33 replies to this topic

[luv2increase]

I am a 24 year old guy with an interest in living long and healthy. I am 5'9" at 170lbs. I have an extensive, unfortunate drug abuse history yet now on the road to happiness. I have been off hard drugs since I was 21. Since then, I've only indulged in alcohol, caffeine, nicotine containing stuff, and the occasional cannabis. I am currently sober from everything except for what you see below, food, and water (only liquid I drink). I don't drink pop or juices. I only drink distilled, RO, spring, and drinking water. I have never been a big pop drinker or into sweets of any kind. I use all natural body care products as well. Nothing other than food and water comes from the supermarket. I currently do not have any caffeine intake either. I only eat organic fruits (1 lemon, 1 apple, and 1 banana daily) and vegetables--2 salads daily (romaine lettuce and broccoli with EVOO). I wish I could say the same for the meat but that is too expensive. Maybe in the future. I also eat a lot of spicy food and put cayenne pepper on virtually everything that I eat. And no, I never ever have heartburn or anything of the like.


7:00 A.M. Wakeup, 500mg IP6 (inositol hexaphosphate), 1mg Selegiline Citrate
7:20 A.M. Sam-e 200mg, 1mg MethylB12, 1g Vitamin C (ascorbic acid), B-Complex 50mg, 500mg L-Tyrosine, 500mg DLPA
7:40 A.M. 1.4g Piracetam, 500mg ALCAR, 600mg NAC, 300mg ALA, 1g L-Glutamine, half lemon water
8:00 A.M. 1.5g cracked cell wall Chlorella
8:15 A.M. Breakfast, 1 tab Now Adam Multi, 120mg Ginkgo, E-Complex, 200mg Milk Thistle, 500mg TMG
30mg CoQ10, 40mg Idebenone, 250mg Centrophenoxine, 600mg Choline Bitartrate, 5mg AOR Lithium Orotate,
1200IU Vitamin D3, 665mg of Now Curcumin, 1/2 tbsp of Fish Oil

12:20 P.M. Sam-e 200mg, 1mg MethylB12, 1g Vitamin C, 500mg L-Tyrosine, 500mg DLPA
12:40 P.M. 1.4g Piracetam, 500mg ALCAR, 300mg ALA, 1g L-Glutamine
1:10 P.M. Lunch, 110mg Magnesium Citrate, 200mg Milk Thistle, 500mg TMG, 250mg Centrophenoxine, 600mg Choline Bitartrate

5:00 P.M. 500mg IP6 (empty stomach)

5:30 P.M. 1.4g Piracetam, 500mg ALCAR, 300mg ALA, 1g L-Glutamine, 1g Vitamin C

8:00 P.M. Dinner, 1 tab Now Adam Multi, 1 tab Now Cal Citrate (150mg Magnesium Oxide & Aspartate, 300mg Cal Citrate,
7.5mg Zinc, 500mcg Copper, 2.5mg Manganese), 30mg CoQ10, 45mg Idebenone, 200mg Milk Thistle, 120mg Ginkgo,
800 Vitamin D3, 1/2 tbsp of Fish oil

9:00 P.M. 1.5g cracked cell wall chlorella

10:00 P.M. 450mg Now Ashwagandha

11:00 P.M. Bedtime, 1 tab Jarrow Dophilus EPS


The only thing that I do not have right now is the DLPA, Selegiline Citrate, Centrophenoxine, & Lithium Orotate. I decided to start up L-Tyrosine again at 2 X 500mg as seen above. My sleep-wake cycle is currently not as advertised above yet, but I am working towards it.

I am taking 1800mg of Choline Bitartrate until the Centrophenoxine arrives.



The only exercise that I currently get is 20-30 minutes of jogging 4-5 days a week. I will be starting back into resistance training in a few months. I will add micronized creatine monohydrate, whey or brown rice protein, and up my l-glutamine intake upon beginning. I also do cranial electrotherapy stimulation daily, 30 minutes of PEMF (pulse electro-magnetic field) therapy daily, and 5 minutes on the Vibe Machine every other day. On Sundays, I will take a break from all supplementation except for Sam-e and fish oil.

Feel free to ask questions and comment on anything you like

Edited by luv2increase, 21 September 2007 - 08:23 PM.

[hst1]

Nice stack.

What kind of results have you seen? How do you fell about Piracetam?

[luv2increase]

I have just started on this stack actually a little over a week ago. This was after a few months lay-off of supps. Before the lay-off, my stack looked very similar to this. I have always responded really well to the piracetam. Choline bitartrate has been sufficient, but I feel the centrophenoxine will add more than just choline towards my cognitive function. Today, I started the TMG, IP6, and L-tyrosine.

I feel GREAT! I think that I was an under-methylator since I had some of the signs of that and the sam-e, methylb12, and TMG make me feel 'awesome'. I am not over or under stimulated but just right.

Hopefully, I will be able to continue this stack indefinitely while tweaking and adding supps as necessary based of personal feelings and new research and supplement innovations.


edit from original: I have not begun the L-glutamine yet either. I meant to say that but forgot. I also take L-taurine every once in awhile, but I may quit that altogether since it seems to be a little sedating for me for some reason.


After I have everything as put above, I will post the differences in my progress.

[Shepard]

Any particular reason you're not taking the selegiline with food?

[luv2increase]

Any particular reason you're not taking the selegiline with food?

Hmmm. I guess not. Now that I looked at it, I guess I should take it with food. One site said 5 minutes before eating. Thank you for pointing that out! What are your thoughts on this shepard? I am assuming with food, but does it matter if right before or after?

Thanks!

[Shepard]

I always took it with food due to the higher absorption indicated here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

So, I would imagine during or after would be ideal.

[neuroenhanced]

Feel free to ask questions and comment on anything you like

Where you you buy your supplements from?


Edit: Shortened quoted text - cnorwood

Edited by cnorwood, 18 December 2007 - 05:42 PM.

[shamus]

I feel GREAT! I think that I was an under-methylator since I had some of the signs of that and the sam-e, methylb12, and TMG make me feel 'awesome'. I am not over or under stimulated but just right.

What lead you to believe that you might be an 'under-methylator'?


& why do you take the IP6?




(Thanks for the regimen luv2, it's yours I'd be most keen about looking into )

[zoolander]

Yes. Selegiline should be taken with food.

I would not take tyrosine and phenylalanine together . They are both Large Neutral Amino Acids (LNAA) that compete at the the blood brain barrier. I've discussed this on many occasions. Take one or the other.

I would also consider taking some vitamin C with NAC. I've read a few papers where vitamin C was used with NAC. The NAC is a precursor to glutathione and the vitamin C prevents glutathione oxidation. Have a look at glutathione metabolism and you will see what I mean. OOp. Just noticed that you take vitamin C 20 minutes before your NAC. That's ok then.

Have you considered the following:
EGCg extract
Rhodiola
Vinpocetine
Melatonin
Acetylcholine esterase Inhibitor (Hyperzine or galantamine)
Antiglycation agents (Benfotiamine, carnosine and others)

To be honest I am surprised that you have overlooked/not included some of the above.

[Spiral Architect]

What's the reasoning behind taking Choline 30 minutes after Piracetam?

[edward]

Acetylcholine esterase Inhibitor (Hyperzine or galantamine)

Zoolander, I'm curious to know why you think someone in their 20's needs an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, or even someone in their early 30's, mainly because I don't take one (I'm 29) because I didn't think that it would be necessary now. From what I understood when I looked into it acetylcholine esterase inhibitors helped with the "here an now" state of memory by boosting acetylcholine levels but their neuroprotective effects were minimal (again this was my conclusion when I looked into taking them, I could be wrong). Just wonder if I am overlooking something.

[zoolander]

That's a good question edward. Taking an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor basically ramps up the cholinergic system.

1: Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 Oct;182(1):170-9. Epub 2005 Sep 29.Click here to read Links
Cholinergic enhancement of episodic memory in healthy young adults.
Grön G, Kirstein M, Thielscher A, Riepe MW, Spitzer M.

Department of Psychiatry, University of Ulm, Leimgrubenweg 12, 89075 Ulm, Germany. georg.groen@medizin.uni-ulm.de

RATIONALE: Acetylcholine esterase (AchE) inhibitors are known to remediate symptoms of Alzheimer's disease. However, only few systematic data exist on the effects of cholinergic treatment on cognitive functions in normal subjects. OBJECTIVE: This study evaluated the effects of donepezil, an inhibitor of AchE, on cognitive performance in young and healthy subjects. METHODS: We used a randomised double-blind parallel group placebo-controlled repeated measures design to investigate changes of cognitive functions in a group of 30 young healthy male subjects (mean age 23.9 years+/-2.24 SD) upon application of donepezil or placebo for 30 days. Attentional and executive functions, visual and verbal short-term and working memory, semantic memory, as well as verbal and visual episodic memory were investigated using an extensive neuropsychological test battery. RESULTS: Time-by-group interactions demonstrated significant drug effects that were specific to episodic memory in both the verbal and visual domain. Additionally, donezepil significantly improved long-term visual episodic recall. In none of the other functions under investigation any significant treatment effects were observed. CONCLUSION: Given this specific drug effect and the well-known relevance of the hippocampal region for episodic memory, we conclude that this region appears to be the major target of cholinergic enhancement in healthy subjects due to long-term inhibition of AchE.

PMID: 16021483 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Note that galantamine and huperzine A are very similar to donepezil

[luv2increase]

Yes. Selegiline should be taken with food.

I would not take tyrosine and phenylalanine together . They are both Large Neutral Amino Acids (LNAA) that compete at the the blood brain barrier. I've discussed this on many occasions. Take one or the other.

I would also consider taking some vitamin C with NAC. I've read a few papers where vitamin C was used with NAC. The NAC is a precursor to glutathione and the vitamin C prevents glutathione oxidation. Have a look at glutathione metabolism and you will see what I mean. OOp. Just noticed that you take vitamin C 20 minutes before your NAC. That's ok then.

Have you considered the following:
EGCg extract
Rhodiola
Vinpocetine
Melatonin
Acetylcholine esterase Inhibitor (Hyperzine or galantamine)
Antiglycation agents (Benfotiamine, carnosine and others)

To be honest I am surprised that you have overlooked/not included some of the above.

I am not using the regimen above anymore. I am taking carnosine now, and the benfotiamine is in the mail. I'll be dosing the carnosine at 1g a day and the benfotiamine at 300mg a day. Also, no more tyrosine. I have phenylalanine on its way. I will be dosing that at 250mg X 3 a day. I'm currently taking 600mg NAC and around 7.5 grams of vitamin C as ascorbic acid.

I take rhodiola and ashwagandha now on an empty stomach 3 times a day.

Green tea extract 95+ BAC is on its way.

I am taking 180mg (60mg X 3) of ginkgo a day along with 20mg (10mg X 2) of vinpocetine as well.

I currently don't see the need for acetylcholine esterase inhibitors. I have centrophenoxine on its way, and I will be dosing that at 500mg (250mg X 2) along with 300-600mg of choline bitartrate a day.

As for the melatonin, I don't like it because I can't sleep will taking it. I don't have any problems sleeping, and I think I'm too young to be taking melatonin anyways.

[luv2increase]

Feel free to ask questions and comment on anything you like

Where you you buy your supplements from?


Edit: Shortened quoted text - cnorwood

cytopharmaonline.com
iherb.com
bulknutrition.com
beyondacenturyonline.com
uniquenutrition.net (this is where I get the centrophenoxine)

[luv2increase]

I feel GREAT! I think that I was an under-methylator since I had some of the signs of that and the sam-e, methylb12, and TMG make me feel 'awesome'. I am not over or under stimulated but just right.

What lead you to believe that you might be an 'under-methylator'?


& why do you take the IP6?




(Thanks for the regimen luv2, it's yours I'd be most keen about looking into )

I'm glad you like it. The IP6 (inositol hexaphosphate) is because it chelates iron from the body. I also take it because I believe it to be good for cancer prevention. It is a great anti-oxidant as well.

I read some threads on mindandmuscle.net and other places which lead me to believe that I am an under-methylator. I take 2mg of methylb12 a day along with 1.5-3g of TMG and 200mg of SAMe a day now, and I feel great. If I were an over-methylator, all this would be sure to make me feel like trash, I believe.

[luv2increase]

What's the reasoning behind taking Choline 30 minutes after Piracetam?

I take choline with a meal and piracetam on an empty stomach.

[luv2increase]

I am currently in the process of adding a lot more stuff to my regimen.

Recently added in the last week is the Diamond V XPC. I am taking 3tsp a day of that and doing well.


I will update my regimen in its entirety within the next 2 weeks.

[zoolander]

Galantamine, donepezil and huperzine are all AChEI and hence they are all from the same family. Just have a look at the research when they discuss AChEI. They will mention all 3 compounds. I haven't got much time at the moment but I'll have a look later for something on it

[DukeNukem]

>>> I think I'm too young to be taking melatonin anyways.

I don't have a link to the article, but one of the leading researchers of melatonin believes that the most benefit is had by starting early in life, to protect and prevent aging of the pineal gland. Something you might want to look into.

[Spiral Architect]

What's the reasoning behind taking Choline 30 minutes after Piracetam?

I take choline with a meal and piracetam on an empty stomach.

Yeah, why?

[MP11]

Just wanted to point out that your multi and milk thistle have some anti-t effects (not enough to be any sort of problem but just to let you know if you didn't). Do you use natural toothpaste and/or mouthwash? Also, why stop choline bitartrate when centrophoxine arrives? I'd like to hear about your experience (or that of anyone else through PM -no thread hijack) with centrophoxine after you start on it; I took it a few times a while ago but stopped because of the DMAE.

[Shepard]

Only Galantamine and L-Huperzine A are nootropics and has several other neuroprotective effects.

And donepezil is just trash?

I heard that some compounds are nootropics because that's what the nootropic companies sell. And someone told me prescription medicines are bad, so they can't be nootropics.

This isn't my area, so I can't say anything with great confidence, but this looks like typical internet selective reasoning.

[zoolander]

Neuroracer I am not arguing that the three compounds mentioned have other properties because they do. Their primary function is as Alzheimer's drugs of the choline esterase inhibitor type.

And donepezil is just trash?

I heard that some compounds are nootropics because that's what the nootropic companies sell. And someone told me prescription medicines are bad, so they can't be nootropics.

This isn't my area, so I can't say anything with great confidence, but this looks like typical internet selective reasoning.

Ah yes. That makes sense now. NeuroRacer = viral marketer.

[Shepard]

Not sure if it's trash but I dont see why a healthy people would take a drug with other far safer and natural options available.
But as you said it's not your area.

Let's see if it's yours.

Can you prove your claims?

[edward]

luv2increase, what is your rationale behind using centrophenoxine as opposed to DMAE, yes this has been discussed before what I want to see why your conclusion wast that the centro was so much better

edit: I guess the same question goes for idebenone vs. COQ10, though in this case you take both, what is your reasoning?

Edited by edward, 28 December 2007 - 06:02 AM.