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Michael Moore's New Movie On Healthcare


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#61 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 08:32 PM

ok, I'm just going with the 'on healthcare' part of the thread title--but Mother Jones did do a review on Moore's movie-- here is the link however to their outline of the presidential hopeful's takes on healthcare reform:

http://www.motherjon...horse_race.html

#62 sentrysnipe

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 01:36 AM

Part Two


More Trivial Stuff


Cut to the chase, let's get to the good stuff. Medicare/Medicaid, Negative Outcomes Ins., Single Payer?

For dummies: http://www.grahamazo...singlepayer.php

Can't choose yet

#63 Live Forever

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:24 AM

Hillary walks out on SiCKO screening during the part talking about her selling out:
http://beginnorth.com/blog/?p=82
haha

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#64 sentrysnipe

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 03:00 AM

Michael Moore v. Sanjay Gupta






#65 doug123

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 07:20 PM

Quoted earlier (although it seems some may have missed this):

News Source: Medical News Today

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Studies Link Insurance Coverage To More Advanced Cancers

12 Jun 2007 

Two new studies find the uninsured and people with certain types of public health insurance are more likely to be diagnosed with more advanced cancer compared to those with private insurance.

The studies, published in the July 15, 2007 issue of CANCER, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Cancer Society, find availability and type of health insurance predict disease severity in patients presenting with cancer of the oral cavity and breast in the United States.

More than 46 million Americans lack health insurance. Many more Americans are underinsured so do not have adequate access to health care. Studies have shown that uninsured adults are less likely than the insured to receive preventive care, to seek care in a timely manner, or to receive recommended treatments. The issue of health insurance and its relationship with disease severity is an important topic in the study of cancer because health insurance is a modifiable factor. The link between oropharyngeal cancer, disease severity and health insurance status has rarely if ever been studied. In breast cancer, this relationship has been reported only in local studies that are now dated. Amy Chen, M.D. and Michael Halpern, M.D., Ph.D. of the American Cancer Society analyzed data from a nationwide cancer database to investigate the relationship between insurance status and disease severity in oropharyngeal and breast cancers.

In what may be the first assessment of the association between insurance status and oropharyngeal cancer, Dr. Chen and co-investigators found that the strongest predictors of advanced disease were health insurance status and type. Compared to patients with private insurance, patients with no insurance were the most likely to be diagnosed with advanced disease, the largest tumors or invasive disease to regional lymph nodes. Patients with public health insurance, particularly Medicaid for low-income families, were also at higher risk for advanced disease, largest tumors, or lymph node involvement. Other factors were associated with more advanced disease at diagnosis, including gender (men were at higher risk), age (younger patients were at higher risk), and treatment facility type (patients who were treated at teaching or research facilities were at higher risk). However, type of health insurance remained the strongest predictor of stage at diagnosis and tumor size.

In their study of breast cancer and insurance status, Dr. Halpern and co-investigators found that uninsured and Medicaid insured patients were almost two and a half times more likely to be diagnosed with advanced disease than those with private insurance. In addition, they found African American and Hispanic patients were significantly more likely than white patients to be diagnosed at a more advanced stage. The authors say several factors probably contribute to the increased risk of disease among the uninsured and Medicaid populations, including fewer sources of regular medical care in general and less use of regular mammography in particular.

In both studies, health insurance strongly predicted disease severity. Authors from both studies recommend increasing access to healthcare and targeting screening programs specifically for the uninsured or underinsured to ameliorate this modifiable prognostic factor in these cancers. "[H]aving a usual primary care clinician, a trusted source of care, also known as a medical home, is a strong predictor of improved preventive care delivery," says an accompanying editorial by Richard C. Wender, M.D., president of the American Cancer Society and chair of the department of family medicine at Thomas Jefferson University. "A primary care medical home plays a vital role in reducing cancer mortality. Individuals who have a regular source of primary care are both more likely to be up to date with cancer screening and more likely to receive timely follow-up and evaluation for abnormal findings on an initial screen." Dr. Wender adds: "Clearly, the issues of adequacy, availability, and affordability of coverage are serious problems that must be addressed collectively as we work to fix what is wrong with our health care system."

###

Articles:

"The Impact of Health Insurance Status on Stage at Diagnosis of Oropharyngeal Cancer," Amy Y. Chen, Nicole M. Schrag, Michael Halpern, Elizabeth M. Ward, CANCER; Published Online: June 11, 2007 (DOI: 10.1002/cncr. 22788); Print Issue Date: July 15, 2007.

"Insurance Status and Stage of Cancer at Diagnosis Among Women With Breast Cancer," Michael T. Halpern, John Bian, Elizabeth M. Ward, Nicole M. Schrag, Amy Y. Chen, CANCER; Published Online: June 11, 2007 (DOI: 10.1002/cncr. 22786); Print Issue Date: July 15, 2007.

Editorial: "The Adequacy of the Access-to-Care Debate: Looking Through the Cancer Lens," Richard C. Wender, CANCER; Published Online: June 11 2007 (DOI: 10.1002/cnc.22787); Print Issue Date: July 15, 2007.

Contact: Amy Molnar
John Wiley & Sons, Inc.
Article URL: http://www.medicalne...hp?newsid=73834

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Save time! Get the latest medical news headlines for your specialist area, in a weekly newsletter e-mail. See http://www.medicalne...newsletters.php for details.

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For my fellow laymen and women -- let me please provide some general introductory information regarding the primary source of evidence -- The American Cancer Society (publishers of The Journal Cancer):

The following definition is provided by The Public Health Encyclopedia from Answers.com:

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American Cancer Society

The American Cancer Society (ACS) is a nationwide community-based health organization dedicated to eliminating cancer as a major health problem. Established in 1913 by a handful of physicians and business people in New York City, the ACS has grown into one of the world's largest voluntary health organizations. It has a staff of 6,000, over 2 million volunteers, and receives financial donations from over 10 million people annually. With assets of over $1 billion and an income of approximately $700 million per year, the society has established ambitious goals for controlling cancer incidence and mortality and improving the quality of life for survivors and their families.

While the ACS is recognized for its unique research programs, which have provided critical support for thirty Nobel laureates, it is also the major nonprofit sponsor of cancer control programs, advocacy efforts, and cancer information delivery systems. The American Cancer Society created a "cancer-conscious public," pioneering research and public programs that reduce mortality through prevention and early detection. ACS created the National Cancer Institute in the 1930s and lobbied for the renewal of the National Cancer Act in 1971. Currently, the ACS operates a 24-hour cancer information telephone line and publishes the widely used "Cancer Facts and Figures."

The ACS consists of a national organization, seventeen individually chartered and incorporated divisions, and local offices in 3,000 communities throughout the country. The national organization is governed by a 267-member volunteer assembly and a 43-member board of directors. The primary staff officer, the chief executive officer, works with the other officers and with volunteer and staff leaders to develop and implement methodologies designed to implement the society's mission.

(SEE ALSO: Cancer)

Bibliography

Ross, W. (1987). Crusade: The Official History of the American Cancer Society. New York: Arbor House.


Here's the first abstract:

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Volume 110, Issue 2 , Pages 395 - 402
Published Online: 11 Jun 2007

Copyright © 2007 American Cancer Society
Original Article
The impact of health insurance status on stage at diagnosis of oropharyngeal cancer 
Amy Y. Chen, MD, MPH 1 2 *, Nicole M. Schrag, MSPH 2, Michael T. Halpern, MD, PhD 2, Elizabeth M. Ward, PhD 2
1Department of Otolaryngology, Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia
2Department of Health Services Research, American Cancer Society, Atlanta, Georgia

email: Amy Y. Chen (amy.chen@emoryhealthcare.org)

*Correspondence to Amy Y. Chen, 1599 Clifton Road NE, Atlanta, GA 30329

See related editorial on pages 231-3 and related original article on pages 403-11, this issue.
Fax: (404) 327-6450

Keywords
Commission on Cancer • disease stage • National Cancer Database • oropharyngeal cancer • uninsured • health disparities • access to care

Abstract

BACKGROUND.
Although patients who have early-stage oropharyngeal cancer can be treated with little impairment of function, the treatment of advanced disease can result in decreased quality of life and mortality. Patients without insurance and with other barriers to access to care may delay seeking medical attention for early symptoms, resulting in more advanced disease at presentation. In this study, the authors examined whether patients who had no insurance or who were covered by Medicaid insurance were more likely to present with advanced oropharyngeal cancer.

METHODS.
In this retrospective cohort study from the National Cancer Database from 1996 to 2003, patients with known insurance status who were diagnosed with invasive oropharyngeal cancer at Commission on Cancer facilities (n = 40,487) were included. Adjusted and unadjusted logistic regression models were used to analyze the likelihood of presenting with more advanced stage disease.

RESULTS.
After controlling for other sociodemographic characteristics, patients with advanced oropharyngeal cancer at diagnosis were more likely to be uninsured (odds ratio [OR], 1.37; 95% confidence interval [95% CI], 1.21-1.25) or covered by Medicaid (OR, 1.31; 95% CI, 1.19-1.46) compared with patients who had private insurance. Similarly, patients were most likely to present with the largest tumors (T4 disease) if they were uninsured (OR, 2.82; 95% CI, 2.46-3.23) or covered by Medicaid (OR, 2.95; 95% CI, 2.63-3.31). They also were more likely to present with the greatest degree of lymph node involvement (N3) if they were uninsured (OR, 2.06; 95% CI, 1.76-2.40) or covered by Medicaid (OR, 1.66; 95% CI, 1.45-1.90).

CONCLUSIONS.
Individuals who lacked insurance or had Medicaid coverage were at the greatest risk for presenting with advanced oropharyngeal cancer. In the current study, the results for the Medicaid group may have been influenced by the postdiagnostic enrollment of uninsured patients. Insurance coverage appeared to be a highly modifiable predictor of cancer stage. The findings indicated that it is important to consider the impact of insurance coverage on disease stage at diagnosis and associated morbidity, mortality, and quality of life. Cancer 2007. © 2007 American Cancer Society.

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Received: 12 February 2007; Accepted: 13 April 2007
Digital Object Identifier (DOI)

10.1002/cncr.22788  About DOI


The second study cited above was also published in the Journal Cancer:

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Cancer
Volume 110, Issue 2 , Pages 403 - 411
Published Online: 11 Jun 2007
Copyright © 2007 American Cancer Society

Original Article
Insurance status and stage of cancer at diagnosis among women with breast cancer 
Michael T. Halpern, MD, PhD *, John Bian, PhD, Elizabeth M. Ward, PhD, Nicole M. Schrag, MSPH, Amy Y. Chen, MD, MPH
Epidemiology and Surveillance Research, American Cancer Society, Atlanta, Georgia

email: Michael T. Halpern (michael.halpern@cancer.org)

*Correspondence to Michael T. Halpern, Strategic Director, Health Services Research, American Cancer Society, 1599 Clifton Road NE, Atlanta, GA 30329-4251

See related editorial on pages 231-3 and related original article on pages 395-402, this issue.
Fax: (404) 327-6450

Keywords
breast neoplasms • outcome assessment • health insurance • health services accessibility • medically uninsured • Medicaid • neoplasm staging • data bases • retrospective studies

Abstract

BACKGROUND
Individuals without medical insurance or with limited insurance are less likely than those with broader insurance coverage to receive preventive services and to seek timely medical care. The authors examined the associations of insurance status with stage at diagnosis among women with breast cancer.

METHODS
This study included women age 40 years who were diagnosed with invasive breast cancer from 1998 to 2003 and who were reported to the National Cancer Data Base. Multivariable logistic regression analyses were used to examine the associations of insurance status with more advanced-stage breast cancer at diagnosis while controlling for other patient characteristics.

RESULTS
Among the 533,715 women with breast cancer who were included in the current analysis, the proportions with advanced-stage (III/IV) cancer at diagnosis ranged from 8% among privately insured patients to 18% among uninsured patients and 19% among Medicaid patients; differences in the proportions of women with advanced-stage cancer were statistically significant (P < .0001). Regression analyses indicated that, compared with privately insured patients, uninsured patients and Medicaid patients had a greater likelihood of diagnosis at stage II (odds ratio [OR], 1.5) or at stages III/IV (OR, 2.4) versus stage I (P < .001). Black and Hispanic patients also were significantly more likely than white patients to be diagnosed at a more advanced stage (P < .001).

CONCLUSIONS
The results from this study provided strong evidence that patients without health insurance or with Medicaid coverage, as well as black and Hispanic patients, were more likely to present with advanced-stage breast cancer. These results are consistent with other reports that have documented less use of preventive services, including mammography, among uninsured women and delays in diagnosis and treatment for black and Hispanic women. Cancer 2007. © 2007 American Cancer Society.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received: 9 March 2007; Revised: 22 March 2007; Accepted: 13 April 2007
Digital Object Identifier (DOI)

10.1002/cncr.22786  About DOI


In addition to these two studies, it seems an editorial report on these two studies will soon be published in the media (also in the Journal Cancer) -- and it's called: The adequacy of the access-to-care debate.

...it seems these are credible data sources that cannot be classified as "propaganda" no matter who you ask.

So the real issue is -- as far as I see things -- is the following: can it be disputed that individuals without private insurance are more or less likely to suffer an earlier death from cancers? And if so, shouldn't we suspect the same from other terminal diseases?

While I may have enjoyed the movie for it's entertainment value, I tend to think we should stick to evidence provided by non-profit cancer researchers rather than waste valuable time speculating elsewhere. This may be the primary reason why we have a global warming problem -- it seems the media is again ignoring the scientists. And that's a big problem as far as I see things (global warming may be an even bigger problem than health care coverage in the US).

However, good news! Live Earth inspires thousands to go green

Take care.

Edit: I've accessed the full text of The adequacy of the access-to-care debate:

Here's a relevant excerpt:

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Published Online: 11 Jun 2007
Copyright © 2007 American Cancer Society


Editorial
The adequacy of the access-to-care debate

Looking through the cancer lens
Richard C. Wender, MD 1 2 *§
1American Cancer Society, Atlanta, Georgia
2Department of Family Medicine, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

email: Richard C. Wender (stephen.finan@cancer.org)

*Correspondence to Richard C. Wender, Department of Family Medicine, Thomas Jefferson University, 833 Chestnut Street, Suite 301, Philadelphia, PA 19107

See referenced original articles on pages 395-402 and 403-11, this issue.
Richard C. Wender is President of the American Cancer Society and Chair of the Department of Family Medicine at Thomas Jefferson University.
§Fax: (215) 955-9158.

Received: 4 April 2007; Accepted: 9 April 2007
Digital Object Identifier (DOI)

10.1002/cncr.22787  About DOI

Article Text

With more than 46 million uninsured Americans,[1] it is not surprising that much of the focus in the current health care reform debate is on increasing the number of individuals with health insurance coverage. Although this is a commendable objective, it is not about numbers alone. The nation's policymakers also must consider the affordability, availability, and especially the adequacy of that coverage.

The American Cancer Society has formally adopted guiding principles to use in evaluating any health insurance reform proposal. Meaningful reform must include available, affordable, and adequate health insurance coverage without further segmenting the insurance market...In their study, Halpern et al observed that women who were diagnosed with breast cancer and were uninsured or enrolled in Medicaid at the time they initiated therapy were from 2.4 to 2.5 times more likely to be diagnosed at stage III or IV disease than women who were enrolled in private health insurance. Women who were diagnosed with more advanced-stage disease experienced lower survival rates, more debilitating treatment outcomes, and greater long-term treatment-related morbidity...Another study presented in this edition of Cancer by Chen et al provides further evidence of this need, demonstrating that individuals with oropharyngeal cancer who are uninsured or who are enrolled in Medicaid are significantly more likely to be diagnosed with advanced disease than patients who have private insurance.[3]..Breast cancer is the second leading cause of cancer mortality among women. ...The studies by Halpern et al. and Chen et al. help to illustrate that an exclusive focus on the uninsured, although it may be fundamental, is not sufficient.[2][3] Adequacy of coverage and availability of appropriate health care services are equally vital.

...

The American Cancer Society, along with our sister advocacy organization, the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, is dedicated to ensuring that primary care, prevention, early detection, and quality care are available to all. Achieving these goals demands health care reform. Framing the health care debate in a way that makes sense for cancer patients, survivors, their caregivers, and the general public will provide a standard by which proposals for reform can be judged. It is time to get this right. Effective solutions to our current crisis must address adequacy and affordability in addition to availability of health care insurance for all.

2 Halpern MT, Bian J, Ward EM, Schrag NM, Chen AY. Insurance status and stage of cancer at diagnosis among women with breast cancer. Cancer. 2007; 110: 403-411. Links 

3 Chen AY, Schrag NM, Halpern M, Ward EM. The impact of health insurance status on stage at diagnosis of oropharyngeal cancer. Cancer. 2007; 110: 395-402. Links 
...


Thoughts or comments?

Edited by adam_kamil, 11 July 2007 - 09:05 PM.


#66 sentrysnipe

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 03:12 AM

It's all your fault!



#67 biknut

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 03:17 AM

I'm afraid we'll never see any real action on insurance reform . A lot of talk, but little action. This is why.

The Democrats could care less about helping out private health insurance, but absolutely love big government programs like National Health Care. The problem is tax rates are already high. Government debt load, and future obligation is so sky high now trying to start a new government program the size of something like National Health Care would be political suicide for them, so they won't do anything.

Then there's the big fat cat Republicans. They don't like big government programs like National Health Care. They would probably be the ones to tackle something like insurance reform if anyone would, but they won't. Big insurance is making billion$ ripping us of with high price premiums. They have million$ to contribute to greedy politicians to maintain the status quo.

This is why I don't think anything is going to change for the better.

#68 oregon

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 03:18 AM

Responding to Adam's post:
Medicaid - for low income. Many low income people are unfortunate to get bad education and bad jobs. Low paid jobs tend to be more dangerous. So exposure to carcinogens increases. Thereby cancer rates also increase.
Medicare - for the elderly. Mostly older people get cancer. I doubt you will often see an 18-year-old with cancer.

#69 doug123

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 04:19 AM

'
Here's a review of SIKCO by one of my all time favorite movie reviewers: A.O. Scott.  I have a tendency to bold parts of articles that I really like, but in this case the whole article would be bold; so I won't do that here. 


The New York Times: News Source

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June 22, 2007
MOVIE REVIEW | 'SICKO'
Open Wide and Say ‘Shame’

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Michael Moore heads to Paris to explore universal health care in the documentary "Sicko."

By A. O. SCOTT

It has become a journalistic cliché and therefore an inevitable part of the prerelease discussion of “Sicko” to refer to Michael Moore as a controversial, polarizing figure. While that description is not necessarily wrong, it strikes me as self-fulfilling (since the controversy usually originates in media reports on how controversial Mr. Moore is) and trivial. Any filmmaker, politically outspoken or not, whose work is worth discussing will be argued about. But in Mr. Moore’s case the arguments are more often about him than about the subjects of his movies.

Some of this is undoubtedly his fault, or at least a byproduct of his style. His regular-guy, happy-warrior personality plays a large part in the movies and in their publicity campaigns, and he has no use for neutrality, balance or objectivity. More than that, his polemical, left-populist manner seems calculated to drive guardians of conventional wisdom bananas. That is because conventional wisdom seems to hold, against much available evidence, that liberalism is an elite ideology, and that the authentic vox populi always comes from the right. Mr. Moore, therefore, must be an oxymoron or a hypocrite of some kind.

So the table has been set for a big brouhaha over “Sicko,” which contends that the American system of private medical insurance is a disaster, and that a state-run system, such as exists nearly everywhere else in the industrialized world, would be better. This argument is illustrated with anecdotes and statistics — terrible stories about Americans denied medical care or forced into bankruptcy to pay for it; grim actuarial data about life expectancy and infant mortality; damning tallies of dollars donated to political campaigns — but it is grounded in a basic philosophical assumption about the proper relationship between a government and its citizens.

Mr. Moore has hardly been shy about sharing his political beliefs, but he has never before made a film that stated his bedrock ideological principles so clearly and accessibly. His earlier films have been morality tales, populated by victims and villains, with himself as the dogged go-between, nodding in sympathy with the downtrodden and then marching off to beard the bad guys in their dens of power and privilege. This method can pay off in prankish comedy or emotional intensity — like any showman, Mr. Moore wants you to laugh and cry — but it can also feel manipulative and simplistic.

In “Sicko,” however, he refrains from hunting down the C.E.O.’s of insurance companies, or from hinting at dark conspiracies against the sick. Concentrating on Americans who have insurance (after a witty, troubling acknowledgment of the millions who don’t), Mr. Moore talks to people who have been ensnared, sometimes fatally, in a for-profit bureaucracy and also to people who have made their livings within the system. The testimony is poignant and also infuriating, and none of it is likely to be surprising to anyone, Republican or Democrat, who has tried to see an out-of-plan specialist or dispute a payment.

If you listen to what the leaders of both political parties are saying, it seems unlikely that the diagnosis offered by “Sicko” will be contested. I haven’t heard many speeches lately boasting about how well our health care system works. In this sense “Sicko” is the least controversial and most broadly appealing of Mr. Moore’s movies. (It is also, perhaps improbably, the funniest and the most tightly edited.) The argument it inspires will mainly be about the nature of the cure, and it is here that Mr. Moore’s contribution will be most provocative and also, therefore, most useful.

“Sicko” is not a fine-grained analysis of policy alternatives. (You can find some of those in a recently published book called “Sick,” by Jonathan Cohn, and also in the wonkier precincts of the political blogosphere.) This film presents, instead, a simple compare-and-contrast exercise. Here is our way, and here is another way, variously applied in Canada, France, Britain and yes, Cuba. The salient difference is that, in those countries, where much of the second half of “Sicko” takes place, the state provides free medical care.

With evident glee (and a bit of theatrical faux-naïveté) Mr. Moore sets out to challenge some widely held American notions about socialized medicine. He finds that British doctors are happy and well paid, that Canadians don’t have to wait very long in emergency rooms, and that the French are not taxed into penury. “What’s your biggest expense after the house and the car?” he asks an upper-middle-class French couple. “Ze feesh,” replies the wife. “Also vegetables.”

Yes, the utopian picture of France in “Sicko” may be overstated, but show me the filmmaker — especially a two-time Cannes prizewinner — who isn’t a Francophile of one kind or another. Mr. Moore’s funny valentine to a country where the government will send someone to a new mother’s house to do laundry and make carrot soup turns out to be as central to his purpose as his chat with Tony Benn, an old lion of Old Labor in Britain. Mr. Benn reads from a pamphlet announcing the creation of the British National Health Service in 1948, and explains it not as an instance of state paternalism but as a triumph of democracy.

More precisely, of social democracy, a phrase that has long seemed foreign to the American political lexicon. Why this has been so is the subject of much scholarship and speculation, but Mr. Moore is less interested in tracing the history of American exceptionalism than in opposing it. He wants us to be more like everybody else. When he plaintively asks, “Who are we?,” he is not really wondering why our traditions of neighborliness and generosity have not found political expression in an expansive system of social welfare. He is insisting that such a system should exist, and also, rather ingeniously, daring his critics to explain why it shouldn’t.

SICKO

Opens today in Manhattan.

Written and directed by Michael Moore; edited by Christopher Seward, Dan Sweitlik and Geoffrey Richman; produced by Mr. Moore and Meghan O’Hara; released by Lionsgate and the Weinstein Company. At the Lincoln Square, 1998 Broadway, at 68th Street. Running time: 123 minutes.


Click here to view video on NYtimes site


Hey, I found another interesting perspective on this film -- here ya go:

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Published on The Cornell Daily Sun (http://cornellsun.com)
Michael Moore's Half Truth
By Ben Birnbaum
Created Aug 21 2007 - 12:00am

Last week, against my better judgment, I went to see Michael Moore’s new movie Sicko, about the evils of the American health care system. And to my surprise, I enjoyed it ... I really enjoyed it. Though I make no secret of my dislike for Moore as a human being and as a political commentator, I cannot deny his talent as a filmmaker. And politics aside, Sicko is one hell of a movie — alternately hilarious and heartbreaking — though misleading at times and one-sided throughout.


Sicko introduces us to several Americans whose lives have been shattered by the American health care system. We meet one uninsured man who accidentally sawed off two of his fingers and was told that it would cost him $60,000 to reattach his middle finger and $12,000 to reattach his ring finger (ever the romantic, he chose the latter). We meet a middle-aged middle-class couple who have been forced to move into their daughter’s basement after their respective medical conditions cost them their house and most everything else they had. And, most disturbing of all, we meet several 9/11 volunteers now suffering a variety of worksite-related injuries that they can’t afford to address (Moore takes them on a boat trip to Cuba — with a priceless stop at Guantanamo Bay — and they receive superb free care from the communist country’s national health service.)

Despite what some of Moore’s conservative enemies will have you believe, (almost) everything in Sicko is true. Nearly 50 million Americans are uninsured; millions more are underinsured. Not surprisingly, the most common causes of personal bankruptcy in America are medical. Among industrialized nations, America has nearly the lowest average life expectancy and nearly the highest infant mortality rate. Overall, according to the World Health Organization, American health care ranks 37th in the world (right below Dominica and Costa Rica, right above Slovenia and Cuba.) And for that health care, the U.S. spends far more per capita than any other country. Other developed nations, it seems, spend less on health care yet provide their citizens with more. If it were all up to President Moore — shiver — America would join them by junking our for-profit private system for a universal national health service.

But there are other facts, ones Moore leaves out of Sicko, that reveal a more complex picture.

As CNN reported in its review of the movie, American patients, despite their complaints, are the most satisfied in the world. American doctors, though (in my opinion) undercompensated relative to American lawyers, are still the best paid in the world. And perhaps most notably, the American pharmaceutical industry, much maligned in Sicko, has produced more lifesaving drugs per capita than any other countries’.


Canada, Britain and France — the socialized models that Moore praises — aren’t perfect, either. For one, citizens of those countries endure longer waiting times for most procedures than do Americans. And the “free health care” they get isn’t free at all. It’s paid for out of their taxes, which for that reason, are far more burdensome than Americans’. One might miss that watching Sicko because it’s mentioned only once, in passing, and not by Moore. But it bears repeating because Sicko is an argument not just for free health care, but free everything (free college, free vacation, free day care, etc.) What begins as an indictment of the American health care system devolves into one long ode to socialism and the welfare state.

Socialism, it’s true, has become a dirty word in American politics. Whereas many mainstream left-wing parties in Europe proudly call themselves “Socialist,” Democrats in this country run away from the label (even faster than they do from the word “liberal”) But there’s a reason for that: Capitalism has served America well, and Americans know it. Despite the undeniable inequality in this country, the average American is still better off financially than the average Canadian, the average Brit or the average Frenchman. And we’ve gotten to that point because the profit motive, relatively unhindered in America, has encouraged companies like Pfizer to make the best drugs, companies like Apple to make the best new gadgets and people like Michael Moore to make the best documentaries. The desire for money may be the root of all evil, but it’s also the root of all prosperity.

None of this changes the fact that American health care is in need of serious reform — we need some form of universal health insurance — but it casts doubt on Moore’s big-government solution. There are other ways. Lawmakers in my home state of Massachusetts, under the unlikely leadership of Republican Governor (and now presidential candidate) Mitt Romney, recently passed a market-friendly universal health care plan that makes private health insurance mandatory (like car insurance) for those who can afford it and subsidizes it for those who can’t. Most employers are required to cover their workers or pay into a fund that helps cover the state’s uninsured. Democratic candidates for president, most notably John Edwards, are proposing similar plans on a national scale.

We must help the 1 in 6 Americans who don’t have health insurance, but we can do it without screwing over the 5 out of 6 who do.


Ben Birnbaum is a senior in the College of Arts and Sciences. He can be contacted at bhb9@c­or­ne­ll.­e­d­u. Infomaniacs Anonymous will appear Tuesdays this semester.

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Source URL:
http://cornellsun.co.....;s-half-truth


Anyways, I saw the 11th hour a couple of days ago, and it was entertaining -- here's a decent review:

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August 17, 2007
Helpful Hints for Saving the Planet

By MANOHLA DARGIS
Published: August 17, 2007

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the environment, blah, blah, blah, melting ice caps. To judge from all the gas-guzzlers still fouling the air and the plastic bottles clogging the dumps, it appears that the news that we are killing ourselves and the world with our greed and garbage hasn’t sunk in. That’s one reason “The 11th Hour,” an unnerving, surprisingly affecting documentary about our environmental calamity, is such essential viewing. It may not change your life, but it may inspire you to recycle that old slogan-button your folks pinned on their dashikis back in the day: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.


The problem looks overwhelming, literally, as demonstrated by the images of overflowing landfills and sickeningly polluted bodies of water that flicker through the movie like damning evidence. Structured in mainstream fiction-film fashion (in other words, like a term paper), it opens with an introduction that presents the case, builds momentum with an absorbing analytical middle section and wraps up with just enough optimism that I didn’t want to run home and stick my head in an energy-efficient oven. No matter how well intentioned, political documentaries that present problems without real-life, real-time, real-people solutions — an 800 number, an address, something — just add to the noise (pollution), becoming another title on some filmmaker’s résumé as well as a temporary salve for the audience’s guilt.

Written and directed by the sisters Leila Conners Petersen and Nadia Conners, and narrated on- and off-camera by Leonardo DiCaprio, who served as one of the producers, “The 11th Hour” attempts to stave off helplessness, and the nihilism that often follows it, mostly by appealing to our reason.

In one interview snippet after another, dozens of scientists, activists, gurus, policy types and even a magical-mushroom guy go through the arguments, present the data and criticize the anti-green faction, putting words to the images that are liberally interspersed between these talking heads like mortar. Every so often, Mr. DiCaprio pops up on screen to interrupt this show and tell, squinting into the camera and pushing the narrative to the next topic.

If your head isn’t lodged in the sand, much of what’s said in the movie will be agonizing and familiar. Gasping children, disappearing animals, gushing oil, billowing smoke, dying lakes, emptying forests, warming weather — the list of ills is numbingly familiar. In the movie’s eye-catching opener, the directors riffle through a veritable catalog of timely snapshots, some obvious (a smoggy skyline), others less so (a human fetus).

Effectively blunt, this sequence provoked a colleague to invoke the name of the avant-garde giant Stan Brakhage, but the truer visual and structural model here is a film like “Koyaanisqatsi,” with its streaming global landscapes. The difference is that the images in “The 11th Hour” are pointedly horrifying, not reassuring, pacific or aestheticized.

That can make it tough to watch, which the directors clearly know. They whip through the pictures and the interviews fast — at times a little too fast — and keep the information flowing as quickly as the visuals. This swift, steady pace means that you receive a lot of bad news from a lot of different sources. The ecologist Brock Dolman explains, “When we started feeding off the fossil fuel cycle, we began living with a death-based cycle.” From there the topic nimbly jumps to climate change, national security (courtesy the former director of the C.I.A., R. James Woolsey), Katrina, asthma and the stunning news from the oceanographer and author Sylvia Earle that “we’ve lost 90 percent of most of the big fish in the sea.”

Yes, it’s bad, but it’s not over yet. Many of those same sober talking heads also argue with equal passion that we can save ourselves, along with the sky above us and the earth below. The capacity for human beings to fight, to rise to the occasion, as Mr. Woolsey notes, invoking America’s rapid, albeit delayed jump into World War II, gives hope where none might seem possible.

It is our astonishing capacity for hope that distinguishes “The 11th Hour” and that speaks so powerfully, in part because it is this all-too-human quality that may finally force us to fight the good fight against the damage we have done and continue to do. As the saying goes, keep hope alive — and if you’re holding this review in your hands, don’t forget to recycle the paper.

“The 11th Hour” is rated PG (Parental guidance suggested). It has freakily scary environmental images.

THE 11TH HOUR

Opens today in New York and Los Angeles.

Written and directed by Leila Conners Petersen and Nadia Conners; narrated by Leonardo DiCaprio; directors of photography, Peter Youngblood Hills and Andrew Rowlands; edited by Pietro Scalia and Luis Alvarez y Alvarez; music by Jean-Pascal Beintus and Eric Avery; production designer, Ms. Conners; produced by Mr. DiCaprio, Ms. Petersen, Chuck Castleberry and Brian Gerber; released by Warner Independent Pictures. Running time: 91 minutes.

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company


Similar to proposed environment reforms, we hear proposals of reform for the US health system.

It seems the white house will be an easy victory for the democrats in '08 due to loss of faith in the claims of the republican party due mostly to the quagmire they've induced in Iraq -- not to mention their obsession with publicizing the personal life of certain presidents to leverage their positions. And that may be a problem, because I don't necessarily believe one-hundred percent in every policy the democrats revealed.

However, in the meantime -- stay tuned. I may have a possible solution to the health care problem.

Take care.

#70 Live Forever

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 05:37 PM

As mentioned in another thread, John Stossel will be doing a 20/20 show on the health care system and the things that Moore got wrong. (and how a more capitalistic system would actually be better)

I am guessing that he will bring up many of the same things that he brought up on the blog entry he made right after the movie came out.

In any event, I am looking forward to hearing the other side of the coin, because Moore makes a fairly compelling argument that the system is broken, but not on how to fix it. (imo)

#71 Mind

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 05:45 PM

because Moore makes a fairly compelling argument that the system is broken, but not on how to fix it.


I think broken is the wrong term. Millions of people go to hospitals in the U.S. every year and get the treatment they need or desire and they pay for it with private insurance, employer sponsored insurance, or out of their pocket. Many times more people get the treatment they need than those who do not. I think "broken" is a political/propoganda term that the advocates of Socialized Health Care want everyone to repeat. The current system has flaws that should be corrected. That's tough work and it isn't a good political slogan so the fixes do not get any traction.

#72 Live Forever

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 06:09 PM

Yes, you are right Mind. Certain parts of it are broken, and certain parts are working wonderfully. Overall, though (in comparison to other nations) it is a relatively underachieving system.

#73 Mind

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 06:15 PM

Nate, thanks for the info on Stossel's upcoming report!

#74 Futurist1000

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 11:55 PM

John Stossel is the man. He is probably one of the few people in the media who understands why the market works.

Why the U.S. Ranks Low on WHO's Health-Care Study

The WHO judged a country's quality of health on life expectancy. But that's a lousy measure of a health-care system. Many things that cause premature death have nothing do with medical care. We have far more fatal transportation accidents than other countries. That's not a health-care problem.

Similarly, our homicide rate is 10 times higher than in the U.K., eight times higher than in France, and five times greater than in Canada.

When you adjust for these "fatal injury" rates, U.S. life expectancy is actually higher than in nearly every other industrialized nation.

Diet and lack of exercise also bring down average life expectancy.


Another reason the U.S. didn't score high in the WHO rankings is that we are less socialistic than other nations. What has that got to do with the quality of health care? For the authors of the study, it's crucial. The WHO judged countries not on the absolute quality of health care, but on how "fairly" health care of any quality is "distributed." The problem here is obvious. By that criterion, a country with high-quality care overall but "unequal distribution" would rank below a country with lower quality care but equal distribution.

It's when this so-called "fairness," a highly subjective standard, is factored in that the U.S. scores go south.


John Stossel: Health Insurance Isn't All It's Cracked Up to Be

Anyway, insurance is a terrible way to pay for things. It burdens us with paperwork, invites cheating and, worst of all, creates a moral hazard that distorts incentives. It raises costs by insulating consumers from medicine's real prices. Suppose you had grocery insurance. With your employer paying 80 percent of the bill, you would fill the cart with lobster and filet mignon. Everything would cost more because supermarkets would stop running sales. Why should they, when their customers barely care about the price? Suppose everyone had transportation insurance. The roads would be crowded with Mercedes. Why buy a Chevy if your employer pays? People have gotten so used to having "other" people pay for most of our health care that we routinely ask for insurance with low or no deductibles. This is another bad idea. Suppose car insurance worked that way. Every time you got a little dent or the paint faded, or every time you buy gas or change the oil, you'd fill out endless forms and wait for reimbursement from your insurance company. Gas prices would quickly rise because service stations would know that you no longer care about the price. You'd become more wasteful: jackrabbit starts, speeding, wasting gas. Who cares? You are only paying 20 percent or less of the bill.


Insurance invites waste. That's a reason health care costs so much, and is often so consumer-unfriendly. In the few areas where there are free markets in health care -- such as cosmetic medicine and Lasik eye surgery -- customer service is great, and prices continue to drop.



#75 niner

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 03:56 AM

Anyway, insurance is a terrible way to pay for things.

Sure, but health care is not like buying groceries. Occasionally catastrophic events come along; that is really what you should have insurance for. My recent 6 week hospital stay came to $587,000.00, according to the bill they sent me. That's what it would have cost me if I didn't have insurance. However, the insurance company paid them a negotiated rate of $120,000.00, and that was that. One might consider having only catastrophic coverage, i.e. a really huge deductible, but unless everyone did this, the advantages of competition would not occur, and you would pay absurd rates for all the small things. The negotiated rates also apply at the low end of the scale, and without benefit of those, you just get killed. I'll note that competition IS occurring now, in the form of the negotiated rates. Rising copays are probably starting to suppress some needless healthcare, though certainly not all of it. Does Stossel have a plan that improves upon the present situation? Maybe what we need is a healthcare buying cooperative; sort of a Costco for healthcare, along with catastrophic insurance coverage.

#76 Futurist1000

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:40 AM

You would still have insurance, but it would only be for catastrophes. Regular visits, most prescriptions, dental appointments would be paid out of pocket. In the same manner that car insurance only covers major accidents. Car insurance doesn't cover gas, car cleaning, oil, tires etc. It only covers accidents. Likewise healthcare should only cover major events (heart attack, cancer, etc.). This would make healthcare costs decrease overall.

Your bill is probably high because the market is not capitalistic. If it was capitalistic it would likely be much cheaper.

#77 Futurist1000

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 03:14 PM

Looking into it, I have realized that the WHO healthcare ranking is totally useless. It is a poor measure of a nation's healthcare system.

World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).

Responsiveness: The nations with the most responsive health systems are the United States, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Germany, Japan, Canada, Norway, Netherlands and Sweden. The reason these are all advanced industrial nations is that a number of the elements of responsiveness depend strongly on the availability of resources. In addition, many of these countries were the first to begin addressing the responsiveness of their health systems to people's needs.


So here the U.S. ranks NUMBER ONE.

Fairness of financial contribution: When WHO measured the fairness of financial contribution to health systems, countries lined up differently. The measurement is based on the fraction of a household's capacity to spend (income minus food expenditure) that goes on health care (including tax payments, social insurance, private insurance and out of pocket payments). Colombia was the top-rated country in this category, followed by Luxembourg, Belgium, Djibouti, Denmark, Ireland, Germany, Norway, Japan and Finland.
Colombia achieved top rank because someone with a low income might pay the equivalent of one dollar per year for health care, while a high- income individual pays 7.6 dollars.


Ok Columbia is first on this measure and Djibouti is fourth? This has got to be the most idiotic measurement of healthcare. Who the hell would go to Columbia or Djibouti for healthcare? How do you measure "Fairness of financial contribution" and who decides what is fair. On this measure, the U.S. ranks 54-55.

Overall Level of Health: A good health system, above all, contributes to good health. To assess overall population health and thus to judge how well the objective of good health is being achieved, WHO has chosen to use the measure of disability- adjusted life expectancy (DALE). This has the advantage of being directly comparable to life expectancy and is readily compared across populations. The report provides estimates for all countries of disability- adjusted life expectancy. DALE is estimated to equal or exceed 70 years in 24 countries, and 60 years in over half the Member States of WHO. At the other extreme are 32 countries where disability- adjusted life expectancy is estimated to be less than 40 years. Many of these are countries characterised by major epidemics of HIV/ AIDS, among other causes.


This possibly could be an indicator of the healthcare system. However, I think people's lifestyles choices are more likely the culprit. Americans are more likely to have unhealthy lifestyles than other countries. Even if we were to take this as a true indicator of the U.S. healthcare system, the U.S. ranks 29th, not 37th.
Healthy life expectancy at birth Males

I just looked at the actual WHO ranking of the U.S. for this specific indicator. The US ranks 24th on this measure. See my post below for another reason why this ranking might be so low.

Distribution of Health in the Populations: It is not sufficient to protect or improve the average health of the population, if - at the same time - inequality worsens or remains high because the gain accrues disproportionately to those already enjoying better health. The health system also has the responsibility to try to reduce inequalities by prioritizing actions to improve the health of the worse-off, wherever these inequalities are caused by conditions amenable to intervention. The objective of good health is really twofold: the best attainable average level – goodness – and the smallest feasible differences among individuals and groups – fairness. A gain in either one of these, with no change in the other, constitutes an improvement.


This is just plain communism. Why does the health system have a responsiblity to reduce inequalities? It doesn't and it can't. Studies have shown that universal healthcare does not decrease health inequalities. Who is to judge what is the "smallest feasible difference among individuals" and what does "fairness" mean. I bet they judged it on people's acess to healthcare but not outcomes. They can arbitrarily set the criteria for what is a "fair" system. Their can be a high level of inequality in a system, but people can get better healthcare overall. Thus this is a useless measure of health.

Distribution of Financing: There are good and bad ways to raise the resources for a health system, but they are more or less good primarily as they affect how fairly the financial burden is shared.


A fair distribution of healthcare financing health care (whether the burden of health costs is fairly distributed based on ability to pay, so that everyone is equally protected from the financial risks of illness)


Again, a stupid measure of healthcare. Who is to say what is a fair "sharing" of financial burden. This again would be an arbitrary measure. The second quote above is what the criteria they actually used. Note the wording, "distributed based on ability to pay". Hmmm that sure sounds like "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

Edited by hrc579, 06 September 2007 - 01:00 AM.


#78 Live Forever

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:34 PM

Well, it is the best ranking out there to my knowledge. If you aren't going to compare based on death rate and stuff like that like they do, you have to come up with something else to compare on.

If you can find another one that compares on different stuff and you think is more accurate, let us know.

#79 Futurist1000

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 05:10 PM

Another thing for health is that Hispanics and Asians have a HIGHER life expectancy than whites, while blacks have a significantly lower life expectancy. This may be one of the reasons that our life expectancy overall is lower. The usual reasons given for the health inequalities between races such as poverty, lack of insurance and racism don't make any sense. In california hipanics are more likely to be uninsured, yet they have a higher life expectancy than whites. Its possible that their are differences in lifestyle choices, but also there may be different propensities of certain groups to get diseases like diabetes or heart problems.

Life Expectancy Disparity Between Whites, Blacks In California Persists, Report Says

Asian men in California lived to an average age of 80, and Asian women lived to an average age of 85, with common causes of death that included heart disease, cancer, strokes and aneurysms;


Hispanic men in California lived to an average age of 77, and Hispanic women lived to an average age of 83, with common causes of death that included heart disease, cancer and diabetes;


White men in California lived to an average age of 75, and white women lived to an average age of 80, with common causes of death that included heart disease and cancer; and


Black men in California lived to an average age of 68, and black women lived to an average age of 75, with common causes of death that included heart disease and cancer.


The uninsured rates show NO relationship with the average life expectancy.

Chapter 3: Access and Utilization

In California in 2003.
26.4% of hispanic were uninsured

7.5% of non-hispanic whites were uninsured

10.4% of African Americans were uninsured

11.4% of Asians were uninsured.

Interestingly Japan is rated number one by the WHO in the disability adjusted lifespan. Coincidentally Asians in the U.S. have the highest lifespan.

Hispanics have a slightly lower infant mortality overall than whites, while blacks have a significantly higher infant mortality. This brings down the U.S. average

Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Infant Mortality Rates

Racial disparity in IMRs has not been explained fully by differences in socioeconomic status. Black infants born to college-educated parents have higher IMRs than white infants born to parents of similar educational background; this difference is attributed to a higher rate of very low birthweight.


Despite higher poverty and lower education rates, Hispanic infants have higher birthweights and their IMRs approximate those of white infants. This finding is consistent with previous studies [9] and contradicts common assumptions about poor, underserved minority groups. Cultural practices, family support, selective migration, diet, and genetic heritage are possible contributing factors [9]. Furthermore, U.S. Hispanics are a heterogeneous group, and IMRs are higher among Puerto Rican infants [10]. In Philadelphia, 79% of Hispanic births were born to Puerto Rican mothers, possibly explaining the higher IMR in that city.


Thus universal healthcare may not be able to improve these indicators.

Edited by hrc579, 06 September 2007 - 09:12 PM.


#80 Futurist1000

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 01:49 AM

It appears that the WHO didn't even weight the 5 criteria they used equally. Apparently in their judgement, "fairness" is more important than responsiveness.

3/5 categories are all based on inequalities. So they arbitrarily make 3 out of 5 categories on the nearly the exact same thing.

How much you want to bet they weighted those categories more than "responsiveness" and "life expectancy"?

In the "responsiveness" and "life expectancy" categores, the U.S. ranked 1st and 24th respectively. Some simple math 1 + 24 equals 25 divided by 2 is 12.5. Will round that number up to get an average ranking of 13 (for simplicity).

To get an overall average of 37 that means that the U.S. would have to rank 53 on the other 3 categories (this is assuming equal weighting).

53 places it behind other countries on "fairness" not necessarily on the actual quality of healthcare.

What a poor report. Seriously, who wrote this garbage, Karl Marx? This report is pure propaganda, plain and simple. They should have named the report "The Communist Manifesto". That title would have been more accurate.

#81 Live Forever

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 02:21 AM

Again, show me something better. The WHO might not be great, but if you think that their rankings of death rates and things are bad, then find a better ranking system. (or create one yourself I guess)

#82 Futurist1000

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 03:27 AM

Again, show me something better. The WHO might not be great, but if you think that their rankings of death rates and things are bad, then find a better ranking system. (or create one yourself I guess)


That would be a logical fallacy. WHO wins by default, and you automatically put the burden on the other person to come up with something better. Basically you are saying that it doesn't matter whether the WHO report is right or wrong, accurate or inaccurate, as long as it exists it should be held up as the standard.

I'm not sure of the specifc name of which logical fallacy it is. Maybe this?
Burden of Proof

List of Logical Fallacies

I'm actually just learning about some of these logical fallacies, I think it is important stuff.

I would say that the WHO report suffers from this logical fallacy: Correlation does not imply causation

It probably has a lot of other logical fallacies too.

Michael Moore's movie is littered with logical fallacies and Propaganda

I'm sure there are logical fallacies in my posts too. I'm learning more about specific logical fallacies, so I can better distinguish facts from propaganda. Hopefully I can improve my own writing skills.

Edited by hrc579, 06 September 2007 - 03:48 AM.


#83 Live Forever

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 04:33 AM

I am not saying they win by default. I am just saying they are the only thing I have seen. Perhaps it is a logical fallacy on my part, but I was just asking for another ranking system. (I have searched in vein and not found any) As I have stated I am a libertarian and do not like Moore's argument overall, and just thought that if there was another ranking system, it might alleviate mine (and I assume others) worry that the US is most definitely not at the top.

I am happy that you are bringing up the correlation vs causation argument as it is one that I often use. (as evidenced by the many posts I have made in the past) However, I do not believe (at least from my study of it) that the WHO ranking suffers from this. I do think that they might suffer from subjective rankings in certain areas, or ranking certain things too high or too low, but overall they are the only ranking system I have seen (as I am sure is the case with most people), hence my request for another ranking system. To make an effective argument, it would seem plausible to offer up another ranking system that does things correctly (or at least more correctly) in your eyes.

I am sorry if I am seeming like a pain in the ass (I assure you I am not trying to be), but like all arguments, you must give the other side to effectively argue your case. To only argue against something without providing the opposing viewpoint (in this case you are arguing against a ranking system, so you should give an alternative ranking system) is quite futile. If I was a bit more callous I would compare it to those arguing against evolution without providing a solid alternative or those arguing against any scientific field without providing an alternative; You must provide some type of alternative is all I am saying.

By the way, as I have stated multiple times, I agree that Moore is pushing the wrong agenda. (socialism as opposed to libertarianism) I also happen to think that the US system is broken (albeit not in the way Moore is advocating) and requires fixing.

#84 Futurist1000

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 02:45 PM

I understand what your saying Live Forever. I don't want to come across as a know it all on the logical fallacies thing, because I know very little about them.

I'm just amazed at how many people in the media seem to make some of these common logical fallacies.

Anyway, here's a few other (possibly better in my opinon) indicators of Americans healthcare system. I aim to please.

Europe's Cancer Survival Is Up, But UK Lagging, New Study

For patients diagnosed with solid tumours in 2000 to 2002, the survival rate was lower in Europe than the USA. 5 year survival for all cancers in the USA was 66.3 per cent for men and 62.9 per cent for women. These figures are significantly better than the European cancer survival rates for the same period: 47.3 per cent for men and 55.8 per cent for women.


Science Pioneer Cautions Europe on Declining Medical Innovation

The evidence is unmistakable: Europe's pharmaceutical industry is in the midst of a long and steady decline, and Europe's bio–tech industry is lagging significantly behind its American counterpart. What is also clear—but far more controversial—is that by adopting certain aspects of the American R&D system, Europeans could regain their innovative and competitive edge.
Some of the key ingredients of America's thriving biopharmaceutical sector: a system of free pricing of drugs (almost inconceivable in Europe); great dynamism in the bio–tech sector due to a pool of active venture capital; direct–to–consumer advertising of prescription drugs; flexible labor laws and an entrepreneurial spirit; an active and often symbiotic connection between academic scientists and private industry; and a limited role of the state in the R&D process, with private R&D preferred over the large–scale sponsoring of research by the state
Ultimately, lost or constrained innovation impacts public health. Access to new drugs, for instance, is far superior for American consumers than European ones. For cancer patients, access to new drugs is crucial: a report by the Swedish Karolinska Institute, published in the Annals of Oncology, found that "The United States has been the country of first launch for close to half of the oncology drugs brought to the market in the past 11 years." The authors of the report observe that "Nearly half of the observed improvement in the 2–year cancer survival rate between 1992 and 2000 at 50 US cancer centers could be attributed to the use of new cancer drugs," evidence that America's embrace of new medicines translates into saved human lives.


Universal Healthcare reduces positive patient outcomes and stifles innovation.

Just for thought, think of how many lives the U.S. has saved in the world due to all of the medical technology and innovations that we have created. I bet the number is in the millions. These other countries get good medicine off of the backs of American consumers. They don't have to pay as much and are getting a free ride because of price controls.

It seems strange that the WHO didn't take into account INNOVATION at all. Gee maybe because the U.S. would have been number ONE on that measure. To me that seems like it would be a more important measure than "fairness". It's like the U.S. creates all of the medical technology, but isn't fair about its distribution. Aww gee the U.S. isn't fair boohoo. In their report, the WHO failes to take into account every single technology the U.S. has created. Without good medical technology, who cares how fair your system is.

It's sad to think how much further medical technology would have advanced if all of these countries hadn't instituted a universal healthcare plan.

Edited by hrc579, 06 September 2007 - 09:09 PM.


#85 Futurist1000

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 10:12 PM

Poor U.S. Scores in Health Care Don’t Measure Nobels and Innovation

But the American health care system may be performing better than it seems at first glance. When it comes to medical innovation, the United States is the world leader. In the last 10 years, for instance, 12 Nobel Prizes in medicine have gone to American-born scientists working in the United States, 3 have gone to foreign-born scientists working in the United States, and just 7 have gone to researchers outside the country.


The six most important medical innovations of the last 25 years, according to a 2001 poll of physicians, were magnetic resonance imaging and computed tomography (CT scan); ACE inhibitors, used in the treatment of hypertension and congestive heart failure; balloon angioplasty; statins to lower cholesterol levels; mammography; and coronary artery bypass grafts. Balloon angioplasty came from Europe, four innovations on the list were developed in American hospitals or by American companies (although statins were based on earlier Japanese research), and mammography was first developed in Germany and then improved in the United States. Even when the initial research is done overseas, the American system leads in converting new ideas into workable commercial technologies.


In real terms, spending on American biomedical research has doubled since 1994. By 2003, spending was up to $94.3 billion (there is no comparable number for Europe), with 57 percent of that coming from private industry. The National Institutes of Health’s current annual research budget is $28 billion, All European Union governments, in contrast, spent $3.7 billion in 2000, and since that time, Europe has not narrowed the research and development gap. America spends more on research and development over all and on drugs in particular, even though the United States has a smaller population than the core European Union countries.


From 1989 to 2002, four times as much money was invested in private biotechnology companies in America than in Europe. Dr. Boehm argues that the research environment in the United States, compared with Europe, is wealthier, more competitive, more meritocratic and more tolerant of waste and chaos. He argues that these features lead to more medical discoveries. About 400,000 European researchers are living in the United States, usually for superior financial compensation and research facilities.  Medical innovations improve health and life expectancy in all wealthy countries, not just in the United States.


The gains from medical innovations are high. For instance, increases in life expectancy resulting from better treatment of cardiovascular disease from 1970 to 1990 have been conservatively estimated as bringing benefits worth more than $500 billion a year. And that is just for the United States


The American health care system, high expenditures and all, is driving innovation for the entire world.



#86 Futurist1000

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 10:42 PM

I just found this.

Don't Fall Prey to Propaganda: Life Expectancy and Infant Mortality are Unreliable Measures for Comparing the U.S. Health Care System to Others

More robust statistical analysis confirms that health care spending is not related to life expectancy. Studies of multiple countries using regression analysis found no significant relationship between life expectancy and the number of physicians and hospital beds per 100,000 population or health care expenditures as a percentage of GDP. Rather, life expectancy was associated with factors such as sanitation, clean water, income, and literacy rate.8 A recent study examined cross-national data from 1980 to 1998. Although the regression model used initially found an association between health care expenditure and life expectancy, that association was no longer significant when gross domestic product (GDP) per capita was added to the model.9 Indeed, GDP per capita is one of the more consistent predictors of life expectancy.


et the United States has the highest GDP per capita in the world, so why does it have a life expectancy lower than most of the industrialized world? The primary reason is that the U.S. is ethnically a far more diverse nation than most other industrialized nations. Factors associated with different ethnic backgrounds - culture, diet, etc. - can have a substantial impact on life expectancy. Comparisons of distinct ethnic populations in the U.S. with their country of origin find similar rates of life expectancy. For example, Japanese-Americans have an average life expectancy similar to that of Japanese.10


A good deal of the lower life expectancy rate in the U.S. is accounted for by the difference in life expectancy of African-Americans versus other populations in the United States. Life expectancy for African-Americans is about 72.3 years, while for whites it is about 77.7 years.11 What accounts for the difference? Numerous scholars have investigated this question.12 The most prevalent explanations are differences in income and personal risk factors. One study found that about one-third of the difference between white and African-American life expectancies in the United States was accounted for by income; another third was accounted for by personal risk factors such as obesity, blood pressure, alcohol intake, diabetes, cholesterol concentration, and smoking and the final third was due to unexplained factors.13 Another study found that much of the disparity was due to higher rates of HIV, diabetes and hypertension among African Americans.14 Even studies that suggest the health care system may have some effect on the disparity still emphasize the importance of factors such as income, education, and social environment.15


Hopefully such difficulties can be resolved as the project progresses. In the meantime, policymakers, pundits and reporters should stop referring to life expectancy and infant mortality as meaningful comparative measures of health care systems.


Japan was ranked number one by the WHO in the disability expected lifespan and Japanese-Americans have a life expectancy similar to them.

Here again we can see why the WHO report falls into the "correlation doesn't prove causation" logical fallacy trap.

The question is why did the WHO use measures in their report that have been PROVEN to have NO correlation with healthcare?

#87 AaronCW

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 11:25 PM

Thank you for digging up all of this info hrc579, it's very interesting and helpful.

I submit that this thread should be filed under 'Threats to Life'. It's imperative for everyone here devoted to the cause of developing innovative (and likely expensive) technologies in order to circumvent aging understand what a massive threat the socialization of medicine poses. There is no other event that I can conceive of (besides a world war, or nuclear holocaust) that would further hinder the achievement of these goals within our lifetime.

#88 Live Forever

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 02:58 AM

Stossel did a short (about 5 minute) segment tonight on 20/20, and will be doing a full hour long episode on health care next Friday, challenging all of the claims that Moore made in his movie. Should be interesting!

#89 biknut

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:30 PM

Gore: Universal Health Care a 'Right'
Nobel Peace Prize winner posts video over weekend calling for health care as an American right.


By Genevieve Ebel
Business & Media Institute
10/16/2007 12:44:07 PM

Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore’s celebration weekend in Tennessee wasn’t all dinner and dancing.

The former vice president managed to find time this past weekend to post a series of videos on his peer-to-peer video sharing site, Current.tv – including one calling for “government-funded” health care. Gore is chairman of Current.tv.

In a setting reminiscent of a bored college student making a video in his dorm room, Gore is shown proclaiming that healthcare in America “ought to be a matter of right,” addressing what he thinks to be an “immoral” healthcare situation.

“I strongly support universal single-payer government-provided or government-funded health care” droned a languid Gore in his video, now also listed under the title ‘Gore Goes SiCKO’ on Michael Moore’s Web site.

Moore has used his movie to promote a crusade to mandate universal care. The Business & Media Institute revealed in a June article the flaws in Moore’s ‘SiCKO’ and the gushing media coverage it had received from the media.

Gore puts that media support to shame. Since the release of his documentary “An Inconvenient Truth,” in early 2006, media coverage has given him almost rock star status. On October 10, BMI warned of Gore’s lack of willingness to enter into a debate on global warming. Also, in an October 12 article, BMI detailed the extent to which the success Gore has enjoyed has been a result of media endorsement.

Though still not a 2008 Presidential candidate, Gore’s other two videos focused on the recent hot topics of troop withdrawal and increased protection for Americans against invasion of privacy by the Executive Branch.

All three of the former vice president’s recent videos, averaging around a minute each, appear to have been posted by Gore himself and serve as further examples of just how far left his positions are.

http://www.businessa...1016123925.aspx

#90 abilash81

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:18 PM

hey jones the per capita calculation is now became un wanted because obama has come to power so we will find some thing good too us americans and all the best for getting free insurance for all in the near future

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Edited by abilash81, 12 November 2008 - 07:19 PM.





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