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Synthehol Conference


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#1 caston

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:45 AM


In light of all the damage caused our bodies, our property, our environment and relations with each other due to the negative affects of alcohol I would like to propose a conference to discuss a replacement for alcohol that binds to GABA receptors responsible for socialising and relaxation but does not cause loss of co-ordination, agression and sexual impotence.

I strongly believe that alcohol causes age related damage to our bodies yet people who abstain from alcohol miss out on socialisation and partnering opportunties so that something like synthehol could an important and critical tool in increasing public interest in wellbeing and life extension as well as change the way we live in our world in positive and profound ways. In short we need something that will wake humanity up from its drunken stupor quite literally.


The idea is that people can be invited to give talks about various alcohol substitues including the search for a holy grail liquid replacement for alcohol and the bariers to public and government acceptance of a new lifestyle drug.

Ideally particpants will also be able to sample alcohol subsitutes (Syntheholic cocktails and brews) to make the conference more interesting and increase publicity. This requirement may affect the decision of which country in which to hold the conference.

The conference could also be an important networking opportunity for people involved in or interested in life extension.

The conference should be organised far enough ahead so that people can save up for airfares and arrange leave from work well in advance. We need an idea of what to call the conference and should setup a domain name and basic website to get started and register interest.

Here are some links to get started if you have any more please post them.

http://www.newscient...-downsides.html

http://www.technovel...asp?NewsNum=593

http://recipes.howst...m/synthehol.htm

In addition to this it is always encouraged to eat food with alcohol. The same should be said for Synthehol. At the conference we could enjoy a wide and unusal variety of fresh unprocessed produce with health benefits and antioxident properties. The secondary theme of the conference is improving our diets especially in ways that would not require extensive supplementation for an increase in life span and wellbeing. This is not a CR conference though. There can be stuff about CR but I don't want to see it dominate the food aspect of it.

Edited by caston, 11 October 2007 - 10:37 AM.


#2 bgwowk

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:13 AM

Now this place has really gone off the deep end.

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#3 Live Forever

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:44 AM

Synthehol is from Star Trek, right?

Lol, caston you are crazy.

#4 caston

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:52 AM

Yes, it's from Star Trek but there was an article that I linked to above saying there is no reason why we cannot create synthehol now with our present technology.

#5 zoolander

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:55 AM

first we had the dumpster diving and now synthenol? I guess you could do both of these together

#6 theta

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:30 AM

http://www.jci.org/c...ourcetype=HWCIT

http://www.nih.gov/n...5/niaaa-03b.htm

National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)
  EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE
Monday, October 3, 2005
5:00 p.m. ET

E-mail this page
Subscribe      CONTACT:
NIAAA Press Office
301-443-3860

Researchers Shed Light on Anxiety and Alcohol Intake

Scientists have identified a brain mechanism in rats that may play a central role in regulating anxiety and alcohol-drinking. The finding, by researchers supported by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA), part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), could provide important clues about the neurobiology of alcohol-drinking behaviors in humans. A report of the study appears in the October 3, 2005 issue of the Journal of Clinical Investigation.

“This is an intriguing finding,” notes NIAAA Director Ting-Kai Li, M.D. “These experiments, conducted in rats selectively bred to have a high affinity for alcohol, help us address questions about the potential role that anxiety might play in human alcoholism. These molecular studies also may reveal potential targets for therapy of anxiety and alcoholism.”

Some researchers have suggested that high levels of anxiety may predispose some individuals to becoming alcoholic.

Researchers led by Subhash C. Pandey, Ph.D., Associate Professor and director of neuroscience alcoholism research in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Illinois and Jesse Brown VA Medical Center in Chicago, found that “P” rats, a strain bred to prefer alcohol, showed more anxiety-like behaviors and drank more alcohol, than non alcohol-preferring “NP” rats. They measured anxiety in the rats with an apparatus known as an elevated plus-maze, which consists of two open arms and two closed arms connected to a central platform. Anxiety is gauged as a function of the amount of time a rat spends in the closed versus the open arms of the maze during a 5-minute testing period — the greater an animal’s level of anxiety, the less open-arm activity it displays.

Dr. Pandey and his colleagues also found that levels of CREB, a protein involved in a variety of brain functions, were lower in certain brain areas of P rats compared with NP rats. Levels of neuropeptide Y (NPY), a molecule that regulates the function of several neurotransmitters and is known to play a role in anxiety and alcohol-drinking behaviors, also were lower in P rats. One function of CREB is to regulate the production of NPY.

“Compared to NP rats, levels of CREB and NPY were innately lower in the central amygdala and medial amygdala of P rats,” explains Dr. Pandey, “brain areas which play a crucial role in anxiety behaviors and which have been shown previously to be involved in rewarding, reinforcing, and motivational aspects of alcohol drinking behaviors. And turning off CREB function in the central amygdala of NP rats makes them look like P rats — more anxious and thus more likely to drink.”

Alcohol intake reduced anxiety-like behaviors in the P rats, an effect that was associated with increased CREB function and NPY production in the central and medial amygdala. And by administering compounds that promote CREB function and NPY production in the central amygdala, researchers were able to reduce anxiety — and alcohol intake — in P rats. On the other hand, by disrupting CREB function (and the concomitant NPY production) in the central amygdala of NP rats, the researchers were able to provoke anxiety-like behavior and promote alcohol intake in those animals.

Dr. Pandey and his colleagues proposed that decreased CREB-dependent NPY production in the central amygdala might be a pre-existing condition for anxiety and alcohol-drinking behaviors.

“Our findings implicate this pathway in genetic predisposition to high anxiety and alcohol-drinking behaviors of P rats,” says Dr. Pandey. “Future studies should explore the relationship of other CREB-related compounds to these phenomena in P rats or other animal models.”

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, a component of the National Institutes of Health, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, conducts and supports approximately 90 percent of the U.S. research on the causes, consequences, prevention, and treatment of alcohol abuse, alcoholism, and alcohol problems and disseminates research findings to general, professional, and academic audiences. Additional alcohol research information and publications are available at www.niaaa.nih.gov.

The National Institutes of Health (NIH) — The Nation's Medical Research Agency — includes 27 Institutes and Centers and is a component of the U. S. Department of Health and Human Services. It is the primary Federal agency for conducting and supporting basic, clinical, and translational medical research, and it investigates the causes, treatments, and cures for both common and rare diseases.


The neuropeptide Y Y1 receptor subtype is necessary for the anxiolytic-like effects of neuropeptide Y, but not the antidepressant-like effects of fluoxetine, in mice.
Karlsson RM, Choe JS, Cameron HA, Thorsell A, Crawley JN, Holmes A, Heilig M.

Laboratory of Clinical and Translational Studies, NIH, National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, NIH, 10 Center Drive, 1-15330, Bethesda, MD, 20892-1375, USA.

RATIONALE: Neuropeptide Y (NPY) is implicated in the pathophysiology of affective illness. Multiple receptor subtypes (Y1R, Y2R, and Y5R) have been suggested to contribute to NPY's effects on rodent anxiety and depression-related behaviors. OBJECTIVES: To further elucidate the role of Y1R in (1) NPY's anxiolytic-like effects and (2) fluoxetine's antidepressant-like and neurogenesis-inducing effects. METHODS: Mice lacking Y1R were assessed for spontaneous anxiety-like behavior (open field, elevated plus-maze, and light/dark exploration test) and Pavlovian fear conditioning, and for the anxiolytic-like effects of intracerebroventricularly (icv)-administrated NPY (elevated plus-maze). Next, Y1R -/- were assessed for the antidepressant-like effects of acute fluoxetine in the forced swim test and chronic fluoxetine in the novelty-induced hypophagia test, as well as for chronic fluoxetine-induced hippocampal neurogenesis. RESULTS: Y1R -/- exhibited largely normal baseline behavior as compared to +/+ littermate controls. Intraventricular administration of NPY in Y1R -/- mice failed to produce the normal anxiolytic-like effect in the elevated plus-maze test seen in +/+ mice. Y1R mutant mice showed higher immobility in the forced swim test and longer latencies in the novelty-induced hypophagia test. In addition, Y1R -/- mice responded normally to the acute and chronic effects of fluoxetine treatment in the forced swim test and the novelty-induced hypophagia test, respectively, as well as increased neuronal precursor cell proliferation in the hippocampus. CONCLUSIONS: These data demonstrate that Y1R is necessary for the anxiolytic-like effects of icv NPY, but not for the antidepressant-like or neurogenesis-inducing effects of fluoxetine. The present study supports targeting Y1R as a novel therapeutic target for anxiety disorders.

PMID: 17891380 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]


NPY Y1R agonist might work.

#7 zoolander

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:37 AM

UUmmmm.....what about not drinking and going with the flow? If your an introvert and not the social type then why fight that. Wait for people to come to you. If you want to become more social then practice some conversational skills.

JEESUS!

#8 caston

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:59 AM

UUmmmm.....what about not drinking and going with the flow? If your an introvert and not the social type then why fight that. Wait for people to come to you. If you want to become more social then practice some conversational skills.


That's all part of the debate we are bringing up. I don't quite want to be a non-drinker but I don't want to get completely off my face either and nor do I want to have to keep telling people to shut up when they try to interfere with my attempts to space my drinks. Most importantly I don't want what I drink to negatively effect my sexual performance if I do end up going home with a nice lady.

... but i'd still like to go to the pub and have a some kind of buzz and have a laugh with people. That and fresh fruit and vegies and a variety of nuts and berries instead of the pub meal and wedges with sour cream and sweet chilli sauce ;)

Here I am laying out a vision for something that is a part synthenol pub / part juice bar / part raw food restaurant.

JEESUS!


Did I fail to detect sarcasm? ;)


NPY Y1R agonist might work.


What do you mean by that?

Edited by caston, 11 October 2007 - 01:53 PM.


#9 zoolander

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 08:52 AM

That's all part of the debate we are bringing up. I don't quite want to be a non-drinker but I don't want to get completely off my face either and nor do I want to have to keep telling people to shut up when they try to interfere with my attempts to space my drinks.


Once again this sounds like you just need to assert a little bit of responsibility into the equation. Talking about introducing a hypothetical alcohol or a nootropic to help you deal with the situation is overkill IMO.

The above is a common situation. All you do is pace yourself. Drink 1 drink per hour for the first 2 hours and then slow down dramatically. Of course this will vary from person to person. Your making it sound like you can't control your drinking caston. Is this the case?

.. but i'd still like to go to the pub and have a some kind of buzz and have a laugh with people. That and fresh fruit and vegies and a variety of nuts and berries instead of the pub meal and wedges with sour cream and sweet chilli sauce


Make your way through a very hot curry and your lips will feel like you've dipped them in cocaine (i.e numb) and your head will feel like you have just had an orgasm. Have you ever felt this feeling? Try it sometime. The curry needs to be fairly hot though. The bonus here is that a hot curry is generally good for you providing that your stomach can handle it.

#10 caston

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 09:49 AM

Once again this sounds like you just need to assert a little bit of responsibility into the equation. Talking about introducing a hypothetical alcohol or a nootropic to help you deal with the situation is overkill IMO.

The above is a common situation. All you do is pace yourself. Drink 1 drink per hour for the first 2 hours and then slow down dramatically. Of course this will vary from person to person. Your making it sound like you can't control your drinking caston. Is this the case?.


Hang on is my personal issue with alcohol or the worlds issue with alcohol or a world full of people and many of them have an issue with alcohol?

Is everyone here just fine with alcohol and the way things are now? If so I'll shut up.

Make your way through a very hot curry and your lips will feel like you've dipped them in cocaine (i.e numb) and your head will feel like you have just had an orgasm. Have you ever felt this feeling? Try it sometime. The curry needs to be fairly hot though. The bonus here is that a hot curry is generally good for you providing that your stomach can handle it.


No maybe I should.

Edited by caston, 11 October 2007 - 10:35 AM.


#11 zoolander

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 10:44 AM

No doubt many people have problems with alcohol. Alcohol addiction is an addiction for life

#12 caston

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 11:03 AM

No doubt many people have problems with alcohol. Alcohol addiction is an addiction for life


Now with "synthenol" are we actually *replacing* alcohol or just creating yet another drug?

People can choose either or... which would they choose? How would liquor companies change their production processes and how long would it take them to do it?

#13 spacey

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 01:16 PM

Benzos, they bind to GABA receptors at a much higher affinity than alcohol + they're safer.

#14 caston

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 01:28 PM

Benzos, they bind to GABA receptors at a much higher affinity than alcohol , they're safer.


Hmm.. http://en.wikipedia..../Benzodiazepine

I'm sort of more looking for something described in Startrek / the how stuff works article but if something is really bad then we say ok we'll create something that isn't quite as bad... is it really going to solve anything?

Scientists have already created drugs that act like alcohol on the brain. Alcoholics who are trying to quit can take a class of drugs called benzodiazepines. These drugs are also prescribed for anxiety, panic disorders, insomnia, muscle spasms and some forms of epilepsy (the commonly-prescribed drugs Xanax, Valium and Klonopin are all benzodiazepines). Like alcohol, these drugs are full GABA receptor agonists, meaning that they enhance the effects of the brain chemical GABA. But taking benzodiazepines can cause significant side effects, including dizziness, weakness and upset stomachs, and people who use these drugs can become dependent on them.

David Nutt from the University of Bristol proposes making an alcohol alternative that contains a GABA-A partial agonist. It would bind to a GABA-A receptor, but only partially activate it, triggering a weaker response. Because a partial agonist takes the place of a true agonist, it blocks the agonist from latching on to the receptor and causing the full effect.
In theory, an alcohol alternative could contain a chemical agent that would bind only to the receptors that affect the positive effects of drinking (relaxation, pleasure), but not to the receptors that affect the negative effects (nausea, memory loss).


Well if it aint so bad for you then why not use it more often? ;)



By the same token imagine the office party with no alcohol, the office party with alcohol and the office party with synthehol...

http://www.news.com....5012424,00.html

It might not be a question of morality, ethics, personal discipline or even human enlightenment... when it comes down to it the potential market for synthenhol is probably much bigger than the market for artifical sweeteners... i'll drink to that

Edited by caston, 11 October 2007 - 01:57 PM.


#15 theta

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:00 PM

NPY Y1R agonist might work.


What do you mean by that?


A NPY Y1R agonist might produce the positive effects of ethanol.

As for as to the debate if such products are a good idea. Social anxiety is largely maladaptive in the modern world.

Synthenol needs more than anxiety reduction it needs a strong
pro-social effect. MDMA via its 5HTA1 agonist action is thought to flood the brain with oxytocin producing its pro-social effect. Though
best to my knowledge the medication buspirone is a short acting
5HTA1 agonist and does not have that major pro-social effect or does
it?

#16 rabagley

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:21 PM

For me, buspirone simply damps down excitement, including anxiety. Since I'm not all that anxiety-prone, I don't think I'll be taking any more of it.

As for alcohol, I find that 1.0 to 1.5 glasses of good wine or beer with dinner (sometimes I'll finish my wife's drink) puts me into a very pleasant and relaxed mood, and according to a growing body of research, is probably beneficial instead of harmful to my body.

Why would I want to substitute that moderate intake of beneficial alcohol for something else of unknown effect, lacking the pleasant taste of good wine or good beer? Got to say that I'm not particularly interested in mixed drinks outside of the occasional margarita, so something that has to be in a mixed drink isn't going to be that exciting for me.

As for the 12-step rhetoric, some people can't get near alcohol without going way over the top. Others can. I used to be an alcohol abuser. I did go to AA, but the helplessness crap sounded phony from the start. So I dropped that and decided to moderate my alcohol consumption. Since then, I only drink in moderation. What a crazy idea! My wife and I buy a six pack of craft-brewed beer and a couple of bottles of good wine each week. We rarely go out to bars or parties, but when we do: I consume at most three or four drinks and after every alcoholic drink at a bar or party, I have one glass of water and one glass of juice that I drink at the same rate. This 1) keeps my hands full 2) keeps a nice buzz going 3) I'm usually safe to drive 2 hours after my last drink and 4) I have no hangover the next day.

Basically, figure out some rules for your body and don't worry too much that someone else thinks you should be drinking more. They're wrong, no questions asked. Also, if the people you drink with are all about getting drunk, find better people to drink with. You're likely to find more interesting social companionship where the group vibe isn't all about pounding down the next shot of Jaegermeister or can of Shlitz.

#17 Live Forever

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 09:28 PM

Just order a virgin drink or a non alcoholic beer if you want to drink but not have alcohol.

#18 niner

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 01:18 AM

Just order a virgin drink or a non alcoholic beer if you want to drink but not have alcohol.

I think Caston was talking about getting high without alcohol, not just drinking something. It's a great idea, but it'd never fly, given the way that alcohol is embedded in our various cultures. You could always just take ecstasy. Then you'd be happy to drink water, and you'd have no problem with socializing. (WAY better than EtOH, IMHO) (except for the going to jail thing...)

#19 caston

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 01:28 PM

MDMA can be abused as well but would people who seldom drink alcohol be tempted to abuse synthenol?

The more I think about it I don't think anything *good* has come from me drinking alcohol.

#20 Live Forever

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 06:36 PM

I think Caston was talking about getting high without alcohol, not just drinking something.  It's a great idea, but it'd never fly, given the way that alcohol is embedded in our various cultures.  You could always just take ecstasy.  Then you'd be happy to drink water, and you'd have no problem with socializing.  (WAY better than EtOH, IMHO)  (except for the going to jail thing...)

Well the point of synthehol (at least on Star Trek) is to taste like alcohol without giving the effects (drunkenness) of alcohol. I was assuming that was the type of synthehol he was talking about.

In any event, I am sure if it was possible to create and there was a market for it, it would already have been done.

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#21 spacey

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 07:08 PM

the how stuff works article but if something is really bad then we say ok we'll create something that isn't quite as bad... is it really going to solve anything?


Of course it is, benzos have a very broad medical and reacreational use but a better safety profile than alcohol.




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