15 replies to this topic

[maxwatt]

In another thread on resveratrol, Psychenaut wrote:

....

More and more I am liking what I learn about polyphenols in general, and how I feel after regular use of them, that is why I also use our EgCG Green Tea Extract (let's bust some beta amyloid plaques!) and personally believe there is synergy to be had when using multiple phenols (Resveratrol EgCG, Curcumin).

I also know some smart people (not me, I am a business guy, not a chemistry guy) believe the latest evidence is pointing to benefits from "spike" dosing of certain materials (R-lipoic acid, resveratrol). In other words, obtaining a spike in plasma levels to flip some metabolic switches, with benefits accruing even after plasma levels retreat. This is a speculative anecdotal comment, I don't have reference studies.

As everyone knows, the science is ever evolving. We are fortunate to live in a time where it is easily and widely shared.
....

Pete

Pete: I thought this would be worthy of another thread, as I think you would be very knowledgeable in this area.

EgCG, as you said, has potential for preventing Alzheimer's by breaking up beta amyloind plaques. One might want to be assured of an extract with low caffeine content, and there may be an upper limit on the amount one should take.

Pomegranite extracts should have the same arteriosclerosis reversing effects as the juice; Rosemary extracts are a more effective antioxidant than BHT (remember when people took BHT on the theory its anti-oxidant effect would be life-extending?)

Sea Buckthorn is another promising phytochemical.

What other phytochemicals could you bring to our attention for their possible benefits?

[health_nutty]

Well this won't be news to anyone here but cocoa and blueberries should be on the list.

[ajnast4r]

Avenanthramides in oats
Sulforaphane in broccoli
2"-O-glycosylisovitexin in barley grass

[malbecman]

Right, cocoa is a big one but more specifically, I think it is the epicatechin in the cocoa (the major phenolic). Now if I could only find a source...... [lol]

(I do know that many of the Green Tea extracts which have EGCG as their main component do have epicatechin at about 5-10% concentration, relative to EGCG.)

Well this won't be news to anyone here but cocoa and blueberries should be on the list.

[krillin]

Right, cocoa is a big one but more specifically, I think it is the epicatechin in the cocoa (the major phenolic).  Now if I could only find a source......

40% polyphenol extract

[psychenaut]

I eat blueberries every morning, currently fresh and in season here in California. Get them from the Farmers Market. Otherwise Trader Joes has some nice boreal wild ones from (beautiful) Canada, and an organic choice too.

Chocolate has certainly been getting some good publicity, and the darker the better if it is polyphenols you are after.

So Healthnutty pointed out two good choices.

Maxwatt, thanks for quote. Regarding EgCG, I have spoken to, and currently sell our EgCG to, several of the people who were in Mayo's CLL study with EgCG, and none of them had any liver function abnormalities. In their words: "it suggests a new, nontoxic treatment." I personally use EgCG at 714 mg once daily, and my Liver Function Test from 2 months ago was a-ok.

There is was also a PK study at UA Tucson that concluded "it is safe for healthy individuals to take green tea polyphenol products in amounts equivalent to the EGCG content in 8-16 cups of green tea once a day or in divided doses twice a day for 4 weeks."

As Maxwatt noted, and especially when used at higher doses, it is important to consider caffeine load, which while noted to be helpful for absorption and higher bioavailabiltiy, can result in jitters and sleep disruption. Relentless Improvement EgCG was carefully formulated to balance these concerns, and contains only 8mg per capsule (an average drip coffee contains 115-175 mg caffeine per cup) .

EgCG reduction of beta-amyloid plaques (found in Alzheimers patients) is discussed in this study from U of FL. "'A new generation of dietary supplements containing pure EGCG may lead to the greatest benefit for treating Alzheimer's disease.'"

Humans would need a daily dose of 1,500 to 1,600 mg of EGCG to approximate the level that had a positive impact on mice."

Note the comment: "Dr. Doug Shytle, who also worked on the study, said: "This finding suggests that green tea extract selectively concentrating EGCG would be needed to override the counteractive effect of other flavonoids found in green tea."

This is one of the reasons I chose to introduce one of the most pure EgCG products currently available anywhere in the world. Extracted using a unique chloroform-free method which results in a very pure product with no chance of residual extraction solvents. Each capsule contains ~357 mg of EgCG from a 99% extract.

Curcumin has some very interesting research now, and I know Geronova is especially friendly towards it and even formulated a lipoic acid/curcumin mixture.

It is my opinion that if one chooses to explore high doses of these materials, it is critical to be aware of purity. You would have to live under a rock to be unaware of the huge variations in quality of products on the market right now. Regular or high dose supplement users would be well advised to seek a documented product, so as to quantify and insure quality. As subscribers to Consumer Labs have seen, problem products show up for some very respected suppliers.

Pete

[efosse]

I must recommend the BEST tasting 100% cocoa chocolate bar I have ever tasted. It is like candy (though keep in mind it has no sugar, only cocoa and cocoa butter). The bar is Le Pralus 100%. I eat this and I don't even want candy or ice cream!

Edited by efosse, 16 August 2007 - 06:26 AM.

[krillin]

I personally use EgCG at 714 mg once daily, and my Liver Function Test from 2 months ago was a-ok.

There is was also a PK study at UA Tucson that concluded "it is safe for healthy individuals to take green tea polyphenol products in amounts equivalent to the EGCG content in 8-16 cups of green tea once a day or in divided doses twice a day for 4 weeks."

EgCG reduction of beta-amyloid plaques (found in Alzheimers patients) is discussed in this study from U of FL. "'A new generation of dietary supplements containing pure EGCG may lead to the greatest benefit for treating Alzheimer's disease.'"

Humans would need a daily dose of 1,500 to 1,600 mg of EGCG to approximate the level that had a positive impact on mice."

To tidy things up, I'll note that the UA Tucson study used 800 mg: a little more than Pete's dose and probably as high as you'd want to go without careful monitoring. 1600 mg would be rather risky.

[DukeNukem]

I'm a huge fan of polyphenols, including those from extra virgin olive oil, blueberries, wolfberries (shown to raise SOD levels), cocoa, grape seed, pomegranate, white tea (more potent than green tea), cherries, pine bark (Pycongenol), ginger, cilantro, various green vegetables like broccoli, on and on and on (including resveratrol for several years). Probably one-third my supplementation is in this area.

[orbital]

But... How can the potential positive effects of high EGCG be evaluated against the possible SIRT1 inhibition when deciding on any regimen revision?

[ajnast4r]

basically every fruit vegetable herb and whole grain has valuable phytochemicals lol

[maxwatt]

But... How can the potential positive effects of high EGCG be evaluated against the possible SIRT1 inhibition when deciding on any regimen revision?

The paper showing EGCG inhibited SirT1 was performed in vitro, in an oxygen rich atmosphere. The abstract stated that under "stabilizing conditions" EGCG did not inhibit SirT1. (I assume "stabilizing conditions" referes to the presence of an anti oxidant. I haven't read the paper, but this was reported to me by one who did.)

In body tissues where EGCG would act, the oxygen content is about 5%.

Therefore it is not clear to me that EGCG inhibits SirT1 in vivo. In fact, it seems probable that it does not.

While I do not supplement with green tea extract, I do drink a LOT of green tea.

[platypus]

I drink one cup of powdered Japanese green tea (matcha) every working day. I love the stuff, the polyphenol content must be huge as the drink looks like dark green paint. What is the source of the green colour btw, quercetin and chlorophyllin I presume?

[krillin]

Here's a quick summary:

EGCG stimulates SIRT1.

EGCG + superoxide = EGCG dimer + H2O2

EGCG dimer is inert. H2O2 inhibits SIRT1.

Vitamin C quenches both superoxide and H2O2, and thus prevents both EGCG dimerization and SIRT1 inhibition, so you get SIRT1 stimulation.

Catalase quenches only H2O2, so you don't get stimulation or inhibition.

SOD only quenches superoxide, so it'll prevent EGCG dimerization but won't protect against H2O2.

[orbital]

Thanks for the enlightening responses, guys!

[wydell]

How about adding Rooibos to the list for some more diversity:

http://greentealover...althrooibos.htm