When immortality is here, it'll cause problems.
Will you stay here to deal with them? will you leave? what will you do?
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Would you leave this world?
Started by
, Jun 27 2007 09:26 AM
54 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 27 June 2007 - 09:34 AM
Could we leave for awhile, then come back? I might like to vacation on Mars or something and then come back.
Plus, once simulations get to the point of being indistinguishable from reality, there would be little need to physically go other places unless there was some form of tyrannical government on Earth or something.
Plus, once simulations get to the point of being indistinguishable from reality, there would be little need to physically go other places unless there was some form of tyrannical government on Earth or something.
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#6
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Posted 27 June 2007 - 01:25 PM
Everything in life causes problems; would you leave it?
Every good thing comes at a cost. Every well intentioned plan has unintended consequences. Every solution for one can be a problem for someone else.
Please try and understand that the debate over the potential problems of longevity is way too skewed by ignorant fear that promotes the classic cliched solution of forced immigration (colony budding) that is humanity's eternal fall back from fratricide and war when population demand on resources becomes an issue.
Long before longevity could truly impact global population growth the failure of ZPG will have already triggered the worst case scenarios. The fastest way to accelerate humanity into a stable population growth curve is through the dissemination of wealth, improvements in general education, and increasing life expectancy.
We can see the evidence of this winning trifecta across all cultures and yet blind fear of the unknown and prejudice in the form of human racism (the nearly instinctual fear of those that are different) still promotes knee jerk solutions like the implications of this poll due to the limited set of options.
Every good thing comes at a cost. Every well intentioned plan has unintended consequences. Every solution for one can be a problem for someone else.
Please try and understand that the debate over the potential problems of longevity is way too skewed by ignorant fear that promotes the classic cliched solution of forced immigration (colony budding) that is humanity's eternal fall back from fratricide and war when population demand on resources becomes an issue.
Long before longevity could truly impact global population growth the failure of ZPG will have already triggered the worst case scenarios. The fastest way to accelerate humanity into a stable population growth curve is through the dissemination of wealth, improvements in general education, and increasing life expectancy.
We can see the evidence of this winning trifecta across all cultures and yet blind fear of the unknown and prejudice in the form of human racism (the nearly instinctual fear of those that are different) still promotes knee jerk solutions like the implications of this poll due to the limited set of options.
#7
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Posted 27 June 2007 - 01:33 PM
I was actually inspired to create this poll because of a discussion with some people.
They claimed immortality would just create problems, like populuration, worries etc.
And that people will just kill each other even more and many other stuff they said.
So I said if the majority of earth will decide not to acecpt immortality, I'd rather leave earth to another world and take immortality with others who think same way.
They claimed immortality would just create problems, like populuration, worries etc.
And that people will just kill each other even more and many other stuff they said.
So I said if the majority of earth will decide not to acecpt immortality, I'd rather leave earth to another world and take immortality with others who think same way.
#8
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Posted 27 June 2007 - 01:47 PM
I was actually inspired to create this poll because of a discussion with some people.
They claimed immortality would just create problems, like population, worries etc.
The point I was making wbreeze and others implied, is that you fell for a double bind trap based on a false dichotomy that traditionally blames over population on longevity when it is a well documented fact that as longevity increases societies stabilize population growth. The reasons are not proven conclusively but the statistical correlation is and I for one suspect it is rooted in aspects of evolutionary psychology.
I would love to travel and explore, this world and others. I would cherish the opportunity to go off world but the idea of doing so in some ultra modern form of Botony Bay or Cherokee Trail of Tears just plays into the emotional baggage of a psycho-society still steeped in fear based irrational prejudice. I tend not to give ground on this argument because of the tendency on the part of many opponents to blithely scapegoat longevity for problems of their own making.
Religion is responsible for most over population, should it be banned?
I can prove this through an analysis of the memes of "Manifest Destiny" and "Going Forth and Multiply" (for examples) as biblical text yet it is these very people that blame the victims for the woes they cause by such irrational instinctive behavior and policy.
Don't get me wrong BTW, I do not think it wise to try and ban religion but I do think we must be careful to not allow ourselves to be trapped by this classic false dichotomy and offered the *logically consistent* counter arguments as examples of why it is a false conclusion (and one that must be soundly countered as often as possible).
#23
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Posted 28 June 2007 - 07:24 AM
The universe is an incredibly boring place. There is very little to see. Because light travels relatively fast and retains its pattern over interstellar distances, we can already see most of what's there. And simulate it here at high resolution, if we wanted.
To simulate traveling through space, stare at an image of a starfield for many centuries.
I know that Star Trek and Star Wars grabbed the imagination of a generation, but these are complete fiction. You could create far more complexity and culture in a virtual world than ST or SW could ever hope to match.
Of course, I'm not saying that people should be prevented from visiting space, just that it'd be really, really, really, really boring, and you will be missing out on all the fun if you go.
To simulate traveling through space, stare at an image of a starfield for many centuries.
I know that Star Trek and Star Wars grabbed the imagination of a generation, but these are complete fiction. You could create far more complexity and culture in a virtual world than ST or SW could ever hope to match.
Of course, I'm not saying that people should be prevented from visiting space, just that it'd be really, really, really, really boring, and you will be missing out on all the fun if you go.
#27
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Posted 28 June 2007 - 12:20 PM
Our solar system is pretty awesome though. Some incredible places to visit - Olympus Mons, the ocean under Europa's frozen crust, and the rings of Saturn to name a just few.The universe is an incredibly boring place.
And if some method of practical and affordable FTL travel were developed, then I can imagine explorers striking out into the deep unknown in search of adventure and new worlds.
#28
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Posted 28 June 2007 - 12:45 PM
It isn't "Space" that is interesting, its the stuff in between 
There's an old Sci Fi book by Robert Heinlein called "Tunnel In The Sky" which is pretty ideal to what I would like space travel to be like. Basically StarGate but without the Evil aliens. The basic premise was that they found other planets, then they sent people to them via the "Tunnel" (love 1950's Sci Fi LOL) to try to survive in the Alien environment and create colonies.
Anyway, the story itself isn't the important thing, but the idea of instantly travelling to other planets to see different life forms, different star/moon views, rings in the orbit of your own planet. Different gravities.... etc. To just see the universe from a different perspective. I wouldn't pass that opportunity up.
So all we need is a real life StarGate Program!
There's an old Sci Fi book by Robert Heinlein called "Tunnel In The Sky" which is pretty ideal to what I would like space travel to be like. Basically StarGate but without the Evil aliens. The basic premise was that they found other planets, then they sent people to them via the "Tunnel" (love 1950's Sci Fi LOL) to try to survive in the Alien environment and create colonies.
Anyway, the story itself isn't the important thing, but the idea of instantly travelling to other planets to see different life forms, different star/moon views, rings in the orbit of your own planet. Different gravities.... etc. To just see the universe from a different perspective. I wouldn't pass that opportunity up.
So all we need is a real life StarGate Program!
#29
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Posted 28 June 2007 - 01:37 PM
I think Heinlein called it the Ramsbotham jump, or maybe gate.There's an old Sci Fi book by Robert Heinlein called "Tunnel In The Sky" which is pretty ideal to what I would like space travel to be like.
Another nice example, from Dan Simmons' Hyperion series of novels, is the Farcaster developed by the TechnoCore, a race of post-singularity Artificial Intelligences who ceded from humanity.
(I thoroughly recommend Hyperion btw)
Sign me up!So all we need is a real life StarGate Program!
#30
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Posted 28 June 2007 - 08:39 PM
If we were immortal we'd have the time to explore other planets even without FTL travel. I'm sure we could find ways to entertain ourselves on the ship. Of course, we'd still miss everything that happened on Earth.
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