10 replies to this topic

[superpooper]

In my experience doctors are arrogant, overly confident, controlling, and unhelpful. They lie to you if they don't know what's wrong with you. As a matter of fact I think ER doctors are the only doctors that have ever helped me with anything.

Not only that, the whole field is just set up to suppress symptoms. If you actually do some of your own research and you think you found what is causing health problems, doctors will most likely chew you out, basically call you stupid and tell you that's dangerous thinking. Excuse me because I would like to be free from this illness for life, instead of being prescribed a drug that covers up 20% of the problem. I also have pretty strong proof they were wrong on several major issues I have.

If you think this thread isn't being fair, I really don't know what to say. This is my honest to god, life time of experience with doctors.

I do think experimenting excessively with your health on your own can be dangerous. That's not what I'm complaining about. Doctors have little, if any, open mindedness. The whole field is just dogmatic.

[Brainbox]

I understand where you are coming from. However, self medication or more generally, self administration of supplements, has it's weaknesses when objectivity in evaluation of achieved results is considered. Furthermore, monitoring of blood work would be advised as well.

Maybe this could be of help:

LEF list of innovative doctors.
LEF list of innovative clinics.

[caston]

Actually a lot of the time the doctors are so overworked and people shop around so much for doctors that it is hard for a doctor to sit down with a patient and discuss there individual needs especially in terms of preventative medicine. People move around so much and may even go for several years without seeing a doctor. They only finally decide to go when they fall victim to some horrible disease or are at the mercy of the ravages of aging.


It is not surprising that there is a shortage of doctors yet perhaps what is happening is that there a far fewer people now that fit the profile of a traditional doctor. I suspect there is a major shift from doctors to people that will use information technology, genetics and protenomics to deliver next generation health care solutions.

Edited by caston, 19 December 2007 - 03:26 PM.

[maestro949]

If doctors are too busy then we'll simply have to automate their jobs for them. Technology will eventually displace most of the functions that doctors provide. Health evaluation and diagnosing disease is basically if/then/else logic that can be designed right into analysis tools as to what diagnostic or treatment steps a concerned patient should next take in their own health management.

[pycnogenol]

I'm lucky I have a very understanding doctor. She knows I take supplements and has each supplement listed on her work computer.
I get blood tests on a regular basis and even calls me up herself to let me know the blood work results. My cholesterol was a little elevated
last spring and encouraged me to take red yeast rice with CoQ10 and pantethine to see if it would help before going the Rx route.
Now my cholesterol is in the normal range.

Edited by pycnogenol, 19 December 2007 - 11:52 PM.

[Mind]

I have rarely needed a doctor's assistance through most of my life (knock on wood) so I don't have an in-depth experience base from which to base an opinion. In my limited interaction I would say they are 50/50. Some of them are well-informed and willing to listen, while other's basically know one small special field or course of action and that is what they stick with no matter what the symptoms.

Something that definitely has to go are written records/written prescriptions. A recent study indicated that hospitals with modern infromation technology deliver better care. A doctor's crappy hand-writing should no longer be an excuse for medical mistakes.

[Mind]

In a related story IBM predicts doctors will have great new tools to diagnose and treat disease within the next 5 years. Now if they are just willing to use all the new tools (some of the automation might remove the doctors from the equation, as maestro alluded to).

[missminni]

If doctors are too busy then we'll simply have to automate their jobs for them. Technology will eventually displace most of the functions that doctors provide. Health evaluation and diagnosing disease is basically if/then/else logic that can be designed right into analysis tools as to what diagnostic or treatment steps a concerned patient should next take in their own health management.

Regardless of doctors being busy or not,
the idea of technology evaluating and diagnosing and leaving it up to the patient
to choose their treatment option sounds pretty sensible to me.

[wayside]

Regardless of doctors being busy or not,
the idea of technology evaluating and diagnosing and leaving it up to the patient
to choose their treatment option sounds pretty sensible to me.

Maybe the tech is getting better, but the systems I've seen in the past give you results like

84% chance of A, treatment is A'
65% chance of B, treatment is B'
44% chance of C, treatment is C'
43% chance of D, treatment is D'
42% chance of E, treatment is E'
3% chance of F, treatment is F'

How is the average person supposed to make decisions based on this? This is where a good doctor's skill/experience/intuition comes into play.

If you have a crappy doctor I think the best answer is to find a new doctor, not replace him with a piece of software.

[maestro949]

Regardless of doctors being busy or not,
the idea of technology evaluating and diagnosing and leaving it up to the patient
to choose their treatment option sounds pretty sensible to me.

Maybe the tech is getting better, but the systems I've seen in the past give you results like

84% chance of A, treatment is A'
65% chance of B, treatment is B'
44% chance of C, treatment is C'
43% chance of D, treatment is D'
42% chance of E, treatment is E'
3% chance of F, treatment is F'

How is the average person supposed to make decisions based on this? This is where a good doctor's skill/experience/intuition comes into play.

If you have a crappy doctor I think the best answer is to find a new doctor, not replace him with a piece of software.

The software will not come online overnight. It'll be an evolution where the software will continuously improve. Those % chances and information will improve and be translated into easier to understand language as the diagnostic tools take more and more biological parameters into account. Early versions of the software (such as the one you cite) will only be readable by a doctor today but any analysis and value add she provides in translating that data to a patient can also captured and automated thus eliminating the need of a doctor as a messenger.

skill/experience/intuition mean nothing in an automation and information age. Only the numbers matter. Bottom line: If something can be automated - it will be automated.

Edited by maestro949, 19 December 2007 - 09:19 PM.

[missminni]

Regardless of doctors being busy or not,
the idea of technology evaluating and diagnosing and leaving it up to the patient
to choose their treatment option sounds pretty sensible to me.

Maybe the tech is getting better, but the systems I've seen in the past give you results like

84% chance of A, treatment is A'
65% chance of B, treatment is B'
44% chance of C, treatment is C'
43% chance of D, treatment is D'
42% chance of E, treatment is E'
3% chance of F, treatment is F'

How is the average person supposed to make decisions based on this? This is where a good doctor's skill/experience/intuition comes into play.

If you have a crappy doctor I think the best answer is to find a new doctor, not replace him with a piece of software.

IMO, or what I would do:
Once diagnosed, investigate the condition as to it's causes and it's treatments, be they surgical, pharmaceutical or alternative, decide what course of treatment you want to follow, and find a doctor that specializes in that specific course of treatment. That way, doctor and patient work together as a team, with patient being in charge of his own health.