4 replies to this topic

[mystery]

It is very difficult to find substantial information that addresses how long a particular supplement or nootropic needs to be taken until the consumer will likely experience cognitive benefits. Some drugs/supplements will clearly offer immediate effects, while others will take days, weeks or even months. This information is critical. All we are really doing is taking supplements and waiting for benefits and weighing in any side effects. If we just notice side effects than maybe we will be inclined to discontinue use, where the desired effect may take longer than we are willing to endure the side effects if we don't know how long we have to endure them to notice effects. (does that make sense?)

How do researchers identify a suitable length for a given experiment to determine effictiveness? Could studies be invalid due to an ineffective length of time?

For example: if you studied caffeine than you could administer 200 mg and expect immediate effects. Doing the same for fish oil would seemingly likely result in no noticeable effect. On the other hand, if you administered 200 mg caffeine for a month than the effect of the caffeine might interfere with sleep ultimately resulting in incosistent effects, where supplementing with fish oil for a month might demonstrate significant cognitive benefits.

I'd like some substantiated information. Can anyone find references or provide personal experience to help? I'd like a breakdown of what you've tried, and how long for what effects (including side effects).

The reason I'm so interested is that I've acquired a whole lot of supplements, nootropics, drugs, and herbs to boost cognition. What I've done (yea I'll admit I'm a bit noobie) is take a whole load of a given supplement for a day or two expecting to get some meaningful information.

Not suprisingly, I often can't stand the side effects, and don't care to endure them for weeks or months just to wait and see what effects might manifest. During that time I could be trying something else or nothing at all (which might be better with no side effects).

Do you see my delima?

[meursault]

The reason I'm so interested is that I've acquired a whole lot of supplements, nootropics, drugs, and herbs to boost cognition. What I've done (yea I'll admit I'm a bit noobie) is take a whole load of a given supplement for a day or two expecting to get some meaningful information.

Not suprisingly, I often can't stand the side effects, and don't care to endure them for weeks or months just to wait and see what effects might manifest. During that time I could be trying something else or nothing at all (which might be better with no side effects).

Do you see my delima?

Don't take them if you can't stand the side effects. OF COURSE YOU SHOULDN'T endure them for weeks or months to see what will happen!

If you really want to see what these drugs are doing to you, you can't just take them all at once. Don't take them all at once. That will likely be more dangerous than helpful and it is impossible to understand how each drug is affecting you. Start with one thing, research the boards here or pubmed.com for a period of time to take it (which will probably be at least 1 month, in some cases 2 weeks). Finding a combination of drugs can take a very long time. You can't be impatient and just pile on the drugs. If you are going to be taking so many at once, you should probably take even more time.

If you use the forum search function, you can probably find almost all the answers to your questions.

Edited by AntonW, 19 December 2007 - 09:45 PM.

[luv2increase]

What supplements give you intolerable side-effects?

I haven't had bad side-effects with any nootropic. The closest thing I've had would be choline bitartrate making my piss smell weird, and certain herbs like bacopa and ashwagandha making me piss a lot.

You call yourself a noob and rightfully so. You need to understand the mechanisms to the best of your ability of how these supplements work. For example, when it comes to extra choline, don't take 1g of centrophenoxine, 1g of alpha-gpc, and 1g of choline bitartrate. You definitely would be a tad strange with that.

You have to understand that certain nootropics go with and need to be taken with others. For example, any racetam should be taken with a choline source, or you will not get good effects.

If you are taking prescription medications, make sure that nothing you are taking will have a bad reaction with the medication.

You can't just take nootropics. You have to take multi-vitamins and other good healthy supplements. You also have to exercise, eat right, and get good rest.

Also, note that nootropics aren't psychostimulants (except for centrophenoxine & deprenyl), so you won't feel something right away like taking amphetamines or caffeine even.

Nootropics and supplements are not going to make you a genius either; although, I have no doubt they will help make you smarter and improve your memory if you do everything right.



Some good advice for you is to read, read, and read some more. Learn all you can, ask questions, then devise a personal regimen for yourself to meet your expectations and goals.

It takes time, but IMHO, it is worth it!

Good luck!

[mystery]

Thanks for the advice. Sorry if I wasn't very clear; really the main issue is knowing how long is required to establish if a nootropic/drug/supplement works or doesn't. That way I can say: "this doesn't work, so now I can move on to something else." Obviously I don't have the time to spend 6 months or a year on one supplement just to make sure I'm not seeing any cognitive benefits before moving on to something else. And all the while I may have to deal with unwanted side effects.

From what I gather, after establishing a suitable nootropic/supplement/drug or combination of them, than I should probably stay on that regime for a couple weeks if not a month as a rule of thumb. After that I will have a good idea of what its cognitive enhancing effects will be (if any). Is this about right?

[meursault]

Thanks for the advice. Sorry if I wasn't very clear; really the main issue is knowing how long is required to establish if a nootropic/drug/supplement works or doesn't. That way I can say: "this doesn't work, so now I can move on to something else." Obviously I don't have the time to spend 6 months or a year on one supplement just to make sure I'm not seeing any cognitive benefits before moving on to something else. And all the while I may have to deal with unwanted side effects.

From what I gather, after establishing a suitable nootropic/supplement/drug or combination of them, than I should probably stay on that regime for a couple weeks if not a month as a rule of thumb. After that I will have a good idea of what its cognitive enhancing effects will be (if any). Is this about right?

No...see, the problem with is that you won't be able to understand what is effecting you and then what to change to improve the combination. If you want specific advice, tell us what you are thinking of using. Otherwise, I don't think you should combine anything at the beginning yet besides a good multi-vitamin, clean omega 3, and 1 nootropic.

From there, take a month, see how you feel. Nootropics probably aren't for you if you are needing immediate and dramatic results. I've been taking piracetam now for almost a year and I'm still deciding what the best dose and frequency is for me (narrowed it down to about 200-300mg 4x a day). Positive results take time, and then, when you find something, you'll always have it! Also, with side effects...it's not like you are going to encounter anything close to awful, maybe headache, restless, or sleepness, but all temporary, as long as you monitor yourself, do some research, and be cautious.

Edited by AntonW, 23 December 2007 - 05:24 PM.