18 replies to this topic

[shuffleup]

OK I've been having some panic attacks and chronic anxiety lately. My BP as measured by a large enough cuff for my arm at the Dr. was 155/94 and then 20 min later 145/83.

I have lost 40 lbs, been taking CoQ10, magnesium citrate, celery seed, no caffeine, low salt, 3-4g Vit C, etc... for a long time now and seemingly no improvement.

My doc doesn't like my BP this range and as I was complaining of frequent panic attacks where my adrenaline surges and heart rate goes WAY up in meetings at work, etc.. she wanted me to take 1x25mg atenolol nightly before bed and see if these physical symptoms and BP goes down.

I'm reluctant to take this medication because it implies a long time frame of treatment and not sure of the long term sides.

What would you guys do? If I go on the meds, what supps should I not take with it. My supp regimen is pretty basic - the above plus EGCG extract, extra Vit D, occassional theanine and rhodiola. I don't know if any of these are counter-indicated....

Help!

[health_nutty]

What is your exercise routine like?

[david ellis]

It is easy to decide what to do. Untreated blood pressure is definitely life-shortening. It seems that both of us have anxiety caused high blood pressure. I had been worrying about things that I can't fix, so my blood pressure(190/100) shot up too. Hopefully when we learn how to handle our anxiety, our blood pressure will go down and we can stop taking the medicine. The beta-blockers that we have been prescribed will help us relax(I was prescribed metoprolol-the Dr's first choice was atenolol). I have only been taking the medicine two weeks and the blood pressure is controlled and I feel great, no unpleasant side effects either.

I am making no changes in my supplements. Maybe somebody knows supplements that will take the blood pressure down, but I don't. Fish oil( 3g/day EPA/DHA) is supposed to, but obviously it didn't work for me.

[krillin]

Take a bunch of taurine: it reduces adrenaline secretion in doses of 1.5 grams or more in me. Panax ginseng did the same thing. I didn't have anxiety at the time, so the symptom was slower running.

Also try 320-640 mg inositol hexanicotinate. It'll lower cAMP and diminish anxiety. It's like an anti-caffeine and will lower your energy level.

[shuffleup]

What is your exercise routine like?

Up until about a month ago it included about 4 20 min cardio sessions per week and 4x per week resistance training for about 45 min a piece.

Recently just the cardio by running around the neighborhood. I much prefer strength training but you can't squat when you think you're going to die.

I just purchased two yoga dvd's and have begun learning meditation.

[shuffleup]

It is easy to decide what to do.  Untreated blood pressure is definitely life-shortening.  It seems that both of us have anxiety caused high blood pressure.  I had been worrying about things that I can't fix, so my blood pressure(190/100) shot up too.  Hopefully when we learn how to handle our anxiety, our blood pressure will go down and we can stop taking the medicine.  The beta-blockers that we have been prescribed will help us relax(I was prescribed metoprolol-the Dr's first choice was atenolol).  I have only been taking the medicine two weeks and the blood pressure is controlled and I feel great, no unpleasant side effects either. 

I am making no changes in my supplements.    Maybe somebody knows supplements that will take the blood pressure down, but I don't.  Fish oil( 3g/day EPA/DHA)  is supposed to,  but obviously it didn't work for me.

Thanks for the input. I hope my experience is as good as yours..

[shuffleup]

Take a bunch of taurine: it reduces adrenaline secretion in doses of 1.5 grams or more in me. Panax ginseng did the same thing. I didn't have anxiety at the time, so the symptom was slower running.

Also try 320-640 mg inositol hexanicotinate. It'll lower cAMP and diminish anxiety. It's like an anti-caffeine and will lower your energy level.

I'll check out taurine. If I add this in with the atenolol though will I get too low??

[JonesGuy]

If it's anxiety-caused, then you want to tackle the anxiety. You can lose all the weight you want, if the brain is triggering a fear response, you're going to have elevated blood pressure.

On the plus side, elevated blood pressure due to anxiety means that you have time to treat it. We know what the BP spike is caused by.

With regards to diet/exercise problems, BP problems is a system of an endemic and long-term problem. By the time you notice BP issues (due to diet/exercise problems), the damage is already there. Increased tomato consumption (on the order of a tin of pure tomato paste every day or so) combined with increased Omega 3s will help offset, delay, and prevent BP problems of this nature.

However, in your case it reads like the issue is anxiety-caused. Medication can be useful, but cognitive therapy is also very useful. I would consult with a psychologist (if you're not the type to self-research problems) or learn a bit about anxiety on your own.
In the iTunes store there is a podcast recording of an introduction to psychology course (recordings of a professor at UC Berkeley)(search for "berkeley" and "psychology" in the iTunes store). A couple lectures deal with anxiety. I'd recommend giving them a listening while you go for your daily walks. Those will be two hours well invested.

[malbecman]

I agree with QJones, you'll want to tackle your anxiety with a two pronged approach; meds/supplements and cognitive behavioral therapy(CBT) to find the trigger(s) of your attacks. I also found meditation very, very useful when I went thru 3 of life's "top 10" stressors in the space of a few months, all unplanned. I started having panic attacks, anxiety, etc, whereas before I was a pretty normal cool guy.

Went to my PCP, he put my on the lowest dose of valium to use as needed when the anxiety was really bad and lowest dose of fluoxetine (which takes 3-4 weeks to kick in). He also said CBT was necessary, that most people who only use meds have relapses. You need to re-train your brain to think in new thought patterns and stop the anxiety causing thoughts.

Mindfullness mediation by Dr. John Kabatt-Zinn was extremely helpful as well. He has many books on the subject and is one of the first MDs to bring mediation practice into the modern western US medical practice with great results. Some local hospitals sponsors programs by his trainees. Do a Google on mindfullness meditation or his name and see what you can find.

Good luck, you can overcome it. One year later, I am off the meds and back to my old self.......

[JonesGuy]

That's an excellent point. Anxiety disorders are (in general) temporary disorders. They can be rewired away (usually).

[ortcloud]

Sometimes the answer to a health problem is removing something rather than adding something.

Have you looked at heavy metals yet ? Heavy metals like mercury will give you anxiety attacks and high blood pressure. Do you have almagam fillings ? Mercury vapor liberated from chewing food can go right into the olfactory bulb and then straight into the amygdala, which is the part of your brain that triggers the fight flight response. Mercury makes it trigger erratically. I know people who have cured their blood pressure and anxiety by chelating heavy metals out. They were able to get off of blood pressure and antianxiety medicine that they thought that they were going to be on for life.

[shuffleup]

Sometimes the answer to a health problem is removing something rather than adding something.

Have you looked at heavy metals yet ? Heavy metals like mercury will give you anxiety attacks and high blood pressure. Do you have almagam fillings ? Mercury vapor liberated from chewing food can go right into the olfactory bulb and then straight into the amygdala, which is the part of your brain that triggers the fight flight response. Mercury makes it trigger erratically. I know people who have cured their blood pressure and anxiety by chelating heavy metals out. They were able to get off of blood pressure and antianxiety medicine that they thought that they were going to be on for life.

No I have some fillings but they are not metaillic in color so I assume they don't have metals (but let me know if that's a bad assumptions). The fillings are the color of my teeth.

[shuffleup]

I agree with QJones, you'll want to tackle your anxiety with a two pronged approach; meds/supplements and cognitive behavioral therapy(CBT) to find the trigger(s) of your attacks.   I also found meditation very, very useful when I went thru 3 of life's "top 10" stressors in the space of a few months, all unplanned.  I started having panic attacks, anxiety, etc, whereas before I was a pretty normal cool guy.

Went to my PCP, he put my on the lowest dose of valium to use as needed when the anxiety was really bad and lowest dose of fluoxetine (which takes 3-4 weeks to kick in). He also said CBT was necessary, that most people who only use meds have relapses.  You need to re-train your brain to think in new thought patterns and stop the anxiety causing thoughts.

Mindfullness mediation by Dr. John Kabatt-Zinn was extremely helpful as well.   He has many books on the subject and is one of the first MDs to bring mediation practice into the modern western US medical practice with great results.   Some local hospitals sponsors programs by his trainees.  Do a Google on mindfullness meditation or his name and see what you can find.

Good luck, you can overcome it.  One year later, I am off the meds and back to my old self.......

Thanks - I've signed up for CBT but unfortunately the soonest I can get in is on Jul 19.

Meanwhile, I will study up more on meditation - I've been working on it and started some yoga as well.

Edited by shuffleup, 27 June 2007 - 06:45 PM.

[niner]

Shuffleup, Malbecman's suggestions are excellent; I'm glad you're going to check out CBT and meditation. My experience was that meditation was a little tough to pick up without a teacher, and that group settings are better for learning it, but YMMV. You didn't mention (or I missed it) your age and weight, but a pretty healthy person can acquire high blood pressure over time. I was in that category, and got it under control with a lowish (80 mg/d) dose of Diovan. I only mention this because the drug worked and was utterly without side effects. I was quite happy with it. I have since lost a lot of weight (I went from about 175 to 143 over about a year) and no longer seem to need any bp meds. If anxiety is the sole cause of your hypertension, then treating the cause is the best approach, although you still might benefit from one of the modern bp meds. Beta blockers are kind of old-school, though they can be effective, especially in anxiety situations. Still, as a general rule they wouldn't be my personal first choice due to side effects. Good luck and be well.

[krillin]

I'll check out taurine. If I add this in with the atenolol though will I get too low??

Meanwhile, I will study up more on meditation - I've been working on it and started some yoga as well.

I have no answer to your question. Titrate the taurine gradually if you're worried.

Meditation is a snap with a Sirius light and sound machine. After a session last night (program #18) my BP was 104/60. When my allergies are bad it can be as high as 140/80.

http://www.elixa.com/mental/Orion.htm

[krillin]

  Beta blockers are kind of old-school, though they can be effective, especially in anxiety situations.  Still, as a general rule they wouldn't be my personal first choice due to side effects.

Good point. You also reminded me of this research:

http://www.futurepun...ves/004310.html

[shuffleup]

Shuffleup, Malbecman's suggestions are excellent; I'm glad you're going to check out CBT and meditation.  My experience was that meditation was a little tough to pick up without a teacher, and that group settings are better for learning it, but YMMV.  You didn't mention (or I missed it) your age and weight, but a pretty healthy person can acquire high blood pressure over time.  I was in that category, and got it under control with a lowish (80 mg/d) dose of Diovan.  I only mention this because the drug worked and was utterly without side effects.  I was quite happy with it.  I have since lost a lot of weight (I went from about 175 to 143 over about a year) and no longer seem to need any bp meds.  If anxiety is the sole cause of your hypertension, then treating the cause is the best approach, although you still might benefit from one of the modern bp meds.  Beta blockers are kind of old-school, though they can be effective, especially in anxiety situations.  Still, as a general rule they wouldn't be my personal first choice due to side effects.  Good luck and be well.

Thanks. For your questions on my stats: I'm 31 year old male, 5'7" and 186 lbs. Muscular build but honestly could stand to lose another 10-15 lbs I think. My weight was at 228 no more than one year ago. So I feel good about the weight loss just wish some of the BP reducing bennie's would have been more apparent. Of course, if it's all related to anxiety (I can't know for sure), then I guess that might explain why no benefits from the weightloss.

I think the doc leaned to the beta blocker since I was having the panic and adrenaline surges. Cause my dad goes to the same doc and he is on something completely different for BP. Thing I'm worried about most is how I'm going to get off the meds without a bad rebound.

[malbecman]

Don't worry, once you find your triggers/faulty thinking and start to change them, the panic attacks and adrenaline surges will slowly decrease and dampen down. But make no bones about it, it will take some time (and give yourself permission and time to heal-too often we are our own worst critics and expect too much from ourselves, eg "Why can't I do this?" "What's wrong with me?", etc, etc).

The meditation and CBT will make you reflect and think about what it is that has you so wound up; I agree w/ Niner; having a teacher or group is definitely best for those.

The actual term you want to search for is mindfulness based stress reduction or MBSR. Here is the center that Dr. John Kabatt-Zinn started at the University of Massachusetts. Lots of good links there:

http://www.umassmed.edu/cfm/index.aspx


Look for a MBSR class near you if you can.....

Good luck,

-Malbec

Shuffleup, Malbecman's suggestions are excellent; I'm glad you're going to check out CBT and meditation.  My experience was that meditation was a little tough to pick up without a teacher, and that group settings are better for learning it, but YMMV.  You didn't mention (or I missed it) your age and weight, but a pretty healthy person can acquire high blood pressure over time.  I was in that category, and got it under control with a lowish (80 mg/d) dose of Diovan.  I only mention this because the drug worked and was utterly without side effects.  I was quite happy with it.  I have since lost a lot of weight (I went from about 175 to 143 over about a year) and no longer seem to need any bp meds.  If anxiety is the sole cause of your hypertension, then treating the cause is the best approach, although you still might benefit from one of the modern bp meds.  Beta blockers are kind of old-school, though they can be effective, especially in anxiety situations.  Still, as a general rule they wouldn't be my personal first choice due to side effects.  Good luck and be well.

Thanks. For your questions on my stats: I'm 31 year old male, 5'7" and 186 lbs. Muscular build but honestly could stand to lose another 10-15 lbs I think. My weight was at 228 no more than one year ago. So I feel good about the weight loss just wish some of the BP reducing bennie's would have been more apparent. Of course, if it's all related to anxiety (I can't know for sure), then I guess that might explain why no benefits from the weightloss.

I think the doc leaned to the beta blocker since I was having the panic and adrenaline surges. Cause my dad goes to the same doc and he is on something completely different for BP. Thing I'm worried about most is how I'm going to get off the meds without a bad rebound.

[shuffleup]

[quote]Don't worry, once you find your triggers/faulty thinking and start to change them, the panic attacks and adrenaline surges will slowly decrease and dampen down. But make no bones about it, it will take some time (and give yourself permission and time to heal-too often we are our own worst critics and expect too much from ourselves, eg "Why can't I do this?" "What's wrong with me?", etc, etc).

The meditation and CBT will make you reflect and think about what it is that has you so wound up; I agree w/ Niner; having a teacher or group is definitely best for those.

The actual term you want to search for is mindfulness based stress reduction or MBSR. Here is the center that Dr. John Kabatt-Zinn started at the University of Massachusetts. Lots of good links there:

http://www.umassmed.edu/cfm/index.aspx


Look for a MBSR class near you if you can.....

Good luck,

-Malbec

QUOTE]

Thanks. I can't express how thankful I am to those who are willing to help out a complete stranger. I'm basically in the worst place I've been in mentally/emotionally and I need to get back to "being normal" for my wife and 2 yeal old daughter.

I'll check out the mindfulness books. Interestingly I just picked up a book called the Mindful Brain which I think is along these lines.