57 replies to this topic

[jackj]

Ok, well i've got a batch coming so i'll let you know how it goes.

My experience is that i'm almost hyper-sensitive any pretty much anything so it should be interesting regardless. I'm thinking of trying it in this combo. lecithin, pirac, Mucuna and 5htp! to start with. I will probably vary the dose in order to get things pumping and hopefully my body with regulate it from there. Deprenyl should be here in a week or two so i will try after as well..

[sentinel]

Unlucid

You may have more background in Nootropics and supplements than your post (ings) suggest and it's your brain, but I would do a lot more reading through Imminst before launching into all those that you list or at least give each of them 4 weeks to have an effect (or not) so you can establish which are having a positive effect or otherwise.

sentinel.

[jackj]

Yeah good idea, i might lay off the 5htp for now as i've had it in the past and it does have a good effect but it does leave me a bit day dreamy/foggy from memory so how that will combine might be difficult to discern.

And yes i was contemplating after posting and perhaps its a bit much for me all at once. At the moment i'm going to wind the pirac down to nothing and see how i go for a week or two and then give it another shot.

Personally (this moment right now ) i'm starting to lean towards the "perhaps they are not for me side" as while it helps me get work done no end it always seems excentuate personality traits (badly), now and then :(

My background is not medical at all and what i know is from lurking on this forum and others and anything i say should not be taken as gospel (for all the lurkers)

Cheers.

[medievil]

do not take L-Dopa, it extends the lifespan of mice when giving to the older ones, to yound ones it shortens their lifespan
it also has a big side effect profile

kotke, why are you even taking sint johns worth, from what i've seen its not very effective, i would try resveratrol wich has loads of benefits, and inhibits the reuptake of serotonin and noradrenalin (i tought you had ADD) add in deprenyl for dopamin and you optimize all neurotransmitters

[jackj]

I'm not a mouse!

In all honesty I like to see what feelings they induce good or bad. If i don't like it i won't take it all. I still have half a pack of Hydergine with me. Personally i'm not sure how people can tolerate it or what its good for other than synthesizing with pirac (perhaps). Alone, i find it evil and combined for that matter.

What kind of side effects are you talking about btw? and thanks for the heads up.

[rebuild101]

What kind of side effects are you talking about btw? and thanks for the heads up.

This might help:

http://en.wikipedia....Adverse_effects

[kottke]

do not take L-Dopa, it extends the lifespan of mice when giving to the older ones, to yound ones it shortens their lifespan
it also has a big side effect profile

kotke, why are you even taking sint johns worth, from what i've seen its not very effective, i would try resveratrol wich has loads of benefits, and inhibits the reuptake of serotonin and noradrenalin (i tought you had ADD) add in deprenyl for dopamin and you optimize all neurotransmitters

medievil: I do have ADHD, but St Johns Wort works on numerous neurotransmitters other than serotonin. As you can see here dopamine is increased a substantial amount in the prefrontal cortex by SJW. Also, the SJW i have is research grade and is the exact same kind used in almost all of the studies (especially the positive ones).

If you go to the regimen section you will see that i also supplement with resveratrol 100mgs a day.

To draw back some history i am a recovered drug user and need a little more stimulation than the average person at the moment. SJW may not always be in my regimen but for now its definitely staying.

unlucid: Mucuna Pruiriens across the board looks to only really be effective with people that have parkinsonism. I have yet to find anyone use it longterm and i find combining it with deprenyl and 5htp is asking for trouble. Look at some other peoples regimens in here and get some ideas. Maybe try out my regimen as a starting point



I just freaking found about half a bottle of 5mgs Juprenil cut in half! It was in my backpack i took to europe last summer and i dont know how the hell i missed it but they were in there. They are cut unevenly, however, so i think i may just toss them and go with the liquid 1mg a day.

[jubai]

I took oral Deprenyl at 1mg *3 times a week for a while, and had good results on mood/motivation

I will probably start taking it again soon

Be careful, as females taking birth control pills should not take it, as it can enhance bioavaibility by up to 20 times (got no link, but saw that a while ago)

This bit of information was not mentionned in most Deprenyl articles, and I learned in the hard way when my gf went into an hypertensive crisis with 1 drop.

[jackj]

Ok well the order of Mucuna Pruriens came in VERY quick compared to the other supplier of deprenyl.

I had the day off and had two caps on an empty stomach and no other supps. (4 max a day apparently). I really didnt find it enjoyable! While i did feel "good" i found myself standing or looking at things kinda spaced out, i couldn't connect thoughts or ideas, just intense thoughts then onto something else. I also felt really self aware and seemed to have a feeling that i was connecting with people when talking to them.. Not sure how normal this is but i'm not used to that at all, especially when you speak to someone who doesn't seem interested. Not sure if i'll be taking it during work and perhaps leave it for weekend. Not sure what its like in a crowd either. If anything anxiety was higher though, yet not really a problem. To be honest i thought it felt like what it might be to be a ditzy bimbo.

Next please!

[jackj]

That effect you feel unlucid sounds like a mild increase in dopamine to me.

I used to take 4 capsules of mucuna by Solaray (Dopabean) three times a day. This product says on the label that it contains 20% catecolamines. I found this product to be the most effective compared to Shalahian's and Himalayian Brand.

But I also was taking DLPA with the mucuna. I think mucuna and DLPA work well together. But this process can take some time.

But if you feel some change from that herb I think that may be a good sign that your dopamine levels are low. It usually takes longer with an herb to see an effect. Maybe you should try some more DLPA or more DLPA to see if that helps any.

But you said you found 5htp makes you groggy in the morning. I would get the intention tremors from taking too much 5htp. I get plenty of movement problems from my low dopamine levels. I am surprised others here don't have movement problems like I do. I lost the fine motor skills in my hands a few times. That was an interesting experience. Dopamine plays a role in movement and I have a couple of different movement problems.

I think dopamine can have three types of symptoms; those that involve movement, involve pleasure and involve motivation. I get all three types of symptoms.

I think serotonin and dopamine need to be balanced. I take 5htp at night and take the DLPA during the day. I would suggest you consider 5htp at night if you feel yourself getting irritiable on the mucuna and DLPA.

Interesting that you bring up movement. Yesterday i noticed (twice) that i caught something i had dropped. Not just a normal fumble either the item feel out of my hand and bounced off something and i still caught it without thinking! Now normally i'm not accident prone like this and i am fairly co-ordinated but even these two events made me think due to the fact their fall was not natural. Coincidence perhaps or ponderous amusing for my fascinated brain?? Not sure if its reaction time or not but i will definitely watch for it in the future.

Today I just took one cap at work. I didn't feel awe of small things but i did notice it slightly early into the dose. I might do one a day for a week or so. The hope is that my body might pickup on this and start adjusting normally because yeah something is missing. Its interesting to feel this way towards people, for me anyway.

No notice of increased motivation though, maybe sexual but who knows, im not that old yet.

I did a quick google for DLPA and notice its a natural anti pain thing... how do you feel this works with l-dopa? perhaps we should pm dont want to steal a deprenyl thread.

Have you had experience with deprenyl??

Edited by unlucid, 26 June 2007 - 01:27 PM.

[lynx]

liquid is usually 1mg/drop

[efosse]

I am just skimming this thread... so pardon if this has already been mentioned. But if you take deprenyl (i.e., selegiline) you MUST have food restrictions at certain doses. Combined with tyraine (sp?) it can lead to a sudden spike in blood pressure which result in stroke, heart attack, or death. Not a good thing.

However, there is a selegiline patch available. At the lowest dose the patch does not seem to require food restrictions.

[odeja]

you MUST have food restrictions at certain doses.

"Certain doses" being those above 10mg daily, with food restrictions being more and more important the higher you go.

This has nothing to do with food restrictions, but: I'd advise anyone to start at 0.5mg, but that's a wholly personal quirk of mine, and it may be age-bound. The unprofessional opinion of... an opinionated person. And I may have been foolish in taking it seeing as how I have an anxious streak (does this matter?). I got a rollercoaster ride in hell from taking 5mg. I'm biased... But still curious to have another go at it; trying a regimen of 0.5mg a few times a week or some such.

Edited by odeja, 02 August 2007 - 07:58 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

Just to weigh in on my most recent impressions of deprenyl -- 5mg daily for any length of time turns me into a huge a**hole. I become irritable, disagreeable, and intolerant of anything even slightly bothersome. Based on my experience, I have begun to seriously question the utility of deprenyl as an anti-depressant at sub MAO-A inhibiting doses. A switch to bupropion SR at 150mg each morning has given me the motivational / mental energy boost I was looking for without the PMS symptoms.

[Shepard]

Just to weigh in on my most recent impressions of deprenyl -- 5mg daily for any length of time turns me into a huge a**hole.

I think I posted my experience with deprenyl before, I essentially floated above the ground and threw lightning bolts at everyone.

[sentinel]

Funk, was that 5mg of the liquid as discussed earlier or did you get round to crunching up the pills for sublingual/buccal use? If the buccal delivery is that much more pronounced than normal oral/pill administration then 5mg is quite a hit!

I've been varying between 2mg and 5mg liquid but finding a degree of fogginess at the 5 level.

Sentinel.

[FunkOdyssey]

It was the 5mg tablets. I did crush them up a couple times to try the sublingual route, and didn't notice anything different in its effects. There may have been, but it was too subtle to detect.

[sentinel]

..either that or you were too busy shouting at people to shut-up or learn to F*ckin' drive etc

At least with the liquid you have convenient flexibility on the dosing but I'm yet to experience notable (ie non-placebo attributed) motivational effects, let alone Thor-like behaviour. No more than usual anyway. [wis]

[jackj]

..either that or you were too busy shouting at people to shut-up or learn to F*ckin' drive etc

Hmm, I do this already. Perhaps its a good thing they messed up my order and sent a "joint formula" [huh]

[kottke]

I've been varying between 2mg and 5mg liquid but finding a degree of fogginess at the 5 level.
Sentinel.

I've getting this as well and I'm quickly re dosing at 1.25mgs per day (1/4 of a tablet)

Id also like to say I've gotten the same asshole effect as you have Funk and it is NOT cool. Sure im super productive and get shit done, but life becomes pretty agitating and i sound like an angry hacker in his basement whacking off and hating the world. Not to mention taking 5mgs makes me leap into the shallow end of the pool from the diving board! It makes me ferocious and gives me a power i feel should be given gradually...

[sentinel]

5mgs makes me leap into the shallow end of the pool from the diving board! It makes me ferocious and gives me a power i feel should be given gradually...

Now you see that just wants me to ramp up to 5mg again [sfty]

Funk

A switch to bupropion SR at 150mg each morning has given me the motivational / mental energy boost I was looking for

That's a strong pitch but it just feels a little bit like opening the gate to mainstream anti-depressants unnecessarily... That's just stigma rather than science as I suppose we're just talking about elevating dopamine one way or another but does Bupropian have the (alleged) benefits on longevity Deprenyl has, is just a short term fix, and does it (most importantly) have a longer term down side?

Sentinel

[jackj]

Hi, I finally got my order of Deprenyl - "Jumex 5mg selegilna" and have been taking it 5mg every 3 days... i've been doing this for about two weeks now and feel that during the day I take it I become incredibly hostile. I must admit even when walking around I get a "don't mess with me" mentality because I might eat you feeling... I was expecting a more positive mood to be honest. Only two weeks but Im not sure if I will continue to take it... the motivation to get work done has increased though, rather confusing!

[shifter]

hmm, I have been taking 5mg per day for months with no hostile feelings. Only rarly do I find it difficult to sleep.

I also tried bumping it up to 10mg per day for a few days once and nothing bad

How much % of MAOB does deprenyl inhib in 2.5mg and 5mg doses? At 25, I certainly dont 'need' 5mg per day so wondering if 2.5mg will do the trick just as good.

Also if there is nothing to inhibit dopamine and phenylethylamine, if you were taking a dose high enough to inhibit 100% of MAOB what effects would that do to someone, how will the dopamine and phenylethylamine levels reduce and what impacts could that have on health (good or bad)

[Shepard]

How many people that are having mood issues are using tablets instead of the liquid?

[curiosity]

I suffer from lack of dopamine (I think, is there a way to test it to make sure?)

On another forum they talked about deprenyl and said that it is a MAO B inhibitor (whats this mean?)

They also said deprenyl is irreversible (scary to take it continuosly then) and it takes up to two weeks for the body to make enough new enzymes to get the levels back to normal (doesnt this contradict the irreversible thing?)

Can someone explain to me what all this means, its the major reason why im not taking deprenyl. What side effects does L-Dopa give? Is there a safer and better way to get dopamine besides L-Dopa? im confused here. What about wellbutrin, does it do the same thing as deprenyl. I only need the dopamine from deprenyl so is this the wrong place to get it?

[sentinel]

Crikey, that would take a long time to type a response to. For a start do a search on Dep using the drop down. To help establish if you have a dopamine defficieny or similar then take a look at the Braverman test. Not gospel but a good starting point;

http://www.pathmed.c...N-assesment.pdf

Most of the answers to your questions are on the forum. Happy hunting

Sentinel