76 replies to this topic

[Live Forever]

[Liquidus]

LMAO, this is an instant classic, I don't think I've ever seen this before. Definitely a great laugh. It's sad though, because the root of Christianity well before all the garbage started getting published/forced onto people, was such a promising concept of peace and acceptance.

[william7]

Okay buddy, it's time to let me choke them demons out ya. It's for your own good.

[william7]

LMAO, this is an instant classic, I don't think I've ever seen this before. Definitely a great laugh. It's sad though, because the root of Christianity well before all the garbage started getting published/forced onto people, was such a promising concept of peace and acceptance.

That's an accurate assessment of the Scriptures without a doubt. The Bible just needs to be reinterpreted and its true meaning brought out.

[Liquidus]

That's an accurate assessment of the Scriptures without a doubt. The Bible just needs to be reinterpreted and its true meaning brought out.

I was once a Christian myself, not by choice, but more because of tradition. Like I've said before, I have absolutely no problem with personal beliefs (even in a God/Gods/Afterlife/Metaphysical stuff), I just have a problem when beliefs are imposed on people without the right knowledge base. The Bible has been long overdue for an update, as well as many other religious scriptures (Koran/Qur'an as well).

[william7]

I was once a Christian myself, not by choice, but more because of tradition. Like I've said before, I have absolutely no problem with personal beliefs (even in a God/Gods/Afterlife/Metaphysical stuff), I just have a problem when beliefs are imposed on people without the right knowledge base. The Bible has been long overdue for an update, as well as many other religious scriptures (Koran/Qur'an as well).

Yea, I had the Methodist church forced on me when I was a kid. We all eventually came to regret it. You sound fairly open minded. If you ever get a chance, you should checkout the literature and videos put out by the United Church of God. They don't have a perfect understanding of the Scriptures yet but they do provide a better than usual Bible education.

http://www.ucg.org/
http://www.gnmagazin...about/index.htm

[struct]

The Bible has been long overdue for an update, as well as many other religious scriptures (Koran/Qur'an as well).

updated bible(s)!? not very good suggestion GSnake. Sorry.
The bibles would do more good in the recycle bin; some of them have golden margins (in case someone is looking for extracting some gold).

[william7]

I knew a couple of older heads back in the early 1970s who were convicted of breaking into a Catholic church drinking all the wine, crapping on the alter, and burning the whole place to the ground. Man I wish I coulda been in on that one. They each got 30 years. One was innocent though. When they arrested him, it caused a major riot in the small town it occurred in.

[Liquidus]

The Bible has been long overdue for an update, as well as many other religious scriptures (Koran/Qur'an as well).

updated bible(s)!? not very good suggestion GSnake. Sorry.
The bibles would do more good in the recycle bin; some of them have golden margins (in case someone is looking for extracting some gold).

Well that theory is fine and dandy, except for the fact that even if you burned the bibles, it would still give people even more of a reason to believe. At least if people choose to believe in religion, they ought to at least get relevant, modernized, updated scriptures and not ones constructed thousands of years ago. If you consider the industrial revolution, transportation, cultural diversity, and now information technology, no one who wrote these scriptures could have seen it coming, so that's why I think they should be updated if anything. From an atheist standpoint, I would agree with you, logically speaking, there is no real use for scriptures, however, from an agnostic standpoint, it makes more sense to at least promote more contemporary values to these religions, instead of outdated, obsolete ones.

If atheists have an agenda to convert religious people into atheists, the best step is to first try to create agnosticism, not atheism. Acceptance of both sides is much more positive, and beneficial rather than making it a good/evil, right/wrong type of scenario. My opinion anyway.

[struct]

I knew a couple of older heads back in the early 1970s who were convicted of breaking into a Catholic church drinking all the wine, crapping on the alter, and burning the whole place to the ground.

Churches and other religious building can be recycleble too. Few decades ago, Enver Hoxha (the ex-leader of Albania), one of the greatest and most active atheist that have lived turned the religious buildings inherited from the past into schools, gyms, museums, storage houses, etc. The obsolete ones were destroyed to open space for better structures.

[struct]

At least if people choose to believe in religion, they ought to at least get relevant, modernized, updated scriptures and not ones constructed thousands of years ago. If you consider the industrial revolution, transportation, cultural diversity, and now information technology, no one who wrote these scriptures could have seen it coming, so that's why I think they should be updated if anything.

But the updated bibles will make 'more sense' to the believers and we will never enjoy a day without religion!

[Liquidus]

But the updated bibles will make 'more sense' to the believers and we will never enjoy a day without religion!

Ya, but I don't think it's foreseeable that everyone who's smart will eventually become an Atheist/Agnostic. Say immortality was conquered in 50 years, Immortality still cannot fix the incompetence of a lot of people, the savage nature of some other people, and many of the Universe's problems, in which people sometimes use religion as a help in getting through those tough times. I don't speak personally about that, since I've developed the ability to get through tough times with my own willpower.

I don't know if religion will ever go extinct, I just don't think it should be forced upon anyone, and I don't have a problem with people who are religious as long as they don't let their beliefs restrict what I can, and cannot do (eg. religious people who are against stem cell research, etc...)

[william7]

I knew a couple of older heads back in the early 1970s who were convicted of breaking into a Catholic church drinking all the wine, crapping on the alter, and burning the whole place to the ground.

Churches and other religious building can be recycleble too. Few decades ago, Enver Hoxha (the ex-leader of Albania), one of the greatest and most active atheist that have lived turned the religious buildings inherited from the past into schools, gyms, museums, storage houses, etc. The obsolete ones were destroyed to open space for better structures.

I agree recycling Catholic religious buildings and materials would be the most useful thing to do.

[Zarrka]

I agree recycling Catholic religious buildings and materials would be the most useful thing to do.

oh... but then there will be nothing left for the fire...

:(

[JohnDoe1234]

How well does the jesus bread burn?

[Liquidus]

How well does the jesus bread burn?

From what I remember, at least at the parish I used to go to, I'm not quite sure they could even classify it as 'bread', it was more circular punch outs of cardboard and wheat. I never once drank wine either, I would usually just do the body communion and that was it (I haven't attended church since I was about 14, so I can see why I never really tried the wine/blood).

I have to admit though, for as far away as I've separated myself from faith, our priest was the nicest guy in the world (not in a pedophile way), he just genuinely cared about people. He used to play poker with us once in a while and was even a fan of South Park, he was a little younger than your average priest, but he actually made the sermons somewhat interesting and funny, which I applauded him for at the time. I couldn't imagine going to a Roman Catholic church with some 75 year old priest who's 100% by the book.

[Live Forever]

How well does the jesus bread burn?

From what I remember, at least at the parish I used to go to, I'm not quite sure they could even classify it as 'bread', it was more circular punch outs of cardboard and wheat.

Most churches use unleavened bread due to the scriptural significance of yeast being introduced. Most churches where I have taken communion over the years (several different denominations) used that type of bread. Also, depending on the denomination and church you go to, you might or might not use alcoholic wine (Baptists are probably the best known for shunning alcohol), and you might or might not use a "community cup". It is called different things (The Lord's Supper, Communion, the Eucharist, etc, etc), and different ceremonies surround it depending on where you are experiencing it.

[william7]

Most churches use unleavened bread due to the scriptural significance of yeast being introduced. Most churches where I have taken communion over the years (several different denominations) used that type of bread. Also, depending on the denomination and church you go to, you might or might not use alcoholic wine (Baptists are probably the best known for shunning alcohol), and you might or might not use a "community cup". It is called different things (The Lord's Supper, Communion, the Eucharist, etc, etc), and different ceremonies surround it depending on where you are experiencing it.

We do the Passover and Festival of Unleavened bread according to Exodus 12:1-20; Matthew 26:17-29. Because Jesus was our Passover lamb sacrificed for our sins, we skip the lamb part. We use wine, but I don't because I'm under a Nazarite vow which prohibits the use of wine, etc. Numbers 6:1-21.

[william7]

oh... but then there will be nothing left for the fire...

There will be plenty for the fire when the atheist beast power burns the Vatican down as is prophesied in Revelation 17:15-18.

[Live Forever]

Most churches use unleavened bread due to the scriptural significance of yeast being introduced. Most churches where I have taken communion over the years (several different denominations) used that type of bread. Also, depending on the denomination and church you go to, you might or might not use alcoholic wine (Baptists are probably the best known for shunning alcohol), and you might or might not use a "community cup". It is called different things (The Lord's Supper, Communion, the Eucharist, etc, etc), and different ceremonies surround it depending on where you are experiencing it.

We do the Passover and Festival of Unleavened bread according to Exodus 12:1-20; Matthew 26:17-29. Because Jesus was our Passover lamb sacrificed for our sins, we skip the lamb part. We use wine, but I don't because I'm under a Nazarite vow which prohibits the use of wine, etc. Numbers 6:1-21.

Do you drink grape juice or something, or just abstain altogether?

[Liquidus]

oh... but then there will be nothing left for the fire...

There will be plenty for the fire when the atheist beast power burns the Vatican down as is prophesied in Revelation 17:15-18.

The only real quirk I have with 'revelations' and this particular entry is the fact that Christianity's own authors place the blame on someone else (Atheists per your example) for the downfall of their religion, as if Christians are not strong enough to protect what they believe in, regardless if Atheism becomes more prominent in the future.

Additionally, even as an author, to be able to have the knowledge and wits to conceive the idea of the bible, it's not out of the question at all that the author of revelations (John) could easily guess that as humanity progressed, people would become more intelligent, and thus not need religion and turn to atheism or other theistic followings.

The whole 'end of days' thing and the rapture go too far for me. To be so paranoid that the end of days (even in a 'good' way) is inevitably coming is something I wouldn't want to deal with. I'm just fine living with the fact that the future is 100% unscripted, and is only molded by what we do in the present, no other way. I would rather live on earth with what I have right now, than live in any kind of predetermined paradise or blissful nature scene. The ups and downs of life are what I live for, the challenge is always staying up, and once you figure out how to do that and don't let other things bring you down, there really is no other alternative I would rather have.

Now being a poor, social outcast (claiming to be writing the scriptures of god at the earliest point of the religion), living in a desert with harsh realities and no improvement in sight (people lived to be about 20-30, and this was in places like Rome, imagine the expectancy of someone living in Israel with the heat and no proper nutrition), I could definitely see how a paradise would be a welcome thing after a life such as that, heck the Apostles could have all been a bunch of teenagers. Unfortunately for paradise, I'm not interested.

I think people just need to put things into perspective sometimes. You can live this life believing it's a precursor to a paradise that's never been documented as existing (true for ALL religions), or you can live this life as if this is your paradise, and what you make of it is what you get. Fortunately for us, and I mean fortunately as the biggest understatement of humanity's entire existence, we have the POTENTIAL to do something once thought to be impossible, and cure aging and ultimately death. This is only one of the very few promising thing we could accomplish. If not for the religious people who choose their reality, then at LEAST for the generations to come who should be welcomed into a neutral world, able to make a choice on their own based on what they believe in.

If that's the proclaimed 'end of days' that religions provide as fear fodder, I can't say I'm scared one bit.

[JohnDoe1234]

Very well said G Snake

[william7]

Do you drink grape juice or something, or just abstain altogether?

Abstain altogether. No alcoholic beverages, no grapes or raisins. No drugs either.

[JohnDoe1234]

no grapes or raisins

It's my understanding that you have to let the fruits ferment before you get any alcoholic effects from them, so are saying you won't even eat them period?

[Liquidus]

No drugs either.

Do you abstain from taking prescription medication? Technically still considered 'drugs', and objectively speaking, there's no real difference between prescription drugs and controlled substances, in both instances, you're putting unnatural chemicals in your body.

[william7]

The only real quirk I have with 'revelations' and this particular entry is the fact that Christianity's own authors place the blame on someone else (Atheists per your example) for the downfall of their religion, as if Christians are not strong enough to protect what they believe in, regardless if Atheism becomes more prominent in the future

This article, at http://www.tomorrows...item=1178863310, suggests that the beast power will be atheistic. You must remember that the beast destroys the false Christian (Roman Catholic) church then is itself defeated by Jesus Christ at His second coming to establish the kingdom of God on earth. Revelation 19:11-21.

Additionally, even as an author, to be able to have the knowledge and wits to conceive the idea of the bible, it's not out of the question at all that the author of revelations (John) could easily guess that as humanity progressed, people would become more intelligent, and thus not need religion and turn to atheism or other theistic followings.

It's my belief that people will come to realize that absolute necessity of establishing one true religion that's superior to all the others, including atheism, in order to make substantial progress and provide a better life for everyone on this planet. The Bible has all the educative material, if construed correctly, for building such a new religion that's better than all the proceeding ones

Now being a poor, social outcast (claiming to be writing the scriptures of god at the earliest point of the religion), living in a desert with harsh realities and no improvement in sight (people lived to be about 20-30, and this was in places like Rome, imagine the expectancy of someone living in Israel with the heat and no proper nutrition), I could definitely see how a paradise would be a welcome thing after a life such as that, heck the Apostles could have all been a bunch of teenagers. Unfortunately for paradise, I'm not interested.

The Scriptures do promise a paradise on earth which will be good news to the poor, the prisoner, the oppressed, etc. See Luke 4:18-19.

I think people just need to put things into perspective sometimes. You can live this life believing it's a precursor to a paradise that's never been documented as existing (true for ALL religions),

Would you say this is also true for science and technology - which promises a future paradise based on its fruits?

we have the POTENTIAL to do something once thought to be impossible, and cure aging and ultimately death.

What if it will take a paradise on earth to be able to live out the increased lifespan that will be the result of preventing aging? Death comes in ways other than aging. It will take a paradise on earth to prevent accidents and to put an end to human aggression don't you think?

[Liquidus]

It's my belief that people will come to realize that absolute necessity of establishing one true religion that's superior to all the others, including atheism, in order to make substantial progress and provide a better life for everyone on this planet. The Bible has all the educative material, if construed correctly, for building such a new religion that's better than all the proceeding ones

That's using the assumption that Atheists believe they're part of a religion, which, the last time I checked, most Atheists would not consider their value/belief system to do with being part of a religion. Atheists, from my experiences, are more concerned with human life, than 'godly' life. Christianity might be the largest at the moment, but I find it arrogant that Christianity claims to have the path of the absolute religion, while all others are faulty and non-absolute. As a contingency plan, Christianity claims to know how it will fall, and that the falling of Christianity has been for told, and there are no alternatives.

Would you say this is also true for science and technology - which promises a future paradise based on its fruits?

The only paradise that religion has provided are delusional aspirations of a better life after death. Science/Technology has done infinitely more than religion has done to this point, when you consider the tangibles. Science does NOT promise a future paradise land, it promises that if you use your full potential, NOTHING is impossible. Whereas religion forces you to feel inferior to some 'divine' power that's so 'divine', it's never shown itself to anyone except for 'prophets', and tells you what is possible, and what isn't possible.

What if it will take a paradise on earth to be able to live out the increased lifespan that will be the result of preventing aging? Death comes in ways other than aging. It will take a paradise on earth to prevent accidents and to put an end to human aggression don't you think?

You're making another assumption that death is inevitable. No one can say with accuracy that at some point, death itself, the process of ceasing to exist in the physical realm, will some day be a thing of the past. The possibilities are endless, and ONLY limited by how you limit them yourself. I can say with considerable confidence, and even if I never get to experience it myself, that some day, death/deletion/oblivion will no longer be something people have to live their whole entire lives fearing.

If you believe death is inevitable, then it will be inevitable for you. If you believe that there's the potential to do whatever it is your ambitions desire, then you've already proven that nothing is impossible. I think the biggest thing is, religious people live in a world that has boundaries and limits, and therefore you're forced to live a life based on these boundaries and limits. I live in a world where there are no boundaries, no limitations, no roadblocks, only a massive canvas of potential that has hardly even been primed.

[william7]

No drugs either.

Do you abstain from taking prescription medication? Technically still considered 'drugs', and objectively speaking, there's no real difference between prescription drugs and controlled substances, in both instances, you're putting unnatural chemicals in your body.

I refuse to take anytype of unnecessary prescription medication. I'm currently in excellent health so I don't need any type of meds. I gave up drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, junk food, meat sometime ago. I fast and get plenty of exercise.

[platypus]

The Scriptures do promise a paradise on earth which will be good news to the poor, the prisoner, the oppressed, etc. See Luke 4:18-19.

My problem with christianity is that it seems to be the worst possible religion for the majority of souls that ever lived, at least if one believes in the doctrine of hell. This makes the central message of christianity almost evil in my books. Why is the supposed creator of the universe hell-bent on torturing his creations for all eternity just because they were stupid enough for not to believe?

[william7]

That's using the assumption that Atheists believe they're part of a religion, which, the last time I checked, most Atheists would not consider their value/belief system to do with being part of a religion.

That would be the weakness of atheism then. Man needs a stronger than usual value/belief system to overcome the weaknesses in human character. I thought Dawkins and other atheists were consciously trying to create an atheist value/belief system to replace religion?

Atheists, from my experiences, are more concerned with human life, than 'godly' life.

If their ultimate concern is the well-being of human life, atheists should give the God of the Bible's plan for uplifting humanity on earth serious consideration.

Christianity might be the largest at the moment, but I find it arrogant that Christianity claims to have the path of the absolute religion, while all others are faulty and non-absolute. As a contingency plan, Christianity claims to know how it will fall, and that the falling of Christianity has been for told, and there are no alternatives.

Satan's counterfeit Christianity is the largest at the moment. There are no alternatives to the falling of the counterfeit version. There are alternatives for individuals practicing the counterfeit to change over to the true version as it develops.

The only paradise that religion has provided are delusional aspirations of a better life after death.

You're probably still under the false concept of the better life after death of Satan's counterfeit Christianity that that friendly priest taught you when you were young.

Science/Technology has done infinitely more than religion has done to this point, when you consider the tangibles. Science does NOT promise a future paradise land, it promises that if you use your full potential, NOTHING is impossible.

I strongly disagree. You're talking about what can be measured and seen with the eye. There are many benefits and blessings to be gained by practicing God's law and Christ's teachings - even when practiced imperfectly - that cannot be measured or easily seen. Many would say that Science and technology are leading us to destruction. In fact, there is great concern among scientists that this is the case.

No one can say with accuracy that at some point, death itself, the process of ceasing to exist in the physical realm, will some day be a thing of the past.

The Bible prophecies the end of death and suffering. See Revelation 21:3-4.

If you believe death is inevitable, then it will be inevitable for you. If you believe that there's the potential to do whatever it is your ambitions desire, then you've already proven that nothing is impossible. I think the biggest thing is, religious people live in a world that has boundaries and limits, and therefore you're forced to live a life based on these boundaries and limits. I live in a world where there are no boundaries, no limitations, no roadblocks, only a massive canvas of potential that has hardly even been primed.

But there needs to be boundaries and limits in life so all can share in its blessings equally. If you take advantage of or oppress others in the process of going beyond the boundaries and limits, you are putting boundaries and limitations on those individuals. Wouldn't it be better if all people progressed in harmony with one another with the right set of boundaries and limitations?