40 replies to this topic

[Alpha-Frequency]

What about Pot Cookies? This way you can avoid the smoke destroying your lungs.

[stargazer]

Cannabis severely increases my depersonalization, not during the high either but after. I used to be a major cannabis proponent but not anymore. Havn't smoked any for over a year and I probably never will again.

The problem with drug research is that alot of the side-effects aren't even recognized by the medical community. Things like HPPD, deper/derealization do exist and do affect many who uses psychadelics. They're not harmless, quite the contrary, many of them can have far worser side-effects than alcohol and amphetamines (as an example).

[mentatpsi]

What about Pot Cookies? This way you can avoid the smoke destroying your lungs.

If i'm not mistaken... there was recent research that showed pot as capable of destroying or preventing lung cancer. The damage as far as smoking has more to do with the bronchial tubes, or something along those lines.

In another note, I agree with stargazer.

Edited by mysticpsi, 29 May 2008 - 10:03 AM.

[jokerthief]

I use to smoke cannabis and I can say that there is no way it is a cognitive enhancer -- at least for me. I am significantly sharper now that I don't smoke. One thing that cannabis did to me that was especially harmful was make me complacent and lazy. It really killed any ambition that I had. Even if it did make me "smarter", the complacency that came with it would counteract any gain.

I will say, though, that I have known people to whom this doesn't apply. Cannabis didn't seem to affect them at all. But for the vast majority of people I've known, it definitely had a negative affect.

[mentatpsi]

Perhaps it would be wise to provide some studies on the matter. My own personal opinion is that it is merely a form of entertainment for those who get bored easily (though coffee is preferable in this instance), can be used as an anti-depressant, and has shown benefits with cancer. However, when it comes to cognitive enhancement it is valued on the negative. Either or here is some research articles:

These results confirm that long-term heavy cannabis users show impairments in memory and attention that endure beyond the period of intoxication and worsen with increasing years of regular cannabis use.
Cognitive Functioning of Long-term Heavy Cannabis Users Seeking Treatment

Heavy marijuana use (defined by use seven or more times weekly) was associated with deficits in mathematical skills and verbal expression in the Iowa Tests of Educational Development and selective impairments in memory retrieval processes in Buschke's Test. The retrieval impairments were restricted to words that were easy to visualize. Impairments depended on the frequency of chronic marijuana use, i.e., light and intermediate marijuana use (defined by use one to four and five to six times weekly, respectively) were not associated with deficits. Intermediate use was associated with superior performance in one condition ("fuzzy" concepts) of a Concept Formation test.
Effects of chronic marijuana use on human cognition

Book on Cannabis and Cognitive Functioning

[Agarikon]

Marijuana can be considered a nootropic because by increasing alpha waves, it enhances creativy. One of the reason I like weed is because of the dreamy thoughts I get from it. It's not your typical nootropic supplement. My short term memory and motivation are really bad when I am stoned. I also experience minor brain fog the following day at school. So personaly, I wouldn't consider pot a nootropic, the other effects are counterproductive. On another side, psychedelics with their mind manifesting effects are definitely nootropics.

Similar to my experience. I consider marijuana to be a nootropic booster for specific kinds of tasks like idea creation and writing music.

[cmorera]

Smoking marijuana does not cause lung cancer; marijuana smoke kills off lung cells, preventing them from becoming cancerous. Though chronic bronchitis is one of the symptoms of this, it is not life threatening and occurs after decades of use. Doctors prescribe medical marijuana for asthma and do not limit their prescriptions to edible forms of the leaf. How do I know this? One of my friends obtained his medicinal marijuana permit for asthma.

Emphysema. Also, most of the doctors in California who prescribe MMJ will do so for any reason, including restless legs, or other 'joke' ailments, provided you pay their 'consultation fee' for a few hundred dollars. Having your friend receive a prescription for asthma isn't convincing of effectiveness in treatment.

You will perform worse on cognitive tests while high. But it does not affect you while you are sober and does not cause any brain damage or cognitive defficiencies whatsoever when the user is not high. On the other hand, Alcohol and every single other addictive recreational drug bar cigarettes can cause permanent brain damage and continue to affect cognitive performance even when sober.

The problem is, Marijuana/THC lingers in fat cells in your body for a significant time, so even if you didn't smoke that day or week, depending on your consumption you will quite likely have levels in your body. This is the same reason drug tests can show positives several weeks after consumption. So, your response to whether the user is high or not, I dont think is accurate. You would have to compare several weeks/months after ingestion.

If you read those articles carefully, you will see that the synthetic form of THC the researcherss obtained the neurogenesis effects was a 1000x or more potent than regular weed obtained from a medicinal clinic or on the street. Logically, this would imply that even high doses of marijuana are not at all harmful to the brain (which has been medically established) and that the beneficial effects of marijuana are dosage proportional.

Again, the only bad effects of taking marijuana are from the chronic bronchitis users often experience after decades of use. You do not have to consume marijuana this way as medical dispensaries often sell edible forms of marijuana as cookies, brownies, and soft drinks. and it is very easy to make your own edibles from the dried marijuana that is smoked. You can't ignore the facts that doctors prescribe marijuana without a dosage limit and that there has been no case of someone ever dying from marijuana poisoning ever.

I think this is strongly wishful thinking, as effects are not certain, in fact scientists only recently discovered cannabinoid receptors in the brain. THC and cannabinoids simulate your brains natural chemical 'amandimde' or something like that, but its an endogenous cannabinoid. If you notice some friends or family who have been smoking for a long time, you can see effects also on personality disorders, ext... How often do you see a life long stoner, and wish or aspire to be like that person. I'd say not too often.

Ask any doctor or credible medical researcher if marijuana causes any damage to the brain or is the cause of any disease other than chronic bronchitis and they will confirm what I have presented here.

again, its too soon to say really long term effects on the brain, chemically ext ... you could look at long term stoners, people who have used since the 70's to get an idea of human experimentation however. Anyone know someone?

[dumbdumb]

I'm sure no-one will be at all interested in this post of mine, devoid as it is of any facts and figures taken from research, but, for what little it's worth...

Is the synthetic form of THC used in the tests proving neurogenesis available in any way to the public?

If not, then I would think that the numerous and frequent comparisons (made primarily by those arguing against you) between those particular tests and other tests as well as anecdotal evidence that are based upon "recreational grade" cannabis would be almost useless. What's more, there are great differences in the particular effects of various "breeds" of cannabis; some have depressive effects, and others have stimulating effects, and in both of these realms will arise complex and subtle effects unique not only due to the differences between one strain of the plant and another, but also due to the individual characteristics of each user's brain and neurochemistry.
I'm inclined to believe that cannabis - or THC - has some essential relation to brain health, and it just remains for scientests to discover the secrets of its most effective application. I wouldn't want to be "high all the time," but there are certainly some aspects of brain function that are improved by use of cannabis. If a synthetic form of THC could boost those particular areas without causing cannabis' notorious drawbacks in terms of motor function and reaction time, then that would be an unarguably positive development, wouldn't it?
I've never had an issue with "lethargy" from cannabis, but when I've smoked it, I've smoked it as an aid towards productivity in creative undertakings; I go into the ordeal with an active, excited mindset, not to "space out."

Edited by dumbdumb, 02 June 2008 - 02:59 AM.

[cmorera]

just caught this on Yahoo! news headline

Reuters
Heavy marijuana use shrinks brain parts: study



by Will DunhamMon Jun 2, 4:18 PM ET

Long-term heavy use of marijuana may cause two important brain structures to shrink, Australian researchers said on Monday.

Brain scans showed the hippocampus and amygdala were smaller in men who were heavy marijuana users compared to nonusers, the researchers said. The men had smoked at least five marijuana cigarettes daily for on average 20 years.

The hippocampus regulates memory and emotion, while the amygdala plays a critical role in fear and aggression.

The study, published in the American Medical Association's journal Archives of General Psychiatry, also found the heavy cannabis users earned lower scores than the nonusers in a verbal learning task -- trying to recall a list of 15 words.

The marijuana users were more likely to exhibit mild signs of psychotic disorders, but not enough to be formally diagnosed with any such disorder, the researchers said.

"These findings challenge the widespread perception of cannabis as having limited or no harmful effects on (the) brain and behavior," said Murat Yucel of ORYGEN Research Centre and the University of Melbourne, who led the study.

"Like with most things, some people will experience greater problems associated with cannabis use than others," Yucel said in an e-mail. "Our findings suggest that everyone is vulnerable to potential changes in the brain, some memory problems and psychiatric symptoms if they use heavily enough and for long enough."

Among the 15 heavy marijuana users in the study, the hippocampus volume was 12 percent less and the amygdala volume was 7 percent less than in 16 men who were not marijuana users, the researchers said.

The researchers acknowledged that the study did not prove it was the marijuana and not some other factor that triggered these brain differences. But Yucel said the findings certainly suggested marijuana was the cause.

"STONED" FOR 20 YEARS

While about half of the marijuana users reported experiencing some form of paranoia and social withdrawal, only one of the nonusers reported such symptoms, Yucel said.

The heavy marijuana users, average age 40, said they had used other illicit drugs less than 10 times, the researchers said.

A U.S. group supporting legal sales and regulation of marijuana took issue with the findings, particularly because they were based on men who were such heavy, long-term users.

"These were people who were essentially stoned all day every day for 20 years," Marijuana Policy Project spokesman Bruce Mirken said by e-mail. "This study says nothing about moderate or occasional users, who are the vast majority -- and the (study) even acknowledges this."

"The documented damage caused by comparably heavy use of alcohol or tobacco is just off-the-charts more serious, and you don't need high-tech scans to find it," Mirken added.

Yucel said the researchers have begun new research on the effects of both short-term and long-term and moderate and heavy use of marijuana.

(Editing by Maggie Fox)

[chowder]

Vasopressin inhibition, decreased sperm motility, and lethargy are the biggest problems I have with it.

It has many effects, serotonergic and dopa-
minergic properties, effects on NMDA and en-
dogenous opioid systems, as well as being anti-inflammatory.
(avoiding brain inflammaton is important!)

To me it seems like it has somewhat of a modulating effect on melatonin and gaba - if one were to smoke I'd recommend using a vaporizer to avoid the oxidative stress from the smoke it as well as taking breaks / cycling off often.

The decreased sperm motility is a myth.

[bobman]

[/quote]
A psychiatrist... HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA... they are the least respected of the medical community so I would recommend that you do not trust her advice on a field which she doesn't specialize in and in all probability she is highly ignorant of. Most medical studies have proven that marijuana's negative effects are for the most part temporary while it has numerous benefits that far outweigh the negative - this is the reason many state governments have legalized it without a dosage limit for medicinal purposes. The evidence is so overwhelming that even the federal government's new commercials do not even make baseless claims of brain damage but rather criticize the laid-back culture of potheads - now that their previous claims of negative health consequences have been disproved by their own researchers, they have resorted to primal tribal behavior to attack pot because it makes you different. Regarding those articles you quoted: did you not read the numerous articles I posted (one by New Scientist) that reveals that marijuana's beneficial effects on depression are a result of its ability to induce neurogenesis?
[/quote]

Are you honestly doing this? First off to claim that smoking marijuana is an absolute good is rediculous. You're absolutely causing damage to the lungs. There is no "free lunch" with noxious compounds and living tissue. Claiming that indiscriminantly killing lung cells is somehow an overall chemopreventative measure is, sorry to be harsh, retarded. As for purported neurogenesis, I'd go back to hitting those books. There is not enough research out there to claim that for the average, healthy person, smoking marijuana increases intelligence. For that matter there is a fair bit of evidence indicating that cannabais inflicts morphological changes in CA1 neurons reminiscent of ischemia. There is certainly evidence that cannabais increases hippocampal neurogenesis, but in the same breath one must note dubious connection between thc induced neurogenesis and increased intelligence. As another poster mentioned, neurogenesis doesn't necessarily imply a smarter brain. Those new cells may not be getting incorporated correctly. There is evidence that mature hippocampal neurites are damaged by thc, so it wouldn't be alogether surprising. Furthermore logic would dictate that high doses of thc would significantly downregulate CB1 and CB2 receptors, and to my knowledge research does show dose dependent CB1 downregulation. Why don't you explain to the rest of the imminst class why neuronal receptor loss is a good thing.

And no offense, but you aren't even a medical studet. On the totem pole of respectability you don't even get the bottom notch. I wouldn't throw out ad hominem oh lowly undergrad. Accomplished people never lead an argument with " I know this because of my badge of authority," especially when that badge reads "biology student".

Edited by bobmann, 08 December 2009 - 03:31 AM.