12 replies to this topic

[manofsan]

The continued growth of facial bones makes us look more aged as we grow older:

http://www.futurepun...ves/004788.html


So what's the evolutionary justification for this continued facial bone growth? Does it help us in some way?
Or is it simply another example of our genome not caring what happens to us after our child-rearing years?

[Shannon Vyff]

The new plastic surgery craze, 'bone-shaping' !

[rodentman]

Yes. Bone growth and especially muscle sagging are huge contributors to looking old.

[caston]

So what's the evolutionary justification for this continued facial bone growth? Does it help us in some way?
Or is it simply another example of our genome not caring what happens to us after our child-rearing years?

I seem to think everything would keep growing if we turned off the switches that stop it. Consider if we artifcally stopped facial bone growth, do you think there could be far worse side effects?

[manofsan]

Well, you all tell me -- what would the consequences be if our facial bone growth stopped? How would we suffer?

Or is this perhaps a built-in mechanism that helps natural selection, by allowing the younger/fitter specimens to quickly identify the old fogies and thus not bother mating with them?

[caston]

Well, you all tell me -- what would the consequences be if our facial bone growth stopped? How would we suffer?

It may be more about the bone marrow than about the bone itself but cells want to keep dividing. To stop cells from dividing can have many other consequences as well.
What we may need to do is peroidly (and very carefully) remove parts of the bone so that the cells focus on rebuilding rather than further growth.

I have read that our ears and noses and fingers continue to grow as well.

Or is this perhaps a built-in mechanism that helps natural selection, by allowing the younger/fitter specimens to quickly identify the old fogies and thus not bother mating with them?

Assuming youth is the only factor women consider when choosing a male partner. I've seen females throw themselves at older males while younger and far more verile men are ignored.

[niner]

OK, I'll speculate.. Consequences if facial bone growth stopped? Probably nothing. I doubt we would suffer at all. Useful mechanism for natural selection? Probably not, at least not any more than any other outward sign of aging. It just sounds like something that there was no selection pressure to prevent. That is as complicated as you need to get to explain it. Occam's Razor. I think there is less here than meets the eye. What I wonder is if we maintained a youthful overall state, hormonal and otherwise, would it still happen? Would really old guys still have giant ears even if they otherwise looked and felt like teenagers?

[caston]

OK, I'll speculate.. Consequences if facial bone growth stopped?  Probably nothing.  I doubt we would suffer at all.  Useful mechanism for natural selection?  Probably not, at least not any more than any other outward sign of aging. 

Facial bone growth may have been slowed significantly in natural selection but I would say it was males chosing females with slower facial bone growth rather than the other way around. Just compare humans with another long lived species. The elephant.

Now check out this study:

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17433895

Edited by caston, 16 November 2007 - 12:34 PM.

[caston]

I just found the following which looks like interesting reading:

http://orthodontics....growth/text.htm

Edited by caston, 18 November 2007 - 05:27 AM.

[caston]

The continued growth of facial bones makes us look more aged as we grow older:

http://www.futurepun...ves/004788.html


So what's the evolutionary justification for this continued facial bone growth? Does it help us in some way?
Or is it simply another example of our genome not caring what happens to us after our child-rearing years?

Long bone growth appears to stop due to hyaline cartilage being replaced by bone. Why not the same thing in facial bones I wonder.

http://en.wikipedia....piphyseal_plate

[luminous]

The problem is more complex than the overgrowth of certain facial bones. Seems that bone shrinkage is also a big contributor to aged appearance:

http://seniorjournal...inkingBones.htm

Sept. 25, 2005 - Blame your bones if you think you look older. Gravity may be pulling at your skin, but the shrinking of facial bones plays a surprisingly significant part in facial aging, according to a study presented today at the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) Plastic Surgery 2005 conference in Chicago.

"Many people believe that only gravity creates wrinkles; however, we have discovered the loss of volume in the face and changes in bone structure also contribute to making us look older," said David Kahn, MD, ASPS Member Surgeon and co-author of the study. "As we age, not only do we lose fat in our faces but our bones actually change in contour, often making us look older than we feel."

According to the study, facial bones remodel themselves with time, dissolving, shrinking and leaving empty space. In addition, people lose skin elasticity with age. As bones shrink, the skin cannot tighten around the skeleton causing drooping and wrinkles that age the face.

[caston]

The problem is more complex than the overgrowth of certain facial bones. Seems that bone shrinkage is also a big contributor to aged appearance:

http://seniorjournal...inkingBones.htm

Sept. 25, 2005 - Blame your bones if you think you look older. Gravity may be pulling at your skin, but the shrinking of facial bones plays a surprisingly significant part in facial aging, according to a study presented today at the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) Plastic Surgery 2005 conference in Chicago.

"Many people believe that only gravity creates wrinkles; however, we have discovered the loss of volume in the face and changes in bone structure also contribute to making us look older," said David Kahn, MD, ASPS Member Surgeon and co-author of the study. "As we age, not only do we lose fat in our faces but our bones actually change in contour, often making us look older than we feel."

According to the study, facial bones remodel themselves with time, dissolving, shrinking and leaving empty space. In addition, people lose skin elasticity with age. As bones shrink, the skin cannot tighten around the skeleton causing drooping and wrinkles that age the face.

I was looking at a photo of a grand father / suspected nazi today and what your saying makes a lot of sense. It's like just avoiding UV A and taking stuff to break and prevent crosslinks isn't going to be enough. Good thing there are stem cell therapies for regrowing bone on the bleeding edge of technology right now and to be frank I am now quite proud to be taking D3 and glad I joined a gym.

I've also found a good ebook on Hatha Yoga.

Edited by caston, 10 February 2008 - 01:57 PM.

[solbanger]

The problem is more complex than the overgrowth of certain facial bones. Seems that bone shrinkage is also a big contributor to aged appearance:

http://seniorjournal...inkingBones.htm

Sept. 25, 2005 - Blame your bones if you think you look older. Gravity may be pulling at your skin, but the shrinking of facial bones plays a surprisingly significant part in facial aging, according to a study presented today at the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) Plastic Surgery 2005 conference in Chicago.

"Many people believe that only gravity creates wrinkles; however, we have discovered the loss of volume in the face and changes in bone structure also contribute to making us look older," said David Kahn, MD, ASPS Member Surgeon and co-author of the study. "As we age, not only do we lose fat in our faces but our bones actually change in contour, often making us look older than we feel."

According to the study, facial bones remodel themselves with time, dissolving, shrinking and leaving empty space. In addition, people lose skin elasticity with age. As bones shrink, the skin cannot tighten around the skeleton causing drooping and wrinkles that age the face.

This and brain degeneration are highly annoying problems. Repairing warped skeletal bone, esp. the skull seems like it will be one of the most expensive and mechanically complex feats to the whole rejuvenation therapy approach. I mean you would have to plan on shaving the facial bones to a more youthful appearance and stuffing shrunken bones with plaster. But that would mean you would need an accurate computer composite of what your old head looked like as well as pinpoint the bones that have gone out of control or have decayed beyond belief. On top of that since we're dealing with asthetics the success of the operation(s) lie in the artistry of the surgeon. The only other technology I can think of that could handle this quickly would be the ultra-fantastic fantasy of quantum controlled surgery, which would be actually tuning the reality of our bodies to what we want (neat huh?). What a complicated error-prone multi-million dollar nuisance.