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Bone creaking


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#1 caston

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 03:38 PM


In the last 4 months or so the amount of bone creaking has greatly increased. I don't feel any pain but it is very annoying. It seems to be mainly my knees/ elbows creaking. I have lost a lot of weight, been taking d3 and sleeping on a different (albeit cheap) matress and working in tech support which involves sitting in a chair for most of the shift.

Any ideas?

edit: I found a lot more info on google when I searched on "joint creaking" rather than "bone creaking"

Here is one such link: http://www.livescien...ints_crack.html

It might be okay but it makes me "feel older" and that isn't good in my book.

Edited by caston, 20 January 2008 - 04:12 PM.


#2 mitkat

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 05:42 PM

In the last 4 months or so the amount of bone creaking has greatly increased. I don't feel any pain but it is very annoying. It seems to be mainly my knees/ elbows creaking. I have lost a lot of weight, been taking d3 and sleeping on a different (albeit cheap) matress and working in tech support which involves sitting in a chair for most of the shift.

Any ideas?

edit: I found a lot more info on google when I searched on "joint creaking" rather than "bone creaking"

Here is one such link: http://www.livescien...ints_crack.html

It might be okay but it makes me "feel older" and that isn't good in my book.


It definitely makes me feel old too Caston :-D I would think that losing any weight would lessen pressure and strain on joints, thus eliminating any major creaking. My knees crack and pop every time I squat "third world style" which working as a gardener for most of my life happens for long periods, and I get lots of other general cracks. Cracks that are well audible to others. This truly is something I know little about, but I throw money at this problem by seeing a chiropractor every 4 weeks, it costs me $20 CAD.

What is bone creaking anyhow? The actual kinetic function, is it bad for bone health?

#3 caston

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 02:05 AM

In the last 4 months or so the amount of bone creaking has greatly increased. I don't feel any pain but it is very annoying. It seems to be mainly my knees/ elbows creaking. I have lost a lot of weight, been taking d3 and sleeping on a different (albeit cheap) matress and working in tech support which involves sitting in a chair for most of the shift.

Any ideas?

edit: I found a lot more info on google when I searched on "joint creaking" rather than "bone creaking"

Here is one such link: http://www.livescien...ints_crack.html

It might be okay but it makes me "feel older" and that isn't good in my book.


It definitely makes me feel old too Caston :-D I would think that losing any weight would lessen pressure and strain on joints, thus eliminating any major creaking. My knees crack and pop every time I squat "third world style" which working as a gardener for most of my life happens for long periods, and I get lots of other general cracks. Cracks that are well audible to others. This truly is something I know little about, but I throw money at this problem by seeing a chiropractor every 4 weeks, it costs me $20 CAD.

What is bone creaking anyhow? The actual kinetic function, is it bad for bone health?


Well according to that link I posted it something to do with the joint releaseing gas before it moves. My joints didn't always do that though. I'm starting to think that buying another matress could help the situation. I sleep in a single bunk bed with a spring matress that was bought for like $20 from an op shop. The matress before that was one I had since I was a kid. So I'm wondering if going out and buying a really comfortable matress would help the situation.

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#4 Matt

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 11:04 AM

I used to get that a lot for about 6 months, happened after I got food poison and it was 'reactive arthritis' for me. All gone now... but Vitamin D3 5000IU helped a lot

#5 lucid

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 06:08 PM

Your bones 2 primary mechanisms to keep bone from touching bone:
The primary mechanism is the cartilage buffer at the end of bones.
The secondary mechanism is the synovial fluid which rests in a membrane surrounding joints. This serves to keep the cartilage healthy as well as to *edit*lubricate*edit* it.

The cracking sound is usually from the synovial fluid cavitating as the bones are pulled apart. This is pretty benign.

Creaking is s different phenomenon. This is usually bone grinding on bone which = bad. First step: I would avoid what ever activity caused the creaking. Secondly I may look at some physical therapy you could do that may help if it continues re-occurring.

Glucosamine is used by the body to rebuild connective tissue, however though there have been plenty of trials testing it: none I have seen show that it actually helps.

You should check with a Dr to see if you may have Osteoarthritis. If so I would try to get it undercontrol before you would ever have to think about surgery.
http://orthoinfo.aao...fm?topic=A00227

Edited by lucid, 22 January 2008 - 08:35 PM.


#6 sentinel

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 06:45 PM

Your bones 2 primary mechanisms to keep bone from touching bone:
The primary mechanism is the cartilage buffer at the end of bones.
The secondary mechanism is the synovial fluid which rests in a membrane surrounding joints. This serves to keep the cartilage healthy as well as to nourish it.

The cracking sound is usually from the synovial fluid cavitating as the bones are pulled apart. This is pretty benign.

Creaking is s different phenomenon. This is usually bone grinding on bone which = bad. First step: I would avoid what ever activity caused the creaking. Secondly I may look at some physical therapy you could do that may help if it continues re-occurring.

Glucosamine is used by the body to rebuild connective tissue, however though there have been plenty of trials testing it: none I have seen show that it actually helps.

You should check with a Dr to see if you may have Osteoarthritis. If so I would try to get it undercontrol before you would ever have to think about surgery.
http://orthoinfo.aao...fm?topic=A00227


Hi Caston

My joints have popped and clicked for as long as I remember (well Certainly since I was 10or so) that's knees, elbows spine the lot. I have developer arthritis (I'm 38) bu tlike most some its hurt from time to time so I supplement with whatever has a reasonable body of evidence behind it. ie Glucosamine, Hyaluronic Acid, MSM, Fish Oil and Cissus Quadrangularis
Cissus is probably the most "out there" bu there is soooo much anecdotal evidence there has to be something beneficial there. Fish oil definitely helps the dry ache I get in some joint (elbow etc) and my rotary cuff an djust general stiffness bu tI also find that choosing a high EPA ration has LESS anti-inflammatory benefit so more of a 50/50 EPA/DHA worked best for me (and it's cheaper!).
Your problem sounds more like low synovial fluid than cartilage (which would hurt) but low synovial WILL lead to damaged cartilage in time. I'd look more to your diet than your bed. You're now going to get sore elbows from bed so save your money. Get it checked out by a pro then either change your diet to make sure your getting the balance of nutrients you need to ensure bone and joint health FOR YOU, then if necessary supplement with Glucosimine, and Hyaluronic acid (forms synovial fluid) to fast track you back to normal levels.

Good luck

Sentinel

Edited by sentinel, 22 January 2008 - 06:50 PM.


#7 kevin

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 07:02 AM

In the last 4 months or so the amount of bone creaking has greatly increased. I don't feel any pain but it is very annoying. It seems to be mainly my knees/ elbows creaking. I have lost a lot of weight, been taking d3 and sleeping on a different (albeit cheap) matress and working in tech support which involves sitting in a chair for most of the shift.

Any ideas?

edit: I found a lot more info on google when I searched on "joint creaking" rather than "bone creaking"

Here is one such link: http://www.livescien...ints_crack.html

It might be okay but it makes me "feel older" and that isn't good in my book.



Welcome to the wonderful world of noticable biological deterioration!! ... a few creaks?! There's much much MUCH more interesting fun to come..

I would go to the gym and do some stability exercises to keep the small muscles holding your joint together tighter. It works for me.. but don't sweat a few snaps and pops.. use them as incentive to stay in shape and as a reminder of what others are going through much more severely..

#8 caston

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 07:37 AM

Thanks guys, Tim, Mat, Sentinel, Lucid, Kevin.

I bought some glucoamine sulfide for my dad but now I will start taking it myself. I'll take some every day and see what it does. As for other supplements I have some msm so will start taking that again.

I found this article as well. You guys are right it all seems to be about synovial fluid if I can just keep my joints in good order and my vascular system in top shape then i'm doing things right.

BTW I've thought about it some more and it's not just my knees and elbows... it happens in most of my joints I would say for instance when I do shoulder dumbbell exercies I hear the creak when coming back down.

http://www.virtualpa....asp?artid=9512

Edited by caston, 26 January 2008 - 07:47 AM.


#9 caston

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 12:48 AM

It was an antivirual supplement I was taking called Oliviral that contained many things including dried yeast. I think it was causing inflammation. On one part i'm glad to have finally found out what caused
this so I can never take it again. On the other part i'm angry at myself for being so stupid and not researching stuff enough and i'm worried that there has been increased age related damage to my other organs.

#10 zoolander

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 01:04 AM

Kevin I think you have your finger on the pulse re. stability. Instability, where the joint falls out of line, can cause cracking when the tendons (well muscles actually) pull the joint back into into normal range of motion

#11 zoolander

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 01:12 AM

Mitkat....can you please reconsider your use of the chiropractor? Hang on don't answer.....I'll touch your wrist and tell you what you're thinking by the amount of pressure you apply against me......no seriously......please reconsider Mit

#12 mitkat

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 02:57 AM

Mitkat....can you please reconsider your use of the chiropractor? Hang on don't answer.....I'll touch your wrist and tell you what you're thinking by the amount of pressure you apply against me......no seriously......please reconsider Mit


I'd be throwing any of my feminist beliefs out the window by telling you I go because she's hot.

Seriously though (well, MOAR seriously), my chiropractor is another tool in my health care arsenal. I apply scrutiny to all of what she says, as with all medical professionals, and she has helped me out a lot with some post-trauma mobility issues after my infamous longboard dive last summer.

I just found out my new work has me covered for seeing an osteopath :-D ....I think you know I have to go at least once.

Edited by mitkat, 28 March 2008 - 02:59 AM.
osteopath!! it's gonna be a gong show


#13 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 04:44 AM

Hey, Chiropractors know how to open up channels of energy flow which cause stimulation, I had the very odd experience of an orgasm at a woman chiropractor once. I was not attracted to her, it was purely the manipulation that caused it. Very interesting though-- I started reading about new exercises after that to affect the same pathways on my own.

My mother only sees Osteopaths, I've been to a few with her--they do generally have a broad knowledge of Western and Easter medicine, which is nice.

On topic: I had bone creaking as a child--I'm tall and lanky, I was 5' 10'' at age 16--I grew a ton from age 12-16, apox. 2 inches a year. One thing I've noticed is that when I'm highly active physically I do not have the same amount of bone creaking, as when I'm less physically active. My pre-teen and teen years of horseback riding, basketball, track, backpacking--I remember as being 'quiet'. But, I became less active in my child bearing time (early 20's) and the creaking/clicking came back. When I started exercising and doing CR at age 25, I noticed the reduction in creaking, clicking and popping. Last year at age 31 I went through a move, I lived in an apartment for a while--and did not get regular exercise in--since I was a single mother with three children. I simply didn't get the time, my youngest was not yet in school. This past year, being in a house again with a treadmill, I increased my activity--reading and walking uphill daily. I was acutely aware of any popping my bones made, when I was with my new husband (hey I'm a girl!) I'm sure he didn't notice, or care-- but I did. I was happy to see again over the year that as my activity level went up, doing 3 miles at least each day, with 5 as my goal, and sometimes up to 7 or 9--again my creaking and popping went down. The past 2 months, I've been in some of the best shape of my life--I've started intensive training (weights, lunges, group sessions) to be a rollergirl (I'm now officially CryoGirl :-D ) and I love how quiet my body is :p Gives me confidence in the bedroom... (ok not that I need that, when I drool over my guy anyway!--but I still get those 'body image' things that seem to be indicative to a lot of females in our culture)

So I sort of developed over time a theory that increased exercise helps clear the gas, strengthens the muscles, keeps things lubricated. It could be that the times I 'click, creak and pop' I simply go longer before moving vs. moving most of the day.

As an aside, if you are purchasing a new mattress--I love the adjustable air mattresses since you can have it super soft, medium or hard--however you like it. If I'm sore from a hard workout, I seem less sore in the morning after I sleep on a very soft mattress--I'm not sure if it has to do the with the pressure points, or with my sleep simply being deeper and more effective in healing--I'd guess it is the latter.

So take your fish oil/healthy fats, increase your exercise, add in weight bearing, some fast muscle twitch work, and try a softer sleeping surface :)

#14 zoolander

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 09:32 AM

From my experiance, the chiropractor's that I visited have had a very narrow view on such a complex system. Sublux sublux sublux

#15 caston

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 12:39 PM

thanks guys. Yeah i'm going to try to completely elimate all breads, pastries and especially yeast products from my diet.

Also best to avoid grainfed meats and the like.

Of course we can go insane with this and work out what fertilisers create the most or least inflammatory crops.

I also found this article quite interesting:

http://www.jonbarron.../09-01-2005.php

Edited by caston, 28 March 2008 - 01:22 PM.


#16 zoolander

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 01:40 PM

Caston, by all means eliminate these from your diet but see where it takes you. It may have nothing to do with your diet but at the same time it may also be your diet.

#17 zoolander

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 01:43 PM

Shannon, I really enjoy reading your honest and open examples of things that have happened in your life. I also enjoy reading how these life experiances have molded you as a person as well.

Thank you

#18 caston

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 04:16 PM

Zoolander: I'm 99.9% sure it was the yeast in the oliviral that has caused it. I noticed a small amount of candida and so I took one of the oliviral caps a day for nearly a week just when my birthday was coming up and then closely after that the joint clicking got really bad and I felt really uncoordinated.


I've also been thinking about taking walnut oil. I read an article that walnuts are very anti-inflammatory and I try to eat them about 3 times a week.

Here is the article:

http://nutraingredie...s...;n=dh314&c=

Edited by caston, 29 March 2008 - 03:59 AM.


#19 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 05:28 AM

Thanks Zoolander, feedback is always nice. I loved reading history as a child, and figured that my life should be an open book--and at age 18 or so adopted a policy of honesty--course I've flirted with the line, of 'overly honest' more than once. My husband now, thought either I was 'refreshingly honest' when he met me on match.com, or (but he didn't say this in his introductory email--'crazy') thankfully, he went on a date, and was hooked! He realized I was honest and intelligent. But life, at age 32 for me--is not played out, I have much to write :)

I have followed yeast reductions diets before. (If you have A, B, or AB blood you are more likely to get a yeast infection--I am A-duNeg Anti-C, Rh Prime). It is something interesting to note, that when I'm on CR, I'm taking no processed sugar and hardly any natural sugars. For some reason, when I'm doing intense exercise (5 miles a day, plus weights, sprints and such) I not only 'restrict' sugar, I absolutely do not crave it, actually the only 'cravings' I notice are for sodium, which I try to oblige in the most natural forms possible--I.E. through my food in a natural state, or with low amounts of mineral laden sea salt. I feel that these cravings probably are to reduce muscle cramping--I noticed if I've done extreme CR (18 hours no food) and I'm exercising (say 5 miles) then when I sleep I'll have problems with leg cramps. I try to avoid this :~ I've read this can be due to low sodium. That is an aside, my point is that the times I've been athletic and my bones have been 'quiet' I've craved more salts, than sugars--having lower sugar, reduces yeast--so there could be a correlation. This is in retrospect, looking at my own past and patterns--but I've also heard that about yeast causing problems with inflammation and joint noise, and it makes sense.

I eat raw walnuts every day, even if I fast all day--I have them with my main meal of veggies and meat. I have started them up more, the last year as well, so it is hard to say what has made my bones quiet. I'm enjoying it though--and hope to not have revisits of the creaking and popping as I age--if I do it will be a loud message to change what I'm doing :~

#20 ajnast4r

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 01:17 AM

From my experiance, the chiropractor's that I visited have had a very narrow view on such a complex system. Sublux sublux sublux



you need to find a better chiro.. they arent all quacks. my chiro is a solid, science oriented individual and has helped me IMMENSELY with my back over the years... not just through adjustments but through teaching me how to strengthen my core & stretch properly.

although today, i did try to talk a lady out of giving her 3 year old son black wallnut because her chiro used kinesthesiology to 'test if it was ok for his system'




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