17 replies to this topic

[StrangeAeons]

Previously I've posted on these boards regarding nootropics and dealing with depression and personality disorders. A few days ago I finally revealed an elaborate theory to my psychologist about how there was an entity inside of my consciousness that seemed to sabotage most everything I did; including subtle manipulation of the mental health professionals, which is part of why I've been diagnosed with so many different things at different times (OCD, depression, anxiety, ADHD, schizotypal personality disorder, Asperger's syndrome, but notably never psychosis).
Essentially what he told me is that I've really been dealing with paranoid psychosis, but it's been doing a really good job of covering its tracks until now.
Given all of this, I have two concerns regarding supplementation:
1) what supplements are likely to help given my condition, and which ones are more likely to exacerbate symptoms (dopamine agonists are a big no no for me because of this).
2) Given my psychiatrist's likely course of action, I am very afraid of the side effects of any antipsychotic drugs he may prescribe; between the extrapyramidal effects more likely in the typical antipsychotics, and the diabetic issues with the atypicals, I want to have some sort of counterbalance to the negatives that won't compromise the drugs' main effects. As of yet I don't know what the doc intends to give me specifically, though he's voiced the desire to use invega and abilify before.

For reference: I'm 22 years old and healthy (with recent blood work to prove it), and currently take an Omega 3-6-9 complex, Soy Lechitin, and a few noots.

edit: the doc suggested invega as one option, not aricept (which is an AChE for Alzheimer's... oops)

Edited by zoolander, 30 January 2008 - 09:22 AM.

[stuartes]

I am interested in this thread. I am 62 and have never suffered from any type of mental illness. To the contrary I have been remarkable stable. I have been involved with the entire Life Extension concept for over 10 years primarily with hormones and other supplements. Two years ago I was on a cocktail of Oxiracetam, Aniracetam, Choline & Deprenyl. While in a very sensitive mood I opened up a discussion with my wife about unresolved issues in our past that involved jealousy. My wife feeling enough time had passed was "totally honest" which proved to be a disaster for which I never recovered. It seems this cocktail opened some part of my brain which allowed this information to burn itself into my psyche and can not be removed. Three different therapists, meditation, every supplement known and still it is as fresh today as the day I got the truth. Any thoughts on solutions?

[unbreakable]

Maybe this helps a little bit (from Swedish.org)

Schizophrenia

Principal Proposed Natural Treatments
• Glycine
Other Proposed Natural Treatments
• Coenzyme Q10(CoQ10); Creatine; DHEA; D-Serine; Fish Oil(and Its Constituents) ; ; Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA)Folate; Gingko; Melatonin; Milk Thistle; rTMS; Vitamin B3(Niacin); Vitamin B6; Vitamin C; Several Natural Treatments for Tardive Dyskinesia
Herbs and Supplements to Avoid
• Chromium Picolinate; Dong Quai; Kava; Phenylalanine; St. John’s Wort; Yohimbe

Page Navigation
Principal Proposed Natural Treatments
Other Proposed Natural Treatments
Herbs and Supplements to Avoid
References


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Schizophrenia is a chronic, severe, disabling brain disease. People with schizophrenia often suffer terrifying symptoms such as hearing internal voices not heard by others, or believing that other people are reading their minds, controlling their thoughts, or plotting to harm them. These symptoms may leave them fearful and withdrawn. Their speech and behavior can be so disorganized that they may be incomprehensible or frightening to others. Schizophrenia increases a person’s risk of suicide, self-mutilation, substance abuse, and other social problems such as unemployment, homelessness, and incarceration.

Schizophrenia is found all over the world. The severity of the symptoms and the long-lasting, chronic pattern of schizophrenia often cause a high degree of disability. Approximately 1% of the population develops schizophrenia during their lifetime; more than 2 million Americans suffer from the illness in a given year. Although schizophrenia affects men and women with equal frequency, the disorder often appears earlier in men. Men are usually affected in their late teens or early twenties, while women are generally affected in their twenties to early thirties.

Researchers aren’t sure what causes schizophrenia. Problems with brain structure and chemistry are thought to play a role. There appears to be a strong genetic component to schizophrenia, but some researchers believe that environmental factors may contribute. They theorize that a viral infection in infancy and/or extreme stress may trigger schizophrenia in people who are predisposed to it.

Conventional drug treatment for schizophrenia is moderately effective. While it seldom produces a true cure, it can enable a person with schizophrenia to function in society.


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Principal Proposed Natural Treatments
Untreated schizophrenia is a very dangerous disease for which there is effective treatment, and for this reason it is not ethical to perform studies that compare a hypothetical new treatment against placebo. Therefore, studies of natural treatments for schizophrenia have looked at their potential benefit for enhancing the effects of standard treatment (or minimizing its side effects). No natural treatments have been studied as sole therapy for schizophrenia.

Glycine
Up until recently, all common medications used for schizophrenia fell into a class called phenothiazines. These drugs are most effective for the "positive" symptoms of schizophrenia, such as hallucinations and delusions. (Such symptoms are called "positive" because they indicate the presence of abnormal mental functions, rather than the absence of normal mental functions.) In general, however, these medications are less helpful for the "negative" symptoms of schizophrenia, such as apathy, depression, and social withdrawal.

The supplement glycine might be of benefit here. A clinical trial enrolled 22 participants who continued to experience negative symptoms of schizophrenia despite standard therapy.1 In this placebo-controlled, double-blind crossover study, volunteers were randomly assigned to receive either 0.8 g of glycine per kg of body weight (about 60 g per day) or placebo for 6 weeks, along with their regular medications. The groups were then switched after a 2-week "wash-out" period during which they all received placebo.

Significant improvements (about 30%) in symptoms such as depression and apathy were seen with glycine when compared to placebo. Additionally, glycine appeared to reduce some of the side effects caused by the prescription drugs. Furthermore, the benefits apparently continued for another 8 weeks after the glycine was discontinued.

No changes were seen in positive symptoms (for instance, hallucinations), but it isn’t possible to tell whether that is because these symptoms were already being controlled by prescription medications or whether glycine simply has no effect on that aspect of schizophrenia.

Four other small double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trials of glycine together with standard drugs for schizophrenia (including the newer drugs olanzapine and risperidone) also found it to be helpful for negative symptoms.1–4

However, one small double-blind, placebo-controlled trial (19 participants) suggests that adding glycine to the drug clozapine may not be a good idea.5 In this study, glycine was found to reduce the benefits of clozapine without helping to relieve the participants' negative symptoms. Lack of benefit, although no actual harm, was seen in two other double-blind, placebo-controlled trials of glycine and clozapine.6,37 Another recent study not specifically limited to clozapine also failed to find benefit with glycine.43

Curiously, a natural substance (sarcosine) that blocks the action of glycine has also shown promise for schizophrenia.34

For more information, including dosage and safety issues, see the full Glycine article.


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Other Proposed Natural Treatments
Numerous other natural therapies have shown promise for aiding various aspects of treatment for schizophrenia, but in most cases the current supporting evidence is weak at best.

Enhancing Drug Action
For a number of theoretical reasons, it has been suggested that fish oil and its constituents (especially a slightly modified constituent called ethyl-EPA) might enhance the effectiveness of standard drugs used for schizophrenia; however, current evidence for benefit remains incomplete and inconsistent.35,42

A small 6-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled study evaluated the potential effectiveness of the supplement DHEA taken at a dose of 100 mg daily for enhancing the effectiveness of drug treatment for schizophrenia.33 The results indicated that use of DHEA led to improvement in various symptoms, especially negative symptoms (see discussion of glycine, above, for definition). However, in another double-blind, placebo-controlled study, use of DHEA provided minimal benefits if any.40

Preliminary evidence suggests that ginkgo7,8 and the amino acid D-serine 9 may also enhance the effectiveness of various anti-psychotic drugs.

Tardive Dyskinesia
Tardive dyskinesia (TD) is a potentially permanent side effect of drugs used to control schizophrenia and other psychoses. This late-developing (tardy, or tardive) complication consists of annoying, mostly uncontrollable movements (dyskinesias). Typical symptoms include repetitive sucking or blinking, slow twisting of the hands, or other movements of the face and limbs. TD can cause tremendous social embarrassment to particularly vulnerable people.

Several natural treatments have shown promise for preventing or treating TD. For more information, see the Tardive Dyskinesia article.

Other Drug Side Effects
Vitamin B6 might also reduce symptoms of akathesia, a type of restlessness associated with phenothiazine anti-psychotics.38

One small double-blind study found that use of DHEA reduced the Parkinson-like movement disorders that may occur in people taking phenothiazine drugs.39

According to studies performed in China, the herb ginkgo may reduce various side effects caused by drugs used to treat schizophrenia.7,13

Preliminary studies suggest that phenothiazine drugs might deplete the body of coenzyme Q10(CoQ10).13,14 While there is as yet no evidence that taking CoQ 10 supplements provides any specific benefit for people using phenothiazines, supplementing with CoQ 10 might be a good idea on general principles.

The herb milk thistle might protect against the liver toxicity sometimes caused by phenothiazine drugs.15

Other Options
Preliminary evidence suggests that a special form of magnet therapy called rTMS (repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation) may be useful for schizophrenia.16,17 However, not all studies have found benefits above the placebo effect,36 and in any case rTMS is not yet available outside a research setting.

A study of 19 people with schizophrenia who had disturbed sleep patterns found that 2 mg of controlled-release melatonin improved sleep.18

One small study failed to find the supplement creatine helpful for schizophrenia.41

High doses of various vitamins, including vitamin A, vitamin B1, vitamin B3(niacin), vitamin B6, vitamin B12, vitamin E, folate, and vitamin C, have been suggested for the treatment of schizophrenia, but the evidence that they offer any real benefit remains incomplete and contradictory at best.19–26


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Herbs and Supplements to Avoid
There are some indications that using the supplement phenylalanine while taking antipsychotic drugs might increase the risk of developing tardive dyskinesia.27,28

Antipsychotic drugs can cause dystonic reactions—sudden intense movements, and prolonged muscle contraction of the neck and eyes. There is some evidence that the herb kava can increase the risk or severity of this side effect.29

Phenothiazine drugs can cause increased sensitivity to the sun. Various herbs, including St. John's wort and dong quai, can also cause this problem. Combined treatment with herb and drug might increase the risk further.

St. John’s wort might also interact adversely with the newer antipsychotic drugs in the clozapine family. If you take one of these drugs and then start taking St. John’s wort, your blood levels of the drug may fall. However, if you are already taking both the herb and the drug, and then you stop St. John’s wort, the level of drug in your body could reach the toxic point.

The supplement chromium is often sold in the form chromium picolinate. Because picolinate can alter levels of various neurotransmitters (substances that the brain uses to function), there are theoretical concerns that it could cause problems for people with schizophrenia.30,31

The herb yohimbe is relatively toxic and can cause problems if used incorrectly. Phenothiazine medications may increase the risk of this toxicity.32

Edited by unbreakable, 11 January 2008 - 12:15 AM.

[graatch]

Unfortunately, the side effects of neuroleptics are not overestimated; they can indeed be very problematic and impairing, though they can surely be helpful, especially in positive schizophrenia. As opposed to manics, in which I definitely support the preferential use of the more classic mood stabilizer/anticonvulsants, though neuroleptics are useful for stopping an ongoing mania (rather than control over time). But then, so are benzos ...

I'm going to post something from a user on another forum that I think you'll find helpful. In my personal experience, for some of the possibly schizotypal aspects of my personality it has been extraordinarily helpful over time, but mine is a scattered report, unlike the research:

DHEA in treatment of negative symptoms of schizophrenia, Social aviodance as well?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12578430 <-- reverses acute symptoms
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum <-- over 6 weeks, reverses both positive/negative symptoms
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum <-- long-term use of sigma-1 agonists (including DHEA) reverses neuroplasticity of animal model of schizophrenia

Now keep in mind, the "negative" symptoms are more common than you'd think, and it wasn't until the DSM-IV-TR they broke out Avoidant Personality Disorder from the schizophrenia family, which shares many aspects of the negative symptomatology (to lesser degrees).

The sigma-1 agonism, long-term, reversed neuroplastic changes that inhibited exploratory/novelty-seeking behavior and reduced object recognition.

http://www.mindandmu...showtopic=28485

Keep posting if you can. This is an extremely interesting condition -- a statement which does not really relate my intense affinity for many aspects of the topic. Have you ever experienced hypomania? Do you consider yourself a creative personality? So, was the entity considered (in your structuring) as being an autonomous, external malevolent force, like a creature, or ...? You don't have to answer that if you don't want -- forgive me if it was a trigger.

Edited by graatch, 11 January 2008 - 03:09 AM.

[StrangeAeons]

Keep posting if you can. This is an extremely interesting condition -- a statement which does not really relate my intense affinity for many aspects of the topic. Have you ever experienced hypomania? Do you consider yourself a creative personality? So, was the entity considered (in your structuring) as being an autonomous, external malevolent force, like a creature, or ...? You don't have to answer that if you don't want -- forgive me if it was a trigger.

By all means I am used to discussing this matter. It is very difficult to explain my symptamology, as in retrospect it appears that I have been afflicted my entire life. I episodically become somewhat hypomanic in social settings, though as often as not it feels like a strain against my character instead of euphoric. I definitely would consider myself a creative personality, though it was repressed until the past few years of my becoming more socially integrated; notably, before then I resembled the avoidant personality symptomatically. It is very difficult to pinpoint what the entity feels like; at a young age I had abnormal cognition and a high IQ (recently tested as a 144 on the most conservative scale, with no prominent cognitive strengths/weaknesses). I could say that all of my life I had a notion that I was distinct from other people, and arguably an intrinsic fear of them (my current psychiatrist's intuitive diagnosis was schizotypal personality). I was teased relentlessly by my classmates, and had trouble become socially integrated. I would generally go off into my own place and formulate my own strange theories about reality, and felt intuitively philosophical from at least age 10. I also had a terrible fear of being alone at times; in second grade, I kept on asking to go to the bathroom, but every time I went there was nobody there, so I left the bathroom in fear. After four or five attempts to go to the bathroom I lost control of my bladder and pissed my pants in the desk in front of everybody. Until my mid teens, I couldn't fall asleep unless there was somebody awake in the room; occassionally this fear still comes to me and I feel the irrepressible need to turn on a light. I believe perhaps some component of my bizarre internal monologue wants me to suffer by my never achieving anything with my intellect and never having a girl to love; and so in the domains of academia and women especially, I feel a total avolition. Eventually this theory became the notion of a "saboteur" or "antagonist", a voice in my mind like any other cognition, but with malevolent intent, be it overt or subtle; for instance, sometimes it forces thoughts of incest into my mind around family members... though I have no desire to act upon such cognition, it is very uncomfortable and I strain to shut it out. I could go on for a while explaining the odds and ends of it, but I think those are the highlights of what you were asking for.

And thanks for the DHEA recommendation, I'm really impressed with the idea; but there is a lot of controversy around the substance, so I'll mention the idea to my psychiatrist first; he may also tell me to can the noots for now, I'm not sure.

Edited by PetaKiaRose, 11 January 2008 - 04:07 AM.

[versagus]

Keep posting if you can. This is an extremely interesting condition -- a statement which does not really relate my intense affinity for many aspects of the topic. Have you ever experienced hypomania? Do you consider yourself a creative personality? So, was the entity considered (in your structuring) as being an autonomous, external malevolent force, like a creature, or ...? You don't have to answer that if you don't want -- forgive me if it was a trigger.

By all means I am used to discussing this matter. It is very difficult to explain my symptamology, as in retrospect it appears that I have been afflicted my entire life. I episodically become somewhat hypomanic in social settings, though as often as not it feels like a strain against my character instead of euphoric. I definitely would consider myself a creative personality, though it was repressed until the past few years of my becoming more socially integrated; notably, before then I resembled the avoidant personality symptomatically. It is very difficult to pinpoint what the entity feels like; at a young age I had abnormal cognition and a high IQ (recently tested as a 144 on the most conservative scale, with no prominent cognitive strengths/weaknesses). I could say that all of my life I had a notion that I was distinct from other people, and arguably an intrinsic fear of them (my current psychiatrist's intuitive diagnosis was schizotypal personality). I was teased relentlessly by my classmates, and had trouble become socially integrated. I would generally go off into my own place and formulate my own strange theories about reality, and felt intuitively philosophical from at least age 10. I also had a terrible fear of being alone at times; in second grade, I kept on asking to go to the bathroom, but every time I went there was nobody there, so I left the bathroom in fear. After four or five attempts to go to the bathroom I lost control of my bladder and pissed my pants in the desk in front of everybody. Until my mid teens, I couldn't fall asleep unless there was somebody awake in the room; occassionally this fear still comes to me and I feel the irrepressible need to turn on a light. I believe perhaps some component of my bizarre internal monologue wants me to suffer by my never achieving anything with my intellect and never having a girl to love; and so in the domains of academia and women especially, I feel a total avolition. Eventually this theory became the notion of a "saboteur" or "antagonist", a voice in my mind like any other cognition, but with malevolent intent, be it overt or subtle; for instance, sometimes it forces thoughts of incest into my mind around family members... though I have no desire to act upon such cognition, it is very uncomfortable and I strain to shut it out. I could go on for a while explaining the odds and ends of it, but I think those are the highlights of what you were asking for.

And thanks for the DHEA recommendation, I'm really impressed with the idea; but there is a lot of controversy around the substance, so I'll mention the idea to my psychiatrist first; he may also tell me to can the noots for now, I'm not sure.

Don't buy into anti-psychotics. I took them for several weeks and the side-effects were intolerable. In addition the psychosis (which is no gone) that I experienced was due to low-dopamine, therefore the drugs they were giving me were excerbating the problem. They can cut up to 25 years off your life. Find yourself a high quality, orthomolecular psychiatrist in your area whos familiar with abram hoffer and Carl C. Pfieffer.

Books you should read:

Natural Healing for schizophrenia
Depression-free naturally.

Tests you should consider:

Histamine levels (below 20 ng low, above 70ng high)
absolute basophil count (determine low or high histamine) Above 50 high.
Serum Catecholimines (Too see if its high or low.)
Test for kryptopyroles
Heavy metals. (serum zinc and copper too)

When you find out the biological cause of your symptoms (your bio-type) it will take alot of the uncertainty out of your situation, and allow you to use the proper supplements without harming yourself.

Anyways, read those books first and then go from there.

You sound high histamine or pyroluric (or both though I'm no doctor), It would pay for you to find out your serum catecholimines and pyroluria testing before you even consider anti-psychotics which would cause the high histamine individual (or pyroluric do to possible low-dopamine levels) a serious worsening of his condition as dopamine is depleted by those drugs.

Best of luck,

Versagus.

Edited by versagus, 24 January 2008 - 09:57 PM.

[tham]

Zinc deficiency and copper accumulation are implicated here .

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

[Mixter]

Interesting thread, esp. as this is clearly stated about 'supplements' in addition to standard treatment.
I've found the disease processes of psychosis and related quite interesting, based on that, my
additional ideas, but really just personal ideas, not with a background/proof, would be:

- Testing and balancing levels of _all_ major hormones

- Stabilizing neuronal cell membranes by lecithin, omega-3 and other precursors to phospholipids
(Epilepsy & Bipolar disorder is proven, psychotic diseases are AFAIK suspected to be associated
with electrical instability at the neuronal membranes. Hence, stabilizing these membranes not only short-term
by medication, but long term, by improving their quality with phospholipids and other neuronutrients is crucial.)

- Testing for inflammatory factors, such as CRP (I'd do it from spinal fluid, but thats just my crazy idea)
(Background: some psychologists view generic symptoms of psychosis as 'fever of the brain',
i.e. a generic stress symptom, and a brain under stress is likely to be in pro-inflammatory stage)

- Preventing against excitotoxicity from neuroleptica etc. (B12, gaba, selenium, others...
no idea whether adjuvant protective nootropics are good or risky, these better not without physician cooperation)

- Keeping heavy things like neuroleptics as low as possible, as high as necessary

- Only adjuvant, never to replace the standard therapy, never risk a relapse...

[StrangeAeons]

thanks to all for your suggestions, but it turns out I was only in a "peri-psychotic" state when I let this theory get a hold of me; it is not anything I particularly subscribe to anymore, and I have come to accept my psychiatrist's initial diagnosis of schizotypal personality disorder, which I severely doubt supplementation can do much for. I've actually found supplements to be ultimately counterproductive because of the false hope I tend to ascribe to them and the subsequent letdown or worse, negative effects. Still, I think people should keep posting on this thread because it is an issue I think should be addressed and that other people who are truly psychotic might benefit from. Personally I don't subscribe to the whole antipsychiatry perspective, but I would like to hear people's thoughts nonetheless.

[zoolander]

The title of this thread scares the freakin' shite out of me. Before recommending what someone should or could possibly take to help alleviate anything that resembles psychosis I ask that people consider that recommending substances that work to alter one's neurochemistry has the potential to worsen the situation.

The best recommendation that I can give is to include dietary items that might be used to maintain and not fix normal healthy mental states. i.e lipids for cell membrane integrity, adequate CHO for glucose supply to the brain and so on.

[StrangeAeons]

duly noted zoolander, and I think that your concern is valid; I do not want people to start becoming deluded about what supplementation can do for them... especially since this is a demographic prone to delusion as is. I've had a few minor revelations about the matter, and I think that this thread should continue more in the vein of palliative measures to complement treatment rather than alternatives to treatment. Perhaps if you or some other empowered member could change the title of the thread to reflect that, it would be helpful in alleviating your fears [tung] as well as steering conversation in a more productive direction.

[OneScrewLoose]

duly noted zoolander, and I think that your concern is valid; I do not want people to start becoming deluded about what supplementation can do for them... especially since this is a demographic prone to delusion as is. I've had a few minor revelations about the matter, and I think that this thread should continue more in the vein of palliative measures to complement treatment rather than alternatives to treatment. Perhaps if you or some other empowered member could change the title of the thread to reflect that, it would be helpful in alleviating your fears [tung] as well as steering conversation in a more productive direction.

What your talking about Peta really resonates with me. I've had a lot of these experiences through my life. When I was 6-10 years old I had to have my mom sleep in my room every night to go to bed. Sometimes after she left I would wake up and call her back. I'm still afraid of the dark to this day...I still have a lot of trouble dealing with people and being alone. For a while I thought these fears were gone (people, dark), but thanks to constant meditation I learned that I just supressed them and never dealt with them...before I started meditating I used to have insomnia so bad I'd stay up 30-40 hours twice a week. Insomnia is still there but usually maxes out at 20 hours now. Unblocking the fears and facing them has helped some...

My sister is schizophrenic btw...keep posting guys. Also, should I try DHEA? I did a while back, but I recently found out I have celiac disease so it might not have been getting aborbed at the time (I was really sick and in pain all the time too).

[krillin]

Also, should I try DHEA? I did a while back, but I recently found out I have celiac disease so it might not have been getting aborbed at the time (I was really sick and in pain all the time too).

If you do, use a transdermal 7-keto DHEA like Dermabolics.

[graatch]

If you do, use a transdermal 7-keto DHEA like Dermabolics.

Unless the hormonal stuff IS what gives those very nice improvements in the abtracts posted above.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mediation of cortisol is part of it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the neuroprotective effect of estrogen might be availing some positive effect as well.

[Miracle]

You need to stop doing Drugs, (Illegal) if you have already stopped than good, and what you need to do is Naturally get "Normal" again, do some hypnosis, and meditation, dont do drugs over pre existing drugs that will just make it worse, stop with all drugs for atleast a year and naturally get healthy and youll see that entity will be gone, i know exactly what your talking about though.

[tham]

Here's a somewhat similar post sometime ago.


http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=10392

Edited by tham, 24 February 2008 - 03:47 PM.

[krillin]

If you do, use a transdermal 7-keto DHEA like Dermabolics.

Unless the hormonal stuff IS what gives those very nice improvements in the abtracts posted above.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mediation of cortisol is part of it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the neuroprotective effect of estrogen might be availing some positive effect as well.

You have a valid point. 7-keto does, though, have neurological effects in addition to its cortisol antagonism. For my first few days it felt like a non-brain frying version of Cymbalta, so it should have the serotonin and noradrenaline effects of DHEA mentioned in PMID: 12420152. It also eliminated the tonic muscle tension I get from allergies for several months. My proposed mechanism is 1) allergic reaction stimulates trigeminal nerve (PMID: 15976993), 2) trigeminal nerve spews neuropeptides that increase cholinergic activity. DHEA and 7-keto both likely inhibit this trigeminal response. DHEA decreases the response to capsaicin (PMID: 15201344), and depleting neuropeptides with nasal capsaicin gave a relaxation effect similar to 7-keto for a few months.

[versagus]

I completely agree. Taking any supplement without the concent of a medical professional is dangerous especially if your mental/physical health is poor. I'm not suggesting that you put anything into your body. Find out what it is that is imbalanced in your system. Anti-psychotics, and mainstream medicine will not cure your biological problem they will merely mask it at best. Learning about your body can be a worthwhile expense in time and money. By no means should you attempt to go alternative if your symptoms are severe because it can take along time to see if its working, or whethor it is not. First stablize on traditional therapies, then look into finding the biological cause of your problem, via the testing I recommended. Only then should you even consider adding on supplements to your mainstream regimen with the consent of a orthomolecular physican who specializes in treating such ailments.

Taking supplements blindly can be HAZOURDOUS to your health.