5 replies to this topic

[unbreakable]

Do you think also "healthy" people should take any of these drugs? Studies show that statins reduce the risk of myocardial infarction and stroke even in people with average or below-average cholesterol levels. Many people have pre-hypertension (120/80 - 139/89), but optimal blood pressure is below 120/80 or 115/75 and possibly people with asymptomatic hypotension are at even lower risk to develop cardiovascular disease. Do you think "healthy" people should take low-dose aspirin to reduce the risk for MI/stroke?

[trh001]

The studies below drew my attention. A recently completed prospective 5 year clinical trial using large numbers (ca. 22,000 healthy male doctors), and a randomized placibo control approach:

Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 2007 Jan 15;175(2):120-5.: "The aspirin component was terminated after 4.9 yr due principally to the emergence of a statistically extreme 44% reduction in risk of first myocardial infarction among those randomly assigned to aspirin."

The above interested me, especially when I found evidence in the literature for a a potential interplaybetween fish oil use and aspirin (thought it does complicate dosing of these individual components, and prospective studies would need to be done, still):

J Exp Med. 2005 Mar 7;201(5):671-4: "New experimental evidence adds resolvin E1 to this group of endogenous inhibitors and provides further rationale for the beneficial effects of dietary supplementation with fish oils. It also highlights an unexpected twist in the pharmacology of aspirin."

J Biol Chem. 2007 Mar 30;282(13):9323-34: Resolvin D1 and its aspirin-triggered 17R epimer. "These results may contribute to the beneficial actions of aspirin and omega-3 fish oils in humans"

The question of proper dosage and frequency of these two items, aspirin, and fish oil, don't seem very clear at present. Something to talk about with one's clinician, and perhaps do additional research on.





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Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 2007 Jan 15;175(2):120-5. Epub 2006 Oct 26. Links
Aspirin and decreased adult-onset asthma: randomized comparisons from the physicians' health study.Barr RG, Kurth T, Stampfer MJ, Buring JE, Hennekens CH, Gaziano JM.
Division of General Medicine, Department of Medicine, Columbia University Medical Center, New York, NY, USA.

RATIONALE: In an observational cohort study, women who self-selected for frequent aspirin use developed less newly diagnosed asthma than women who did not take aspirin. OBJECTIVE: To explore whether low-dose aspirin decreased the risk of newly diagnosed asthma in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. METHODS: The Physicians' Health Study randomized 22,071 apparently healthy male physicians, aged 40-84 yr at baseline and tolerant of aspirin, over an 18-wk run-in period, to 325 mg aspirin or placebo on alternate days. The aspirin component was terminated after 4.9 yr due principally to the emergence of a statistically extreme 44% reduction in risk of first myocardial infarction among those randomly assigned to aspirin. MEASUREMENTS: Physicians could self-report an asthma diagnosis on questionnaires at baseline, 6 mo, and annually thereafter. Asthma was not an a priori endpoint of the trial. RESULTS: Among 22,040 physicians without reported asthma at randomization, there were 113 new asthma diagnoses in the aspirin group and 145 in the placebo group. The hazard ratio was 0.78 (95% confidence interval, 0.61-1.00; p = 0.045). This apparent 22% lower risk of newly diagnosed asthma among those assigned to aspirin was not modified by baseline characteristics including smoking, body mass index, or age. CONCLUSIONS: Aspirin reduced the risk of newly diagnosed adult-onset asthma in a large, randomized clinical trial of apparently healthy, aspirin-tolerant men. This result requires replication in randomized trials designed a priori to test this hypothesis; it does not imply that aspirin improves symptoms in patients with asthma.

PMID: 17068328 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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J Exp Med. 2005 Mar 7;201(5):671-4. Links
Controlling inflammation: a fat chance?Flower RJ, Perretti M.
The William Harvey Research Institute, London EC1M 6BQ, UK. r.j.flower@qmul.ac.uk

The inflammatory response protects the body against infection and injury but can itself become deregulated with deleterious consequences to the host. It is now clear that several endogenous biochemical pathways activated during defense reactions can counterregulate inflammation. New experimental evidence adds resolvin E1 to this group of endogenous inhibitors and provides further rationale for the beneficial effects of dietary supplementation with fish oils. It also highlights an unexpected twist in the pharmacology of aspirin.

PMID: 15753201 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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J Biol Chem. 2007 Mar 30;282(13):9323-34. Epub 2007 Jan 23. Links
Resolvin D1 and its aspirin-triggered 17R epimer. Stereochemical assignments, anti-inflammatory properties, and enzymatic inactivation.Sun YP, Oh SF, Uddin J, Yang R, Gotlinger K, Campbell E, Colgan SP, Petasis NA, Serhan CN.
Center for Experimental Therapeutics and Reperfusion Injury, Department of Anesthesiology, Perioperative and Pain Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA.

We recently uncovered two new families of potent docosahexaenoic acid-derived mediators, termed D series resolvins (Rv; resolution phase interaction products) and protectins. Here, we assign the stereochemistry of the conjugated double bonds and chirality of alcohols present in resolvin D1 (RvD1) and its aspirin-triggered 17R epimer (AT-RvD1) with compounds prepared by total organic synthesis. In addition, docosahexaenoic acid was converted by a single lipoxygenase in a "one-pot" reaction to RvD1 in vitro. The synthetic compounds matched the physical and biological properties of those enzymatically generated. RvD1 proved to be 7S,8R,17S-trihydroxy-4Z,9E,11E,13Z,15E,19Z-docosahexaenoic acid, AT-RvD1 matched 7S,8R,17R-trihydroxy-4Z,9E,11E,13Z,15E,19Z-docosahexaenoic acid, and they both stopped transendothelial migration of human neutrophils (EC(50) approximately 30 nM). In murine peritonitis in vivo, RvD1 and AT-RvD1 proved equipotent (at nanogram dosages), limiting polymorphonuclear leukocyte infiltration in a dose-dependent fashion. RvD1 was converted by eicosanoid oxidoreductase to novel 8-oxo- and 17-oxo-RvD1 that gave dramatically reduced bioactivity, whereas enzymatic conversion of AT-RvD1 was sharply reduced. These results establish the complete stereochemistry and actions of RvD1 and AT-RvD1 as well as demonstrate the stereoselective basis for their enzymatic inactivation. RvD1 regulates human polymorphonuclear leukocyte transendothelial migration and is anti-inflammatory. When its carbon 17S alcohol is enzymatically converted to 17-oxo-RvD1, it is essentially inactive, whereas the 17R alcohol configuration in its aspirin-triggered form (AT-RvD1) resists rapid inactivation. These results may contribute to the beneficial actions of aspirin and omega-3 fish oils in humans.

PMID: 17244615 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[shaggy]

I currently take red yeast rice which has statin like properties. Not sure how effective current RYR supplements are though as they are not standardised anymore. Not keen on taking pharmacy statins as they do seem to come with a number of unpleasant side effects.

As regards beta blockers, from the literature I've read Carvedilol looks very interesting. It does seem by far the most effective beta blocker, with minimal side effects and excellent anti-oxidant properities too. There is also no negative effect on lipids or blood glucose which is common with other b/b's.

Low dose aspirin's a good idea, not sure about ACE inhibitors though, never looked at those before.

[sUper GeNius]

I currently take red yeast rice which has statin like properties.  Not sure how effective current RYR supplements are though as they are not standardised anymore.  Not keen on taking pharmacy statins as they do seem to come with a number of unpleasant side effects.

As regards beta blockers, from the literature I've read Carvedilol looks very interesting.  It does seem by far the most effective beta blocker, with minimal side effects and excellent anti-oxidant properities too.  There is also no negative effect on lipids or blood glucose which is common with other b/b's.

Low dose aspirin's a good idea, not sure about ACE inhibitors though, never looked at those before.

Read recently where certain ACE inhibitors that are able to cross the blood/brain barrier lessen the risk of Alzheimers.

[PWAIN]

Sorry for the duplicate post but I think this is relevent to both threads.

I've been planning to see how things play out before posting but given what has been discussed here, I thin I should post now.

After getting a fairly high result for cholesterol in a recent blood test, I started taking Doctors Best Red Yeast Rice at 1200mg per day. The idea was as a precautionary measure. I would take it for 3 months, get another blood test and deciede from there on future dose or use. I had been taking 100mg of CoQ10 and 50mg of Ubiquinol for several months before and continued this.

About a week ago, I woke up with a bit of lower back pain on my RHS. Went back to sleep and thought that it would fade during the day ie. probably sleeping in a bad position. It didn't fade but got worse. It was still bothering me a couple of days later. Massaging it made it feel much worse. I decieded to review any new supplements I had recently started. There on the RYR bottle was something about stopping immediately if muscle pain was experienced.

A bit of research on the web revealed that a serious condition could occur (called rhabdomyolysis) that was of some concern. No way to know for sure of course but as a precaution, I followed the advice given to treat this condition since there was little to it other than keeping hydration levels very high. (Note my urine colour was normal which I took to mean that if it was rhabdomyolysis, it was not particuarly severe althouth I did monitor it carefully) I also took a small amount of bicarb as this was another suggestion I read about and I figured that bicarb is pretty harmless. I also doubled my dose of CoQ10 and Ubiquinol for about 3 days. I discontinued drinking milk to reduce my calcium intake as I read somewhere that the breakdown of muscle may flood my system with calcium. I discontinued Vitamin D3 supplementation as I read of an interaction with it. I also discontinued Pommegranite suplementation as I read about a possible link with that. Finally I discontinued my multi as it has a small amount of Bioprene.

Anyway more recently a few new symptoms have come along. The pain in my back is quite reduced (but is somewhat itchy). There is however moderate pain (more of an ache really - especially when I walk) in my hip. I also have numbness down the front of my leg and towards the backof my leg. I also have more pronounced numbness in the strip leading from my waist/side to my groin area. (Fortunately it has not spread from there:). The numbness is hard to describe and it does vary slightly from time to time. Although it is numb, there is some sense of pain - it reminds me of when anasthetic used by dentists is wearing off and there is a tingling, somewhat painful sensation. It is more prominant in the bit leading to the groin and then next would be the bit towards the back of the leg.

About 3 days ago, I moticed what looked like a patch where what appeared to be multiple mosquito bites appeared. I figured that I had been bitten multiple times and because it is numb, didn't know. Strange thing is that I can feel the itchyness when it is touched, it is a very intense sensation. I now have what looks like 3 mosquito bites in the area leading to the groin. Still not certain of the cause or if it is related.

I have been to see my doctor and told her about what has happened. She did not appear to know what RYR is so I explained that it is a statin analogue (not technically true as it contains real lipitor afaik so is a real statin). She seemed somewhat less concerned than I would have expected and indicated that I should wait a bit and see how it plays out. She didn't seem that convinced that it was a reaction to RYR. I will be seeing her again shortly on an unrelated issue and will push the whole issue a lot harder. I am not sure that anything can be done at this stage.

Here is what I am guessing might have happened but it is pure speculation and worth as much. The RYR was amplified by a number of other supps I was taking (Bioprene, Pomegranite, Resveratrol? Vitamin d3?) and as a result was effectivly a much higher dose. This caused a muscle reaction in my muscle near my lower back (could this be due to proximity to liver?) the reaction was caught early so did not result in the catastrophic effects of rhabdomyolysis but never the less did some damage to the muscle tissue. A nerve running from my spine, through this muscle and then splitting up 3 or 4 ways was somehow damaged by this process and the numbing is a result of this (and pain/aches in my hip). The sores may be due to lack of reaction due to numbness. The pain that is evident through the numbness is probably because the nerve is damaged and not severed. If all this is true, I am slightly hopeful that the nerve can eventually recover (a previously damaged nerve in one of my fingers (in an unrelated incident involving crushing) took over a year to heal but it did eventually come right so it is possible).

I am not sure how long this will go on for or even if it is permanent but I really hope not. Clearly I am not going to be taking RYR again unless I can be 100% certain that it was not the cause. As I say, I have no proof that RYR caused this but it seems too co-incidental to be ignored as a likely cause. I am certainly considering possible back problems as the cause but thought I should mention that this is one explanation I am confronting. That is the reason I was wanting to delay this post as I hoped to have more evidence one way or the other.

I WOULD URGE EXTREEM CAUTION BEFORE CONSIDERING RED YEAST RICE.

You probably will not have the same reaction but it certainly worth bearing in mind. I am not one who normally reacts to medication and seldom experience any side effects. There is always an exception out there though.

I have 6 bottles of RYR that is going to go to waste but it is a small price to pay for my leg. I will continue with phytosterols and beta glucan to help keep my cholesterol down and am planning to be more active to try reduce cholesterol.

I hope my experience and this description is of use to some. I don't have an agenda, just a sense of caution and of feeling rather stupid. Please excuse any technical inaccuracies and if correcting me please bear in mind that I don't claim any expert status I am just doing my best. Hopefully my doctor will be more helpful next time I visit.

[trh001]

It can't hurt to have yourself tested for lyme disease, given the "bites", and you might want to consider talking with your doctor about sciatica (see below).

Best, T-

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"One or more of the following sensations may occur as a result of sciatica:

Pain in the rear or leg that is worse when sitting

Burning or tingling down the leg

Weakness, numbness or difficulty moving the leg or foot

A constant pain on one side of the rear

A shooting pain that makes it difficult to stand up

Low back pain may be present along with the leg pain, but usually the low back pain is less severe than the leg pain."

http://www.spine-hea...atica/sc01.html