82 replies to this topic

[missminni]

In my belief, the King James Version of the Bible is the one to use.

What belief might that be? The religion called "my belief"?
Learn history. How can you believe in science and claim to
go by facts and figures and clinical studies, yet when it comes
to the bible all you need is "my belief"?
History. Fascinating subject. I recommend it.

[luv2increase]

In my belief, the King James Version of the Bible is the one to use.

What belief might that be? The religion called "my belief"?
Learn history. How can you believe in science and claim to
go by facts and figures and clinical studies, yet when it comes
to the bible all you need is "my belief"?
History. Fascinating subject. I recommend it.

Salty much? Upset at life?

The belief in which I was referring to as my own was non-denominational Christianity.

[missminni]

delete

Edited by missminni, 18 December 2007 - 03:19 AM.

[jaydfox]

BTW-The original word that was used as God or Jehovah in the bible
was Elohim.
Elohim is plural.
think about it

It's plural because it means God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son are separate entities that coexisted since the beginning. Notice, for example, Genesis 1:26; John 1:1-2, 14; 17:5. How's that for consistency?

Interesting. I know very few non-Mormon Christians who accept that Jesus Christ and God the Father are separate entities.

[luv2increase]

BTW-The original word that was used as God or Jehovah in the bible
was Elohim.
Elohim is plural.
think about it

It's plural because it means God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son are separate entities that coexisted since the beginning. Notice, for example, Genesis 1:26; John 1:1-2, 14; 17:5. How's that for consistency?

Interesting. I know very few non-Mormon Christians who accept that Jesus Christ and God the Father are separate entities.

Agreed. They are not separate entities. They are the same entity, only holding different positions similar to how a man can be a husband, father, son, grandfather etc...

Edited by luv2increase, 18 December 2007 - 12:43 AM.

[william7]

In my belief, the King James Version of the Bible is the one to use.

If you're talking about the old King James Version, that's a very difficult version to read and understand if you ask me. I'm partial to the New International Version. The committee of scholars who produced the NIV had the benefit of a greater number of manuscripts than previous translators had.

It's still best to consult as many versions of the Bible as you can when researching or discussing a particular question. If the question is important enough, we'll hit our well stocked library and the computer programs with wide range of Bible research tools and commentaries.

[william7]

Interesting. I know very few non-Mormon Christians who accept that Jesus Christ and God the Father are separate entities.

Agreed. They are not separate entities. They are the same entity, only holding different positions similar to how a man can be a husband, father, son, grandfather etc...

Clearly separate entities though. Checkout John 14:28, for instance, where Jesus says "the Father is greater than I." I think the confusion comes in where Jesus says "I and the Father are one." John 10:30. Other Scriptures also make it clear the Father and the Son are separate entities. See, for example, Daniel 7:9-14 (Ancient of Days is God the Father and the "one like a son of man" is Jesus); Revelation 3:12 (this is the resurrected Jesus Christ speaking); 5:1-14 (the one who sits on the throne is God the Father and the lamb is Jesus)

The Catholic church with its mother Mary worship likes to make it sound like she gave birth to God the Father. "Mary the mother of God."

[luv2increase]

Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are all one.

[william7]

God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

We believe in one God, the Father, eternally existing, who is a Spirit, a personal Being of supreme intelligence, knowledge, love, justice, power and authority. He, through Jesus Christ, is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. He is the Source of life and the One for whom human life exists. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Word and who has eternally existed. We believe that He is the Messiah, the Christ, the divine Son of the living God, conceived of the Holy Spirit, born in human flesh of the virgin Mary. We believe that it is by Him that God created all things, and that without Him was not anything made that was made. We believe in the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of God and of Christ. The Holy Spirit is the power of God and the Spirit of life eternal (2 Timothy 1:7; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:1-4; Colossians 1:16).

http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/FB/

[luv2increase]

God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

We believe in one God, the Father, eternally existing, who is a Spirit, a personal Being of supreme intelligence, knowledge, love, justice, power and authority. He, through Jesus Christ, is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. He is the Source of life and the One for whom human life exists. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Word and who has eternally existed. We believe that He is the Messiah, the Christ, the divine Son of the living God, conceived of the Holy Spirit, born in human flesh of the virgin Mary. We believe that it is by Him that God created all things, and that without Him was not anything made that was made. We believe in the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of God and of Christ. The Holy Spirit is the power of God and the Spirit of life eternal (2 Timothy 1:7; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:1-4; Colossians 1:16).

http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/FB/

That is the doctrine of the United Church of God, a denomination. I am going to respect it, but I do not believe it. My translation of those scriptures are different than yours.

[Luna]

If the Universe is so just good for life, howcome it is so hard to find others earth-like planets?
@@..

[william7]

That is the doctrine of the United Church of God, a denomination. I am going to respect it, but I do not believe it. My translation of those scriptures are different than yours.

Even though the Father and the Son are separate entities, you could look at it like they're one in purpose. They're working together to establish Christian communism on earth which will bring much freedom from pain, suffering and death.

[william7]

If the Universe is so just good for life, howcome it is so hard to find others earth-like planets?
@@..

Our Amazing Spaceship Earth

Scientists have spent multiple years and billions of dollars searching for life elsewhere in the universe, only to find that earth alone not only teems with life, but seems to be expressly designed for life. An amazing intelligence seems to be behind it all. What is that intelligence telling us?

http://www.gnmagazin.../gn65/earth.htm, for the rest of the article

May be God created only one spaceship earth.

[platypus]

It's still best to consult as many versions of the Bible as you can when researching or discussing a particular question. If the question is important enough, we'll hit our well stocked library and the computer programs with wide range of Bible research tools and commentaries.

To me it seems odd to claim that some modern translation of the Bible (for example the KJV) is somehow better than later ones which have benefitted from more research into translation and the manuscripts in question.

[Luna]

Elijah, but that's incorrect, I said it's hard, not impossible.
Scientists have found more than one earth like planets.

[william7]

To me it seems odd to claim that some modern translation of the Bible (for example the KJV) is somehow better than later ones which have benefited from more research into translation and the manuscripts in question.

It's just like in the sciences, we're gaining more insight and understanding and improving our performance all the time. Again, it's best to go to as many versions of the Bible and use as many biblical research tools as you can when you have a serious question. We do it all the time.

[platypus]

Also, society is in a transition IMHO right now towards atheism or Christianity without practicing. This will make things very interesting for the next couple decades.

That already happened in many parts of Europe a generation or two ago and we're doing quite well thank you very much. The religiosity of the US looks quite quaint from this side of the Atlantic..

You have a bad tone. What is "thank you very much" all about? You act as if this is a war or something? That is weird if you ask me. I wasn't saying anything bad at all genius. I was saying that the Christian population is dwindling in all parts of the world. It is fact.

Excuse me, I thought there was an undertone claiming that times were better before the current age of reason. Christian population is dwindling in the developed world maybe but I'm quite sure its advance in Africa, China and Southern America more than make up that decline.

[william7]

Scientists have found more than one earth like planets.

None teeming with life and none capable of sustaining human life without serious technological modifications.

[Luna]

Scientists have found more than one earth like planets.

None teeming with life and none capable of sustaining human life without serious technological modifications.

Incorrect.

[luv2increase]

Scientists have found more than one earth like planets.

None teeming with life and none capable of sustaining human life without serious technological modifications.

Incorrect.

Please explain how so?

[Luna]

Sorry but I didn't sort between identical stars in articles, but there are many more. there is even a second solar system inside our own galaxy, which I have already made a topic on in the physics section, it also has earth-like planets in orbit.
Few examples:

http://www.sfgate.co...MNG9CQ336T1.DTL

http://www.space.com...o_panorama.html

http://www.abc.net.a...es/s1554907.htm

http://space.newscie...t-for-life.html

http://www.space.com..._exoplanet.html

http://www.dailymail...in_page_id=1965

http://www.guardian....paceexploration

http://findarticles....20/ai_n16146317

[luv2increase]

Sorry but I didn't sort between identical stars in articles, but there are many more. there is even a second solar system inside our own galaxy, which I have already made a topic on in the physics section, it also has earth-like planets in orbit.
Few examples:

http://www.sfgate.co...MNG9CQ336T1.DTL

http://www.space.com...o_panorama.html

http://www.abc.net.a...es/s1554907.htm

http://space.newscie...t-for-life.html

http://www.space.com..._exoplanet.html

http://www.dailymail...in_page_id=1965

http://www.guardian....paceexploration

http://findarticles....20/ai_n16146317

I would say with certainty that your belief in human inhabitable planets is a bit premature. No one knows for sure yet. I don't believe you know all the varibales that go into a planets ability do harbor life.

[Luna]

And I say your belief in god and that we're so special is childish. =)

[missminni]

And I say your belief in god and that we're so special is childish. =)

I would have to wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
The law of averages alone dictates that not only is there other life like ours, but
other life far superior to ours as well. This is the Universe we are talking about.
I hate to sound flippant but to those who doubt it, do the math.

[Cyberbrain]

And I say your belief in god and that we're so special is childish. =)

I would have to wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
The law of averages alone dictates that not only is there other life like ours, but
other life far superior to ours as well. This is the Universe we are talking about.
I hate to sound flippant but to those who doubt it, do the math.

Yes, I agree as well!

And for those who actually want to do the math, use this. :

[william7]

not only is there other life like ours, but other life far superior

I like to call that other life, far superior to ours, God and His heavenly host. Revelation 5:13; 19:14

[missminni]

not only is there other life like ours, but other life far superior

I like to call that other life, far superior to ours, God and His heavenly host. Revelation 5:13; 19:14

That could be if you consider that earth might very well be a colony started by more advanced beings that we
think are gods. Eziekels wheel sounds a lot like a space ship to me.

[william7]

That could be if you consider that earth might very well be a colony started by more advanced beings that we
think are gods. Eziekels wheel sounds a lot like a space ship to me.

I think that's what Erich von Däniken, the author of Chariots of the Gods says too. See http://www.daniken.com/e/index.html. So why couldn't these advanced beings be the God of the Bible?

[missminni]

That could be if you consider that earth might very well be a colony started by more advanced beings that we
think are gods. Eziekels wheel sounds a lot like a space ship to me.

I think that's what Erich von Däniken, the author of Chariots of the Gods says too. See http://www.daniken.com/e/index.html. So why couldn't these advanced beings be the God of the Bible?

In that case,
that would make the god of the bible a space traveler from another galaxy, not the omnipotent lord and master you so
blindly worship.
He would have been an explorer who started a colony, or maybe a scientist doing an experiment. That's it. Nothing more. He wasn't
GOD or omnipotent or anything but perhaps a high ranking official from wherever he was from.
The mythology that grew out of this was a way for a less evolved culture to explain a more advanced technology they
had no reference for.
The godly attributes were created by men here trying to exploit and maintain and control power over other men.
On that same note,
The Dogon tribe of Africa claim to get their knowledge from Nommos, an amphibious being from a planet in the Sirius B galaxy.
They had maps of exactly where Sirius B was long before scientists knew it even existed. It's quite amazing. Like Christ, Nommos
was crucified and resurrected and is planning a second coming to earth in human form where he shall rule forever. Quite a popular theme
this resurrection thing. Hope burns eternal. Everyone wants to live forever.
It seems to me there were a number of
intergalactic travelers visiting earth back in the day, and they naturally had cults evolve around them.
Men in power realized the influence they could yield if they nourished these cults and so we see a
a merging of political ambition and religion. JMHO
As for the God you are so sure of as your saviour...he is a construction in your mind to make your life seem more meaningful and purposeful,
and that is not necessarily a bad thing, if that's what you need to get by.
But when you try to force YOUR god and your belief system onto others, then AFAIC it becomes a crime against humanity. Right now,
in this great age of science and discovery, we are in this most primitive of battles with two major religious belief systems controlled by political and
corporate interests using ignorant brainwashed followers as human fodder to further their pursuit for world domination.
You are feeding into it.

[william7]

In that case,
that would make the god of the bible a space traveler from another galaxy, not the omnipotent lord and master you so
blindly worship.

The space traveler as you call him might possess the knowledge for gaining immortality and desires to teach us what he knows. I worship God with open eyes, not blindly. He has the best plan for reaching immortality I've seen so far.

intergalactic travelers visiting earth back in the day, and they naturally had cults evolve around them.
Men in power realized the influence they could yield if they nourished these cults and so we see a
a merging of political ambition and religion.

Probably Satan practicing deception again.

As for the God you are so sure of as your saviour...he is a construction in your mind to make your life seem more meaningful and purposeful,
and that is not necessarily a bad thing, if that's what you need to get by.

God and the Bible have helped a lot of people out of tight spots. I'm glad you see this. I wish those arch atheists could see it this way. They're about ready to fill the psychiatric facilities with us believers until we repent of our "delusional" beliefs.

But when you try to force YOUR god and your belief system onto others, then AFAIC it becomes a crime against humanity.

Our religion doesn't force anything on anybody. We are a small group with no money and no political power. What is AFAIC?

Right now,
in this great age of science and discovery, we are in this most primitive of battles with two major religious belief systems controlled by political and
corporate interests using ignorant brainwashed followers as human fodder to further their pursuit for world domination.
You are feeding into it.

You're probably talking about Satan's Counterfeit Christianity. See http://www.tomorrows...item=1140203084. I'm not a part of those type of religions.