12 replies to this topic

[MP11]

Just wondering if anyone knew the toxicity level/UL/max dosage for picamilon.

Thanks.

[dopamine]

Just wondering if anyone knew the toxicity level/UL/max dosage for picamilon.

Thanks.

Unknown, as virtually every study ever conducted on Picamilon is within Russian medical journals with no full text access. I wouldn't even bother with it as there are no results that can be (or have ever been) reproduced in peer-reviewed medical journals, which leads me to suspect that Picamilon is merely encapsulated snake oil.

[ortcloud]

Just wondering if anyone knew the toxicity level/UL/max dosage for picamilon.

Thanks.

Unknown, as virtually every study ever conducted on Picamilon is within Russian medical journals with no full text access. I wouldn't even bother with it as there are no results that can be (or have ever been) reproduced in peer-reviewed medical journals, which leads me to suspect that Picamilon is merely encapsulated snake oil.

So you dont try anything that hasnt appeared in a peer review medical journal and thus must be snake oil ?

wow, very sorry to hear that.

Serisouly I really feel bad for you. You know the feeling you get when you see an innocent little kid with a missing limb or crippled, its just sad and makes you feel sorry for them because they have to go through life missing out on so much. My heart goes out to you !

Maybe we could all chip in and get you some help for your condition.
Maybe we could get a cult deprogrammer or do some hypnosis or something.

Hang in there for now bro-

Edited by ortcloud, 29 December 2007 - 01:38 AM.

[dopamine]

Just wondering if anyone knew the toxicity level/UL/max dosage for picamilon.

Thanks.

Unknown, as virtually every study ever conducted on Picamilon is within Russian medical journals with no full text access. I wouldn't even bother with it as there are no results that can be (or have ever been) reproduced in peer-reviewed medical journals, which leads me to suspect that Picamilon is merely encapsulated snake oil.

So you dont try anything that hasnt appeared in a peer review medical journal and thus must be snake oil ?

wow, very sorry to hear that.

Serisouly I really feel bad for you. You know the feeling you get when you see an innocent little kid with a missing limb or crippled, its just sad and makes you feel sorry for them because they have to go through life missing out on so much. My heart goes out to you !

Maybe we could all chip in and get you some help for your condition.
Maybe we could get a cult deprogrammer or do some hypnosis or something.

Hang in there for now bro-

I appreciate your sympathy but I believe it is misplaced. Picamilon is intended (at least according to the limited literature) to treat conditions as a medicine - a category of material which requires certain standards of evidence in order to evaluate relative safety (e.g. the LD50, as the original poster was concerned with). Furthermore, I don't quite see how your extrapolation of my comments has anything to do with the issue being discussed, i.e. the evidence for the substance in question.

It is my understanding that this is a forum for scientific discussion; if you wish to bring personal commentary into the debate, I suggest you do so elsewhere.

[ortcloud]

It is my understanding that this is a forum for scientific discussion; if you wish to bring personal commentary into the debate, I suggest you do so elsewhere.

Me bringing personal commentary into the debate ? wow thats rich !

The original poster asked about toxicity and you respond with personal commentary involving fear about efficacy. We discuss science and experimentation in here and for you to try to discourage that by invalidating a supplement using big pharma "dont even think about trying something without us telling you it is ok" fear tactics is totally unacceptable. Picamilon is niacin and gaba and is sold as a dietary supplement in the USA, so dont try to shoehorn it into another category based on "intentions" in medical literature and then use that weak basis to project your personal fear and then try to induce fear and doubt in others.

Edited by ortcloud, 30 December 2007 - 04:55 AM.

[tarbtl]

Picamilon is completely worthless. Tottttally useless. ALL it did was prevent benzos from working if taken within 4 hours apart.

[graatch]

Picamilon is niacin and gaba

That's retarded. Picamilon has it's own capabilities, and own set of concerns. There's really very little known about this supplement -- dopamine is absolutely right to urge caution.

and is sold as a dietary supplement in the USA

I like how you contradict yourself. Empirical studies are worthless because of some imaginary link to big pharma, but the FDA designation is what it's all about? Impure colloidal silver is sold as a dietary supplement too.

[ortcloud]

That's retarded. Picamilon has it's own capabilities, and own set of concerns. There's really very little known about this supplement -- dopamine is absolutely right to urge caution.

and is sold as a dietary supplement in the USA

I like how you contradict yourself. Empirical studies are worthless because of some imaginary link to big pharma, but the FDA designation is what it's all about? Impure colloidal silver is sold as a dietary supplement too.

Dopamine didnt urge caution ? he arbitrarily invalidated efficacy, two totally different ends of the spectrum. Did you even read the thread ?


regarding your second comment, I have no idea what you are saying here, I can only assume there is some language barrier translation issue. Is english your primary language ?

[dopamine]

It is my understanding that this is a forum for scientific discussion; if you wish to bring personal commentary into the debate, I suggest you do so elsewhere.

Me bringing personal commentary into the debate ? wow thats rich !

The original poster asked about toxicity and you respond with personal commentary involving fear about efficacy. We discuss science and experimentation in here and for you to try to discourage that by invalidating a supplement using big pharma "dont even think about trying something without us telling you it is ok" fear tactics is totally unacceptable. Picamilon is niacin and gaba and is sold as a dietary supplement in the USA, so dont try to shoehorn it into another category based on "intentions" in medical literature and then use that weak basis to project your personal fear and then try to induce fear and doubt in others.

Yes, the original poster asked about toxicity, and I replied that I don't believe it is shown usefulness for any medical condition, hence why I said "I wouldn't bother with it." I stated my opinion on the state of research, not a proclamation that holds any authority over anyone. Moreover, the only research on Picamilon is where it is considered a medicine, not a dietary supplement - Russia, and a few other eastern European countries. Hence it's intention as a substance in the scientific literature is medicinal, not supplemental; at least until any more research is conducted on the compound.

If you'd like to have a dispassionate, scientific discussion about Picamilon I'd be glad to participate. I am not interested, however, in having a discussion of a personal nature that has nothing to do with the evidence or scientific support for the substance in question.

Edited by dopamine, 30 December 2007 - 07:33 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

Just wondering if anyone knew the toxicity level/UL/max dosage for picamilon.

Thanks.

Unknown, as virtually every study ever conducted on Picamilon is within Russian medical journals with no full text access. I wouldn't even bother with it as there are no results that can be (or have ever been) reproduced in peer-reviewed medical journals, which leads me to suspect that Picamilon is merely encapsulated snake oil.

Very typical American attitude. I guess you think since Russians don't speak english they are incapable of doing scientific research. Your loss...

Edited by abelard lindsay, 31 December 2007 - 09:26 AM.

[meursault]

Can someone please lock this thread?

[abelard lindsay]

FYI, there are over 34 studies on pubmed on Picamilon. Here's one regarding toxicity:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14558352
[Preclinical prognosis of pyracetam and picamilon safety based on acute toxicity data]

[Article in Russian]

Bugaeva LI, Spasov AA, Verovskii VE, Iezhitsa IN.

Institute of Pharmacology, Volgograd State Medical Academy, pl. Pavshikh Bortsov 1a, Volgograd, 400066 Russia.

A comparative acute toxicity test of the nootropic drugs piracetam and picamilon was performed on rats. The study was based on the principles of integral evaluation of the drug effect upon the functional and behavioral state of animals. It was found that the conventional therapeutic index does not coincide with the actual therapeutic activity range. Piracetam and picamilon, while exhibiting significantly different toxicity, are characterized by approximately equal ranges of the therapeutic activity.

PMID: 14558352 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

To the original poster. I would only take the recommended dosage that the label on the bottle says to. BTW, In this thread there's a debate about Picamilion half way down the thread:

http://www.imminst.o...?showtopic=7156

Edited by abelard lindsay, 31 December 2007 - 09:28 AM.

[KiloWatts]

For the record, I have taken Picamilon on a semi-regular basis, and experienced an immediate effect.

Heightened cognition, heightened awareness, lifted spirits, and an increase in energy.