CHAT ARCHIVE:
18:01:28 BruceK * BruceK Official Chat Starts Now
18:01:32 Mermaid haploid: i respect that..
18:01:41 Mermaid Lucifer: life is not a cake
18:02:02 Natasha Natasha (~Natasha@[death to
18:02:18 kevin ReHello Natasha..
18:02:19 Natasha Hello everyone !
18:02:24 serenade` hi Natasha!
18:02:27 nanotechking hello!!!
18:02:30 Mermaid wb Natasha
18:02:35 Eliezer * Eliezer choruses, "Hello, Natasha!"
18:02:35 haploid I intend to rule the world with sharks with frickin laserbeams attached to their heads. I wouldn't be much of an evil genius if I ddidn't also aspire to live forever, would I ?
18:02:49 BruceK TOPIC: Extropy President, Natasha Vita-More - Vita-More, cultural critic, will join ImmInst members to discuss ideas of extropy, the pioneering transhumanist philosophy, and an extropic vision of the future
18:03:12 Natasha Wait ... let me put my glasses on so I can see the future :-)
18:03:33 Natasha There it is. Yes.
18:03:35 nanotechking future is open...
18:03:50 Natasha We are coming in for a landing -10 and counting
18:04:07 Rotaerk * Rotaerk moves out of the way.
18:04:32 Lucifer Any ground rules for think chat, BJK?
18:04:41 Lucifer this chat
18:05:00 BruceK Heh.. no lazer sugery for the eyes, Natasha?
18:05:10 Natasha What is on everyone's minds this evening? Spam, AI, Singularity, Stock market, education, arts and culture?
18:05:28 haploid mmmm singularity =)
18:05:28 BruceK ah.. let's let Natasha feel free to take this where she wishes.. if that's ok?
18:05:30 Natasha I can't read without glasses and this type of surgery is not available yet.
18:05:55 Natasha Okay, Let's discuss our transhumanist culture. Where are we today? Do you think we are getting anywhere, or is it same old sameold?
18:06:04 caliban_away caliban_away is now known as caliban
18:06:29 celindra I don't see any real innovations in Transumanism
18:06:33 BruceK I think a general overview of the numbers.. as in memberships ets..
18:06:38 BruceK would be helpful..
18:06:49 nanotechking i think more people should be involved...
18:07:12 haploid Natasha, relative to what ?
18:07:25 haploid transhumanism circa 1995 ?
18:07:27 kevin can we say that judging by the amount of media the sciences are getting that we are nearing an 'awakening' of the public consciousness to transhumanism possibilities?
18:07:28 haploid 1990 ?
18:07:29 Lazlo A lot of cultural identification is going on as people globally are becoming aware of new options & issues
18:07:33 haploid 1620 ?
18:08:06 haploid kevin: no.
18:08:17 Natasha Good answers. I agree. we need more people, not more attempts at reinventing the wheel. (Hapoloid - relative to the goals we had set out to accomplish over the years and if we have made any headway. I agree that in order to snowball, we need larger numbers of people involved.
18:08:32 kevin hmm.... I'm not so sure.. at least on the health care and medical side of research..
18:09:06 simdizzy what about the future of sex?
18:09:15 Lucifer It would be interesting to see how the number of google hits on keywords such as extropy and transhumanism has changed over the last few years
18:09:22 Lazlo Aren't we assuming we know clearly what is understood by Transhumanism or isn't it too an idea that is evolving?
18:09:34 haploid There has been a recent resurgence of nationalism and fundamentalism in the world. Interest in triviality has skyrocketed.
18:09:43 kevin I think before 'transhumanism' becomes popular.. people need to feel there is an actual 'way out' of their biology.
18:10:18 kevin haploid: that in itself may be an indication of people gathering for the coming storm..
18:10:21 simdizzy Natasha, do you think there will be more sex as we approach the singularity :0()
18:10:23 Natasha Biotechnology has been advancing by leaps and bounds. Communicating techologoy is ready to make new headway with cordless. Computing power keeps growing as things get smaller. Re Lazlo - I should hope by now we understand what transhumanism means. The hits on extropy and transhumanism keeps expanding exponentially.
18:11:22 Natasha Perhaps the nationalism and fundalism is due to the wide spread of a "worry" factor, as presented overtly by the press and luddites.
18:11:27 Lucifer Are there any important differences between extropy and transhumanism?
18:11:37 Lazlo True except we have a long way to go and much will change with ever major technological success we incorporate intot eh meme
18:11:54 haploid The only bright spot I have seen this year is the more-than-I-espected interest in darpa's desert race.
18:11:57 simdizzy yes memetic evolution is very important
18:12:01 haploid er expected
18:12:01 Natasha Extropy is a philosophy of transhumanism. I don't see any difference, other than one is a codified philosophy.
18:12:45 Natasha Important differences between extropy and transhumanism? Yes. All extropic thinkers are transhumanists. Not all transhumanists agree to the principles of the Extropy philosophy.
18:12:48 kevin I think the electrical blowouts across the world were a HUGE wakeup call..
18:13:01 Natasha Darpa is very timely.
18:13:09 haploid wakeup call to what ?
18:13:10 Eliezer I'd call Extropy the leading form of name-brand transhumanism. "Transhumanism" as such can be pretty vague. Extropy's a very central and prototypical form of transhumanism, but like Natasha says, it's codified.
18:13:42 Natasha Agreed about the blackouts.
18:14:04 Lucifer Are there any other name-brand flavors of transhumanism?
18:14:05 haploid I see no connection betweeen power outages and transhumanism.
18:14:14 Natasha Wakeup call about being co-dependent.
18:14:30 simdizzy independence is pretty interesting
18:14:37 Natasha Name brand flavors? What do you mean (makes me hungry - and I have a pumpkin pie in the oven.)
18:14:47 nanotechking people should put more pressure and become more active about their future...
18:14:47 kevin look to the future for solutions of energy.. there are many 'strangleholds' on our society and one is our wasteful and huge dependence on current energy paradigms.. when that shifts.. there will be an accompanying shift towards changing other 'sacred cows'
18:15:10 BruceK Heh, do you not practice low carb diet Natasha?
18:15:26 Eliezer Actually, I'd call the blackouts a wakeup call on the dangers of governmental ignorance. Anyone read the article about how the blackouts were produced by regulatory innovations that completely ignored the physics of the underlying grid?
18:15:55 Natasha I don't practice any diet other than eating lots of fish/chicken vegetables and drinking water. I eat lots of chocklate and drink martinis.
18:16:07 nanotechking Natasha which supplements you use?
18:16:12 kevin eli: yup... the blackouts illustrate many things that need to be identified and checked out on different levels..
18:16:26 Lucifer Natasha, do you self-identify with immortalists?
18:16:35 Natasha Yes. The grid that our energy system is based on causes us to be co-dependent.
18:17:18 simdizzy we can eventually become self-sufficient individuals
18:17:24 Natasha Supplements? I have designer vitamins produced by Kronos Clinic in Scottsdale, Arizona. These vitamins are designed specifically for my body/chemistry. I had taken HRT, but I stopped cold turkey. I'm okay (I think :-))
18:17:40 haploid cloning, genetic therapy, and even nanotech is under increasing fire from the luddites and religious nuts. The only viable pathway in my mind for extropy is rapid automation implemetation driven by naive AGI, to serve as a basis for human-level FAI development.
18:17:41 kevin Nat, do you think that if our homes became capable of generating our own power that people might think they were adding instead of sucking the life out of society?
18:18:04 haploid Of course that won't last long.
18:18:06 Natasha I identify with people who think death is a insult to humanity.
18:18:21 haploid Then the unions will begin attacking automation.
18:18:38 BruceK Taking the immortalist question a bit futher.. do you think that there's nothing after death?
18:19:36 Natasha Our homes means our environments - inside an edifice and outside an edifice. My body is my home and my consciousness if my home. Probably when we become friendly ais we can generate our own energy :-)
18:19:36 haploid After that, it's only a small step to imagine massive violent backlash. I intend no offense, but I honestly believe Eliezer will at some point in time be marked ffor death.
18:19:39 haploid er for
18:19:59 haploid And that concludes the diatribe of the token pessimist.
18:20:00 simdizzy dont give me that BS haploid
18:20:12 kevin hap: gotta have at least one..
18:20:34 haploid sim?
18:20:48 Natasha I'm not sure what happens after death, that is - other than the brain ceasing to function and the blood ceasing to be pumped through the body. I am sure that there is some sort of physics issue that occurs causing certain reactions from the particles in our bodies and brain waves.
18:21:23 simdizzy im sorry hap:
dont give me that BS haploid
18:21:34 simdizzy but you deserved it
18:21:47 simdizzy fearmongering is an insult
18:21:52 Ge after death what is the importance of what happens in our bodies?
18:21:52 John_Ventureville what b.s.?
18:22:06 simdizzy death b.s.
18:22:11 simdizzy fear b.s.
18:22:31 nanotechking death increase entropy
18:22:36 Natasha Does anyone have a suggestion about how to get people to think more extropically?
18:23:08 BruceK show them that death = oblivion heh
18:23:11 John_Ventureville throw great dinner parties and invite the enlightened and the not so enlightened who you care about
18:23:12 kevin Nat: love for their families and beating the crap out of ageing..
18:23:14 Guest Why do you say this haploid? <haploid>but I honestly believe Eliezer will at some point in time be marked ffor death.
18:23:42 Ge we are all marked for death, it's called "genes"
18:24:04 Rotaerk he's refering to marked for death by society...
18:24:16 kevin If we can crack the 'apathy nut of ageing' ..
18:24:22 kevin People would actually HOPE
18:24:36 haploid Guest: IMO, Eliezer( and like-intentioned individuals )will be responsibble for the most dramatic alteration of our reality.
18:24:41 simdizzy memes win over genes, and if memes say we dont die, then we dont die
18:24:43 Natasha By the way, the extropy-chat is finally working ...
18:24:44 Eliezer * Eliezer returns from AFK
18:24:54 haploid And a lot of people will see it coming, and attempt to, uhm, "regulate" it.
18:25:09 nanotechking genes are opposite to our freedom and capabilities life the way we know it is unfair
18:25:28 haploid I would actually be happy seeing a wealthy benefactor take Eliezer "underground" for his research.
18:25:38 Ge nano, of course. nature is unfair. nature is a bitch.
18:25:39 Eliezer I'd like to repeat my usual request that people shut up about the question of "What if X gets assassinated?", and specifically that they not mention me as the prototypical example.
18:25:45 kevin haploid: there will be visionaries, and leaders of integrity.. and followers with energy and conviction who actually DO something.
18:26:14 simdizzy agreed
18:26:23 BruceK Natasha, have you seen an increase in membership to Extropy Inst?
18:26:35 Guest What's Eliezer into by the way ?
18:26:37 Ge i am convinced that the major nations will all OPPOSE the movement to immortalism,
18:26:44 Lucifer In order to spread the memes, the ExI has to grow... a lot
18:26:55 Rotaerk Guest: www.singinst.org
18:27:02 Ge because they fear social change,
18:27:17 Coyote and there will be oponents to the visionaries, and leaders of integrity, the statists and controlers, that have a vested intrest in deathism
18:27:21 kevin GE.. of course they will.. it is total transformation to a different structure.. current governments will not survive not the current way politics is done
18:27:23 Natasha Yes, the membership has increased. It goes in spirts. It was slow for a while and then picked up again. Every time a book comes out, it increases, or if a tv show, etc. makes some headway and ExI is mentioned, we get a rush of people to the website. But this is expected.
18:27:47 BruceK Can you tell us about Max's book?
18:27:59 Ge but immortalism will cost trillions. And the trillions are not being spent.
18:28:21 Coyote ge well... its an incremental thing
18:28:22 Natasha Bruce - one thing that will probably be helpful in seeing a wider population is when ExI's book is published. I'm sure some of you on the list would be willing to work with us on it.
18:28:41 Ge nor will they be spent while "society" remains in its current form.
18:28:48 cyborg01 What's the book about?
18:28:54 Coyote wel its is being "spent"
18:28:57 BruceK Natasha, there may be some overlap of help here. .as ImmInst is now working on a collaborative book project.
18:29:09 haploid No. $1B USD + 10 extremely smart individuals + 20 more years of moore's law is all that is required for immortality.
18:29:21 haploid I would definately not say "trillions".
18:29:26 Jonesey agree haploid
18:29:31 Natasha One book that is out right now is Brian Alexander's book _Rapture - A Racous tour of Cloning, Transhumanism and the New Eara of Immortality. It is very good reading.
18:29:35 Coyote haploid: sans powerful opponents
18:29:51 cyborg01 Haploid: I think its not so simple.. you've ignored the experimental side of things
18:29:59 haploid Coyote: part of the $1B could pay lots of armed guards. =)
18:30:03 nanotechking but whats happening outside USA? i think to suceed in immortalism every nation should contribute
18:30:11 Jonesey i think we need more than smart individuals, we need optimism about the conquest of death. there are a lot of smart billionaires who have no idea death can be conquered. if there were any who believed it was feasible they'd commit the needed resources asap
18:30:18 Ge it would cost trillions to go to Mars, we know how to do that, we DON'T know how to immortalise a human being.
18:30:19 Jonesey just out of self interest.
18:30:20 BruceK * BruceK Has read Brian's book and agrees with Natasha
18:30:30 Jonesey we have some good ideas ge
18:30:33 Coyote nope, by the stroke of a pen it could all come to a stop
18:30:38 Mermaid your genes are already immortal
18:30:44 Jonesey i don't think so coyote
18:30:51 Mermaid if you take up breeding or donate some stuff into a plastic cup
18:30:51 haploid Ge: you're right. We don't. But an intellligence orders of magnitude smarter than us WOULD know.
18:30:51 Natasha Brian's book really digs into the history of transhumanism. I'm glad someone else has written about it.
18:30:55 Jonesey pen's haven't put a stop to much of anything that lots of ppl want to do.
18:31:10 Natasha Max's book has changed. It now has a totally new title and direction.
18:31:15 Coyote ah so you are relying on mobe rule?
18:31:18 Ge mermaod: that's not the immortality we care about, tho
18:31:27 kevin Natasha: Other than writing collaboration.. do you see the possibilities of various groups coming together to pool resources?
18:31:30 Coyote (Mob)
18:31:40 John_Ventureville I wish I could "beam" you all over for the wonderful dinner we are beginning to serve right now at the Creekside
18:31:41 John_Ventureville : )
18:31:52 Ge haploid: why would such an intelligence want to help us?
18:31:55 John_Ventureville lots of great conversation over good food
18:32:01 haploid That's the point. IMO every goal of transhumanists everywhere can be accomplished by focusing on one thing and one thing only: FAI.
18:32:09 BruceK * BruceK would ask that we stay focused on NATASHA please
18:33:13 kevin heh
18:33:17 BruceK haploid.. i would tend to agree with this point...
18:33:17 cyborg01 Natasha: is ExI also involved in tech business consulting or something like that
18:33:50 simdizzy Friendliness is not the issue: what matters is compassion and politeness
18:34:04 kevin Nat: Money is of course a huge issue for everyone.. and especially for those of us who know that staying alive is going to cost a LOT of it..
18:34:05 simdizzy sometimes you have to cruel to be compassionate
18:34:19 kevin Have you any stock tips.
18:34:20 kevin ?
18:34:24 Natasha Yes, ExI is involved in tech business consutling. Thanks to Max who has been so involved in business strategy for the past few years that I hardly see him.
18:34:37 nanotechking Natasha i think we should combine the new form of art with the existing one so more people can understand and gradually accept it
18:35:01 Natasha Stock tips? Geez - I think I just lost some money last week with Microsoft. I did a risky investment a few years ago with Celera. I hope it starts climbing.
18:35:05 Coyote what new form of art?
18:35:06 nanotechking extropy is not only for experts
18:35:23 John_Ventureville Natasha, so if I understand you right ExI is seeking to make money through business consultation?
18:35:29 Jonesey ms selloff is overdone
18:35:31 kevin Geron seems to have a good thing going with it's telomerase vaccine trials..
18:36:17 Natasha ExI wants to make money through doing someting mind blowing - like MAKING MONEY! :-) Now, that would be mind blowing.
18:36:22 Jonesey qqq(nasdaq 100) actually rallied friday, no way ms is that weak compared to the nasdaq 100 as a whole.
18:36:30 kevin chuckle
18:36:41 Jonesey unless nasdaq is a bout to get stomped
18:36:43 Lucifer How will ExI make money?
18:39:50 simdizzy surely someone here has the answre
18:39:57 Natasha I took a course in grant writing before I became president. My goal was to figure out how the hell to design a structure that would perk up the ears of money doners. There are so many organizations having conferences on the future that it is almost overbroad. Many organizations are also working on biotechnology that can actually turn a penny and these will get funding first. There are also a lot of organizations that are
18:40:36 Lucifer There are also a lot of organizations that are... ?
18:41:35 kevin Nat: Is the word 'transhuman' off putting? Do people automatically want to be considered 'human' even though they wouldn't mind being part of the advances which are currently labelled 'transhuman'?
18:41:37 Jonesey calm down lucifer she's typing
18:41:48 kevin I think this is a major roadblock to public acceptance of the concept.
18:42:01 Natasha I'm rather fond of education and entertainment. I think that "questions" are also well received by the public and instrumental in helping people understand problems and solutions. Thus, I worked with our board to design "The Futurists' QUIZ" which is not revolutaionary or even novel. It is simple. We are designing a simple questions and proposed answers to issues that concerns society.
18:42:13 BruceK hmm, that may have been a cutoff... after 'that are' from Natasha..
18:42:14 Lucifer Jonesey, I think her message was cut off
18:42:42 BruceK there's a max que for individual posts on irc
18:42:52 BruceK that right David?
18:42:56 Lucifer * Lucifer nods
18:43:04 BruceK can you up that somehow?
18:43:05 Coyote What demographic are we trying to reach?
18:43:05 Natasha <Natasha Vita-More> I took a course in grant writing before I became president. My goal was to figure out how the hell to design a structure that would perk up the ears of money doners. There are so many organizations having conferences on the future that it is almost overbroad. Many organizations are also working on biotechnology that can actually turn a penny and these will get funding first. There are also a lot of
18:43:19 Eliezer there's a max message length
18:43:28 Eliezer that last one, for example, was cut off at "also a lot of"
18:43:37 Eliezer you need to post only the missing sections
18:43:44 Natasha I don't think "transhuman" is offputting if presented with a sense of dignity and care.
18:43:45 BruceK right.. but the poster can't see this..
18:43:46 nanotechking The first part of the human body that needs improvement is the brain
18:44:24 Jonesey wouldn't guess that from the most popular cosmetic surgical procedures nanotechking
18:44:32 Natasha I'll ask my left hand to tell my right hand not to type so much.
18:44:42 Coyote Natasha: not offputing to YOU perhaps, but consider your demographic
18:44:49 kevin Nat: agreed.. but..
18:45:12 kevin each individual 'transhumanist' cannot be relied upon to present it in the 'proper light' or any light I think.
18:45:51 kevin I think it is a good term to get one's attention.. but perhaps not one that resonates
18:45:59 Coyote Natasha: I think something like %75 of Americans belive in creatonism, consider that as a litmus test
18:46:11 kevin Americans are an outlier.
18:46:14 Mermaid eh? 75%?
18:46:23 Coyote yes aproximately
18:46:24 kevin globally speaking.
18:46:56 caliban Natasha, I know it might be the oldest and most dire question - but what are your ideas about how to include more women in extropian discussion?
18:47:18 kevin I think it was slightly less coyote.. but 75% were Christian.
18:47:18 Ge Ge (~Ge@[death to spam].ACA8E84C.ipt.aol.com) has quit IRC [Quit: JWIRC applet]
18:47:21 Natasha If trans is used as it was originally designed to mean - "in transition." For example, if a top athlete, such as one of the Williams sisters, "I love tennis! But, I want to get better at the game. I'm in transition and, you could call me a "transplayer" as I approach the grand matches.
18:47:51 Natasha WOMEN! My favorite question (er... one of them). But, hold on
18:48:35 nanotechking wouldnt -hyper be better than -trans?
18:48:42 Natasha Creationism? Yes, that's the catch. However, a lot of the people who believe in creationism also believe in heat surgery and/or invetro fertilization. The point is to take the athiesism out of immortality.
18:48:57 Jonesey americans are incredibly religious by the standards of industrialized countries. frightening really
18:50:27 Natasha Now, back to women... Simple. Women produce women. Women usually go where there are other women. We like to chat and discover things together. We love to laugh and be best friends. Women like women (well ... I can think of a few in our culture who don't seem to), however, this is the key reason why ExI now has more women on our Council of Advisors and Advisory Team. Beside this, women are very interesting thinkers.
18:50:39 BruceK * BruceK doesn't understand about taking the atheism out of immortality...
18:50:44 Natasha Hyper is a bit frenetic for me.
18:50:46 kevin Nat: understood.. but.. to be 'trans' anything is to place yourself 'outside' of a process.. most people identify with the word 'human' and although supportive of many 'transhuman' philosphophies find it a bit arrogant to want to 'rise above humanity' .. (even though in reality that is what we are striving for every day)
18:50:50 Mermaid i dont like women
18:50:51 BruceK are you refering to apealing to religion?
18:51:02 Natasha Well, if you got out of the water more often you might.
18:51:08 kevin LOL
18:51:13 nanotechking religion is separated from science and philosophy
18:51:23 Natasha Not necessarily appealing to religion. Just not kicking dirt in its face so often.
18:51:26 Mermaid * Mermaid sulks..but..but..but
18:51:48 kevin I believe if we live long enough we may not need to die to 'see the face of god'
18:52:07 Natasha Yes, of course religion is antagonistical and nonconstructive to science and partially to philosophy, but unless and until a religion monger ties me to the cross, I'm going to stay out of their way.
18:52:37 Jonesey hard to stay out of their way when they are so controlling, e.g. restrictions on stem cells
18:52:45 Mermaid good..thats the most sensible thing i have heard in here re religion in a long long time
18:52:54 mporter ExI offers consulting services now; does it also seek sponsorship for its own activities?
18:52:56 kevin when they are controlling the purse strings..
18:53:11 Mermaid is it my imagination or are you folks a tad paranoid about fundies?
18:53:11 Natasha My mother is religious. My brothers are religious. My sister is religous. They adore me and love my ideas. Hey, they might even pay for a few more hundred years when it becomes popular.
18:53:40 Coyote its not paranoia
18:53:47 Mermaid granted there are a few nuts out there....
18:53:49 Coyote they have political power
18:53:54 Mermaid for now
18:53:55 Rotaerk are they fundamentalists? hard-core religious folk?
18:53:57 kevin I really don't think religions have to promote death to be viable.. they just need to change their strategies.. and they will have to.
18:54:15 Jonesey yep you are forced to recite "one nation under god" as a kid in the US
18:54:19 Mermaid atheists are too self involved...i think thats why atheism is less popular than religions
18:54:23 Natasha If religous fanatics continue to spread their appaling views in the vestibule of biotechnology, we will not fight alone. The disabeled will be by our side.
18:54:27 Jonesey the brainwashing starts early
18:54:35 Mermaid when was the last time you heard of an atheist charitable institution
18:54:44 Coyote Merm good point
18:54:45 kevin exactly Mermaid..
18:55:04 Lazlo Mermaid, UNICEF )
18:55:04 Mermaid or the last time an atheist organisation fed people in ethiopia and told them that theres more where that came from if they can write a two page essay on why god cant be rational
18:55:12 Mermaid * Mermaid beats Lazlo with a wet noodle
18:55:19 Jonesey there are lots of secular charitable orgs which include many atheists..?
18:55:25 nanotechking conservatism is another problem
18:55:30 Coyote And churched provide a sence of community in a social order that is increasingly isolationist
18:55:47 Mermaid Coyote: bingo
18:55:55 nanotechking many people are not openminded
18:55:55 Natasha If we could work out some or at least one of the problems with the environment, then we might gain more popular momentum.
18:56:09 Jonesey good point natasha, the more the religious right actually flexes political muscle the more frightening they are even to the religious majority
18:56:09 kevin altruism is a tad more prevalent in theist organizations.
18:56:22 Mermaid i prefer the company of people who make me laugh, feed me like i am going to be shot at dawn..heck..i even like it when they pray for me
18:56:28 Lazlo Doctors without Borders too BTW 
)
18:56:43 Mermaid Lazlo: they are secular..but are they specifically non religious?
18:56:48 Lazlo yes
18:56:48 Mermaid atheistic even
18:56:53 Lazlo and a polital
18:56:59 Lazlo apolitical*
18:57:16 Mermaid are you saying doctors without borders have members who are openly atheists and promote atheism?
18:57:22 Lazlo they insist on not obsevig any religion but respecting all
18:57:26 Mermaid that doesnt count
18:57:30 Lazlo observing*
18:57:34 Mermaid how is that selling atheism or competing wtih religions?
18:57:41 Coyote so lets say Transhumanists for a weekly sunday meeting ritual, what will transhumanist "do" together to make this worthwile?
18:57:52 Lazlo they treat religion as political and take no sides
18:57:56 Natasha hahaha hahaha
18:58:17 Lazlo they must walk on battlefields from all sides of a conflict
18:58:18 Mermaid atheists always have a point to prove..they always have that fighting stance that creeps the shit out of me...i hate to say this..but religious are much better company when they arent preaching
18:58:27 Natasha Well, I was planting trees today. Then Max up my pie in the oven. After that I would probably knit with other transhumanists.
18:58:44 kevin
18:58:51 Mermaid Lazlo: my point remains..every charitable orgnisation affiliated to a religion makes a point of selling religion
18:59:01 Mermaid unless atheist orgn do the same..its not on the same playing field
18:59:10 Natasha That's how they make money. Religion is a business.
18:59:13 mporter one way to 'transhumanize' old rituals is by way of astronomy. most world cultures have a calendrical dimension correlating the seasons and the zodiac.
18:59:14 Lazlo that is true now back to Natasha
18:59:33 Natasha I love astronomy.
18:59:38 BruceK Natasha, before the official chat ends here.. would you have any words of advice for ImmInst and how we can be successfull as a fledgling startup nonprofit ?
18:59:44 Jonesey atheists are great company when they aren't fighting, and religious are great company when they're not preaching. sounds pretty even to me
18:59:58 Natasha Plant trees, back pies, and have plenty of sex.
19:00:03 kevin heh
19:00:04 Coyote ok
19:00:05 Natasha I'm just kidding.
19:00:06 BruceK nice!
19:00:10 Lazlo in that order?
19:00:10 kevin awwwww
19:00:12 Natasha No I'm not.
19:00:13 outlawpoet How does one back a pie?
19:00:15 Mermaid natasha..you said back pies and plenty of sex..i am almost afraid to ask
19:00:19 Coyote about the pies?
19:00:38 Natasha Take the two crusts and put them between your legs and (I'm thinking Jack Nicholson.)
19:00:39 kevin it seems to work for the Raelians..
19:00:43 kevin the sex I mean..
19:00:53 kevin as a recruiting device..
19:00:59 Natasha back pies. You all know I'm a lousy typist/speller/editor.
19:01:06 Natasha Ooops! Bake pies.
19:01:15 Lazlo they must get quite a few types of donatins that way
19:01:15 Rotaerk haha
19:01:25 Mermaid * Mermaid was thinking of last tango in paris
19:01:37 Mermaid ahh..bake pies!
19:01:38 Mermaid phew
19:01:39 Jonesey for a minute i was impressed by the ability to bake pies while on one's back
19:01:46 BruceK * BruceK Official Chat Ends
19:01:48 Natasha hahahahaha
19:01:52 Jonesey but then some are very versatile from that position
19:01:53 nanotechking Natasha i want to create a website about tranhumanism and extropy in my country Greece where can i get help?
19:01:55 kevin heh
19:01:58 Coyote well that realy degraded
19:02:00 BruceK feel free to chatter as long as desired
19:02:03 Natasha Yes, email me and I'll help.
19:02:06 Jonesey you're welcome coyote
19:02:12 Mermaid cool..another greek in the network
19:02:17 mporter porn spammers are now targeting extropians: http://groups.google...sfeed.slurp.net
19:02:18 kevin mention pie and sex.. and all hell breaks loose
19:02:23 nanotechking thank you
19:02:29 Natasha Never mention pie and sex in the same sentence.
19:02:30 celindra Pie sex is fun for the whole family
19:02:32 Jonesey mporter I don't think they discriminate
19:02:36 kevin there's a movie in there somewhere
19:02:45 Natasha Hollywood!
19:02:54 Jonesey or maybe they thought my son was an extropian when they sent him porn
19:02:55 caliban on the happy note of sex and pies: many thanks for being with us Natasha !! :-)
19:02:56 Coyote anyone developing transhuma pornography yet?
19:03:10 kevin Yes Natasha.. thanks for coming..
19:03:15 celindra * celindra raises a hand
19:03:20 Jonesey coyote:some porn stars certainly sport transhuman enhancements of various kinds already
19:03:34 mporter jonesey: actually it's newsposting bots trolling alt.sex.*, inserting the wildcard in their posts, so it says things like "I'm raw from too much extropians"
19:03:39 Natasha You are very welcome. I enjoyed this, just as I did last week when I showed up unannounced :-) I am serious, however, about forming an alliance so we can check out what the heck each other is doing and network better.
19:03:47 BruceK Yes, Thanks for joining ImmInst and please feel free to make it 3 in a row by joining us next week!
19:03:53 kevin Thats right Natasha.. You came twice. .
19:03:57 Jonesey mporter:I imagine there's someone saying that and really meaning it
19:04:09 Coyote Natasha lets network better
19:04:19 Natasha Yes.
19:04:30 BruceK jeeez.. natasha has been coming and going a lot lately
19:04:31 Coyote what is forming an alliance
19:04:35 Coyote ?
19:04:36 kevin heh
19:05:13 kevin Would it be an idea to make a formal effort to work on the book perhaps?
19:05:14 BruceK ImmInst has Extropy networked in our Featured Sites page
19:05:18 caliban ... networking would be excellent. And considering your advice-
please have no inhibitions about coming af often as you feel like
19:05:29 BruceK but we need to do more on an individual basis..
19:05:34 Natasha Between laughs, I'm trying to appear at least a wee bit sensible ... I mentioned the fact that it would be good if we formed an informal meeting for people who have transhumanist organizations to communiate about what they are doing so that we are better connected. We don't have this!
19:05:49 Coyote well we do have IRC
19:05:52 kevin ABSOLUTELY!
19:05:53 mporter "misbehaving.net is a weblog about women and technology"
19:05:55 mporter a new group-blog
19:06:01 kevin good idea mporter
19:06:10 mporter not my idea
19:06:14 mporter it started this month
19:06:15 Natasha Okay - good night dear friends. You are fabulous.
19:06:22 Coyote Nataskaya: so.. extropy not working?
19:06:24 Coyote wops
19:06:36 kevin "and like a fire fly in the night.. "
19:06:42 celindra I think BJ should put us all up at his house for a week so we can eat his food and discuss Transhumanism
19:06:47 BruceK * BruceK notes that Reason has a transhumanist webmasters yahoo group
19:07:02 kevin * kevin thinks we need to find another word for 'transhumanism'
19:07:02 caliban caliban is now known as caliban_away
19:07:14 BruceK yumm
19:07:25 Lucifer what do you suggest, kevin?
19:07:57 kevin .. good question Lucifer...
19:08:15 prometheus How about "The Brights".
19:08:25 kevin something that reflects the continuation of 'being human' while moving past biological limitations..
19:08:36 celindra I don't want to be human
19:08:39 celindra It blows
19:08:43 Eliezer ...you know, prometheus, that would actually have been a great suggestion, had you just made it a few months earlier
19:08:46 kevin read that one somewhere Prometheus...
19:08:59 simdizzy dude "The Brights" is associated with atheism
19:09:13 nanotechking goodnight from Greece nice to speak with openmind people nanotechking@[death to spam].yahoo.com you are all invited to my country
19:09:14 kevin well.. being 'biological' sucks..
19:09:17 BruceK * BruceK has just finished remodeling his basement, and has plenty of floore space for vagabond transhumanist
19:09:31 celindra * celindra leaves for B'ham
19:09:32 kevin being 'human' is awesome.. but it depends on what you view as being human
19:09:38 Jonesey lot of transhumans coming for the olympics, between the steroids and other drugs
19:09:42 BruceK heh, take care nanotechking
19:10:13 BruceK kevin, good point..
19:10:24 BruceK i look at it as just a seed...
19:10:30 BruceK we're so limited in so many ways..
19:10:44 kevin I wanna stay human.. because it's being human that has got us this far. .and I think it is the essence of what we will carry forward with us no matter what form we take
19:11:00 mporter i don't see what you have against the word 'transhumanism' then
19:11:06 mporter the major alternative is 'posthumanism'
19:11:12 mporter and it's LESS affirmative about human-ness
19:11:14 Jonesey conversely, being human is what has us on the brink of extinction
19:11:26 kevin I'm ok with the word.. but it means 'moving past' /abandoning our roots..
19:11:27 BruceK which word is better... immortalist or transhumanist ?
19:11:36 kevin I prefer immortalist..
19:11:40 mporter immortalism focuses on the dimension of lifespan
19:11:50 Lucifer mporter is right, they aren't the same
19:12:18 Lucifer Thought I suspect a fairly large overlap between the groups
19:12:19 kevin depends on your philosophy.. immortal means lasting forever.. transhuman just means getting past a stage..
19:12:32 BruceK yeh... most everybody just wishes to live a bit longer...
19:12:35 kevin immortal incoporates transhuman
19:12:37 cyborg01 Neohumanism
19:12:40 cyborg01
19:12:45 mporter wired had 'superhumanism'
19:12:49 BruceK that's something that just about all people can agree upon
19:12:55 BruceK death sucks
19:12:56 kevin NewHuman
19:13:00 kevin death bites
19:13:10 kevin ageing bites even more than death
19:13:25 kevin superhuman ..
19:13:29 kevin I think people might go for that
19:13:40 mporter would anyone here consider themselves a 'posthuman survivalist'? forget splendid talk about immortality and self-augmentation, they just want to survive the singularity and think they'll have to transform to do it?
19:13:55 simdizzy cyborh01: i think neohumanism is a great name!
19:13:56 BruceK Ettinger went for Superhuman
19:14:07 Coyote shur mporter
19:14:17 BruceK heh, what is it with us and thinking up names..
19:14:20 Coyote ubermenche
19:14:24 kevin now that The Matrix is out. .Neohumanism might pick up a few more votes
19:14:58 Jonesey heheheh
