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Astragalus, Astragaloside IV


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#1321 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:25 AM

Hmm...

It would be terrible for Blasco's reputation, if it is found out that the two are identical, wouldn't it?

A

#1322 niner

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 02:38 AM

It would be terrible for Blasco's reputation, if it is found out that the two are identical, wouldn't it?

I don't know. She could say "Well, they said it was different; we took their word on it." I'm starting to think that maybe the AACL analysis isn't the full story. They used LC MS, where the compounds are first separated in a high pressure liquid chromatograph, then the eluent is fed into a mass spectrometer for confirmation of identity. You can get a fairly decent ID from the LC alone on a compound in a mixture if you have a pure sample of it, so you can see exactly where in the chromatogram the peak elutes. This isn't perfect, though, since isomers that are close can sometimes co-elute. The mass spec provides a second form of ID, but whether or not it can distinguish isomers depends on how the MS is done. My first thought was that they were fragmenting the molecule and getting the mass of all the little pieces; a "mass spectrum". This would expose at least some kinds of isomerism. However, I was talking to someone today about it, and they said that in LC MS, you usually use a soft ionization technique that doesn't break up the molecule. Instead, you get a single peak, so the information you get is a very precise molecular weight. That's fine and all, but it doesn't distinguish between isomers, be they positional, geometric, or stereochemical. Cycloastragenol has a ton of stereocenters, so the possibility of there being an isomer is substantial. If your CSO doesn't get the straight story from the Effros lab or Harley, you might want to talk to AACL and ask them how confident they are that they could distinguish an isomer of this compound.

#1323 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 04:50 AM

I don't know. She could say "Well, they said it was different; we took their word on it."


Yes, you are right of course.

If your CSO doesn't get the straight story from the Effros lab...

At this time I can confirm that Effros lab doesn't have any information regarding TA-65, only TAT2

or Harley,

I believe Harley is bound by confidentiality, so I don't think he will be able to answer even if he wanted to.

you might want to talk to AACL and ask them how confident they are that they could distinguish an isomer of this compound.

Sounds interesting...however I again read Blasco's report, and it appears that the way it is written ... the beneficial effects of TAT2 somehow are insinuated upon TA-65. It would seem it could provide similar effects... when it was not demonstrated by Blasco at all. That leap of faith she takes for possible benefits to attribute to TA-65 from the TAT2 study seems like a marketing ploy to me... so, even if I believed that they were two different substances (which I don't), this lowers my view of her lab results since they may be biased because we know that different isomers can provide different results, and she didn't provide proof that TA-65 could provide the same benefits that TAT2 could provide.

Of course if she stated this because she knew they were the same substance ... and she needed to attribute additional benefits, then she clearly is misrepresenting her work for some reason.

TA-65 treatment increases proliferation and
mobilization potential of mouse keratinocytes in vitro, a situation
mimicking telomerase overexpression (Greider, 1998; Cerezo
et al., 2003). Recently, Fauce et al. (2008)demonstrated
that TAT2, a similar molecule, has beneficial effects in the activation
of CD8+ T lymphocytes from HIV-infected patients



Either way, I am now uncomfortable with her findings.

A


Edited by Anthony_Loera, 21 July 2011 - 03:23 PM.

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#1324 Chopperboy

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:43 AM

As Anthony's Cyclo is not available again until end Aug, I instead bought Cyclo from Medicass in China for $48.00 per bottle.

"Each capsule contains 5mg of Cycloastragenol and 485mg of Astragalus extract that are mainly composed of Astragalus polysaccharides"

http://www.medicass....t_en.asp?ID=266

The only problem is that I am allergic to some of the other compounds in astragulus root (not cyclo). I get red itchy hands and feet which lasts 2 days from these capsules and same from Astragulus root tea. It looks like Medicass they haven't gone through the full extraction process to produce pure Cyclo.

So now I am cutting the powder inside the capsules to the point where I don't get a reaction. But that means I am getting less than 1mg per day.

Any ideas??

Edited by Chopperboy, 22 July 2011 - 12:17 PM.


#1325 missminni

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 11:49 AM

Just came across this - Geron Patent for Formulations containing astragalus extracts and uses thereof
Don't know if it's already been posted, but if not...here it is.
http://worldwide.esp...=E&locale=en_EP

#1326 Chopperboy

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 02:06 PM

Just came across this - Geron Patent for Formulations containing astragalus extracts and uses thereof
Don't know if it's already been posted, but if not...here it is.

Already posted and known about. As they are not novel compounds, and have been in use for thousands of years in Chinese medicine Genron has almost no chance of making it stick - at least internationally.

#1327 missminni

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 02:19 PM

Just came across this - Geron Patent for Formulations containing astragalus extracts and uses thereof
Don't know if it's already been posted, but if not...here it is.

Already posted and known about. As they are not novel compounds, and have been in use for thousands of years in Chinese medicine Genron has almost no chance of making it stick - at least internationally.


I read elsewhere that they made a synthetic version so they could patent it and that is what TAScience is using. I have no idea if this is true. It was posted on another forum from a few years back.

#1328 Chopperboy

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 08:08 AM

Just came across this - Geron Patent for Formulations containing astragalus extracts and uses thereof
Don't know if it's already been posted, but if not...here it is.

Already posted and known about. As they are not novel compounds, and have been in use for thousands of years in Chinese medicine Genron has almost no chance of making it stick - at least internationally.


I read elsewhere that they made a synthetic version so they could patent it and that is what TAScience is using. I have no idea if this is true. It was posted on another forum from a few years back.

TA-65 is cycloastraganol which is not a novel compound. Even if it was made synthetically as a bio-identical compound it wouldn't be novel. If they made a telomerase activator that was novel it would require FDA approval.

#1329 1907

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 06:13 PM

I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this question - -
If you could customize an anti aging supplement, what would you put in it?

I presently take the following as my supplement –
Cycloastragenol raw powder at 50% purity 20 mg (10 mg of pure product)
Cytoxan (sometimes I switch with edta) 500 mg

I take other suppliments, but I take those at night and this in the morning. I have notices slow changes over the last 6 months. My receding hair line has moved forward 1/8 inch, I haven’t caught a cold of any kind, and I feel younger. I know a feeling is subjective, but in my career I’ve become more aggressive like I was 10 years ago. Just this last month I fought for and won a promotion and my productivity has gone up.

Again, with as many people here that have educated themselves on this subject; I would like to know what you would take. Not just TA65, but the actual component. If anyone has a better idea, I might just switch :)

#1330 Logan

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:09 PM

I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this question - -
If you could customize an anti aging supplement, what would you put in it?

I presently take the following as my supplement –
Cycloastragenol raw powder at 50% purity 20 mg (10 mg of pure product)
Cytoxan (sometimes I switch with edta) 500 mg

I take other suppliments, but I take those at night and this in the morning. I have notices slow changes over the last 6 months. My receding hair line has moved forward 1/8 inch, I haven't caught a cold of any kind, and I feel younger. I know a feeling is subjective, but in my career I've become more aggressive like I was 10 years ago. Just this last month I fought for and won a promotion and my productivity has gone up.

Again, with as many people here that have educated themselves on this subject; I would like to know what you would take. Not just TA65, but the actual component. If anyone has a better idea, I might just switch :)


Where do you get your cycloastragenol raw powder from? Are you using cytoxan to treat cancer or simply for the immune enhancing effects?

#1331 1907

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:26 PM

I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this question - -
If you could customize an anti aging supplement, what would you put in it?

I presently take the following as my supplement –
Cycloastragenol raw powder at 50% purity 20 mg (10 mg of pure product)
Cytoxan (sometimes I switch with edta) 500 mg

I take other suppliments, but I take those at night and this in the morning. I have notices slow changes over the last 6 months. My receding hair line has moved forward 1/8 inch, I haven't caught a cold of any kind, and I feel younger. I know a feeling is subjective, but in my career I've become more aggressive like I was 10 years ago. Just this last month I fought for and won a promotion and my productivity has gone up.

Again, with as many people here that have educated themselves on this subject; I would like to know what you would take. Not just TA65, but the actual component. If anyone has a better idea, I might just switch :)


Where do you get your cycloastragenol raw powder from? Are you using cytoxan to treat cancer or simply for the immune enhancing effects?


Thanks for responding.

Sorry, my spell check hates me. Chitosan - is the second item. I take it because the information that I've read leads me to believe it helps with absorption of the cyclo.

I didn't like the prices of astral fruit or TA65, so I set myself up as a distributor for cycloastragenol. Not that I sell it to anyone else, I was just looking to get a better price. That's how I have the raw power that I measure out.

#1332 missminni

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:15 PM

I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this question - -
If you could customize an anti aging supplement, what would you put in it?

I presently take the following as my supplement –
Cycloastragenol raw powder at 50% purity 20 mg (10 mg of pure product)
Cytoxan (sometimes I switch with edta) 500 mg

I take other suppliments, but I take those at night and this in the morning. I have notices slow changes over the last 6 months. My receding hair line has moved forward 1/8 inch, I haven't caught a cold of any kind, and I feel younger. I know a feeling is subjective, but in my career I've become more aggressive like I was 10 years ago. Just this last month I fought for and won a promotion and my productivity has gone up.

Again, with as many people here that have educated themselves on this subject; I would like to know what you would take. Not just TA65, but the actual component. If anyone has a better idea, I might just switch :)


Where do you get your cycloastragenol raw powder from? Are you using cytoxan to treat cancer or simply for the immune enhancing effects?


Thanks for responding.

Sorry, my spell check hates me. Chitosan - is the second item. I take it because the information that I've read leads me to believe it helps with absorption of the cyclo.

I didn't like the prices of astral fruit or TA65, so I set myself up as a distributor for cycloastragenol. Not that I sell it to anyone else, I was just looking to get a better price. That's how I have the raw power that I measure out.

why did you get 50% instead of 98%. You would only have to use half the amount if you got 98%
I'm thinking about ordering it too. It seems to be the only way to get it at an affordable price and without additives.

#1333 1907

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:32 PM

I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this question - -
If you could customize an anti aging supplement, what would you put in it?

I presently take the following as my supplement –
Cycloastragenol raw powder at 50% purity 20 mg (10 mg of pure product)
Cytoxan (sometimes I switch with edta) 500 mg

I take other suppliments, but I take those at night and this in the morning. I have notices slow changes over the last 6 months. My receding hair line has moved forward 1/8 inch, I haven't caught a cold of any kind, and I feel younger. I know a feeling is subjective, but in my career I've become more aggressive like I was 10 years ago. Just this last month I fought for and won a promotion and my productivity has gone up.

Again, with as many people here that have educated themselves on this subject; I would like to know what you would take. Not just TA65, but the actual component. If anyone has a better idea, I might just switch :)


Where do you get your cycloastragenol raw powder from? Are you using cytoxan to treat cancer or simply for the immune enhancing effects?


Thanks for responding.

Sorry, my spell check hates me. Chitosan - is the second item. I take it because the information that I've read leads me to believe it helps with absorption of the cyclo.

I didn't like the prices of astral fruit or TA65, so I set myself up as a distributor for cycloastragenol. Not that I sell it to anyone else, I was just looking to get a better price. That's how I have the raw power that I measure out.

why did you get 50% instead of 98%. You would only have to use half the amount if you got 98%
I'm thinking about ordering it too. It seems to be the only way to get it at an affordable price and without additives.


The 50% pure was far cheaper than the 98%. You would think it would be about half the price, but it was more like 30% the price. It was just a math decision.

#1334 McQueen

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 10:33 PM

Here is a tangential question about my same concern: if ta-65 and cycloastragenol are one and the same why does tasciences recommend 6 month routines taking it every day and then a 2 week cooling off period. Others offering cycloastragenol recommend 1 week on and 1 week off? When I questioned one person about this (someone highly informed in the areas we are talking about) they suggested you need the week off while taking antioxidants to scavenge for stray cancer cells. Then you go back to the cycloastragenol. Any thoughts? It just seems like another question as to whether cyclo and ta-65 are the same.

#1335 Moonlitnight

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 10:56 PM

Taking antioxidants for a week to "scavenge for stray cancer cells" sounds quite bizarre* to me. Are these stray cells presumed to result from taking the cycloastragenol? Is one not suppossed to take antioxidants at all while on cycloastragenol? I take my curcumin, resveratrol and other AAs in the am and my cycloastragenol/astragolide IV blend in the afternoon, five or so hours before melatonin. I drink three cups of matcha tea during the day as well as two large green/purple smoothies with a full broccoli head and box of broccoli sprouts. I realize these products might thwart the cycloastragenol somewhat but I guess I choose to believe Vince's POV that they likely only block telomerase in mutated/cancerous cells.

* not intended to sound disrespectful.

Edited by Anisor, 27 July 2011 - 10:57 PM.


#1336 niner

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:33 AM

Here is a tangential question about my same concern: if ta-65 and cycloastragenol are one and the same why does tasciences recommend 6 month routines taking it every day and then a 2 week cooling off period. Others offering cycloastragenol recommend 1 week on and 1 week off? When I questioned one person about this (someone highly informed in the areas we are talking about) they suggested you need the week off while taking antioxidants to scavenge for stray cancer cells. Then you go back to the cycloastragenol. Any thoughts? It just seems like another question as to whether cyclo and ta-65 are the same.

The protocols differ because no one knows what's needed or what will work. As for antioxidants scavenging stray cancer cells? Forget it. They just don't work that way.

#1337 niner

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:41 AM

I realize these products might thwart the cycloastragenol somewhat but I guess I choose to believe Vince's POV that they likely only block telomerase in mutated/cancerous cells.

I suppose if they worked upstream of telomerase to stop it from extending telomeres, affecting something that was only active in a cancer cell, that might be possible, but if they actually inhibit telomerase, I just don't see how that could only work in certain cells. Does Vince have a rationale for his view?

Edit: Considering the activity of cycloastragenol, I don't think that it would lengthen telomeres enough to make a difference in a tumor cell line. Someone should do an in vitro experiment to look at that.

Edited by niner, 28 July 2011 - 12:45 AM.


#1338 Moonlitnight

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:59 AM

Here's one of Vince's posts, but there is another, providing background info for his supposition, relating to various supplements. I will try to find... http://www.anti-agin...downregulation/

ETA: Here is the post I am thinking about... http://www.anti-agin...-of-telomerase/

Edited by Anisor, 28 July 2011 - 01:20 AM.


#1339 DeadMeat

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:23 PM

Edit: Considering the activity of cycloastragenol, I don't think that it would lengthen telomeres enough to make a difference in a tumor cell line. Someone should do an in vitro experiment to look at that.


At least in the in the tumor cells they tested, cycloastragenol doesn't activate telomerase much.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2682219/

Arguably, any telomerase activator, despite its beneficial immune effects, might pose a risk of increased proliferation of tumor cells. However, in all ex vivo studies conducted to date, there was no evidence that TAT2 promoted loss of growth control or transformation. For example, TAT2 did not lead to any significant increase in the constitutive telomerase activity in the Jurkat T cell tumor line (Supplemental Fig. 3). Moreover, chronic exposure to TAT2 did not alter the rate of EBV transformation of normal B lymphocytes in cell culture (Supplemental Fig. 4), nor did it increase HIV-1 production in isolated infected CD4+ T lymphocytes from HIV-1-infected donors (Supplemental Fig. 2). In primary T cell cultures, TAT2 enhanced proliferative potential and retarded telomere loss, but the cells were nevertheless dependent on IL-2 and restimulation for growth. Moreover, after ∼30 population doublings, a sharp decline in growth rate in the TAT2-treated cultures was noted, suggesting that the cells were approaching replicative senescence. We speculate that TAT2 might moderately extend the lifespan of "presenescent cells" with low telomerase activity through modest up-regulation of telomerase and extension of the shortest telomeres in individual cells. Importantly, we have observed that the telomerase up-regulation effects are short term and reversible; removal of TAT2 from cells returns telomerase levels to baseline within a few days without any effects on cell viability (Supplemental Fig. 5).



#1340 Moonlitnight

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:13 PM

Very interesting, Dead Meat...thanks.

#1341 1907

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:16 PM

I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this question - -
If you could customize an anti aging supplement, what would you put in it?

I presently take the following as my supplement –
Cycloastragenol raw powder at 50% purity 20 mg (10 mg of pure product)
Cytoxan (sometimes I switch with edta) 500 mg

I take other suppliments, but I take those at night and this in the morning. I have notices slow changes over the last 6 months. My receding hair line has moved forward 1/8 inch, I haven't caught a cold of any kind, and I feel younger. I know a feeling is subjective, but in my career I've become more aggressive like I was 10 years ago. Just this last month I fought for and won a promotion and my productivity has gone up.

Again, with as many people here that have educated themselves on this subject; I would like to know what you would take. Not just TA65, but the actual component. If anyone has a better idea, I might just switch :)


Where do you get your cycloastragenol raw powder from? Are you using cytoxan to treat cancer or simply for the immune enhancing effects?


Thanks for responding.

Sorry, my spell check hates me. Chitosan - is the second item. I take it because the information that I've read leads me to believe it helps with absorption of the cyclo.

I didn't like the prices of astral fruit or TA65, so I set myself up as a distributor for cycloastragenol. Not that I sell it to anyone else, I was just looking to get a better price. That's how I have the raw power that I measure out.

why did you get 50% instead of 98%. You would only have to use half the amount if you got 98%
I'm thinking about ordering it too. It seems to be the only way to get it at an affordable price and without additives.


The 50% pure was far cheaper than the 98%. You would think it would be about half the price, but it was more like 30% the price. It was just a math decision.


I’m surprised I’m not seeing more opinions as to what should be in a good cycloastragenol supplement.

I was wondering if any other astragalus based compounds would enhance the effect?

Does anyone know a better compliment than Chitosan for increased absorption?

I take at least 10 mg of cycloastragenol a day now. Does anyone else take the larger dose?

I do value other peoples opinion on this, no one wants to work in a vacuum and be wrong. Please share :)

#1342 missminni

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:36 PM

I do value other peoples opinion on this, no one wants to work in a vacuum and be wrong. Please share :)



I think you might be doing more on this front than most.

TA Sciences is just cyclastragenol with .27 mg astragaloside IV and .01 mg astragenol.

LivLong is 5 mg of cyclastragenol, 35mg astragaloside IV 98% and 250 mg astragalus mebranaceus .5%

TA Science recommends taking two 5mg doses twice a day if you are over 60.

Please keep us posted on your progress.


#1343 Moonlitnight

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 11:16 PM

I'm taking the LivLong as well. Also just bought chitosan. At the moment, I'm taking just one LivLong daily (next year, I'll up it to two). I'm not sure of the MO by which chitosan works but Piper nigrum seems to enhance the bio-availability of various plant compounds, such as curcumin, as well as CoQ10. Maybe sprinkle a little black pepper on your food more often! That's relatively inexpensive and certainly can't hurt.

#1344 missminni

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 11:53 PM

I'm taking the LivLong as well. Also just bought chitosan. At the moment, I'm taking just one LivLong daily (next year, I'll up it to two). I'm not sure of the MO by which chitosan works but Piper nigrum seems to enhance the bio-availability of various plant compounds, such as curcumin, as well as CoQ10. Maybe sprinkle a little black pepper on your food more often! That's relatively inexpensive and certainly can't hurt.


How much chitosan are you planning on taking ?

#1345 Moonlitnight

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:21 AM

I believe it was Greenpower who mentioned chitosan way back when as increasing absorption (?). I just bought the Now 500mg capsules. You are supposed to take three with each meal for weight-control purposes. I don't need to control my weight so I am unsure at this point. I will do some more research while waiting for them.

#1346 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:32 AM

Yes, chitosan is interesting.

But it's my understanding that the astragaloside iv, needs to be in the chitosan, not just mixed in.

A




As may be indicated in the study I'll take 500MG chitosan followed by the your product from now on.


SAX



I just read the full document this morning, and again I stand corrected SAX.
It appears EDTA tken with Astragaloside IV increases absorption by 30 fold, while 0.1% chitosan increases absorption by over 60 fold.

To say the least, we will be adding chitosan to our next formulation, and will start adding chitosan to my regimen.

Thank you SAX for this info, I believe many here will benefit from it.

Anthony Loera


Actually, ampaynz1 brought it up as part of a post, then saxiephon appears to have been the first to ask the question directly... in 2008... and I checked and found the items in bold. Pretty interesting back then...

I do recommend taking a good read of the whole thread whenever possible.

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 29 July 2011 - 12:36 AM.


#1347 Moonlitnight

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:02 AM

Thanks Anthony... So one 500 mg chitosan cap and the Astragalus whatevers and we're in business.

#1348 niner

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:30 AM

Anthony, do you have a link to (or copy of) the document that says 0.1% chitosan increases absorption by over 60 fold? This is the abstract that saxiephon posted back around post #94 of this thread; is this the paper that gives those numbers?

Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet. 2006 Jan-Mar;31(1):5-10.
Absorption enhancement study of astragaloside IV based on its transport mechanism in caco-2 cells.
Huang CR, Wang GJ, Wu XL, Li H, Xie HT, Lv H, Sun JG.

Drug Metabolism and Pharmacokinetic Research Center, China Pharmaceutical University, Nanjing, People's Republic of China.

The purpose of this study was to investigate the transport characteristics and mechanisms for discovering the possible causes of the low bioavailability of astragaloside IV and to develop an absorption enhancement strategy. Caco-2 cells used as the in vitro model. Results showed a low permeability coefficient (3.7 x 10(-8)cm/s for transport from the AP to BL direction), which remained unchanged throughout the concentration range studied, indicating that the transport of astragaloside IV was predominantly via a passive route. The AP to BL transport of astragaloside IV was found to be highly sensitive to the extracellular Ca2+ concentration, which suggested that its transport may be via a paracellular route. Both chitosan and sodium deoxycholate can increase the permeation efficiency of astragaloside IV. This study indicated that astragaloside IV having a low fraction dose absorbed in humans mainly due to its poor intestinal permeability, high molecular weight, low lipophilicity as well as its paracelluar transport may directly result in the low permeability through its passive transport. Meanwhile, chitosan and sodium deoxycholate can be used as absorption enhancers based on its transport mechanism.

PMID: 16715776

This abstract is telling us that A-IV is absorbed by the paracellular route, which means that it is slipping through the tight junctions between the epithelial cells, rather than diffusing through the cell membrane. So how does chitosan improve this process? Chitosan is a polymer of glucosamine, where some fraction of the glucosamines are acetylated at the N position, causing them to be electrically neutral in solution. The unacetylated ones will be positively charged. Here is a paper about the mechanism:

Pharm Res. 1997 Jul;14(7):923-9.
Chitosans as absorption enhancers for poorly absorbable drugs 2: mechanism of absorption enhancement.
Schipper NG, Olsson S, Hoogstraate JA, deBoer AG, Vårum KM, Artursson P.

Department of Pharmaceutics, Uppsala University, Biomedical Center, Sweden. Nicolaas.Schipper@eu.pnu.com

PURPOSE:

It has recently been shown that the absorption enhancing and toxic effects of chitosans are dependent on their chemical composition. In this study, the mechanisms underlying these effects were investigated at the cellular level.
METHODS:

The effects on epithelial cells of chitosans with different chemical composition, absorption enhancing properties and toxicities were studied in Caco-2 monolayers. Chitosan C( 1:31) has a low degree of acetylation (DA) (1%) and a low m.w. (31 kD), and displays dose-dependent absorption enhancement and cytotoxicity; chitosan C(35:170) has a higher DA (35%) and a higher m.w. (170 kD), is less dose-dependent in absorption enhancement, and is not cytotoxic. A third non-toxic chitosan C(49:22) with a high DA (49%), a low m.w. (22 kD), and no influence on epithelial permeability was used as control.
RESULTS:

C(1:31) and C(35:170) bound tightly to the epithelium. Cellular uptake of the chitosans was not observed. Both chitosans increased apical but not basolateral cell membrane permeability and induced a redistribution of cytoskeletal F-actin and the tight junction protein ZO-1. This resulted in increased paracellular permeability of hydrophilic marker molecules of different molecular weights. Addition of negatively charged heparin inhibited the cellular and the absorption enhancing effects of the chitosans, indicating that these effects are mediated via their positive charges. The onset of the effects of C(35:170) on apical membrane permeability and tight junction structure was much faster than that of C(1:31). C(49:22) did not influence any of the properties of the Caco-2 cell monolayers studied.
CONCLUSIONS:

The binding and absorption enhancing effects of chitosans on epithelial cells are mediated through their positive charges. The interaction of chitosans with the cell membrane results in a structural reorganisation of tight junction-associated proteins which is followed by enhanced transport through the paracellular pathway.

PMID: 9244151

So, according to Schipper et al., there are different kinds of chitosans; they don't all work for absorption enhancement and some are cytotoxic. It looks like we would want something with a fairly high degree of acetylation (35% here) and a high MW. (170 kdal in this case) A possible concern with chitosan is that it is essentially giving you a "leaky" gut. Other medium-sized hydrophilic molecules that normally wouldn't be absorbed well will also be coming along for the ride. If we use a chitosan supplement, do we know if we're getting the right kind? NOW Foods and Swanson Chitosan use LipoSan Ultra, which this ten year-old study from the liposan site claims is actually 90% chitosan and 10% succinic acid. They say the deacetylation value is >78%, so that's <22% acetylated. If it's excessively acetylated, it doesn't work, so 22% is probably OK. The MW is 100 kdal, which should be ok if 31 kdal works. I don't know about the succinic acid component though; that's a riddle. My guess is that it's probably OK, since it will just act as a short unreactive linker. The LEF product doesn't say anything about its chitosan. Source Naturals is 10% acetylated, no MW given. These versions of Chitosan are all marketed as "fat blockers". Apparently these positively charged polymers bind to the negatively charge fatty acids. Where they end up is anyone's guess, but less fat is absorbed, if you take enough chitosan. Some of them warn you not to use them within 4 hours of any fat soluble vitamin supplement. I don't know how much chitosan you would need to alter gut permeability. If the 0.1% Anthony mentioned was for the concentration in the caco cell chamber, then you'd need enough to get 0.1% in the gut lumen. That would be one gram of chitosan per liter of fluid. If you count the whole GI tract, how many liters is that? 3? Just a guess. 3 grams seems like a lot, but maybe less would work.

#1349 hav

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 03:30 PM

Piperine, NAC, and grapefruit juice were also discussed earlier in the thread as things that could enhance the effect of astragalus-related stuff. I add 10 mg of piperine and 100 mg of NAC to mine. I had to hold off on the grapefruit juice however until I change cholesterol medications because it over-enhances the simvastatin I was taking.

Some complementary telomerase activating supplements were also mentioned. Myrobalan (terminalia chebula) and purslane. Curiously however, Sierra Sciences was reported in another thread to be including one of these in its coming Product B mix which includes resveratrol instead of with it's TA-65 (product A?)... perhaps to cancel out the telomerase inhibiting effect of most of the SIRT1 activating anti-oxidants in Product B. I follow the RevGenetics Astral Fruit-NF lead instead and add 100 mg of each to my Astragalus/AS4 stack. Dietary fiber supplements have also been mentioned as a complementary telomerase activator. I routinely take psyllium and have been thinking about adding inulin.

Another interesting supplement is ligustrum. This was apparently one of the earliest supplements teamed up with astragalus in early immune system clinical studies but I couldn't find any mention about its telomerase behavior. Not much discussion about it here.

Howard

Edited by hav, 29 July 2011 - 03:47 PM.

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#1350 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:00 PM

Anthony, do you have a link to (or copy of) the document that says 0.1% chitosan increases absorption by over 60 fold? This is the abstract that saxiephon posted back around post #94 of this thread; is this the paper that gives those numbers?



See the study here niner:
http://www.longecity...-chitosan-2006/
(Members only area)

Please comment, as my layman's impression was quite favorable... however, your comments on it would be most helpful if I misunderstood some of it.

Thanks
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 29 July 2011 - 08:02 PM.





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