by that... will break down or convert to something else?or maybe it was there excuse for not having it.

[proteomist]

I looked at chemical suppliers too, and as you say the price is high. That's pretty much always the case unless the chemical is a major intermediate in a lot of common chemistry, or used for some industrial purpose. Everything else gets boutique prices. So for example, resveratrol is extremely expensive from Sigma.

I don't know how unstable it really is. It decomposes pretty quickly in water, but sealed dry and cold under nitrogen I would think it would be okay. The breakdown products will be pyruvate and carbon dioxide. Note that if it broke down rapidly for any reason in a sealed container you could have a bit of a problem.

I think it looks really intriguing, but I also suspect that relevant doses are on the >1gm scale, so it's very pricey at the moment.

My rational on dosing is this: 100 mg of oxaloacetate is 760 umol. Assuming total bioavailability and a drug penetrable tissue volume of fifty liters (maybe somehat high) this gives roughly 15 uM concentration. Cellular NAD+/H levels are on the order of 1mM, or 67 fold higher. Thus, it's hard for me to imagine that these doses can skew that distribution significantly.

I'd like to take it, but would probably want to take it at 1-2 grams per day. Thus I'd probably have to make it myself to be cost effective. I'm looking at a synthesis from tartaric acid. For the chemists out there, you can make oxaloacetate from cheap tartaric acid by acetylating the hydroxyls, beta-eliminating an acetate with pyridine, and then deacetylating.

Will it be stable though? I've looked into buying it from chemical companies but it still isn't cheap and there arent that many that sell it, apparently its unstable or so some have said. I am not a chemist but have enough education in that area to wonder if they mean by that... will break down or convert to something else?or maybe it was there excuse for not having it.