59 replies to this topic

[1kgcoffee]

I remember reading somewhere that vinegar activates DAF-2 which mediates insulin response. Anyone know more about this?

[chrono]

Does anyone else have tips on masking the taste? I mixed one shot of ACV with 2 of water and it burned and tasted horrible, so I topped off the glass with about 7 oz more water and I could not finish it.

Like I said above, honey and ice really do the trick, and a straw helps get less of it on your tongue. After doing it this way for a couple months, I can just tolerate it straight in a glass of water.

[kenj]

Apple cider vinegar + pinch of stevia + a lil' juice + crushed garlic = wicked buzz!

[adamh]

Why not just use the apple cider vinegar pills? No taste, no tooth erosion, just swallow it down.

[shadowhawk]

Try the various drinks at Bragg for ideas how to use vinegar.
http://bragg.com/zen...=index&cPath=16

I make my own salad dressing with vinegar, MCT oil and any artificial sweetener. Then I blend it.
1/4 oil to 2/3 vinegar. One packet of sweetener.

[Atropy]

Why not just use the apple cider vinegar pills? No taste, no tooth erosion, just swallow it down.

Ordering the vinegar off from Iherb seems more expensive than the the capsule form.However,there is no mention if the "with Mother" part of the vinegar is used to make the capsules.If they do use the fermented vinegar "with Mother" Ill try it.

[panhedonic]

Please be careful about choking with vinegar. I almost died from it. My throat shat down and I could not breathe for what seemed a long period of time. I would say that the best way to have it is diluted.

[normalizing]

look at you guys. you are actually chugging down apple cider vinegar now thinking its another miracious shit to make you live longer than your reproductive age. new low on the supplement community

[1kgcoffee]

Uh- no one is claiming 'miracles' here. It's a health promoting nutraceutical that has a long history.

[RJ23_1989]

look at you guys. you are actually chugging down apple cider vinegar now thinking its another miracious shit to make you live longer than your reproductive age. new low on the supplement community

You need to check tone of voice and your attitude, all knowing one..

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[normalizing]

Uh- no one is claiming 'miracles' here. It's a health promoting nutraceutical that has a long history.

health promoting ? all the benefits listed about it are not proven in clinical trials. all it can cause is throat soreness and ulcers. but go right ahead, sip another glass of apple cider vinegar and feel "healthy"

[sthira]

For some people vinegar is too harsh, but others like it. Shrug. Don't like it, don't take it. But it seems to curb the glucose and insulin responses to a sucrose or starch load.

[tunt01]

health promoting ? all the benefits listed about it are not proven in clinical trials. all it can cause is throat soreness and ulcers. but go right ahead, sip another glass of apple cider vinegar and feel "healthy"

It's been used for 100 years against diabetes, long before insulin was available. Acetic acid is probably in 50%+ of the salad dressings you've had in your life.

[1kgcoffee]

I don't like your combative tone, but I will try to have this discussion anyways.

Studies have been done on ACV. On top of that, many of the constituents of ACV, such as organic acids and phenolic compounds have been studied individually with promising findings. We know of biological effects the individual constituents have alone. We can extrapolate from that until more studies are done. If you deny this obvious fact, your skepticism has led you to the point of ignorance. Substances of this nature are not pharmaceuticals. They are meant for subclinical conditions or squaring the aging curve in normal or almost-healthy people.

Taken correctly, either diluted in water, in salad dressing or as capsules, ACV is safe.

If I had claimed 30 years ago that wine and chocolate and frankincense had substantial health benefits, the skeptics would have responded in a similar way as you. We know now that they are wrong. There were clues then that they were wrong. There are clues now that ACV has health promoting effect. Do your own DD.

Uh- no one is claiming 'miracles' here. It's a health promoting nutraceutical that has a long history.

health promoting ? all the benefits listed about it are not proven in clinical trials. all it can cause is throat soreness and ulcers. but go right ahead, sip another glass of apple cider vinegar and feel "healthy"

[1kgcoffee]

Normalizing,
Did you believe the same things about coffee before it's health benefits were substantiated in the last decade? ACV contains many of the same compounds.
Should we deny the evidence of our senses, the feeling of clean energy and the cumulative positive effect over months and years just because it is not well studied? You might be missing out.

[normalizing]

coffee has many detrimental effects. same with wine and chocolate. depending on the variety, type, way of process, origin, adulteration problems etc.

coffee slows down metabolism in excess and depending on your body type, it can be as little as one cup. for example, one cup makes me gain weight. some people lose weight with 1-2 cups and gain weight 3-4 cups or more.
wine is the most complicated thing there is to discuss. it has around 100+ compounds but they can be much much less or more, again, depending on the type of grape, origin, way of extraction, fermentation and very important what oak if any oak is used and how long it is aged etc. most wine is bad for you.
chocolate, see wine description. most chocolate is not good for you, even the good quality can dissorganize certain minerals and vitamins in your body if used in excess, and by excess i mean clinically valuable doses.

anyway apologies for involving myself in this thread, i just read through it, thought its strange to have a fanbase for apple cider vinegar but i guess there is fanbase for anything now, maybe air and water too.

[1kgcoffee]

It does depend on the person, processing etc. Anything can be harmful in excess. For most people the foods listed above have a wide therapeutic threshold, are generally regarded as safe, and have a net benefit over time.

I can't agree with this statements that wine and chocolate are not good for most people.

[daouda]

health promoting ? all the benefits listed about it are not proven in clinical trials.

So typical... First, there ARE some studies on the "medicinal" properties of ACV.
But anyway, just do a search for various folk medicine remedies on pubmed, you will quickly see that modern science most often validates many, many centuries later the use and purposes of substances that have been used traditionally for a more than a thousand years... (especially true for so many of the TCM remedies)
Empirical "studies" across hundreds of years >>>> the extremely costly 2 to 6 years series of big pharma-funded "clinical trials" before a drug gets marketing authorization.
What hasn't been proven by modern clinical studies (yet) is most definitely NOT necessarily "quackery", and the best medical scientists acknowledge this, that's why many so called "innovative" synthetic new drugs are actually inspired by if not copies of an old, natural traditional remedy....

wine is the most complicated thing there is to discuss. it has around 100+ compounds but they can be much much less or more, again, depending on the type of grape, origin, way of extraction, fermentation and very important what oak if any oak is used and how long it is aged etc. most wine is bad for you.

You obviously believe that only isolated and extremely standardized compounds (=pharmaceuticals) have a real, reliable medicinal value. That principle is actually the reason why so many if not most products of the pharmaceutical industry fail to be the equals of their traditional, natural, non standardized equivalents. An example is pure, standardized L-dopa vs Mucuna beans extracts (Mucuna extracts are as effective as L-Dopa against Parkinson WITHOUT the side effects such as diskinesia, the reason is probably that there is additional, unidentified compound(s) in mucuna besides L-Dopa that may act as 'built in" decarboxilase inhibitors).

Edited by daouda, 18 August 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[normalizing]

It does depend on the person, processing etc. Anything can be harmful in excess. For most people the foods listed above have a wide therapeutic threshold, are generally regarded as safe, and have a net benefit over time.

I can't agree with this statements that wine and chocolate are not good for most people.

as i expected you fail to understand the complexity of wine and chocolate. im telling you again, depends on many many factors if they are any good for you. im not speaking based on individual experience only, but the type style and way they are made. all the wine and chocolate you see in the store, mostly diluted, fake. good quality wine and chocolate are really expensive. you should probably look into economics for better understanding of how the system works. even good apple cider vinegar is most likely expensive.

[Guardian4981]

Apple cider vinegar seems to give me a stomach ache when I use it.

I would say Cinnulin PF is a better alternaitve for those seeking substances to help with blood sugar.

[sthira]

wine is the most complicated thing there is to discuss. it has around 100+ compounds but they can be much much less or more, again, depending on the type of grape, origin, way of extraction, fermentation and very important what oak if any oak is used and how long it is aged etc. most wine is bad for you.

I hear your argument, and I wonder if that same complexity can't be found in everything we injest? I mean, no one has yet unravelled the chemical mysteries of an apple. Food is complex, and how food affects human biology remains mysterious at the deepest levels.

[1kgcoffee]

Funny you mention economics, that's one of my main interests outside of life extension. I know well how producers will adulterate popular products such as wine and olive oil or chocolate. The healthful compounds impart certain flavours that are easy to recognize. I am not a slack-jawed Dr Oz viewer when it comes to these things.

Yes, decent wine can be expensive, so can good dark chocolate. The quality and selection have been improving for years, and there are now quality discount brands. But cocoa beans or powder are quite affordable and near impossible to adulterate, if you're interested only in health benefits. WRT wine, extracts can be made from dry plant with similar effect. Both improve mortality.

By the way, many of the studies done on these products have not distinguished between high and low quality products, meaning that their is either little difference, or that high quality products have even more substantial health benefits than previously though.

The best apple cider vinegar (Braggs) is even more affordable that cocoa powder.

It does depend on the person, processing etc. Anything can be harmful in excess. For most people the foods listed above have a wide therapeutic threshold, are generally regarded as safe, and have a net benefit over time.

I can't agree with this statements that wine and chocolate are not good for most people.

as i expected you fail to understand the complexity of wine and chocolate. im telling you again, depends on many many factors if they are any good for you. im not speaking based on individual experience only, but the type style and way they are made. all the wine and chocolate you see in the store, mostly diluted, fake. good quality wine and chocolate are really expensive. you should probably look into economics for better understanding of how the system works. even good apple cider vinegar is most likely expensive.

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 21 August 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[nameless]

Apple cider vinegar seems to give me a stomach ache when I use it.

I would say Cinnulin PF is a better alternaitve for those seeking substances to help with blood sugar.

Agree.

I tried apple cider vinegar once (Braggs), basically as an experiment to see if my stomach issues may be due to lack of stomach acid, instead of too much.

Let's just say the experiment didn't last very long.

I have read there could be some issues with vinegars like Braggs due to fungus possibly being present (non-pastuerized), so if anyone does use this, maybe best to use an encapsulated product that has been pasteurized or something. I just know for myself, using it would destroy my belly.

Edited by nameless, 21 August 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[MG63]

I've been taking Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar drink with Honey before large meals - blood test show a 10% reduction in fasting glucose levels

[sthira]

I've been taking Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar drink with Honey before large meals - blood test show a 10% reduction in fasting glucose levels

What does it show without the honey?

[MG63]

not sure, have not tried without the honey, using the honey as a pre-biotic to aid in digestion. That said, studies show that sugar from honey creates a lower insulin response than process sugar.

[blood]

New-ish study on Apple Cider Vinegar:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1756464613001874

Vinegar ingestion at mealtime reduced fasting blood glucose concentrations in healthy adults at risk for type 2 diabetes

Carol S. Johnston, , Samantha Quagliano1, Serena White

Nutrition Program, School of Nutrition and Health Promotion, Arizona State University, 500 N. 3rd Street, Phoenix, AZ 85004, United States

Highlights
• Antiglycaemic effects of vinegar were examined in adults at risk for type 2 diabetes.
• Daily vinegar ingestion reduced fasting glucose in an immediate and sustained manner.
• Incorporating vinegar into the food matrix may favorably influence blood glucose.

Abstract

This 12-week pilot study examined effects of vinegar on markers of type 2 diabetes in at-risk adults. Participants (n = 14) ingested 750 mg acetic acid as a vinegar drink or a control pill (40 mg acetic acid) twice daily at mealtime. Blood glucose (fasting and 2-h postprandial) was recorded daily. Fasting blood collected at weeks 0 and 12 was analyzed for insulin and glycated hemoglobin. Average change in fasting glucose was reduced in the vinegar group versus control group (−0.91 ± 0.27 versus −0.26 ± 0.17 mmol/l) (p = 0.05). Average change in 2-h postprandial glucose, insulin and glycated hemoglobin did not vary between groups. Fasting breath hydrogen at week 12 was elevated 19% in the vinegar group versus control group suggesting an increase in colonic fermentation in the vinegar group. These data indicate that vinegar, a simple addition to meals, has antiglycaemic effects in adults at-risk for type 2 diabetes, possibly related to carbohydrate maldigestion.

Commentary on the study from Nutra ingredients:

www.nutraingredients-usa.com—Vinegar-beverage-shows-blood-sugar-management-potential


The ASU researchers recruited 14 people at-risk of type-2 diabetes to participate in their pilot study. The participants were randomly assigned to receive either the Bragg vinegar beverage (8 oz per day) or one vinegar pill (Apple Cider Vinegar tablets, GNC with 40 mg of acetic acid per pill) twice daily for 12 weeks.

Results showed that the average fasting glucose level in the vinegar group was significantly lower than in the control group (−0.91 versus −0.26 mmol/l, respectively).

On the other hand, there were no differences between the groups for glucose levels two hours after eating, insulin and glycated hemoglobin.

“This study in healthy individuals at risk for type 2 diabetes demonstrated that a simple diet strategy, regular vinegar ingestion (1 tablespoon at mealtime twice daily), resulted in greater reductions in fasting blood glucose concentrations than daily metformin or rosiglitazone use (−0.89 versus −0.22 and −0.50 mmol/l respectively),” wrote Johnston, Quagliano, and White.

“This effect of vinegar is particularly noteworthy when the cost, access and toxicities associated pharmaceutical medications are considered.”

“This effect was immediate (occurring within the first week of treatment) and sustained during the study period; moreover, this effect was noted without any further changes to eating patterns,” they added. “Elevations in colonic fermentation as evidenced by breath hydrogen and methane measurements suggest that the antiglycaemic effect of vinegar is related in part to carbohydrate maldigestion.”

Edited by blood, 05 September 2013 - 10:56 AM.

[tunt01]

A mixture of vinegar and olive oil is the traditional salad dressing used in the Mediterranean diet. The consumption of vinegar with meals was used as a home remedy for diabetes before the advent of pharmacologic glucose-lowering therapy. Indeed modern studies indicate that vinegar significantly reduces post-meal glycemia, probably because acetic acid slows gastric emptying and thus delays carbohydrate absorption and improves satiety. Recent studies show that 1 to 2 tablespoons of vinegar, when added to a meal containing high-glycemic-index foods such as white bread or white rice, will both: 1) lower post-prandial glucose by 25% to 35% (Figure5),Figure 2) increase post-meal satiety by more than 2-fold (32). Thus the addition of vinegar to a standard meal can not only improve the meal-induced oxidant stress by blunting the post-prandial glucose excursion, but also can increase and prolong satiety, which should help to reduce food cravings and lower caloric intake over the subsequent 2 to 4 h. Finally, vinegar with olive oil is generally consumed with green leafy vegetables, which have superior nutrient-to-calorie ratios and very low glycemic indexes.

Source: Dietary Strategies for Improving Post-Prandial Glucose, Lipids, Inflammation, and Cardiovascular Health

Edited by prophets, 05 September 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[blood]

Source: Dietary Strategies for Improving Post-Prandial Glucose, Lipids, Inflammation, and Cardiovascular Health

That article is chock full of useful tips - thanks for posting it.

[tunt01]

That article is chock full of useful tips - thanks for posting it.

Yes, it's an article I've repeatedly come back to over the years. The author (Dr. O'Keefe) is pretty well known -- he did a TED talk on running and how to not over do it (compared to runners who exert themselves too much and drop dead).