63 replies to this topic

[zawy]

If you take 1 g of niacin, most everyone will get the flush. 500 mg causes it in at least 50% of the people. If you take 1 g twice a day, the flush will not occur after the first day. If you skip a day, it will come back on the next dose but not as bad as initially. Skip 2 to 5 days and it's like you never took the niacin. 3 to 4 g/day is the best and safest form of lowering LDL and raising HDL. This has been known since the 1950's. The primary researcher is Hoffer (and abrahamson?) who I believe claims it was one of the first double-blind placebo controlled trials (looking into schizo prevention). Their interest was in preventing schizophrenia. Linus Pauling got interested in vitamin C after Stone told him about it at a speech and at about the same time he read Hoffer's research. His shock at seeing you could safely give people 5 g/day of niacin got him more interested in vit C and orthomolecular medicine. He and Hoffer collaborated on vit C and cancer, reporting that 10 g/day of vitamin C increased lifespan of terminal cancer patients by a factor of 4 with an improvement in quality of life. "Survival" was not necessarily imporoved, just "time-to-death". Later research indicated there's no benefit if the patient has been subjected to chemo. This research is detailed in Pauling and Hoffer's book "Vitamin C and Cancer" which republishes the peer-reviewed work. Negative side effects are often reported, but all liver problems appear to be from in time-release forms. In response to my email question, Hoffer said he has never seen toxicity from plain niacin after prescribing multi-gram doses to thousands of patients since the 1950's. He has no explanation for why there are some reports of "niacin toxicity" unless it's time-release.

[lucid]

Hoffer said he has never seen toxicity from plain niacin after prescribing multi-gram doses to thousands of patients since the 1950's. He has no explanation for why there are some reports of "niacin toxicity" unless it's time-release.

A couple people on the forum here have gotten hit up with Niacin Mucopathy, its not a big deal and can be fixed by stopping supplementation, but it is real.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

Three patients with niacin-induced visual symptoms had cystoid maculopathy without leakage on fluorescein angiography, and a fourth patient with no fundus abnormality experienced cessation of visual symptoms upon discontinuation of niacin. All four patients had been taking high doses of niacin (3.0-4.5 g daily) before the onset of symptoms. An additional 15 asymptomatic patients who were receiving high doses of oral niacin (1.0-6.0 g daily) for the treatment of hypercholesterolemia were evaluated for evidence of subclinical macular disease. None of these patients had cystic or other significant macular changes.Niacin causes a reversible toxic cystoid maculopathy that occurs in approximately 0.67% of patients taking high doses of the drug. The authors conclude that among patients taking high doses of oral niacin only those who experience visual symptoms need to be ophthalmologically evaluated.

I take 500mg/day, is anyone familiar with what sort of cholesterol results to expect at a given dose? Also since you seem to be doing some heavy niacin supplementation zawy, do you notice your cholesterol levels continue to improve? Or do they plateau out at some level? (and possibly return to a worse level if supplementation is stopped)

[hamishm00]

the first time I took Niacin as a stand alone, I popped 300mg...boy that was harsh.

I went completely red all over, legs, chest, face - I had to jump in the shower (cold) which didn't help much (obviously).

It takes 200mg before I get any sort of serious flushing. 100mg has no real noticeable flush effects.

[hamishm00]

I take 500mg/day, is anyone familiar with what sort of cholesterol results to expect at a given dose? Also since you seem to be doing some heavy niacin supplementation zawy, do you notice your cholesterol levels continue to improve? Or do they plateau out at some level? (and possibly return to a worse level if supplementation is stopped)

How long is a peice of string? With a fairly relaxed diet, quite high alcohol intake (30-ish units a week), and very solid niacin intake my cholesterol level is at 2.9. I do take a significant amount of Omega 3, and of course other things, but I put stock in my low cholesterol levels being attributable partly (at least) to niacin.

[ruby]

I've only just joined the thread, so apologies for the time delay.

The niacin flush I exerienced was quite a horrible sensation. I can't imagine anyone deliberately wishing for it. My face was so red that I looked as though I had a bad alcohol problem! (I don't drink.) My face was so hot, my body slightly less so (not me at all), and not a sweaty heat. It feels as though you have just been scalded by steam. The first time this happened I was attending a community meeting with members of parliament and the city council - so it really put me off being effective. I'm really cautious about the quantity I consume now.

[lynx]

Not to be mean or anything, but this is all rubbish.

I'm waiting to catch my train so i started reading an article about niacin : Full Article

>>

If you take niacin and DON'T have a flush, it could be that your capillaries are too far gone to be helped, or more likely, you don't have a lot of toxins ready to be removed just then.

So, you should seek the niacin flush. It does a great deal of good for your body -- increasing blood flow, taking nutrients to areas that are starved, and taking AWAY some of those toxins that cause illness, tiredness and disease.


Niacin is a vitamin that has a "getting used to" level. In other words, the first time you take niacin you may have the flush. If you keep taking the same amount each day, you will have the flush, maybe, on the second or third day, but by the fourth day you won't have any flush.

Then is when you should deliberately increase your niacin dose which leads to this article

""
Once you have had the niacin flush with a particular quantity of niacin, usually the next day that same dosage of niacin won't create the same effect, and usually after a few more days you will have none of this sensation -- until you increase the dosage of niacin. When you take niacin to a new, higher level (from 100 mg, for instance, to 200 mg) you can experience the reddening again.
""

[lynx]

There exists a subgroup of the population, certain schizophrenics, who get no niacin flush at any dose.

[aikikai]

Wasn't there a thread here somewhere on imminst that niacin could possibly create Parkinsons Disease (I don't remeber correctly) on a long term use? Please correct me.

[aikikai]

I found it...
http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=20190

[hamishm00]

Isn't non-flushing also symptomatic of a some kind of abdominal/lower intestinal malignant carcinoma? I read that somewhere

Edited by hamishm00, 10 February 2009 - 10:10 AM.

[neogenic]

It is funny to read this thread through now when most felt that niacin/niacinamide was the anti-resveratrol and now after reviewing the data, it appears just the opposite with the SIRT genes. The data was misinterpreted.

[neogenic]

It is funny to read this thread through now when most felt that niacin/niacinamide was the anti-resveratrol and now after reviewing the data, it appears just the opposite with the SIRT genes. The data was misinterpreted.

[Recortes]

I take Source Naturals, Niacin 250. The first time I took it the flush was quite impressive, I had my neck, hands, face all red, and felling really hot. However, after 3/4 days of use this reation disappeared and I don't feel anything anymore.  

[neogenic]

Would dosing 100mg, once an hour be better or worse than dosing 500 mg. after five hours? Meaning is there a benefit of dosing/frequency or is it just net niacin over time. If it is the latter than dosing more frequently at lower doses would remove the parastethia concerns.

[Advanc3d]

Does the tolerance to not feeling the flush anymore anythng to do with the histamine levels and receptors?
i mean if its like taking 5-htp which is a precursor to serotonin, i've noticed no effect from it after taking it daily for over a week.. which is because of the down regulation of receptors and such

[nameless]

Would dosing 100mg, once an hour be better or worse than dosing 500 mg. after five hours? Meaning is there a benefit of dosing/frequency or is it just net niacin over time. If it is the latter than dosing more frequently at lower doses would remove the parastethia concerns.

I am pretty sure dosing niacin once per hour would kill your liver. That is one of the issues with sustained-released niacin, but it seems intermediate-release, like Niaspan, isn't so bad. Immediate release is probably best, especially for liver concerns, assuming you can tolerate the flush. I wouldn't suggest dosing more than twice a day.

[pycnogenol]

My doctor now says that taking niacin in low amounts in the range of 250 mg to 500 mg total per day can spike glucose levels.

Is she right about niacin spiking glucose in such low amounts?!?

Edited by pycnogenol, 11 February 2009 - 05:37 PM.

[meursault]

I would also like to know the answer to pycnogenol's question. Is the flushing/vasodilation effect at 100mg-200mg healthy or worth it? I do it maybe one or twice a week as a cheap general maintenance measure (family history of high cholesterol levels).

[mikeinnaples]

I would also like to know the answer to pycnogenol's question. Is the flushing/vasodilation effect at 100mg-200mg healthy or worth it? I do it maybe one or twice a week as a cheap general maintenance measure (family history of high cholesterol levels).

I don't know about a -spike-, but 1 gram a day (as nicotinic acid) caused my fasting glucose levels to be slightly above 100. I am currently taking 2 grams of niacin (as nicotinic acid and single dosage) and am getting blood work done Monday *however* I am taking 500mg a day of Metformin SR as well now, per my physician to counter the niacin's effect on glucose. I am interested in seeing how this plays out in my latest labs.

[jazzcat]

My doctor now says that taking niacin in low amounts in the range of 250 mg to 500 mg total per day can spike glucose levels.

Is she right about niacin spiking glucose in such low amounts?!?

it's supposed to be dose dependent. If it's a problem that low a dose it might indicate you're pre-diabetic.

http://lpi.oregonsta...itamins/niacin/

[e Volution]

I have a question, I just tried Niacian for the first time @ 500mg and have experienced a HUGE flush! Quite scary really, certainly unpleasant but nevertheless interesting... One thing though I noticed is my entire body looks like I have an incredibly bad sunburn, however there are small patches here and there completely non-flushed. Two spots in particular down from my armpits on both sides, it appears like the the area is changing in size/shape a little over time but for the most part completely white compared to my entire bright red abdomen. Is this normal, and what is happening? Why aren't these capillaries expanded?

[DairyProducts]

I have a question, I just tried Niacian for the first time @ 500mg and have experienced a HUGE flush! Quite scary really, certainly unpleasant but nevertheless interesting... One thing though I noticed is my entire body looks like I have an incredibly bad sunburn, however there are small patches here and there completely non-flushed. Two spots in particular down from my armpits on both sides, it appears like the the area is changing in size/shape a little over time but for the most part completely white compared to my entire bright red abdomen. Is this normal, and what is happening? Why aren't these capillaries expanded?

I tried that much niacin a couple of times and had that type of reaction. Sometimes I would have some random spots like that, sometimes not. I'm not sure what it means, but I'm not sure if it matters if you take less than 500 mg and just get a little redness instead of the volcano burn.

[mikeinnaples]

I have a question, I just tried Niacian for the first time @ 500mg and have experienced a HUGE flush! Quite scary really, certainly unpleasant but nevertheless interesting... One thing though I noticed is my entire body looks like I have an incredibly bad sunburn, however there are small patches here and there completely non-flushed. Two spots in particular down from my armpits on both sides, it appears like the the area is changing in size/shape a little over time but for the most part completely white compared to my entire bright red abdomen. Is this normal, and what is happening? Why aren't these capillaries expanded?

The flush is completely normal. Your body also adapts to it over time and the flush is reduced in intensity. I would normally suggest starting out at a low dose and increasing it over the span of a few weeks if you cant handle the flush. I can now take 2g in a single dose with no flush.

[TheFountain]

How long does the skin reddening effect last when taking niacin? I just got some 500 mg twinlab niacin and am not sure 1-if I even need it and 2-what I should expect in terms of this 'flushing' everyone speaks of.

[TheFountain]

How long does the skin reddening effect last when taking niacin? I just got some 500 mg twinlab niacin and am not sure 1-if I even need it and 2-what I should expect in terms of this 'flushing' everyone speaks of.

[TheFountain]

How long does the skin reddening effect last when taking niacin? I just got some 500 mg twinlab niacin and am not sure 1-if I even need it and 2-what I should expect in terms of this 'flushing' everyone speaks of.

[Jason30]

Sorry if i missed something, but i wonder why you all take Niacin?

My doctor advised me niacin to release histamin (because of my high histamin). But i don't know any other reason why you should take Niacin?

[Darryl]

Nicotinic acid increases HDL cholesterol levels more than any other drug

 

NA reduces LDL cholesterol, triglycerides, and lipoprotein(a) levels, while reducing the atherogenicity of LDL by changing the distribution of small LDL to large LDL subclass, and the susceptibility of LDL to oxidation.

 

Through activating GPR109A (responsible for the flushing effect) on immune cells, NA has anti-inflammatory effects independent of its lipid-modifying effect, reducing endothelial ROS production, subsequent LDL oxidation and inflammatory cytokine production (vascular cell adhesion molecule-1, monocyte chemotactic protein-1,  IL-6, TNF-α, and C-reactive protein), and monocyte adhesion to endothelium.

 

NA reduces blood viscosity, and may limit ischemia–reperfusion injury.

 

NA reduces carotid intimal media thickness and plaque area, and improves endothelial function.

 

NA reduces progression of atherosclerosis, increases likelihood of its reversal, and reduces clinical events (by 27%) and mortality from coronary heart disease.

 

In adipocytes, NA suppresses fractalkine, RANTES, and MCP-1 and upregulates adiponectin.

 

NA may reduce invasiveness of cancer cells.

 

NA decreases immunosuppression and carcinogenesis by UVB.

 

These effects are mediated by activation of nicotinic acid receptor GPR109A on adipocytes and immune cells, and in some cases NAs role as a NAD⁺ precursor. There's been increased interest in NAD⁺ precursors given the recent Sinclair lab study where injected NMN brought Sirt1-dependent mitochondrial rejuvenation. Nicotinamide, which does not activate GPR109A, is rate-limited by NAMPT in NAD⁺ production, and is an effective sirtuin inhibitor. Another precursor, nicotinamide riboside, also lacks GPR109A activity, and in animal studies is no more effective than NA at increasing NAD⁺ levels, and ineffective in some tissues that don't express NR kinase.

 

Don't want the flush? Increase the dose slowly, take aspirin (or alternative NSAID, I take Mg salicylate), 30 mins to 1 hr before the NA, and take an EPA supplement in the context of a low n-6 PUFA/arachidonic acid diet. GPR109A is still activated, but releases of prostaglandins D2 and E2 will be lower, and the cutaneous flushing merely a pleasant reminder that you took your stack.

 

Edited by Darryl, 23 May 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Jason30]

Thanks Darryl, those are a lot of benefits.

 

I also have a lot of inflammation, if i understand you correctly NA reduces inflammation.

 

My HDL is 1.1 and LDL 1.8 mmol/l, so I guess I could use something extra like Niacin to make my HDL higher.

 

Are there any recommendations for intake of Niacin? With food, in the evening?

 

I have Solgar, Niacin (Vitamin B3), 100 mg, 100 Tablets. Is this form recommended?

 

Thanks again!

[Darryl]

To be honest, HDL raising and triglyceride lowering interventions (including niacin) have had disappointing results on CVD outcomes (they're probably both coincident markers of other risk factors like low activity level and metabolic syndrome). NA offers significant reductions in cardiovascular events, but there's little association of this reduction with increased HDL levels.

 

I'm mostly interested in NA as an NAD⁺ precursor (hopefully synergizing with exercise, mild caloric restriction, salicylate, and CD38 inhibition by flavonoids), but I have noticed possible mild anti-inflammatory and photoprotective effects.

 

The therapeutic dose in cardiology is typically 1.5 to 3 g, generally taken these days in a prescription extended release form (eg Niaspan).

 

There are a number of over-the-counter niacins.  I mentioned the most common form, niacinamide, with caveat emptors above. Sustained release ("flush-free") niacins like inositol hexanicotinate are to be avoided: they're poorly absorbed, have little lipid effects, and at high doses, are hepatotoxic in some patients. I take 1 g of crystalline / immediate release nicotinic acid, but I have no elevated CVD risks.

 

I believe the Solgar is also nicotinic acid, but is at a dosage suitable only for ramping up to therapeutic levels.