CHAT ARCHIVE
* BJK Official Chat Starts Now
<BJK> thanks for joining.. topic is Ted Williams..
<John_Ventureville> And we're off!
<Rotaerk> think I'll even need to?
<BJK> we have Keith Henson and John Griggs here ..
<BJK> combined they have more experience with cryoncis than anyone alive today
<hkhenson> excellent bjk, anyone else?
<John_Ventureville> LOL!
<hkhenson> nah, hugh hixon has more than any two other people at alcor
<John_Ventureville> I would buy that
<John_Ventureville> how about Tanya?
<BJK> what about mike darwin?
<hkhenson> only person who rivels him is Mike darwin
<hkhenson> and he is unstable to put it mildly.
<Rotaerk> never heard of mike darwin
<John_Ventureville> a sad story
<hkhenson> mike is a prodigy in cryonics, but also not stable.
<BJK> well, i have to ask.. is this Williams thing.. the recent controversy a plus over all?
<hkhenson> I don't know what he is up to now
<Utnapishtim> I'd have to say no...
<hkhenson> no idea if it is over. probably not if it goes into a lawsuit.
<BJK> for signups in particular?
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http://virus.lucifer.com<ravi> it has been bad publicity for alcor
<hkhenson> I think LJ may find that his scheme whatever it was isn't working out so hot.
<Kissinger> if they are legit then they have nothing to fear by taking Johnson to the mat
<Utnapishtim> I do not understand why the Ted Williams suspension was allowed to go forward in the face of such shoddy paperwork?
<hkhenson> they might well do so.
<John_Ventureville> it was a very dumb move on his part to put those photos on his website and then ask for money
<BJKlein> sorry that's just 'Grigg' not 'Griggs' .. right John?
<hkhenson> has been done before utn
<John_Ventureville> BJ: right, thank you
<BJKlein> John Grigg.. lock away into memory
<John_Ventureville> : )
<hkhenson> there must be a dozen who didn't sign their paperwork
<John_Ventureville> fairly recently?
<hkhenson> because they were already dead or close to it
<hkhenson> don't know about recently except for ted w
<Utnapishtim> it would seem to me that it places ALcor under unneccessary risk both as far as its existing patients and its credibility/professionalism is concerned
<hkhenson> that's true utn
<hkhenson> but cryonics is a risk business any way you cut it.
<John_Ventureville> Ted Williams had plenty of time to sign the paperwork had he wanted to.
<hkhenson> not really
<John_Ventureville> why not?
<hkhenson> he was not in good health
<Kissinger> does Alcor need the business...is this the reason they over look "proper documentation"?
<hkhenson> if you don't get it done well before you need it, you are not likely to get it done
<hkhenson> people have a strong inclination to put off things having to do with their mortality
<John_Ventureville> I feel Ted's celebrity may have caused Alcor to look the other way and perhaps not play by their own rules.
<hkhenson> no kissinger.
<BJKlein> That's where CI comes in handy I've heard..
<hkhenson> I doubt it john
<hkhenson> they just don't work that way
<John_Ventureville> I hope you are right.
<hkhenson> what got them was ted's son
<Kissinger> then it comes more from wanting to "fulfill the wishes of its constituency"
<hkhenson> and daughter.
<BJKlein> last minute decisions are their speciality.. Cryonics Inst.
<hkhenson> they didn't realize there was an estranged daughter
<hkhenson> not one of them is a baseball fan that I know about
<Kissinger> BJ, that should be Alcors new slogan
<BJKlein> heh
<hkhenson> they knew this was an important case, but they had no idea of how much trouble it would cause.
<Kissinger> Alcor -- Last minute decisions are our specialty
<Kissinger> hehe
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http://www.imminst.org/chatrules <BJK> Keith.. do you feel there's more anti-aging.. immortality talk in the media in comparision to say .. 10yrs ago?
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http://virus.lucifer.com<Kissinger> maybe old ted didnt want to get frozen, but his kids did, dundundun...
<hkhenson> and you can tell from the numbers quoted (if you can trust them) that alcor charged the extra ten k for ted not signing his paperwork
<Utnapishtim> Does anyone know whether Williams got a decent suspension?
<hkhenson> yes, some more
<BJK> considerable?
<hkhenson> if you exclude TW still there is a bit more
<John_Ventureville> Utnap: Based on what I have been told TW did get a good suspension, in fact one of the best ones.
<BJK> ideas as to why overall?
<hkhenson> mostly as a result of people starting to understand the singularity.
<BJK> interesting...
<BJK> singularity = possible immortality..
<hkhenson> I was brought in due to nanotech myself
<hkhenson> yes
<John_Ventureville> And the rate & progress of medical advances.
<BJK> which translates = singularity
<BJK> thus Kurzweil and others spreading this increasing tech meme = more anti-aging interest in media etc.
<hkhenson> though I must stay that it might be nip and tuck between the forces that take down civilization and those that lead to the singularity
<Kissinger> hold on, you think that there is more anti aging and immortality talk because people are become aware of the possibility of a singularity??
<BJK> ie. Leon Kass?
<BJK> keith?
<John_Ventureville> "great Singularity please come and take me away!"
<John_Ventureville> : )
<hkhenson> we might be seeing the effects finally coming home to roost of more numbers than can be sustained long term
<Utnapishtim> I actualyl disagree with this. I think the singularity concept has had pretty much zero impact on the mainstream media outlets
<Kissinger> couldn't it be the more visible advancements in the biotech field
<BJK> you see a carrying capacity problem Keith?
<John_Ventureville> Utnap: I agree with you.
<hkhenson> utn, if not singularity, nanotech.
<Kissinger> no luv for the biotech??
<hkhenson> interesing metric
<BJK> advancing tech.. seeing how it could work.. nanotech.. drexlertech.. yes i see how this could = more immortality talk.. as it's the solution people need to see for things to work..
<hkhenson> there are now 540k web pages using nanotechnology
<hkhenson> two years ago it was much smaller.
<Utnapishtim> Kissinger: I think that the highly visible biotech advances eg the genome project have fueled most of the speculation
<John_Ventureville> As medical science makes amazing progress the "mainstream" and very conventional scientists will be more and more willing to say things which will warrant an excited media article.
<hkhenson> I think it has doubled in the last 18 months or close to it.
<BJK> question is.. how do humans make better use of tech to increase their intelligence
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<hkhenson> back
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http://virus.lucifer.com<Kissinger> anyone want to go back to talkin ted?
<Mermaid> i want to hear ted talk
<Mermaid> i missed the crucial 15 mts
<hkhenson> it is amazing how few people I know are up on the ted williams suspension
<BJKlein> what do you mean Keith?
<Kissinger> what is there to be "up" on?
<John_Ventureville> ???
<hkhenson> most people I know could care less about baseball
<Utnapishtim> I think a frozen Ted is a great addition to Red Sox mythology. Now there is anticipation of a King Arthur like return to be added to the tragic tale!
<hkhenson> and the ones who do care don't go back that far
<Kissinger> yeah, the red socks will win when ted gets reanimated, hehe
<Mermaid> they should be embarassed with all the bad publicity
<John_Ventureville> Utnap: The very conservative and traditional fans of Ted generally don't like that idea.
<BJKlein> Utnapishtim, that's assuming baseball is going to remain an important game.. i just don'
<BJKlein> t see it
<Mermaid> considering they have noone but themselves to blame for
<Utnapishtim> The once and future hitter
<hkhenson> now that might work as a idea
<hkhenson> bj, you know william calvin?
<BJKlein> hmm, don't think so..
<hkhenson> or at least who he is
<John_Ventureville> Anyone remember the Star Trek episode where they said baseball died off in the mid 22nd century?
<John_Ventureville> lol
<Kissinger> utna, write a science fiction story about that
<Utnapishtim> Not a bad idea
<BJKlein> this love of athletic sports is probably going to look quite silly in the long run
<John_Ventureville> I think athletic sports will always be with us but just morph into many sports quite different from today.
<Utnapishtim> BJ: I think we will keep a lot of that stuff around for far longer than you anticipate because it provides continuity. People like having certain unchanging elements in their lives
<Kissinger> the use of steriods is a potential scandal that hovers over baseball like a dark cloud
<John_Ventureville> ....or corks in bats
<Kissinger> baseball could be sunk
<Kissinger> considering how slow paced it is
<BJKlein> it's mainly a activity for reproductive fitness indication.. but i could be wrong.. you could be right Utnapishtim..
<Utnapishtim> baseball will get sunk if it doesn't attract a younger fan base
<John_Ventureville> I can't wait to play zero gee football!
<Kissinger> ever see slam ball
<BJKlein> will humans still sit around and watch other humans hit cowhide?
<Utnapishtim> I antiocipate that it'll be overtaken by Hockey wwithin 25-30 years unless the boomers get life extension
<John_Ventureville> BHJ: or the smart material equivalent, yes
<Kissinger> ok, so with the ted williams controversy
<Kissinger> i saw a website where they were petitioning
<Kissinger> to have ted unfrozen
<John_Ventureville> www.freeted.com
<Kissinger> they seemed like christian fanatics under their facade
<kevin> bonjour y'all..
<John_Ventureville> hello
<Kissinger> hey kev
<BJKlein> Keith.. were you there for the Tim Leary missuspension?
<kevin> hi Ksngr.. JV..
<hkhenson> sort of bjk
<John_Ventureville> did you ever enter his house?
<hkhenson> my wife was actually there about two weeks before
<Mermaid> missuspension?
<Mermaid> oh..tell me a story, henson
<hkhenson> I was in tim's house many time
<hkhenson> no.
<BJKlein> Leary at the last minute decided against a suspension..
<hkhenson> it is a very unhappy tale
<Mermaid> henson: tell more
<BJKlein> not sure if it was drug problem
<hkhenson> involving mike darwin. I am highly biased, you need to get the story from someone else
<Utnapishtim> Alcor could create a great tag line around Williams. ALCOR... When Cooperstown just isn't good enough.....
<hkhenson> anyway, bjk, re calvin.
<Kissinger> lol
<BJKlein> yes... sorry..
<BJKlein> who is William Calvin?
<hkhenson> his thesis is that baseball pitchers are the high point of human evolution
<John_Ventureville> I read the book Tim wrote with help from the Mondo 2000 editor.
<hkhenson> hmm
<John_Ventureville> very interesting
<hkhenson> bjk, you really need to spend some time on calvin's web site
<BJKlein> i will..
<hkhenson> it is massive and really impressive thinking
<hkhenson> most of his books are up there.
<MichaelA> Calvin is quite cool, I need to dig into those books
<BJKlein>
http://www.williamcalvin.com/<MichaelA> He'll be here in the Bay Area in just a few weeks
<hkhenson> but they are good enough you are likely to buy them in hardback after reading them on line
<hkhenson> if you see him, say hi for me.
<MichaelA> Where do you know him from?
<hkhenson> dinner calls bb in a bit
<hkhenson> he was at hackers
<hkhenson> among other places . . . .
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http://www.imminst.org/chatrules <John_Ventureville> I have not seen the magazine yet.
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http://virus.lucifer.com<kevin> do you think that there is a little bit of overload yet.. ?
<John_Ventureville> But I have been told it was not as bad as many thought it would be.
<kevin> that's what I'm thinking, they've been around the issue like a tractor pull and they've got to come down around the middle somewhere if they want to keep Ted's memory at least a little unsullied..
<John_Ventureville> I thought the whole Larry Johnson debacle would create a media bomb detonation but I still think we have not seen the possible longterm effects which could be horrible.
<kevin> the fact that he wanted money for a picture of the head.. well totally discredits him in mine and probably the publics view as well..
<John_Ventureville> Larry from the very starting gate managed to trip over his own big toe!
<John_Ventureville> lol
<kevin> if it wasn't so tragic.. it'd be befitting a cartoon... what is the matter with the guy.. he sure took the high road on that one.
<John_Ventureville> The media has a choice of three possible "villains" to finger, Alcor, John Henry or Larry Johnson.
* celindra_ says hello
<John_Ventureville> hi
<kevin> hello
<kevin> which do you figure it will be JV?
<John_Ventureville> I read one almost decent article on the SI website which made Alcor to mainly just look like they were duped, while they showed the son as the real bad guy and yet an almost sympathetic one since he did not inherit the athletic abilities of his sire.
<John_Ventureville> "the angry son syndrome"
<BJKlein> Hmm, I don't really see that John_Ventureville..
<BJKlein> sorry.. responding to something you said a while back..
<kevin> I think the whole will come down in the public eye as a comedy of errors... with everyone and noone coming out very clean.. if anyone I think Johnson is going to get. (at least that's what I hope)
<BJKlein> about ' media bomb detonation but I still think we have not seen the possible longterm effects which could be horrible '
<John_Ventureville> I don't see Larry Johnson as even close to being really discredited but perhaps the court case will change this.
<John_Ventureville> BJ: Let me explain....
* BJKlein nods
<Utnapishtim> I'd love to see a major boomer icon coming out in favor of cryonics
<Kissinger> here here
<kevin> people may villify the son, but he is after all the son, Larry is the guy who holds himself up and then tries to capitalize on it..
<John_Ventureville> the scariest thing which could come out of this is various federal and state regulatory agencies deciding from now on to regularly stick their nose really deep into Alcor business and make us sweat as they make us jump to their every command.
<John_Ventureville> It may not happen overnight but it could still definitely happen.
<BJKlein> i see.. good point
<Kissinger> JV: We would then have to fight such regulation as any minority fights persecution of their beliefs
<kevin> Why would that be so scary JV.. ? Nobody likes having a light on their business practices, it would be like an endless IRS.. but if it so happened.. do you think even that might not change with time
<super8> hi everyone
<BJKlein> welcome back super8
<super8> thank u
<Kissinger> a lot of persecution might be good PR
<Kissinger> or just PR period
<John_Ventureville> Kevin, if they try to be decent about it Alcor might not suffer too much but if the agency leaders are at heart vindictive then that is a whole different matter.
<kevin> it would be something to be weathered.. but the PR would be great..like Ksngr said..
<Kissinger> the powers that be dont want us to have publicity
<kevin> good point again JV..
<Kissinger> they want us back into the shadows
<John_Ventureville> it might not even be p.r. at all, the media might not care to cover it!
<ravi> what do u guies think about the new cyro comany starting up in florida
<Kissinger> oh, but they will
<Kissinger> ravi: the more the merrier
<Utnapishtim> I think the media wishes that cryonicists were crankier and less well qualified so they could send them up like the UFO nuts
<kevin> the real enemy in my mind is public ignorance and apathy.. although polarization would not be welcome either and we would do well to be prepared for the questions that come with public scrutiny
<kevin> I think JV has a good point.... the media is really controlled..
<Kissinger> i agree, but if you notice the media nevers delves into the specific beliefs of Alcor
<BJKlein> Chestnut is here!!
<Kissinger> they dont want to touch that with a ten foot pole
<BJKlein> I love my Chestnut
<John_Ventureville> who is Chestnut?
<Utnapishtim> Bruces Wife Susan
<Utnapishtim> Hey Susan
<John_Ventureville> Oh!
<kevin> ravi.. just the beginning and a pretty smart outfit to capitalize on the free publicity
<Kissinger> hi
<Utnapishtim> How was your firends wedding?
<BJKlein> chestnut represent 1/4 of ImmInst's leadership
<kevin> hello Susan/Chestnut..
<John_Ventureville> very cool
<Chestnut> hello everyone....susan smiles at BJ --blushing
<kevin> and half of you I'd expect.. if not more.
<John_Ventureville> ahhhh
<Mermaid> hello Chestnut
<Mermaid>
http://www.washingto...-2003Aug24.html > this just in
<Chestnut> haaa ..
<Chestnut> Utnap: wedding was beautiful..outside country wedding..thx for asking
<BJKlein> Chestnut is certainly my better 1/2
<Utnapishtim> wow.. thanks for the link Mermaid
<BJKlein> yes.. good new thanks Mermaid
<kevin> whoa mermaid.. nice article..
<Utnapishtim> the antiaging articles have been coming in thick and fast lately
* kevin heart skips gladly
<BJKlein> that's what I wanted to ask all of you as well..
<Chestnut> BJ :O) ... they're going to think we are such sapps ! (well we are )
<BJKlein> is this a trend?
<BJKlein> is this anti-aging thing something different?
<Utnapishtim> we'll have to see how things look in a years time
<hkhenson> re
<BJKlein> Chestnut. but we are!!
<BJKlein> we have to accept our sappyness and enjoy the taste
<kevin> Even my straight faced conservative brother-in-law is finally buckling under all the articles I'm feeding him..
<kevin> BJ.. there is a mighty wind..
<BJKlein> heh kevin
<Utnapishtim> It might be worth tracking the number of notable antiaging articles that appear in mainstream media outlets each year to get a handle on the extent to which the meme is spreading
<John_Ventureville> sappyness can be a really good thing
<John_Ventureville> : )
<kevin> sappy is THE BEST!
<John_Ventureville> yep!
<John_Ventureville> that's why Bruce and Susan need to come and visit me sometime.
<kevin> articles will be coming even faster.. I predict that after the IABG conference in Sept.. we will see a flurry..
<Kissinger> yes, utna -- plot a graph showing levels of coverage
<kevin> and then A LOT more dialogue
<John_Ventureville> I will put them up in the most super romantic cabin they have ever seen.
<Chestnut> thx JV ...and kevin i love visits :O)
<John_Ventureville> sounds good to me
<BJKlein> Joanne Nova, an Australian graduate in molecular biology, said in the recent TheAGE.com article: "Five years ago you would never hear scientists use the word immortality but that's what's happening now".
<kevin> good.. because I like to take advantage of peoples hospitality.. LOL
<John_Ventureville> ha!
<BJKlein> John_Ventureville we'll have to make a long road trip
<Kissinger> the media has an uncanny ability to pick up something big before it happens, not enough to make people ready for it, but enough to say -- I told you so
<Chestnut> well maybe we need to have IWAC out here??? hiii..
<John_Ventureville> BJ: I realize it may be awhile before you can make it
<BJKlein> www.imminst.org/iwac that is
<kevin> BJ.. just in the past year.. two years.. the past few months have been startling.
<Mermaid> where is John_Ventureville..and is he giving out super romantic cabins for #immortal folks
<Mermaid> i think after 10 years, i can fake a bit of romance..but i am not counting on it
<John_Ventureville> LOL
<Kissinger> haha
<John_Ventureville> uh-oh, I'm in trouble now!
<Utnapishtim> I think we will need to wait a while to see whether the recent flurry of anti aging articles isn't merely a false alarm but actually the beginning of a major upward trend in coverage of such issues
<John_Ventureville> ; )
<hkhenson> by the way, re this LJ dude
<BJKlein> I havent seen the regular news programs in a while.. cnn and such... so it's hard to guage.. but from online internet articles it seems like a big shift toward more articles on anti-aging and even immortality
<Chestnut> haaa mermaid if you want we can share a cabin until my husband gets there 2 weeks later :O) i don't do long road trip s very well...
<hkhenson> it is better that this happened sooner rather than later.
<Mermaid> well..maybe with some really crunchy, youngling...at 28..i need something really fresh to get that romance thing restarted
<kevin> Ut: the discoveries are there.. and I think the biogerontologists community are going to start really talking it up.. they've been waiting FOR THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS to say the things that are coming forward..
<Mermaid> Utnapishtim: actually, its a journalism thing...flurry of articles on a particular topic arent uncommon
<Mermaid> Chestnut: deal!
<BJKlein> Keith as in better this happened now.. because it was going to happen one day?
<kevin> hk.. better to weed him out.. LJ was a baddun..
<John_Ventureville> Mermaid: How can you feel "old" at 28?
<Mermaid> John_Ventureville: well..how old are you?
<hkhenson> right get them weeded out sooner
<Utnapishtim> I think kissingers idea of tabulating the amount of media attention in a graph is an excellent on
<hkhenson> women tend to feel older sooner. :-)
<Mermaid> see..henson knows
<John_Ventureville> I'm 36
<Mermaid> by this, we can infer that henson is either a female or has been married to one
<hkhenson> another factor, Alcor is going to be reluctant to hire people who are not long term signed up.
<MrDebt> were always the oldest we've ever been, so should always feel old in a relative way.
<kevin> BJ.. is there a way to do this on the site.. tabulate data ?
<hkhenson> married to some really interesting women mermaid
<BJKlein> i'm sure we can find a program
<Mermaid> John_Ventureville: and you have never felt old?
<kevin> I wonder if that means they're wiser hk..
<BJKlein> maybe a google history of news idea
<John_Ventureville> not yet
<hkhenson> the history of the number of hits on nanotechnology is instructive.
<kevin> good point MrDebt..
<BJKlein> there may even be a site that does new data mining on this type of thing..
<John_Ventureville> when I turn 40 I guess
<John_Ventureville> lol
<Mermaid> John_Ventureville: when i go outside..i see 13 y/olds letting it all hang out
<hkhenson> I kept at least two of them in my memetics article
<Mermaid> and it doesnt even hang.
<Mermaid> trust me...you FEEL old as a bag
<hkhenson> heh.
<Mermaid> and women *do* age faster than men do
<John_Ventureville> I think I know what you mean because I used to date a gal who lamented needing to work out to have a firm body
<Mermaid> ask celindra if you dont believe me
<kevin> BJ.. most of the data mining sites want $$$$
<John_Ventureville> when she was a teen there was no need
<localroger> Agreed w/Mermaid, age weighs on you.
<hkhenson> mermaid, what do you think will be the effect of a zillion women who were 65 plus and were reconstructed to 18 or so?
<Mermaid> celindra: do you, as a woman, agree with me that women age faster than men
<celindra> yes, my boobs are sagging like hel at 23
<John_Ventureville> Could this be due to the fact women actually bear the young?
<hkhenson> my thought is that there is going to be an amazing shortage of guys
<Mermaid> henson: what is that supposed to mean?
<John_Ventureville> and also female beauty is predicated upon a very youthful appearance showing fertility?
<hkhenson> because guys die earlier, you are going to get a frozen in excess of fems.
<Mermaid> John_Ventureville: come again?
<Utnapishtim> henson: Is that a genuine prediction or a hope?
<hkhenson> :-)
<Mermaid> have you guys heard of the latest book by bryan sykes?
<kevin> LOL
<Mermaid> adam's curse
<Mermaid> [url="http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifeandstyle/articles/6269513?source=Daily%20Mail""]http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifeandstyle...ly%20Mail"[/url]
<hkhenson> of course, you can always run off copies of the guys who are left
<John_Ventureville> I'm just saying women have unreasonably high expectation put on them by society/biology to look young.
<Kissinger> I would like to throw out a hypothetical, let's say that a new drug/enzyme is proven to extend the life span of mice, and it is then promoted/pushed as an anti-dementia drug, and you needed a prescription for it...Would you try to obtain the substance illegally through black market means?
<Mermaid> apparently, men will become extinct
<Mermaid> hurrah?
<Utnapishtim> yes
<Utnapishtim> undoubtedly
<hkhenson> but I suspect that women will always hold their age appearance at less than men
<Utnapishtim> and I would pay a sick amount of money for it
<kevin> ABSOLUTELY
<hkhenson> that is assuming people don't abandon flesh entirely
<Mermaid> henson: thats why god made vibrators
<Mermaid> we dont need no stinking men
<Kissinger> well then, utna, kev -- we could be looking at being persecuted like common petty drug criminals
<Mermaid> (really)
<hkhenson> some men are very good. :-)
<kevin> the same will go for me if they try to regulate supplements..
<Kissinger> having narcotics busting our doors down
<kevin> just like LEF is trying to defend against the FDA..
<Chestnut> hkhenson: agree lots of men are wonderful!
<hkhenson> and they can change tires, mermaid
<kevin> I take a fistful each day.. including nootropics..
<Kissinger> kev, this is a battle i have only just recently become aware of
<Mermaid> india has a lot of stuff floating around that is absolutely illegal in the united states
<Mermaid> like stuff with trace amounts of mercury
<Mermaid> alchemy..isnt it wonderful
<Utnapishtim> Well they havenm't been effective at preventing the traffic in illegal drugs
<kevin> Mexico is also a great place to obtain stuff that would kill a horse in the US and Canada
<Kissinger> yes, but the dealers serve hard time
<Utnapishtim> how are they gonna crackdown on the prescription drugs
<Kissinger> i know kev
<Kissinger> i lived in san deigo for a while
<Mermaid> if fda approved anti aging drugs..imagine what would happen to insurance companies
<Kissinger> you can get anything you want in tijuna
<Kissinger> tijuana
<kevin> Insurance companies have been keeping pretty close tabs on longevity issues..
<John_Ventureville> but can you be sure you are buying what you had intended to get?
<Kissinger> in tijuana, most definitely
<kevin> well..it's obvious that the war on drugs isnt' working.. and that in a 'free' society.. if you can't completely control the media.. things eventually move towards more freedom..
<Kissinger> when i was traveling i didnt have dental coverage and had a wisdom tooth pulled down there
<Kissinger> and bought the pain meds afterwards
<Mermaid> i think drug companies are pushing a lot of 'legal' medications which are actually designed to keep people addicted to drugs
<Kissinger> all very legit
<kevin> holey moley KSGR..
<John_Ventureville> antidepressants?
<Kissinger> it was cheap
<kevin> you are quite correct Mermaid.. there are many instances..
<Mermaid> most medical procedures are cheaper everywhere else in the world
<Mermaid> well..almost
<John_Ventureville> one of the simple joys of life is petting a dog!
<kevin> even now.. female HRT replacement is going to get a big MEDIA BLITZ to counteract the bad publicity of the truth
<Mermaid> i am amazed that drug companies can make these commercials and put it up on the airwaves...
<Mermaid> gently nudging people to 'ask their doctor' for relief from 'this and that'
<John_Ventureville> I can only imagine how powerful their lobbies in D.C. are...
<kevin> the drug companies are in trouble.. BAYER may not have enough money to cover the costs of the lawsuuits..
<kevin> of BAY
<Mermaid> well...i am not sure i'd go the HRT way when the time comes
<kevin> of BAYCOL
<Mermaid> who sued bayer?
<kevin> Mermaid.. Don't
<kevin> there are much more benefical ways of handling female menopause
<kevin> a number of people are suing BAYER.. for BAYCOL.. which harms the heart in a number of cases.
<kevin> they new of the side effect .. memos etc.. but hushed them..
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http://virus.lucifer.com<Kissinger> that shows that they are legit, IMO
<Kissinger> they are not rushing things
<Utnapishtim> I would think that in a world with life extension property becoems a VERY valuable invest,ent
<Kissinger> yes, utna, but there is a lot of trash
<Kissinger> must be careful not to buy the snake skin
<Kissinger> must be objective
<kevin> agreed KSGR.. slow build.. they have some very good research behind them and with the Centagenetix merger they have a lot of proprietary genetic information on human genes that directly apply to longevity..
<Kissinger> when they go public I would be interested
<Kissinger> although I need more info
<kevin> I'm keeping an eye on it as well.. there's so much activity in biotech stocks though it will be easy to overlook a 'dark horse' or hookup to one that doesn't make it to the finish line.. so I'm very skeptical as well..
<Utnapishtim> Has anyone heard anything from ceremedix recently?
<Kissinger> no
<Kissinger> nothing, nada
<kevin> nope.. nothin yet.. studies are ongoing in Scotland.. and I'm sure the lab is doing more work..
<Kissinger> but some of their behaviors make me hesitant
<Utnapishtim> I think its actually worht our while thinking about how a successful anti aging therapy would impact other sectors
<Utnapishtim> of the economy
<Kissinger> they obviously have a PR department
<John_Ventureville> what is the thinking here about Biotime?
<kevin> yup.... but Ksgr.. they waited until they had done a number of studies.. probably a few of them not even in the public eye before they announced anything..
<Utnapishtim> I have a feeling that a lot of money would be sunk into porperty
<Utnapishtim> real estate
<John_Ventureville> I have heard their blood substitute product is very good.
<kevin> Biotime?.. blood substitute is something that will hookup big time.
<Kissinger> and is low hanging fruit
*MichaelA* heya
<kevin> are they being traded JV?
<John_Ventureville> yes
<kevin>
http://www.biotimeinc.com/About.htm<kevin> thnx for the headsup..
<kevin> have to check them out..
<Kissinger> yes, since they are being traded
<kevin> six year since 1997..
<Kissinger> and even if they werent being traded...
<Kissinger> there are too many to keep track of
<Kissinger> i would like to start investing in biotech
<Kissinger> but am hesistant
<Kissinger> since I do not consider myself well enough versed
<kevin> yup.. word of mouth I think narrows things down a bit.. at least I've seen people make money that way and not the other.
<Kissinger> and dont want to be suckered by the hype
<Kissinger> commercial real estate, fagetaboutit
<kevin> Investigate before you invest.. until you're comfortable with the risk
<Kissinger> yes, im still getting comfortable
<kevin> me too..
<Kissinger> but there is a lot of tempting stuff out there
<John_Ventureville> there are those who say real estate is the way to go if you can be patient
<John_Ventureville> *not stocks*
<Kissinger> if you want real estate advice you can ask me
<Utnapishtim> historically returns on stocks have been superior over the long term
<Kissinger> that is my field
<Utnapishtim> I believe
<Kissinger> no
<Kissinger> not in the US
<Kissinger> not in UK either
<John_Ventureville> where are you?
<kevin> Ut: true.
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<Kissinger> limited supply and increasing demand
<kevin> yup.. time to hunker down and await the coming storm..
<Kissinger> but commerical has some benefits that residential doesnt
<kevin> I think I'm going to need a lot more liquidity than I might have previously thought
<Kissinger> im talking investment vehicles here
<Kissinger> not residential use
<kevin> I think your right for short term..
<Kissinger> it has been my experience that day traders get burned
<John_Ventureville> isn't BJ a serious day trader?
<kevin> if they're doing it wrong.. and most of them are..
<Kissinger> if you are good at it that is one thing
<kevin> hmm... I wasn't aware of that.. Mr. Klein?
<kevin> a friend of mine has been doing it for a year to his great advantage.. makes me sick actually.
<Kissinger> but for every pro, there are ten people with visions of sugar plums dancing through there heads
<kevin> it really is just a big pyramid scheme.. to the nth degree.
<Kissinger> now is the time to get in
<BJKlein> depends.. but yes one can call me a daytrader
<BJKlein> i usually hold for more than a day however
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<Kissinger> (my dad trains race horses)
-ChanServ- Welcome to the moderated chat of the Immortality Institute :: PLEASE READ
http://www.imminst.org/chatrules <BJK> <BJKlein> depends.. but yes one can call me a daytrader
<BJK> <BJKlein> i usually hold for more than a day however
<John_Ventureville> BJK: Any day trading advice for us?
-ChanServ- Church of Virus ::
http://virus.lucifer.com<Kissinger> gotta get big balls for the market kev, i agree
<kevin> free advice that is?
<BJK> for those interested, i'm creating a forum for this..
<hkhenson> got bounced
<BJK>
http://www.infinitytp.com<John_Ventureville> cool
<BJK> you can pre-register now..
<kevin> I look forward to losing many dollars with you BJ.. LOL
<BJK> click 'member login'
<BJK> yes.. only use money you can do without
<John_Ventureville> "disposable income"
<kevin> ever since I went to vegas and lost my entire pot in a half hour.. I've been a little pissed off at gambling..
<John_Ventureville> I bet
<kevin> well I expect the bets I make in the stock market to be a little more worthwhile at least..
<Mermaid> kevin: you should speak to localroger
<Mermaid>
<kevin> was he shaved at the tables to mermaid?
<Kissinger> i saw that first immortal use to give impart his "wisdom", but he was before my time
<kevin> I don't pretend to advise.. and if it sounds like I am.. tell me to shut it.
<Utnapishtim> kevin: What did you play at vegas?
<Kissinger> in terms of stocks, i keep my mouth shut on investment
* Mermaid pokes localroger viciously
<kevin> blackjack..
<Kissinger> ah, my game, along with craps
<Utnapishtim> The only thing in vags that makes any sense in my view is sports
<Kissinger> and the sports betting of course...
<Utnapishtim> its the only game that isn't rigged for you to lose
<localroger> I have a friend who won a MILLION DOLLARS counting cards.
<Kissinger> i won on the sports, and lost on the black jack
<kevin> it was 'my game'.. until then.. I avoid gambling now.. too frustrating..
* Mermaid gasps
<Mermaid> a MILLION DOLLARS!
<kevin> HOLEY MOLEY
<Kissinger> local roger, they toss you out of the casino for that
<localroger> Working on TWO.
<Utnapishtim> www.professionalgambler.com
<Utnapishtim> interesting site
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<localroger> They are very stoopid.
<Mermaid> i dont want 20 million..i just want one lousy million
<John_Ventureville> They keep lists, pictures, you name it, and of course they share the info with other casinos.
-ChanServ- Welcome to the moderated chat of the Immortality Institute :: PLEASE READ
http://www.imminst.org/chatrules <Kissinger> they spotted him and tossed him out
-ChanServ- Church of Virus ::
http://virus.lucifer.com<John_Ventureville> Mermaid, what would you do with YOUR million??
* kevin says ... gotta get goin people...
<John_Ventureville> good night
<kevin> have a good night everyone..
<Kissinger> get a house and pay it off completely, get a lotus,
<Mermaid> i'd alter myself(surgically, if necessary) to be the perfect and efficient body ...put the rest in the bank and climb mountains for the rest of my life
<Kissinger> nite kev
<kevin> nite..
<BJKlein> take care kevin
<Kissinger> nite everyone
<MichaelA> good night
<Mermaid> no stinking bills to pay...no need to wonder if i have to walk the streets to afford a bibler tent or a goretex shoe
<Mermaid> and i'd travel to every nook and corner of this world
*kevin-away* boo..
* Mermaid sulks
<John_Ventureville> Mermaid, technology is not there yet to give you that perfect and efficient body. But you could hire one hell of a staff in the form of a personal trainer, chef, nuturitionist, etc.
*kevin-away* I've got my friggin volume turned off again..
<localroger> OK, start of the story:
http://www.kuro5hin....7/19/181127/355<Mermaid> i'll pay for the technology
<Mermaid> but i suppose one million isnt enough
<John_Ventureville> sadly it isn't
<Utnapishtim> John: One mill is not gonna be enough for the lifestyle you suggest
* Mermaid mocks John_Ventureville...you, obviously, havent seen the terminator movies.
<Mermaid> ahhhhhhhnold is god
<localroger> No, a million is pocket change nowadays.
<Mermaid> and probably gub-nor of cali soon
<John_Ventureville> But I have seen Austin Powers where Dr. Evil makes a fool of himself by demanding way too low a sum for his planetary blackmail!
<localroger> No, the LT will trump him. Repubs w/no plan will split the vote.
<Mermaid> LT?
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http://virus.lucifer.com<localroger> The Jura Mountains, overlooking the Sea of Rainbows. Remember it.
<localroger> On teh MOOOOOOOON.
