11 replies to this topic

[Live Forever]

Anyone else think this sounds extremely logical? (not perfect, but at least more logical than the current US system)

http://video.google....323583494421392

Edited by Live Forever, 06 December 2007 - 07:27 AM.

[Live Forever]

I just submitted it to digg, by the way:
http://digg.com/vide...ica_Documentary

If anyone happened to feel compelled to digg or anything. )

[modelcadet]

I have an idea for changing the educational system in a neo-libertarian way. I still need to work out many basics, but I see a huge need for my solution to the 'problems' of education, including socialized education.

I'm probably going to buy domain space for it in a few weeks and get a few more people solidly on board, after which I'll file for non-profit status and start fleshing out details. From listening to politicians blather about our failing schools without offering real solutions to the problem, to observing the power of the new economy (and what I'm referring to as neo-libertarianism, although that term is probably already monopolized by something less cool).

Ed. Yep, it is. And it's quite a bastard.

[Mind]

Well, the current system in the U.S. is poor. Some changes are necessary. Something more open-source and freedom-based would seem to be a good move.

[Live Forever]

Well, the video made the digg front page. Yay.

It is actually the second time it has done so. The one I uploaded to YouTube a long time ago made it to the digg front page awhile back. http://digg.com/vide...id_in_America_2

But another time doesn't hurt anything. )

[Liquidus]

Canada was #7 on the list, haha suckers

Bow down to your intellectual superiors (kidding)

I do feel bad for crappy education systems though, if the kids actually go to school, they're not really learning anything beneficial.

[lucid]

I havent read the entire report but here is a reasonable counter argument:

http://nces.ed.gov/p...p?pubid=2006461

This study compares mean 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) reading and mathematics scores of public and private schools in 4th and 8th grades, statistically controlling for individual student characteristics (such as gender, race/ethnicity, disability status, identification as an English language learner) and school characteristics (such as school size, location, and the composition of the student body). In grades 4 and 8, using unadjusted mean scores, students in private schools scored significantly higher than students in public schools for both reading and mathematics. But when school means were adjusted in the HLM analysis, the average for public schools was significantly higher than the average for private schools for grade 4 mathematics and not significantly different for reading. At grade 8, the average for private schools was significantly higher than the average for public schools in reading but not significantly different for mathematics. Comparisons were also carried out between types of sectarian schools. In grade 4, Catholic and Lutheran schools were compared separately to public schools. For both reading and mathematics, the results were similar to those based on all private schools. In grade 8, Catholic, Lutheran, and Conservative Christian schools were each compared to public schools. For Catholic and Lutheran schools for both reading and mathematics, the results were again similar to those based on all private schools. For Conservative Christian schools, the average adjusted school mean in reading was not significantly different from that of public schools. In mathematics, the average adjusted school mean for Conservative Christian schools was significantly lower than that of public schools.

I would like to see analysis broken down in terms of: Cost of school per student & Income of student parent. I expect private schools do better along those parameters. The analysis they do seems it could heavily skew things... controlling for that many factors via matching can get dumb.

[Karomesis]

Well, the current system in the U.S. is poor. Some changes are necessary. Something more open-source and freedom-based would seem to be a good move.

agreed Mind.

Open source is the future, and coincidentally it's how I learned most of my information [glasses]

[AaronCW]

Fabulous. Stossel is the man for this kind of job, I always enjoy these specials. You don't see this on the airwaves anywhere else. He's currently working on a special about health care featuring an interview with Michael Moore, look forward to it.

[Live Forever]

Fabulous. Stossel is the man for this kind of job, I always enjoy these specials. You don't see this on the airwaves anywhere else. He's currently working on a special about health care featuring an interview with Michael Moore, look forward to it.

Oh good. Even being a libertarian, I realize that there are a lot of problems with the health care system in the US, but I don't like Moore's suggestion of more socialization.

[william7]

Trying to reform the school system is like trying to reform capitalism: it can't be done satisfactorily for all. Only the few benefit from the reforms whereas the majority continue to suffer. Even when the suffering of the majority is alleviated, it's never enough to do the job fully.

Put me down as being in favor of a communal education for children. On page 126 of the book Kibbutz Goshen: An Israeli Commune it says:

... the fact that no delinquency, sexual aberrations or child neglect are to be found within its domain, that the incidence of emotional disturbances is low, that the physical, intellectual and ethical standards of the pupils are commendable, is a source of encouragement and evidence of substantial achievement. It is also our warrant for attempting to present communal education to a wider public.

Quite a bit more of an education is needed than what is generally taught in public and private schools.

I would like to know how much bad diet and obesity, excessive amounts of negative television programming, and bad parenting goes into the poor performance of children in the schools. There's a limit to what good teachers and good school programs can accomplish.

problems with the health care system in the US

If people would live healthy lifestyles, they wouldn't need health care from an abusive health care system. Living a healthy lifestyle is the only practical solution in my opinion.

[Live Forever]

Trying to reform the school system is like trying to reform capitalism: it can't be done satisfactorily for all. Only the few benefit from the reforms whereas the majority continue to suffer. Even when the suffering of the majority is alleviated, it's never enough to do the job fully.

I completely disagree with this. You are making broad generalizations. Free markets almost always get the job done better, and capitalism is the best way to achieve what the people want. (by definition in fact) I would almost defy you to point to a situation where a free market (unhindered by governmental interference) has worked out badly.

Put me down as being in favor of a communal education for children. On page 126 of the book Kibbutz Goshen: An Israeli Commune it says:

1) I seriously doubt that a communal system works out better than any other on a small scale like that, but even given that they would, 2) I know for a fact that communist education systems work out poorly on a large scale as has been evidenced by comparing every instance of it ever undertaken, lol.

I would like to know how much bad diet and obesity, excessive amounts of negative television programming, and bad parenting goes into the poor performance of children in the schools. There's a limit to what good teachers and good school programs can accomplish.

If people would live healthy lifestyles, they wouldn't need health care from an abusive health care system. Living a healthy lifestyle is the only practical solution in my opinion.

I am not going to say poor health has no effect, but unless you are suggesting forcing people to become healthy (at which point I don't think you would have anyone supporting your system) then talking about the education system is a separate argument. I do think that the food they serve in schools is pretty bad overall, but yet again, if there was a free market system (as described in the video) there would be an incentive for parents to go to schools with better lunch programs (if it was something that they found important).