22 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

I'm curious, because black pepper has quite a bit of bioprene?

[edward]

I am still on the fence about this whole issue. AOR including piper nigrum in their Resveratrol complex has made me re-think the issue.

[health_nutty]

I've been on the fence since the issue came to my attention. I don't take any bioprene, but I don't avoid black pepper either.

[Brainbox]

And what about grapefruit? I think (but not sure) there are a lot more substances we consume every day affecting P450 enzymes we are not aware of.

[health_nutty]

And what about grapefruit? I think (but not sure) there are a lot more substances we consume every day affecting P450 enzymes we are not aware of.

Pomegranate, resveratrol, and quercetin to name a few.

[Brainbox]

This seems to be a quite recent overview of P450 family enzymes. As far as I understand it partly describes on which form a certain drug depends on in its metabolism, but it doesn't give information which substances influence the occurrence, amount or effectiveness of these genes...

[Brainbox]

And what about grapefruit? I think (but not sure) there are a lot more substances we consume every day affecting P450 enzymes we are not aware of.

Pomegranate, resveratrol, and quercetin to name a few.

I have a recent experience with a drug that starts me to believe that ashwagandha could be a culprit as well, but I could not find any evidence of it yet.

[health_nutty]

And what about grapefruit? I think (but not sure) there are a lot more substances we consume every day affecting P450 enzymes we are not aware of.

Pomegranate, resveratrol, and quercetin to name a few.

I have a recent experience with a drug that starts me to believe that ashwagandha could be a culprit as well, but I could not find any evidence of it yet.

What prescription drugs are you taking?

[health_nutty]

I found this study:

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=1062157

"Withania Modulates the Activities of Xenobiotic Metabolizing and Antioxidant Enzymes in Mouse Liver
The effect of 2 weeks of dietary feeding of Withania roots was evaluated on the activities of the cyt P450 system and antioxidant enzymes in mouse liver. There was a moderate reduction in the activity of the cyt P450 monoxygenase system. Both cyt P450 and cyt b5 showed a slight but significant reduction (13%, P < 0.05; and 14%, P < 0.005, respectively) in only the LD group compared with controls (Fig. 2). Further, a significant dose-dependent increase in the activity of the phase II enzymes, GST (1.26-fold, P < 0.001 in LD; and 1.33-fold, P < 0.01 in HD) and DTD (1.67-fold, P < 0.005 in LD; and 1.98-fold, P < 0.005 in HD) was observed compared with controls (Fig. 2). Antioxidant enzymes, SOD (1.48-fold, P < 0.01 in LD; and 1.73-fold, P < 0.01 in HD), and catalase (3.15 fold, P < 0.01 in LD; and 2.99 fold, P < 0.01 in HD) also showed a significant increase in the Withania root-fed groups compared with the controls (Fig. 3). A significant increase in GSH content was observed in the LD group (1.31-fold, P < 0.05). In the case of LDH, the activity was reduced by 25–32% (P < 0.01) in the Withania root-fed-groups, indicating no cell damage/toxicity due to the treatment (Fig. 3). Overall, these findings suggested that Withania roots increase phase II enzyme activity as well as cellular antioxidant potential in mouse liver, which could be helpful in detoxification of xenobiotic compounds including carcinogens."

[eternaltraveler]

And what about grapefruit? I think (but not sure) there are a lot more substances we consume every day affecting P450 enzymes we are not aware of.

grapefruit does have to be avoided when taking certain drugs.

[health_nutty]

And what about grapefruit? I think (but not sure) there are a lot more substances we consume every day affecting P450 enzymes we are not aware of.

grapefruit does have to be avoided when taking certain drugs.

Elrond, I know you avoid bioprene, do you also avoid black pepper?

[eternaltraveler]

I don't avoid bioprene any more than I avoid any of the other of the billion-billion substances that I don't go out of my way to flood my system with.

No I don't avoid black pepper, nor do I attempt to consume tremendous quantities of it daily.

[Brainbox]

I found this study:

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=1062157

I do not have the knowledge to evaluate the details you did quote, however, in the discussion paragraph the researchers mention the following:

Our results suggest that Withania root is basically a monofunctional inducer that increases the activity of mainly phase II enzymes and has little effect on phase I monofunctional oxygenases, which is also supported by earlier studies (15). Our data show that Withania root has little effect on the cyt P450 system.

So, I need not worry to much about it I guess but be alert as ever. I did stop this medication anyway.
But it's just plain frustrating traditional "first world" medicine is not able to handle these kind of issues. If you want to play as safe as possible, medication should probably not be combined with any herbal supplements in general. Which also cuts of this route for improvement. [mellow]

Thanks for finding!

[health_nutty]

I don't avoid bioprene any more than I avoid any of the other of the billion-billion substances that I don't go out of my way to flood my system with.

No I don't avoid black pepper, nor do I attempt to consume tremendous quantities of it daily.

That makes sense.

[s123]

Is it a synonym for methoprene?

[shifter]

so is there any other reason why people avoid bioprene. If its just because it affects p450 enzyme, then why aren't we staying away from pomegrante and rsv extracts?

I know it enhances absorption of nutrients, but so long as one applies common sense and doesn't megadose on anything why on bioprene (eg 5000mg rsv with bioprene ) is it really that bad?

[Athanasios]

This is a good thread to read up on the issue:

http://www.imminst.o...=pomegranate&s=

The biggest issue with Piperine in that it inhibits liver and intestine enzymes whereas the fruits like pomegranate inhibit the intestine CYPs. This actually makes the fruits protective.

[health_nutty]

The biggest issue with Piperine in that it inhibits liver and intestine enzymes whereas the fruits like pomegranate inhibit the intestine CYPs. This actually makes the fruits protective.

Why does this make the fruits protective?

[Athanasios]

Why does this make the fruits protective?

From the second paper I cited:

Decreased presystemic oxidation by this CYP increases the systemic bioavailability of drug substrates and the likelihood of drug toxicity. Dietary interactions may complicate drug therapy but inhibition of certain CYP reactions may also protect the individual against toxic metabolites and free radicals generated by CYPs. Chemicals in teas and cruciferous vegetables may also inhibit human CYP enzymes that have been implicated in the bioactivation of chemical carcinogens. Thus, food constituents modulate CYP expression and function by a range of mechanisms, with the potential for both deleterious and beneficial outcomes.

Here is some info on Phase 1 vs. Phase 2 detoxification:
http://en.wikipedia...._I_vs._Phase_II

[health_nutty]

Why does this make the fruits protective?

From the second paper I cited:

Decreased presystemic oxidation by this CYP increases the systemic bioavailability of drug substrates and the likelihood of drug toxicity. Dietary interactions may complicate drug therapy but inhibition of certain CYP reactions may also protect the individual against toxic metabolites and free radicals generated by CYPs. Chemicals in teas and cruciferous vegetables may also inhibit human CYP enzymes that have been implicated in the bioactivation of chemical carcinogens. Thus, food constituents modulate CYP expression and function by a range of mechanisms, with the potential for both deleterious and beneficial outcomes.

Thanks cnorwood, you always have solid info!

So CYP is a double edged sword. What makes liver p450 inhibitors different?

I did re-read the pomegranate thread, but I'm still confused about this issue.

[Athanasios]

So CYP is a double edged sword.  What makes liver p450 inhibitors different?

I did re-read the pomegranate thread, but I'm still confused about this issue.

Well, there is a reason we have them in the first place. They help get rid of toxins and carcinogens, but when they do this, sometimes they have to make them more harmful in Phase 1 (p450s) to be able to get rid of them with Phase 2. So, inhibition of the CYPs in both the intestine and liver can expose you to carcinogens that would have been detoxed normally.

[health_nutty]

Ahh, that does make more sense. So do you eat black pepper? I'm trying to decide if I'm being overly paranoid or not.

[Athanasios]

I dont consciously avoid it.