7 replies to this topic

[rohan]

I'm looking for some "basic essentials" suggestions. I'm a student on a budget, so the 5, 6, 7+ item lists I've seen many of you post are cost prohibitive for me.

What I already own:

- 700 grams of Piracetam
- 2 bottoms of DMAE
- Many bottles of Phosphatidyl Serine (lucked out on, got for free)

I'm hoping someone can tell me what other items might be essential, bearing in mind that I don't have a lot of money to spend. If I could afford another $50 worth of nootropics / suppliments for the next 2 months, what should they be?

I'm writing an LSAT in December. I did well the first time around, but I'm hoping to push up even higher now.

[niner]

If there's one thing I wish I could have started in my 20s, it would be glycation protection. I would have taken benfotiamine and carnosine. I like AOR AGE Amadori as a substitute for straight benfotiamine. Another thing I would have done was more judicious use of sunscreen.

[spacey]

Well I'd throw in a new choline source like CDP-Choline or Alpha-GPC to go with Piracetam, that should be enough alternatively you could throw in Huperzine-A there instead(it's cheaper) although acetylcholinesterase inhibitors are more problematic than cholinergics.

Edited by spacey, 08 October 2007 - 06:12 PM.

[rohan]

I'll admit that I don't have much knowledge of the choline issue, apart from basic understanding that it is important to take along with piracetem.

Three thoughts:

1) Lecithin is a choline source, is it not? Is "drugstore" lecithin a good/bad route to go? I'm not totaly cheap here - I want this to be effective, I just can't afford 5 or 6 different suppliments. If I have to spend some money on a better choline source to make the piracetam effective, I will. I just need to spend smart, and put my money into the suppliments that will give me the greatest returns.

2) Doesn't "neuro PS" (or for that matter most of the products containing phosphatidyl serine) also contain phosphatidyl choline? Is that an adequate source, or no?

It is a bit difficult to deduce the actual amount of phosphatidylcholine in my dosage of neuro PS. I take 4 capsules daily, and that equates to 1,200mg of:
Soy Phospholipids & Glycerides, Phosphatidylcholine, Phosphatidylethanolamine, Phosphatidic Acid, Phosphatidylinositol

How much of that 1,200mg daily is the phosphatidylcholine, I don't know. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the choline issue altogether, and this is irrelevant.

3) Is there a mathematical relationship between the piracetam dosage, and the optimal complementary dosage of choline?

Thanks

[rabagley]

While lecithin is a source of PC, most people don't notice any significant effect from taking even substantial amounts of lecithin. This is in contrast to CDP-Choline where most people do notice a significant effect.

As spacey already mentioned, Huperzine-A can very effectively raise acetylcholine levels, but you should be careful with it since suppressing acetylcholinesterase levels for any length of time is dangerous. However, three points: 1) it is very inexpensive, 2) it is very effective 3) you're only talking about a few months. Take 100mcg the morning of one or two study sessions per week (at most) and also in the morning of the day of any test. You might also schedule 4 weeks on/2 weeks off "holidays" to give your brain a break. If you notice a tendency to insomnia or start feeling manic, the Huperzine-A is probably contributing to that, so cut back immediately.

Very important: Huperzine-A will potentiate (multiply) the effect of any cholinergics you're taking, so if you decide to try taking both, take 1/4 or less the normal recommended dose of any cholinergic and see if you can't find some 50mcg capsules of Huperzine-A as 100mcg will likely be too much.

Sorry I can't help on the piracetam/choline dosage question. I haven't really researched complementary racetam interactions, so I can't be of any use to you there.

[rohan]

Is there an alternative choline source that doesn't carry the dangers of Huperzine-A, but is still relatively effective?

Also, can you give me any ideas with respect to a choline source that I might be able to find locally (retail)? The challenge is that to order anything into Canada is inevitably a 4 week process. That cuts things a bit short. I'm already taking the Piracetam. Presumably I should try to introduce a choline source as soon as I can, and as far in advance of my LSAT as possible. I'm T minus 8 weeks right now, so I don't think ordering it online is a good solution, unless the product is light years ahead of a locally obtainable alternative in effectiveness.

[spacey]

Is there an alternative choline source that doesn't carry the dangers of Huperzine-A, but is still relatively effective?

Also, can you give me any ideas with respect to a choline source that I might be able to find locally (retail)? The challenge is that to order anything into Canada is inevitably a 4 week process. That cuts things a bit short. I'm already taking the Piracetam. Presumably I should try to introduce a choline source as soon as I can, and as far in advance of my LSAT as possible. I'm T minus 8 weeks right now, so I don't think ordering it online is a good solution, unless the product is light years ahead of a locally obtainable alternative in effectiveness.

Huperzine-A is not a choline source, it's an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, there are many differences especially in mechanism of action. It's relatively safe as long as you adjust the dosing accordingly, if you're taking too much then you'll feel it(stiff neck, headaches) and you should simply try to cut down the dosage. Although, like previously mentioned CDP-Choline is a good source of choline for a quite acceptable price.

[rohan]

Huperzine-A is not a choline source, it's an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, there are many differences especially in mechanism of action. It's relatively safe as long as you adjust the dosing accordingly, if you're taking too much then you'll feel it(stiff neck, headaches) and you should simply try to cut down the dosage. Although, like previously mentioned CDP-Choline is a good source of choline for a quite acceptable price.

Ok, I understand.
I'm going to place an order for some stuff from bulk-nutrition. They have CDP Choline at $20 for 60 caps (1 month supply)
They also have "choline citrate" and "choline bitartrate" in bulk; are either of these acceptable instead of the CDP? I like the idea of buying bulk powder, instead of capsules.

Thanks for your help, and sorry to just appear out of nowhere and leach knowledge. I'm not trying to cut corners with respect to doing my own research; I'm just excited to have found nootropics, and look forward to learning more.