CHAT ARCHIVE:
18:00:00 BruceK * BruceK Official Chat Starts :: Topic - Student Transhumanist Network
18:00:29 Ben_Hijink TSN: How to grow it and spread THsm
18:00:32 BruceK So.. Ben.. how is recruitment going?
18:01:10 Ben_Hijink TSN is still growing slowly
18:01:28 EmilG Ben: Have you found any interest in the Boston area?
18:01:45 Ben_Hijink We need some campaigns to break through to groups outside the THst circles
18:02:12 kevin Ben: What kind of campaigns would you suggest?
18:02:33 Ben_Hijink I don't live in Boston, but another Ben does
18:02:40 googlebot
http://www.transhumanism.org/campus/ 18:03:05 Ben_Hijink His last name escapes me, but he is looking for profs and students in law to network w/
18:04:17 BruceK What projects do you have in mind for TSN?
18:04:29 Ben_Hijink Here are a few topics for discussion - darn, I can't paste
18:04:42 haploid Oh
18:04:43 BruceK sorry... java doesnt allow paste..
18:04:46 kevin
18:04:59 kevin get out the pen and paper.
18:05:00 haploid I thought it was a public chat with Natasha Vita More
18:05:10 BruceK next week hap.
18:05:12 Coyote can you try to paste wiht control V?
18:05:15 Ben_Hijink look at this page while we converse:
http://groups.yahoo....mpus/message/68 18:05:25 HarryGato HarryGato is now known as Sat-Daddy
18:05:30 Eliezer ben, if you've got mozilla, type irc::/imminst.org/immortal
18:06:20 Eliezer page appears to be members-only
18:06:33 Ben_Hijink didn't work - will manage
18:06:34 Mind click on home for more info
18:06:51 Ben_Hijink Ok progects...
18:06:56 kevin 1. We want to be an international student movement. While I think out of necessity the top level of the TSN leadership will need to be run using English, I would like to create opportunities for participation and leadership to people who speak other languages. How might this be organized? We can start by offering translations of the TSN page and brochures, and then perhaps regional/continental... Thoughts? Offers?
18:07:22 mporter montreal transhumanist association has experience with multilingualism
18:07:48 Ben_Hijink Thanks Kevin!
18:08:01 caliban * caliban offers hooking you up w/ the germans if needed
18:08:11 kevin k.. let me know when you want the net
18:08:13 kevin *next
18:08:50 Ben_Hijink mporter - would you be interested in doing a French translation?
18:09:07 mporter i don't speak french
18:09:08 Infinity Infinity (Infinity@[death to spam].adsl-68-121-242-137.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) has joined #immortal
18:09:14 Ben_Hijink Spanish?
18:09:19 Infinity greetz all
18:09:28 Ben_Hijink Hey Infinity
18:09:33 Mind Is there any software out there that can do real time translation
18:09:41 EmilG ... Free Inquirer will be doing an article on transhumanism?
18:09:43 Gustavo No
18:09:44 mporter world.altavista.com
18:09:54 haploid systran, but it is very poor output.
18:09:56 mporter for a first draft
18:10:00 Coyote babelfisg
18:10:02 Gustavo not even
18:10:03 Coyote babelfish
18:10:05 Ben_Hijink I interviewed Cyborg Steve Mann for the issue
18:10:12 kevin the results are laughable..
18:10:17 Coyote I know
18:10:17 Gustavo (I'm a native spanish speaker, they don't work)
18:10:22 Mind ok
18:10:27 Mind hopefully soon
18:10:34 EmilG Hello, Natasha.
18:10:45 Ben_Hijink HelLo Natasha
18:10:46 Natasha_Vita-More Hi!
18:10:53 Natasha_Vita-More Hey there Ben -
18:11:00 kevin hello Natasha..
18:11:09 Natasha_Vita-More Yo Kevin --
18:11:21 John_Ventureville Howdy Natasha!
18:11:34 Mind Has the official chat begun yet?
18:11:38 Ben_Hijink Ok, so I'm thinkning , once we get an international structure established we can create regional ones
18:11:47 Natasha_Vita-More I'm confused about the times. I thought Ben was on at 7 and I'm on at 8. Did that get changed?
18:11:55 caliban OFFICIAL CHAT underway --
http://imminst.org/f...=99&t=1977&st=0 18:12:43 Ben_Hijink MM apparently we are supposed to speak at the same time : )
18:12:54 Ben_Hijink I can wait and come back in an hour
18:13:09 BruceK welcome natasha.. your chat is next week at 8pm Eastern
18:13:20 BruceK sorry for the confusion
18:13:21 caliban Natasha, I think you on next week :-)
18:13:24 Natasha_Vita-More Figures :-)
18:13:26 kevin but we LOVE that you made it early!
18:13:34 Natasha_Vita-More Geez, I'm really embarassed! :-)
18:13:38 haploid Yes, I was under the wrong impression as well.
18:13:40 Sat-Daddy * Sat-Daddy chuckles
18:13:41 Coyote natasha stick around anyway =]
18:13:42 kevin chuckle.
18:13:55 Ben_Hijink Please do!@
18:13:57 John_Ventureville Natasha, it's still very cool having the Extropy Institute president among us.
18:14:02 kevin Better than being late Natahsa..
18:14:15 Natasha_Vita-More Okay, let's get started with the keynote -Ben: What are your currently plans for networking students?
18:14:32 BruceK Natach_this is Chestnut, you make us proud being here early...usually are gender is late
18:14:48 Natasha_Vita-More I'm blushing ...
18:14:52 John_Ventureville !!!
18:14:59 kevin Currently the point under discussion is translational difficulties...
18:15:03 Ben_Hijink I think people may be more excited by projects than positions, and rojects are very much needed
18:15:04 kevin * kevin puts point up again..
18:15:06 kevin 1. We want to be an international student movement. While I think
18:15:06 kevin out of necessity the top level of the TSN leadership will need to be
18:15:06 kevin run using English, I would like to create opportunities for
18:15:06 kevin participation and leadership to people who speak other languages.
18:15:06 kevin How might this be organized? We can start by offering translations
18:15:07 kevin of the TSN page and brochures, and then perhaps
18:15:09 kevin regional/continental... Thoughts? Offers?
18:15:19 kevin * kevin ends point
18:15:28 mporter this is a left-field comment, but i always wanted to see fm-2030 translated into farsi
18:15:44 Natasha_Vita-More English is the Global language. Recently, when in Estonia, all university professors spoke English.
18:15:45 Ben_Hijink Thanks Kevin
18:16:09 John_Ventureville whatever happened to "esperanto?"
18:16:18 haploid lojban
18:16:20 Mind Just go with English until good software translation is available
18:16:22 Ben_Hijink Good point, it seems to be working well for most of the WTA lists
18:16:28 Infinity I'm most interested in the student to professional networking... I need some guidance before I graduate
18:16:47 Coyote kevin: where can I find the "brochure" content?
18:17:26 Ben_Hijink you can go to
http://www.transhumanism.org/campus to find the few brochures we have
18:17:44 caliban
http://www.transhuma.../TSNleaflet.doc 18:18:27 Ben_Hijink Let's divide this discussion into two sections, outreach to grow the TSN and networking to help active students in the THst movement
18:18:32 Coyote spaceba balshoi
18:18:46 EmilG EmilG is now known as EmilG-Away
18:19:21 Ben_Hijink I'll move to networking later in the hour, but for now, what do you all think the TSN needs to do to appeal to "youth"
18:19:39 Ben_Hijink culture and academia?
18:20:15 Coyote Ben: well it already has a high cool factor, I think it will take of wiht enough dissemination of content
18:20:32 Ben_Hijink I aks this because I think I am fairly good at structuring groups, managing projects and creatiung "PR" material, but
18:20:35 caliban all young H^ people are goths or roleplayers or techfreaks - appeal to that
18:20:51 Infinity I think outings/get togethers attract youth members... like when we went to gameworks or when you guys went bowling
18:21:02 John_Ventureville great point!
18:21:04 Ben_Hijink I feel deficient in my ability to connect with many people not already in the movements
18:21:06 haploid That's quite a claim, caliban.
18:21:19 Eliezer *snrk*
18:21:28 Ben_Hijink snrk?
18:21:31 John_Ventureville look at how evangelicals attract new people on campuses all over
18:21:34 Natasha_Vita-More Ben, I can help you connect with people not in the transhumanist movement. I have an outlined strategy for this.
18:21:40 Eliezer "young people these days"
18:21:45 Eliezer just *ask* the young people in question
18:21:56 kevin Bend: Have you tried putting on seminars at the Universities that are widely promoted?
18:22:00 Eliezer they're not members of another species
18:22:11 Mermaid evangelists offer something
18:22:16 John_Ventureville yes
18:22:17 Mermaid tangible even if its not real
18:22:17 haploid Young people most certainly are not "goths, roleplayers, or techfreaks"
18:22:24 Coyote heh
18:22:32 caliban * caliban flees so he does not have to substantiate his claim
18:22:42 Ben_Hijink Natasha, you say you have a strategy outlined?
18:22:42 caliban Mode change [+o kevin] on #immortal by caliban
18:22:47 kevin I've found that just talking to the young 'drifting' minds of students is helpful..
18:22:47 caliban caliban (~c@[death to spam].dyn070164.shef.ac.uk) has quit IRC [Quit: ]
18:22:47 John_Ventureville evangelicals put on seminars and also have fun "get to know us" activities
18:23:04 John_Ventureville just putting up a booth can be a great idea
18:23:08 RotaerkAWAY RotaerkAWAY (Rotaerk@[death to spam].129.252.201.107) has joined #immortal
18:23:28 Ben_Hijink I am starting a group at NU that will have its first meeting Monday
18:23:34 kevin A computer kiosk?
18:23:54 Coyote booth at burning man?
18:23:56 Ben_Hijink I have attracted some Objectivists, but that's it so far
18:24:02 John_Ventureville how easy is it to get permission to set up a computer kiosk on a college campus?
18:24:11 John_Ventureville how many hoops do you have to jump through to do it?
18:24:14 Natasha_Vita-More Most students in high school or first years of college are involved in sports and cultural projects. The museums have all sorts of programs for students, on one hand, and sports assocations have outreach programs on the other. Communities within cities and rural areas are always looking for imaginative ideas. The issue is what ideas to provide and how to pad the ideas so that they are not strictly focused on hu
18:24:21 kevin Natasha: do you have a link to your strategy for connection?
18:24:41 Natasha_Vita-More I took the bloody thing down because no one paid any attentin to it :-)
18:24:51 kevin heh
18:24:53 Ben_Hijink lol
18:25:05 kevin seems the time has come to put it back up again..
18:25:27 Infinity I would take it down too if it was bloody
18:26:17 John_Ventureville was it covered in the blood of luddites?
18:26:19 John_Ventureville ; )
18:26:22 kevin I'm thinking the regular 'powerpoint' seminar in the afternoon in an appropriate university venue might be helpful
18:26:32 Natasha_Vita-More But, I learned from hands on that a great way to get a community involved is to do a cable TV program that is so inexpensive it's almost funny. (I can't stop laughing as I'm trying to think here) ... anyway, I did very well with my cable program in LA and Telluride, Colorado. I'm thinking of doing another one here in Austin. We could network cable tv programs and show them at all sorts of campuses and communit
18:26:47 John_Ventureville excellent idea
18:27:02 John_Ventureville but for any type of campus event you must remember....
18:27:07 Coyote NVT do you have one pre-recorded and ready ?
18:27:09 kevin Would copies of the programs be available Natasha?
18:27:20 Ben_Hijink That would be great
18:27:50 John_Ventureville ADVERTISE FOR A CAMPUS EVENT THAT YOU WILL HAVE REFRESHMENTS!
18:28:07 kevin * kevin agrees with JV..
18:28:10 Natasha_Vita-More Also, and this is way cool - a friend of mine (Philip (president of Foresight Institue, Europe) and I want to do a collaborative project with online tv. It could feed into this type of idea where it is broadcast on the net and also on cable tv. Public Access sounds so dorky, but it is really an excellent way to do a bit of idea memetic gardening.
18:28:11 Infinity yeah people always come for the free food
18:28:20 Ben_Hijink meme spreading via various media coiuld maximize our efforts
18:28:59 mporter which is wiser, to try to win converts, or just to be visible, so that people so inclined will be able to find you
18:29:19 Ben_Hijink I certainly will bring at least one THst speaker to campus this year
18:29:29 Coyote mporter: not mutualy exclusive
18:29:38 Infinity mporter: the latter obviously
18:29:42 Natasha_Vita-More We could use the campuses that are already tech-ready. For example, Austin is trying to be a fllm center and is offering a heck of a lot of courses at UT. USC, UCLA, Stanford, MIT, etc love to be involved in world-idea-marketing. If you treat this like a business, it would be good.
18:30:43 John_Ventureville What about creating a very "exclusive" transhumanist group which is about as easy to join as an elite country club?
18:30:49 Coyote heh
18:31:07 Coyote JV: that leaves me out
18:31:12 John_Ventureville LOL
18:31:18 John_Ventureville why?
18:31:26 Ben_Hijink If we could get institutions to value our ideas, we could market to them directly in addition to the student groups
18:31:34 haploid I fail to see how proselytising and other social games will bring us closer to the singularity.
18:31:47 John_Ventureville Anders Sandberg should be here for this discussion
18:31:58 kevin Why is it necessary to have institutions value your ideas if they are already valuable? They speak for themselves to people who are awake enough to listen.
18:32:15 BruceK * BruceK will asks Sanders to join us for a chat in the future
18:32:15 Coyote critical mass
18:32:16 haploid Particularly with a demographic which is least likely to have access to capital.
18:32:18 Natasha_Vita-More Another suggestion (bloody luddites make me laugh), would be to work with Max More on the business end of networking for students. Jeannie Novak is also a person I think you should talk to. She just finished her masters at USC in online eduation with gaming as the focus. She teaches at UCLA and at the Art Institute in LA. Her business is Indiespace out of Santa Monica. She, like you, is on ExI's EAT team.
18:33:12 John_Ventureville Bruce, EXCELLENT! Anders is the man!
18:33:23 John_Ventureville Natasha, "EAT" team?
18:33:45 Natasha_Vita-More Executive Advisory Team - Ben is the Student networking leader.
18:33:48 Ben_Hijink Executive Advisory Team
18:33:55 John_Ventureville thank you
18:33:56 Infinity I think a lot of >Hist types are somewhat socially isolated. Invitations for social get togethers, especially involving both sexes, would get these people to attend >Hist meetings.
18:34:16 kevin Ben: Have you found the "Transhumanist Meetup" successful?
18:35:00 Natasha_Vita-More I'd like to tear down this myth. Someone, somewhere started a myth that transhumanists are unattractive, skinny, bookworms who know nothing about socialization, culture or wine. Must have been someone in Silicon Valley, because in New York and LA, T's rock.
18:35:05 kevin
http://transhumanism.meetup.com/ 18:35:14 Ben_Hijink As a formerly isolated Midwesterner, I can attest that having a social group of people w/ shared ideas around makes you more active
18:35:36 Coyote Natasha: just show them my picture
18:35:49 Natasha_Vita-More Okay Coyote. You be cute.
18:36:00 kevin I think the first 'transhumans' may be higher functioning and thus more 'bookish' but the appeal is universal
18:36:21 John_Ventureville Cryonicists are also very stereotyped.
18:36:33 Ben_Hijink With the MeetUp, it's not so much about success in meeting others, it's abouyt creating a presence everywhere that people encounter
18:36:34 Natasha_Vita-More But most of them don't eat.
18:37:05 John_Ventureville Oh, don't pick on Mike Perry!
18:37:07 John_Ventureville : )
18:37:12 John_Ventureville lol
18:37:19 Natasha_Vita-More lol
18:37:21 Ben_Hijink People joining the system for one thing may come across our stuff - same w/ friendster and tribe
18:37:47 BruceK we need to have an online radio
18:37:50 Natasha_Vita-More Tribe is a really bad term to use. John Smart uses it and it really caused a lot of people to not want to hang out with him.
18:38:02 Coyote cohort?
18:38:13 Natasha_Vita-More cohort is good. Colleague is better.
18:38:28 Natasha_Vita-More Associates.
18:38:32 Coyote =]
18:38:33 Ben_Hijink Agreed re THst gathering, just Tribe.com
18:38:52 Ben_Hijink or .net, rforgotten
18:38:53 mporter in theory a transhumanist student network could be a club for likeminded people, a group of rabblerousing visionaries, or a sober network of future leaders. are there any indications yet as to its future character?
18:39:21 John_Ventureville damn good question
18:39:24 kevin mporter: good question
18:39:38 kevin both I think
18:39:47 Natasha_Vita-More It seems it should be a networking organization to help students realize their future career paths and to set up and "internship" with businesses in their fields.
18:39:54 Coyote Is Jeannie Novak or anyone working on a Transhumanist theme RPG game?
18:40:13 John_Ventureville what about "Orion's Arm"?
18:40:15 Natasha_Vita-More I'm very mechanica. I'm not very techical. What is RPG?
18:40:17 Ben_Hijink It puzzles me, I've justlain the groundwork, a new student culture is really just forming
18:40:28 Coyote role play
18:40:37 Sat-Daddy Sat-Daddy (~santyr@[death to spam].1Cust248.tnt1.steamboat-springs.co.da.uu.net) has left #immortal
18:40:44 Infinity Natasha: I am in LA, and, while T's do "rock", they also are more interested in social gatherings than business meetings. Case in point: Your group at the Getty, Kifune group, etc. get under a dozen people per gathering because it is just people getting together to talk. The Unite the Future event that invited people to dance, listen to music, watch video, etc. gathered probably 1,000 people.
18:40:48 kevin Can the WTA align itself with any existing University organizations/fraternities etc.. ?
18:40:56 Natasha_Vita-More Okay, role play. Yes. She is becoming a well-known figure in this area. She gave a key note on it at Mac World 2003
18:41:08 haploid I wouldd guess no, since a game is a suboptimal resource allocation.
18:41:46 Natasha_Vita-More My group at the Getty was intended to only have a dozen or less people. Getty would not allow more than that.
18:42:05 Ben_Hijink WTA is becoming a cooperating member of the InternationalSociety for Humanism and Ethics and the Center for Inquiry
18:42:21 BruceK Natasha, how did your meeting with Kurzweil go?
18:42:22 Ben_Hijink I don't know about universities though
18:42:35 haploid A modern commercial game requires $2-20MM of initial investment capital. Any sane transhumanist would use the cash and programming resources to assist an AGI project.
18:43:00 Natasha_Vita-More Meeting with Kurzweil - excellent. We will be exhibiting our work at a MoTA (Museum of Transhumanist Arts) exhbition in 2004.
18:43:11 BruceK wonderful
18:43:12 Ben_Hijink TSN could market RPGs
18:43:48 Infinity coyote: I am writing a >H RPG game:
http://www.angelfire...c/infinityhome/ 18:43:54 Coyote thx
18:44:06 BruceK when we talk RPGs we're talking about software programs like 'doom' right?
18:44:13 Coyote Infinity: now.. can the game "learn" from its players?
18:44:19 Coyote yea
18:44:29 Infinity nope, tabletop
18:44:47 BruceK * BruceK doesn't get the connection between RPG's and advancing TSN
18:44:51 Ben_Hijink I would like to dosome project expaning awareness in the lgbt communities and draw parallel between rights advocacy
18:45:18 Natasha_Vita-More Connection was that we were talking about networking and what to provide students. Internships are good, and then I mentioned Jeannie Novak and her work with online education and gaming.
18:45:29 Ben_Hijink That's cool Infinity
18:45:56 BruceK ah, thanks natasha
18:46:44 Ben_Hijink Yes, there are a few new connections I've made regarding the Network
18:46:53 Natasha_Vita-More There are so many organizations that deal with rights. Most students are currently opposed to Globalization and genetic modifications. Greenpeace has a lead here. So, to counter this movement, think outside the box. By this I mean to develop a reason for students to get togther than actually has something to do with their life - their work - their livelhood. BUSINESS.
18:47:12 Infinity thanks, ben. I've been hard at work on it
18:47:32 mporter www.takingitglobal.org is an interesting example of global youth networking
18:47:33 haploid amazing.
18:47:58 Natasha_Vita-More I like the name taking it global. What ideas do they subscribe to?
18:48:10 John_Ventureville Natasha, you make such a crucial point in that we need to show young people we are just not a "relax and talk about the future" social club but instead an activist group dedicated to making a real difference in this world.
18:48:37 mporter TakingITGlobal (TIG) is about encouraging young people to believe in themselves and their ability to make a difference in the world. We create environments where people are exposed to new thinking, a diversity of voices, and new opportunities. Driven by youth, our goal is to foster a sense of leadership and social entrepreneurship through the innovative use of technology, creating meaningful experiences for young people around the w
18:48:50 mporter what interests me about TIG is its reach, they have people in congo and north korea
18:49:09 Infinity John: yes, but right now we are talking about outreach. generating interest is step one. Activism is step 2.
18:49:18 Natasha_Vita-More Excellent. How do I become a member? I"m working on another masters degree (in Science) so I'm a student :-)
18:49:18 John_Ventureville gotcha
18:49:20 Ben_Hijink Perhaps I should be thinking of ways to directly integrate the two areas, networking and outreach, from the start, the moment someone finds us
18:50:11 Ben_Hijink TSN needs to work toward affiliating with this group!
18:50:38 mporter at their homepage, they have a latest updates section, and top headline is 'nanotech breakthrough'
18:50:41 mporter there may be some receptivity
18:50:53 John_Ventureville Ben, I think it's very smart to going networking with outreach since by saying "come change the world for the better with us" you grab the attention of potential members.
18:51:50 prometheus prometheus (~duane@[death to spam].c-67-163-128-75.client.comcast.net) has joined #immortal
18:52:32 Natasha_Vita-More I'm typing sloppy, sorry.
18:52:43 Coyote its irc
18:52:51 mporter here's the place to add an organization to TIG's listing:
http://www.takingitg...s.html?new=true 18:52:55 BruceK sloppy typing is considered cool
18:53:06 Natasha_Vita-More :-)
18:53:15 BruceK irc = internet relay chat - fyi
18:53:22 Ben_Hijink DJ Grothe of the Humanist Center for Inquiry has advised me to let events lead the way in PR. Just as we can hype what events we do on campus, we can also introduce ourselves as an organization to hep students actualize their potential and change the world
18:53:40 Natasha_Vita-More Good. I like this.
18:53:46 Ben_Hijink \Thanks mportwer!
18:53:55 kevin Excellent site mporter!
18:54:16 kevin is it Canadian based? I see a Toronto phone number as the example.
18:55:01 John_Ventureville Is anyone taking notes on all of this? Will the ideas discussed here today be summarized in a Imm. Inst. article?
18:55:19 BruceK at the very least.. there will be a log posted
18:55:20 Ben_Hijink I'm scribbling down names and sites
18:55:38 BruceK under Ben's article link on the homepage of imminst
18:56:01 John_Ventureville "The doom of men is that they forget!"
18:56:15 John_Ventureville and the film was...?
18:56:37 BruceK Jaws
18:56:42 John_Ventureville for 400 points!
18:56:58 John_Ventureville minus 400 points for Bruce
18:57:01 John_Ventureville : (
18:57:07 BruceK ugg
18:57:28 John_Ventureville it was a John Boorman film
18:57:40 kevin are they any 'transhuman' flavored music groups that might be willing to back a student outreach for the TSN?
18:57:58 Natasha_Vita-More Yes. Email me off chat and I'll send you names.
18:58:09 BruceK hey, john.. did you get an email from a guy asking for copy of 'Immortality on Ice' = discover program?
18:58:19 John_Ventureville I did.
18:58:24 haploid Joe Satriani's most recent album is entitled Engines off Creation.
18:58:28 John_Ventureville I sent her the needed info plus a bonus.
18:58:29 haploid er of
18:58:50 Natasha_Vita-More Good night everyone. It was a pleasure spending an hour with you all.
18:58:53 BruceK let me guess..
18:59:00 John_Ventureville Natasha, good night
18:59:02 BruceK a free copy of 'Physical Immortality"
18:59:03 kevin g'nite Natasha.. c ya next week..
18:59:04 Ben_Hijink Good night!
18:59:13 John_Ventureville may your ulu knife always cut well
18:59:15 BruceK take care Natasha.. see ya next week
18:59:15 John_Ventureville : )
18:59:33 mporter
http://www.satriani....Of_Creation.jpg 18:59:43 Ben_Hijink I think my time might be best spent developing a network and media for distribution
18:59:45 kevin cool.. thnx mporter..
18:59:55 mporter there's a track called 'borg sex'
19:00:05 mporter o-kay
19:01:11 Ben_Hijink wouln't that be like self-sex?
19:01:17 kevin Ben: I'm planning on doing some life-extension presentations at my university and will let you know if I find much in the way of an interest in forming a transhumanist group
19:01:54 kevin you got the MP3 for the album yet mporter?
19:01:59 mporter no speakers here
19:02:13 John_Ventureville speaking of life extension....
19:02:20 Ben_Hijink Thanks Kevin. Send me your presentations if possible and I will try to put them up on the site. I think we need to collect resources
19:02:26 kevin ahh.. btw.. album = CD in modern terminology
19:02:34 John_Ventureville the second issue of Physical Immortality magazine is coming out in roughly a week
19:02:52 kevin exactly Ben: we could use a full time presentation and media creator..
19:03:06 mporter ben, do you know what happened to the MIT extropians?
19:03:15 John_Ventureville great question
19:03:18 Ben_Hijink Money, too bad
19:03:36 John_Ventureville considering their lack of political savvy
19:03:38 EmilG-Away mporter: didn't the founders send out a very controversial e-mail to the campus, or something?
19:03:48 EmilG-Away EmilG-Away is now known as EmilG
19:04:00 Ben_Hijink I've heard gossip about how they went awry. They no longer exist
19:04:08 mporter but the founders must
19:04:12 mporter what's become of them
19:04:15 mporter would they have advice
19:04:22 EmilG That was like 7 years ago, wasn't it?
19:04:34 John_Ventureville they decided to "make their mark" by opposing affirmative action. Big Mistake.
19:04:48 EmilG John: They did far more than that, actually.
19:04:48 BruceK * BruceK Official Chat Ends
19:05:01 BruceK Ben, feel free to stick around...
19:05:21 Ben_Hijink Yeah,and I heard one or two of them toted The Bell Curve on behalf of the club. Great move
19:05:31 kevin * kevin must get read to go to the 'Thheeater'..
19:05:31 John_Ventureville damn!
19:05:34 John_Ventureville : (
19:05:44 serenade` Ben, try to motivate Erin D.
19:05:51 BruceK what's movie kev?
19:05:58 Coyote ok well I have to go work on my bench press, squat, deadlift- need to break that geek stereotype
19:05:59 mporter i think this is one of them:
http://www.stanford....nts/davis.shtml 19:06:04 EmilG
http://web.mit.edu/o...ticles/ad1.html 19:06:05 mporter can't find han huang anywhere
19:06:08 Ben_Hijink Thanks Bruce, it was pretty intense for me as I'm not used to chat rooms
19:06:10 kevin oh.. it's much more high falootin.. it's the real Theeatre!
19:06:22 BruceK Ben, you did great.. this is a crazy chat at times
19:06:29 kevin (my sister bought the tiks for my b-day.. I have no idea what the show is..
)
19:06:37 John_Ventureville They needed a young Max More or Greg Burch to get them going on the right path.
19:06:39 EmilG Oh, one of them is at Stanford now?
19:06:50 BruceK Ah.. Happy Bday.. that's right
19:06:54 Coyote Coyote is now known as Coyote_gravitylessons
19:07:02 EmilG HMm.
19:07:14 Ben_Hijink serenade, how do you know Erin Deveruex?
19:07:14 kevin LOL it was in July.. but the show wasn't until now.. like a play or something..
19:07:38 kevin chuckle.. at this rate I'll be 50 before I know it.
19:07:45 Ben_Hijink And do YOU know how to motivate her? lol
19:07:45 EmilG Well... this was 6 years ago, and the offended MIT students have graduated by now. Still, I don't know if MIT would disallow a group called the MIT Extropians.
19:08:01 mporter what's erin doing now
19:08:07 kevin * kevin needs to be de-stinkified.. must smell pretty for the upper crust
19:08:10 serenade` Ben_Hijink, i've known her for a year online and no I have no idea how to motivate her lol
19:08:22 EmilG I think any new MIT group should be called the MIT Transhumanist Association
19:08:23 kevin kevin is now known as kevin-away
19:09:04 John_Ventureville Natasha VIta-More & Max may need to personally get things going on the MIT campus by a careful recruiting campaign to start an extropians group which will not foolishly self-destruct.
19:09:05 BruceK BruceK (~Java@[death to spam].pub-net-3.bradleyarant.com) has quit IRC [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:09:15 serenade` Ben_Hijink, is there a newsletter for TSN?
19:09:43 BruceK BruceK (~Java@[death to spam].pub-net-3.bradleyarant.com) has joined #immortal
19:09:54 Ben_Hijink EmilG: She is the first THst I met near Chicago. She started a club with me, but it fizzled. Sometimes she gets depressed and doesn't speak to anyone - not the best trait for an outreach person : ) But she's very smart and a nice person all considered
19:10:11 EmilG John: That's great, but it should be called something else.
19:10:15 BruceK i had a vision when i woke up today... i saw the milky way equating to a toilet bowl
19:10:57 BruceK and time as the moving factor.. probably my worries about heat death
19:11:05 serenade` was that directed to me Ben?
19:11:35 John_Ventureville t
19:11:48 Ben_Hijink serenade: I wouldn't mind one, but I won't start it myself because my time resources are so scarce I need to put them into the bare structure.
19:12:25 mporter another consideration is whether you want to focus on people you can physically meet, or whether you want to make a barebones replicable structure that could be accessed across the globe
19:12:27 BruceK what's your time frame in school.. when do you graduate.. and with what degree?
19:12:42 serenade` Ben_Hijink, alright. we need a TSN 'kit' for TSN chapters
19:13:35 BruceK (my quesion was to ben)
19:13:35 Ben_Hijink Agreed a Kit a kit - wanna help make it? - Also - yes, we need to get local and global, I'm only one person, but I'm trying to do both
19:13:36 serenade` to organize the meetings
19:13:40 serenade` sure!
19:14:08 Infinity don't worry about heat death, it is only an obstacle
19:14:37 Ben_Hijink In 2005 I will get my Bachelors. I may be in the Chicago area for Grad school or somewhere else
19:14:44 BruceK i feel so much better now.. thanks infinity
19:15:02 serenade` Ben_Hijink, I'll receive mine in 2005 as well from Umich
19:15:09 John_Ventureville Ben, what type of degree/career do you plan to go into?
19:15:19 Ben_Hijink I can still pitch in as a Grad student, but someone else will need to be leading the TSN - I HOPE : )
19:15:27 serenade`
19:15:49 serenade` we'll hand the reigns over every so oftne
19:16:02 BruceK ben you mind if i ask you a few q's about your ideas on physical immortality?
19:16:18 Ben_Hijink want to work on the development of metabrain growth.I
19:16:26 Ben_Hijink Sure
19:16:44 Eliezer google: metabrain growth
19:16:45 googlebot googling for metabrain growth
19:16:46 googlebot
http://www.bjklein.c...E=&TOPIC_ID=600 19:16:46 BruceK would you agree that death = oblivion?
19:16:59 kami_ kami_ (~yottyj@[death to spam].shemp.cs.plu.edu) has joined #immortal
19:17:06 BruceK heh.. well looky there...
19:17:18 Coyote_gravitylessons death = apperent oblivion
19:17:28 Infinity Lim x->-infinity (x^2)=infinity
19:17:30 Ben_Hijink the phenomenological experience is the absence of experience, yes
19:17:31 EmilG I get "Microsoft JET Database Engine error '80004005' " on that page
19:17:34 Infinity
19:18:05 BruceK and that absense would make living forever a very important goal.. no?
19:18:30 mporter is this a debate about whether life extension is a higher priority than intelligence increase?
19:18:34 EmilG Infinity: What about integral from -infinity to +infinity of e^-(x^2) is the square root of pi? That's one of the most beautiful Secrets of the Universe.
19:19:13 Ben_Hijink extreme life extension with the - at least theoretical possibility of eternal continuance, sure
19:19:38 BruceK thus, i suspect you leave room for such external continuance?
19:19:52 BruceK what some mey liken to a 'soul'
19:19:59 BruceK mey=may
19:20:01 Ben_Hijink Sure
19:20:15 BruceK thus, you may call yourself an agnostic..
19:20:15 serenade` Ben_Hijink, what's your e-mail?
19:20:22 Ben_Hijink But it is a hypothesis that necessarily remains unprovable
19:20:25 Infinity Emil:Interesting
19:20:32 Ben_Hijink ben_hyink9 @ yahoo.com
19:20:52 serenade` k ty
19:21:23 Ben_Hijink Oh I didn't say yes to "soul " in the metaphysical sense -0 sorry
19:21:31 BruceK ok
19:21:51 BruceK so you'
19:22:17 BruceK .. sorry... so you would lean more toward materialism..
19:22:21 Ben_Hijink Labels have limited utility, but negative atheist or agnostic, or naturalist, or secular humanist, or Transhumanist all would define me
19:23:03 BruceK i agree..
19:23:24 BruceK labels are not always helpful.. they need defining.. and that sucks..
19:23:26 Ben_Hijink naturalism - there may be many phenomena we don't yet know of, but materialism appears sufficient to explain consiousness - in the Dennet sense
19:24:07 Coyote_gravitylessons I think another label problem is the natural/supernatural material/spiritual
19:24:10 Ben_Hijink Dennet, Daniel Dennent thankya marm
19:24:33 EmilG Can science explain how Lucky Charms are magically delicious? Huh? Huh?
19:24:48 Coyote_gravitylessons what is typicly held as so called supernatural my just be an itteration of rar material phenomina
19:24:51 Infinity my take on life extention is that there is no evidence for continuity of consciousness after death, so to play it safe, lifespan should be extended until evidence of consciousness existing after death can be found. Even then, there would have to be evidence that the consciousness existing after death would have to be an improved state.
19:24:55 BruceK so... let's say that you're hit by lightning and killed tommorow.. and let's say you're burried in the dirt.. no cryonics.. are you gone for sure.. forever?
19:25:08 Ben_Hijink noxious cleaning agents unscrupulous business peoplke push on kids
19:25:22 serenade` has anyone been under general anesthesia?
19:25:24 serenade` kinda scary
19:25:34 Coyote_gravitylessons ser: I am right now
19:25:43 serenade` lol
19:26:10 Infinity bruce: there is no evidence to suggest otherwise
19:26:19 Ben_Hijink agreed
19:26:27 BruceK * BruceK nods
19:26:53 Coyote_gravitylessons Bruce: certainly the "you" that we all know and understand will surely not survive
19:26:59 BruceK it's nice to see we agree on this important point
19:27:39 Coyote_gravitylessons and that version of me/you holds great value
19:27:43 BruceK Coyote, i suspect you're implying some sort of alternative existance..
19:28:08 Coyote_gravitylessons I do think it is possible, however I dont let that change my value investment in the known
19:28:21 Ben_Hijink I don't assert the non-existance of God as popularly and philosophically understood because I lack omniscience. I also lack belief in such a being, and the burden of proof is on the believer to convince me otherwise + negative atheism - Michael Martin - Atheism: A Philosophical Justification
19:28:25 Coyote_gravitylessons bird in the hand so to speak
19:28:57 BruceK i'm interested in how many athiest can accpet death
19:28:57 Infinity I wish that there was a safety net that would preserve me if I died, but wishing doesn't make something true.
