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Racetams, Racetams, Racetams!


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#1 suspire

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 06:12 PM


I apologize if this question has been asked before. I'm new to the forum, but did read through a ton of posts--still, I couldn't find the answer to my question:

Why are people stacking the various rRcetams? I've noticed several people list that they are taking Piracetam with Oxiracetam, Aniracetam and/or Pramiracetam. Aren't they all pretty much the same, except in strength(as in Piracetam is the weakest of the lot, with Pramiracetam supposedly being the strongest). Why would you combine the various Racetams--do they have different effects?

I am thinking of starting on Aniracetam. I took Piracetam a long time back with no noticeable effect. I want to try something stronger this time around, but now I am wondering whether I should be combining Aniracetam with other members of the Racetam family. If so, could someone explain to me why?

Also, what else should I be combining with the Racetams for maximum effect? Research on here and elsewhere says that Centrophenoxine is the way to go with the Racetams. Anything else for a synergetic effect?

Thanks a bunch!

#2 awarren

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:36 PM

Many people believe that every individual has a very unique response to different racetams. Some people believe that micro-dosing Piracetam is more effective than taking large doses. Aniracetam also supposedly stimulates different receptors in the brain than aniracetam. From people that claim positive results or non-placebo effects, they usually say that it is necessary to experiment. Some racetams are used in hospitals for some things (I can't be clear because my girlfriend made a brief remark about a racetam she heard that was used to treat seizures but didn't remember its name). Racetam are also claimed have synergistic effects when taken together.

It seems to be based on personal preference. I am skeptical since a lot of evidence seems to be anecdotal, but I am also 20 years old and really have no need to take it. You said you took Piracetam with no noticeable effect. Did you supplement with a Choline source? Research that on the boards. I've read that a Choline is pretty much essential if you are going to taken nootropics, especially racetams.

Good luck!

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#3 suspire

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:38 AM

No, I didn't take it with a choline source the first time around and yes, I've noticed from the research that it seems to be essential. That said, it sounds like more people stick to Pricacetam due to the higher prices of other Racetams than anything else--less experimenting with the more expensive items. Since price is less an issue with me(except I hate needlessly paying stupid fees, like RevGenetics ridiculously high shipping costs), I've decided to try more expensive items.

I've decided, this time around, to go with Pramiracetam, along with Ortho-Mind(which has L-Pyroglutamic Acid, which is apparently used in all the Racetams), along with Choline and a few other nootropics and see how it goes.

#4 awarren

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:04 AM

I'd be careful to mix a lot of this all it once. It makes it difficult to gauge how each nootropic is affecting you. I'd advise you to start with Choline and Pramiracetam, first experiment with dosages over a couple weeks.

#5 suspire

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:58 AM

Yeah, you're probably right. I was almost going to go in the opposite direction--that is, start with a bunch of things I wanted to try all at once, then selectively remove items and see how their absence made me feel. The reason for this is mostly because I've only rarely feel effects from supplements(creatine is the only supplement I can think of that ever effected me, besides the obvious stuff like high levels of caffeine, alcohol, etc) and I didn't want to wait forever to see if things worked. Of course, this backwards engineering process is risky and I may do as you(and others in the forums) have suggested.

I thought, however, that Centrophenoxine was a good addition to the Racetams, much in the way Choline is. Or did I read that wrong(I think I read that on Wikipedia, actually)?

#6 trevyn

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 12:31 AM

I have bottles of pi, ani, oxi, prami, phenylpi, centro, and alpha GPC. I've been messing willy-nilly with various combinations, and the only thing I can say for certain is that phenylpiracetam is awesome. I'm referring to the clean stimulant effect, which just makes me feel sharp and "on". 100mg is good, 200mg is better, but I do seem to build tolerance to the stimulant effect where it becomes less pronounced after continued use, so I only take it when I feel I need it. Haven't tried more than 200mg/day.

#7 suspire

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 04:25 AM

What is your daily regimen with the Racetams, Trevyn? And what do you combine them with(ie, Alpha GPC)? What effects do you tend to feel from your regimen? And what other nootropics do you tend to use and to what effect?

Thanks!

#8 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 05:19 AM

Racetam Prices list updated, includes suppliers & their prices for:

1. Piracetam
2. Aniracetam
3. Oxiracetam
4. Pramiracetam
5. Nefiracetam
6. Phenylpiracetam

#9 Ben

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 05:43 AM

Racetam Prices list updated, includes suppliers & their prices for:

1. Piracetam
2. Aniracetam
3. Oxiracetam
4. Pramiracetam
5. Nefiracetam
6. Phenylpiracetam


Big thanks again Iso for maintaining the list. Keep up the good work!! ;)

#10 tlm884

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 07:02 AM

Many people believe that every individual has a very unique response to different racetams. Some people believe that micro-dosing Piracetam is more effective than taking large doses. Aniracetam also supposedly stimulates different receptors in the brain than aniracetam. From people that claim positive results or non-placebo effects, they usually say that it is necessary to experiment. Some racetams are used in hospitals for some things (I can't be clear because my girlfriend made a brief remark about a racetam she heard that was used to treat seizures but didn't remember its name). Racetam are also claimed have synergistic effects when taken together.

It seems to be based on personal preference. I am skeptical since a lot of evidence seems to be anecdotal, but I am also 20 years old and really have no need to take it. You said you took Piracetam with no noticeable effect. Did you supplement with a Choline source? Research that on the boards. I've read that a Choline is pretty much essential if you are going to taken nootropics, especially racetams.

Good luck!


Levitiracetam is used to treat seizure disorders but blocking SV2A vescicles in the presynaptic neuron. However, it does not have nootropic effects.
  • Ill informed x 1

#11 outsider

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 07:12 AM

I was about to try aniracetam with nefiracetam tonight to see if nefi could negate the foggy side effect I have with ani but I didn't feel like jeopardising my night. Also I said that one time I tried lemon balm and it negated the side effect of aniracetam so I will try this also in the near future and let you know.

#12 Imagination

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 09:26 PM

Some people believe that micro-dosing Piracetam is more effective than taking large doses.


i've never seen that mentioned before, how micro do you mean by micro-dosing?

#13 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 05:45 AM

Piracetam continues to be my most beloved. I tried Aniracetam last summer and it made my brain feel like it was two feet underwater. My thoughts faded, my walking wavered a bit. It was like gentle tides pulling me toward sleep. It made colours so much more saturated, even by piracetam standards. Yet I didn't want sleep, so I stopped after a few doses.

I always wonder what the stronger ones are like, and am very skeptical that their astronomically higher prices can justify their higher potency. Like Oxiracetam and Pramiracetam. Phenylpiracetam is not only insanely expensive, but posts indicate tolerance is rapid.

Nefiracetam is said to be strong, and I don't plan on having kids so the testicle deletion should be fine...

Piracetam fulfills 90% of my needs, but every few days I still feel a bit sleepy (must admit that's mostly because of my long and odd hours of wake/sleep). Forum posts seen mentioning pramiracetam as a 'revolution in my brain' are so tempting...

Too bad the duration of both pramiracetam and oxiracetam is shorter than good old piracetam.

Most importantly, people are sometimes confuse potency with power. For example, I could take huge amounts of piracetam and only reach a certain level. It has a maximum power. Now, I could have some Drug X that is twice as potent but has the same power, which means I take half as much for the same effect, but no matter how much I take it will never be more powerful than piracetam.

Then the case of Drug Y, which is both more potent and more powerful than piracetam. Even at lower doses it has stronger effects, and at higher can exceed the maximum that piracetam can deliver.

A real-world example is morphine vs. heroin vs. acetominophen (aka. Tylenol) for pain relief. Heroin is more potent than morphine but not more powerful. The two acetyl groups help it penetrate the blood-brain barrier about twice as efficiently as morphine, so the dose can be halved.

Both heroin and morphine are more potent and more powerful pain relievers than acetominophen. They give the same effect at lower doses (more potent) and are capable at various doses to deliver a level of effect which acetominophen can never reach at any dose (more powerful).

If anyone by their own experience can say that the extra cost of more potent racetams can be justified by their superior effects compared to piracetam, please post. Not the people who didn't get any good experience from piracetam, but those who did get a good experience but found that a costlier racetam was better (for its price).

Edited by Isochroma, 09 July 2009 - 05:48 AM.


#14 shifter

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 12:39 AM

What was the reason Nefiracetam was created? I cant see why any guy would want to destroy their testicles for a mild buzz when there are clearly plenty more options within the racetams. (Not like Nefiracetam is all that cheap either). Surely the destruction of a mans testes would have other negative impacts on your health other than becoming sterile. Why not people just stick with good old tried and proven Piracetam which may even lead to overall better health with long term use. (and costing merely pennies a day).

Edited by shifter, 10 July 2009 - 12:40 AM.


#15 Nietzsche

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 06:58 PM

I can't be clear because my girlfriend made a brief remark about a racetam she heard that was used to treat seizures but didn't remember its name


Levetiracetam is the racetam used as an adjunct in epilepsy. The physiological effects the cause the rest of the racetams to have nootropic effects seems to be missing, though I read one study (looking for it...) to the contrary.

Edited by Nietzsche, 12 July 2009 - 07:00 PM.


#16 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 10:35 PM

Another night, another set of clasically saturated, totally enjoyable, livable dreams!

After a year, I am spending yet more time closely looking at how Piracetam has been able to reflow my mind. If my brain was solidified like stone before piracetam, it is now fluidizing, melting and flowing like some magic liquid lava!

Lava-lamp for the mind. Even better, a hyperfluidizing agent which is capable over a period of months, years and lifetimes of totally reforming the physiochemical neural processes, in a way which refunctionalizes and indeed superfunctionalizes it.

Though I don't really need much sleep anymore, what sleep does come is absolutely amazing. Yes, all those dreams of my other self that were lost for so long have come back with a vengeance. Nightmares are beautifully clear. Sexy dreams are physically sensual to the point of being hair-raising even while in REMCycle.

However, perhaps the most enjoyable effects of total recyclicity and untirability during waking hours makes me realize that being intimate with this molecule, allowing it to entwine itself around every substructure of my molecular composition has been very sexy. And humane too. It is a dance of life, the one which sings of true.

How it feels is like my brain is being submerged in a beautiful blue pool of flowing water, what's called Neurolube in my jargon. It cools all the parts that are heated and decomposed from wear. It rebuilds them, it massages these parts whether awake or asleep. It is like drinking deeply from the fountain of eternal life.

Each day whilst travelling the world outside, vision is extraordinary. Even after a year of saturation I can't help but be dangerously distracted from my bicycle riding - perhaps an ironic mimic of Dr. Hofmann and his famous bicycle ride home after inventing LSD. Colours are outrageously bright, edges are unfathomly sharp. Yet in this picture there is not a single iota of excess - no oversharpness, no other evil effects visual or otherwise. Instead, everything is like it is being seen for the first time ever, like things were when I was very very young, like single-digit young. It is strange but supremely enjoyable. Often I refrain from taking a digital photo of these scenes, knowing that nothing short of a much more expensive digital camera and OLED display could possibly approximate what my eye sees. Anything else is a sad imitation of that otherworldly sharpness and saturation.

There is no end to the thirst which can be satisfied from that holy spring. It is the urge of my soul to totally submerge within that true source of life, and never emerge - becoming ever more true and capable, ever more fluid within its cool blue bounds for eternity. And that is what I shall do, with all required funds and schedules redirected to open the door even more, to invite that beautiful spirit into myself to remake me, to reform me into the true and beautiful being which I have always known I could become. Flying, floating, gliding, soaring through the blue, into the blue once again.

Edited by Isochroma, 30 July 2009 - 10:58 PM.


#17 shifter

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 01:46 AM

so this is definatly NOT because of a combination with the wacky tabaky? :) Just the piracetam effect on its own?

Could you achieve this effect on 3grams a day as opposed to every 3hrs?

What does piracetam breakdown into in the body? For example PEA is nice and overall looks harmless enough, but the bi-products it breaks down into are quite nasty I have heard. Just want to know that large doses aren't going to lead into a lot of crap my brain has to mop up afterwards.






Another night, another set of clasically saturated, totally enjoyable, livable dreams!

After a year, I am spending yet more time closely looking at how Piracetam has been able to reflow my mind. If my brain was solidified like stone before piracetam, it is now fluidizing, melting and flowing like some magic liquid lava!

Lava-lamp for the mind. Even better, a hyperfluidizing agent which is capable over a period of months, years and lifetimes of totally reforming the physiochemical neural processes, in a way which refunctionalizes and indeed superfunctionalizes it.

Though I don't really need much sleep anymore, what sleep does come is absolutely amazing. Yes, all those dreams of my other self that were lost for so long have come back with a vengeance. Nightmares are beautifully clear. Sexy dreams are physically sensual to the point of being hair-raising even while in REMCycle.

However, perhaps the most enjoyable effects of total recyclicity and untirability during waking hours makes me realize that being intimate with this molecule, allowing it to entwine itself around every substructure of my molecular composition has been very sexy. And humane too. It is a dance of life, the one which sings of true.

How it feels is like my brain is being submerged in a beautiful blue pool of flowing water, what's called Neurolube in my jargon. It cools all the parts that are heated and decomposed from wear. It rebuilds them, it massages these parts whether awake or asleep. It is like drinking deeply from the fountain of eternal life.

Each day whilst travelling the world outside, vision is extraordinary. Even after a year of saturation I can't help but be dangerously distracted from my bicycle riding - perhaps an ironic mimic of Dr. Hofmann and his famous bicycle ride home after inventing LSD. Colours are outrageously bright, edges are unfathomly sharp. Yet in this picture there is not a single iota of excess - no oversharpness, no other evil effects visual or otherwise. Instead, everything is like it is being seen for the first time ever, like things were when I was very very young, like single-digit young. It is strange but supremely enjoyable. Often I refrain from taking a digital photo of these scenes, knowing that nothing short of a much more expensive digital camera and OLED display could possibly approximate what my eye sees. Anything else is a sad imitation of that otherworldly sharpness and saturation.

There is no end to the thirst which can be satisfied from that holy spring. It is the urge of my soul to totally submerge within that true source of life, and never emerge - becoming ever more true and capable, ever more fluid within its cool blue bounds for eternity. And that is what I shall do, with all required funds and schedules redirected to open the door even more, to invite that beautiful spirit into myself to remake me, to reform me into the true and beautiful being which I have always known I could become. Flying, floating, gliding, soaring through the blue, into the blue once again.



#18 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 01 August 2009 - 07:50 AM

Of course the 30mg of DXM taken after dark, then 40 minutes later 2/3-1 bowl of cannabis, might also be a strong part.

Let's say that a cake is more than one ingredient. A magical ratio exists, and a time for magick in the darkness. Never by the light of day, but only under the starlit sky by a small pyre of bones arranged in cones.

To the Devil one must pray, and that everyday. There is a secret to daily lucid dreaming, and the noble piracetam plays a key part.

Alone none of the actors are particularly exceptional, save of course the amazing but subtle effect of a daily high-dose piracetam regimen. Together in time like a good recipe they mitigate each others' deficits and co-multiply their strengths.

Besides that there is the magic of chancing upon a certain recipe, balanced in the right proportions. I could go into depth on how each ingredient effects the mix. Both DXM and piracetam are the clearing agents. They both sharpen the edges of the high, with of course a mild compromise in the sleepy, dreamy quality.

However, the small dose of DXM also adds its own dreaminess, and decreases several undesirable physiological changes induced by the cannabis: namely coughing, coldness, muscle tension and tremor. These changes are of particular use during the comeup or using high doses of cannabis, or while smoking in a cold environment (ie. outdoors at night).

As for dreaming, piracetam plays a key role by making dreams more vivid and notably, increasing recall of dreams the next day. However, it was never by itself the complete key to hyperreal dreaming in my case. The other half of the key is the small dose of DXM. At higher doses DXM produces amnesia and prevents proper dreaming - not to mention its other 'trip' effects, which are not present to any identifiable degree at this dose. The range is about 15-30mg per 140lbs of bodyweight, or 0.24 - 0.47 mg/kg.

I can't say why this occurs and susceptibility to the effect may be very different between individuals.

One theory is that even at small doses DXM is a powerful drug and produces its characteristic withdrawal effects of excess clarity and psychosis, with the psychosis being only slight. The interesting thing is that due to timing effects, because the dose is taken just before bed, and because metabolism slows down during sleep, peak withdrawal effects occur during REM sleep.

Though washout psychosis is very small or even nonexistent with such a low dose, it may nonetheless effect REMcycle dreams because dreaming is very easily influenced by subtle elements of the brain's function which are altered by the agent. Waking consciousness is by comparison much more stable and difficult to alter.

Characteristic irregularity and unpredictability of vivid or lucid dreams is common. Piracetam is excellent for enhancing both normal dreaming and supernormal dreaming by means of common function elevation. However, the unusual element in my case was DXM, which in the dose noted produces the unusual effect of consistent, nightly hi-vision dreams. Consistency is the key, and it is this effect which amazes me so much.

Edited by Isochroma, 01 August 2009 - 08:01 AM.


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#19 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 02:32 AM

Today we take a break from the usual dull subject matter for a colourful graphical representation of a rare species, found only in the deep dark jungles of an unnamed South American country: Cebaracetam! So uncommon is this beasty that it cannot even be found on Wikipedia...

Posted Image


Nobody knows what it does and it can't be bought anywhere - a real three-ring circus so to speak. So what do we do? Colour in the enclosed spaces just like those B&W children's colouring books! Creativity can best work when uninhibited by the meddlings of science.

By the way, did anyone think of teaching kids chemistry by giving them colouring books full of B&W molecular diagrams (at least one ring per diagram of course)? Along with the titles of the compounds too - got to have 'em remember by association right?

Edited by Isochroma, 08 August 2009 - 02:40 AM.





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