22 replies to this topic

[biknut]

How this 12inch miracle tube could halve heating bills
Amazing British invention creates MORE energy than you put into it - and could soon be warming your home


Last updated at 21:09pm on 15th September 2007

It sounds too good to be true - not to mention the fact that it violates almost every known law of physics.

But British scientists claim they have invented a revolutionary device that seems to 'create' energy from virtually nothing.

Their so-called thermal energy cell could soon be fitted into ordinary homes, halving domestic heating bills and making a major contribution towards cutting carbon emissions.

Even the makers of the device are at a loss to explain exactly how it works - but sceptical independent scientists carried out their own tests and discovered that the 12in x 2in tube really does produce far more heat energy than the electrical energy put in.

The device seems to break the fundamental physical law that energy cannot be created from nothing - but researchers believe it taps into a previously unrecognised source of energy, stored at a sub-atomic level within the hydrogen atoms in water.

The system - developed by scientists at a firm called Ecowatts in a nondescript laboratory on an industrial estate at Lancing, West Sussex - involves passing an electrical current through a mixture of water, potassium carbonate (otherwise known as potash) and a secret liquid catalyst, based on chrome.

This creates a reaction that releases an incredible amount of energy compared to that put in. If the reaction takes place in a unit surrounded by water, the liquid heats up, which could form the basis for a household heating system.

If the technology can be developed on a domestic scale, it means consumers will need much less energy for heating and hot water - creating smaller bills and fewer greenhouse gases.

Jim Lyons, of the University of York, independently evaluated the system. He said: 'Let's be honest, people are generally pretty sceptical about this kind of thing. Our team was happy to take on the evaluation, even if to prove it didn't work.

'But this is a very efficient replacement for the traditional immersion heater. We have examined this interesting technology and when we got the rig operating, we were getting 150 to 200 per cent more energy out than we put in, without trying too hard.

http://www.dailymail...in_page_id=1965

[Luna]

Free Energy Device number.. sorry I stopped counting.

Not interesting untill there is a true validation we can see.

[Johan]

I agree with winterbreeze. There have been far too many of these things to make this one more believeable than the others. I'm sure quite a few of us still have the most recent "free energy device" created by Steorn fresh in mind...

Anyway, here's the picture from the article explaining how this one works:

Notice the "secret catalyst".

[biknut]

This is how we'll know if it's a fake, someone will test, and expose it as such.

This is how we'll know if it's real, we'll never hear another thing about it ever again.

[Live Forever]

This is how we'll know if it's a fake, someone will test, and expose it as such.

This is how we'll know if it's real, we'll never hear another thing about it ever again.

We will know it is real if it is front page news on every paper after being verified. Alas, that ain't gonna happen, as with 100% of the millions of these sorts of claims that have come before.

[Brainbox]

Secret catalyst

Are magnets involved in any way perhaps? [wis]

[Live Forever]

Secret catalyst

Are magnets involved in any way perhaps? [wis]

I am thinking magnetic Chiu rings.

[spins]

Hmmm ... electrical current passes between an anode and cathode you say? Potassium Carbonate is an electrolyte (often used in cold fusion experiments) and a secret catalyst you say? Sounds like a glorified fuel cell to me so the extra energy will be coming from a chemical reaction between the secret catalyst and the water (presumably), at some point the reactant will need replacing, no free energy thus no laws broken I'm afraid. [tung]

[niner]

This sounds like a hydrino device. A few years ago there was a lot of press about a company in New Jersey ( http://www.blackligh...m/profile.shtml ) that claims to have discovered a new electronic state of hydrogen, WAY below the traditional 1s ground state. It can only be attained through some sort of resonance transfer with another species that has a very similarly spaced transition. 13.2 eV comes to mind, but don't quote me on it. Anyway, one such species was potassium ions, derived from the carbonate. This would occur in a plasma, not in solution. I looked over some of their reported spectroscopic evidence, and if it was fake, they at least faked the right things and did it well. Physicists from several labs with decent reputations have checked it out and come away impressed. Someone has invested a bunch of money. ($50M) I think it was Westinghouse. There are also publications in real journals. The company seems to be bent on proving the science, and you can bet that when someone claims there is an undiscovered groundstate below 1s, they are going to get a lot of flack from the physics community. Things like this are so toxic in the conventional science community that most people won't touch them with a ten foot pole. It's like instant career suicide. I found the story interesting a couple years ago but didn't follow it. I've heard no big news. If it pans out, it will change the world. If not, no one will be surprised. There's a lot of stuff on the website- they're very open about the science.

[spins]

Yeah anything like this tends to get rejected by mainstream science because there have been so many failures. It's also the reason why physicists don't use the term cold fusion anymore when referring to Muon-catalyzed fusion, anything to try and disassociate the science from cold fusion.

[biknut]

When I first read this article it made me think of cold fusion but they were faking me out because they don't mention it at all.

If this technology ever becomes popular I think everyone will refer to it as cold fusion.

[spins]

Unfortunately I don't think it will because "free energy" violates all the known laws of physics, it seems to be a never-ending human obsession because I don't think a year goes by without someone (mistakenly) claiming they have.

As I hinted at earlier, some form of exothermic reaction must be taking place within the secret catalyst that they aren't accounting for, you don't get anything for free, at some point the reactants will need replacing. Sourcing and processing the compounds in the secret catalyst mixture will probably use up more energy than the heater will ever produce. [lol]

As you say though, we'll see I suppose.

[s123]

http://www.dailymail...in_page_id=1965

I don't believe it. A new kind of energy? The physics would have found this energy a long time ago.

[Live Forever]

I see a story like this about 2 or 3 times a year. Nothing ever comes out of them.

[Mind]

Ditto what liveforever said. The free market would prove far beyond a doubt if it is real. No one is "buying" it.

[niner]

I went to the Daily Mail site to check it out, but got sidetracked by the article about Nicole Kidman's transparent dress. With Pictures.

We had a thread about this same device not too long ago.

[Live Forever]

We had a thread about this same device not too long ago.

Matthias just merged them together for us.

[Andrew Shevchuk]

It's disappointing that these kinds of things have developed such a social stigma, because it's clear to me (as an aspiring physicist) that there is a lot about physics we still don't understand. It's not impossible that there is something really going on here, but I won't claim that it's likely. Thermodynamics is a pretty solid subject.

[Luna]

If those stuff REALLY work, why those guys go to the media and not to the science scoiety?

[AdamSummerfield]

The source of this 'miracle heater' must be compromised somehow. Perhaps the writer is confused.