12 replies to this topic

[Magus]

Hello Guys and gals

I have a question in which I am seeking answers for and believe that the members of this forum will be able to assist me with great efficiency. I have been taking Ginkoba and 5HTP for 4 years now.(Ginkoba 3 x a day and 5HTP 1 before bed) with stellar results. I recently just ordered the following supplements:

* Alpha GPC
* Omega-3
* UN Idebenone 90mg
* UN Piracetam 800mg
* Selepryl 12 ml

Now my main question is this: is it safe to be taking the recommended dosage of all the above supplements along with the Ginkoba and 5HTP that I have been taking? Are there any possible side affects? Would there be any adverse reactions of taking all the above together? I would like to hear the advice from the members of this forum. Please note that I do not exercise as much as I should be and have done much much research in regards to Nootropics, have come across the forum and really believe that I can trust the honest advice being given here.

Edited by Magus, 23 January 2008 - 10:57 PM.

[mentatpsi]

Hello Guys and gals

I have a question in which I am seeking answers for and believe that the members of this forum will be able to assist me with great efficiency. I have been taking Ginkoba and 5HTP for 4 years now.(Ginkoba 3 x a day and 5HTP 1 before bed) with stellar results. I recently just ordered the following supplements:

* Alpha GPC
* Omega-3
* UN Idebenone 90mg
* UN Piracetam 800mg
* Selepryl 12 ml

Now my main question is this: is it safe to be taking the recommended dosage of all the above supplements along with the Ginkoba and 5HTP that I have been taking? Are there any possible side affects? Would there be any adverse reactions of taking all the above together? I would like to hear the advice from the members of this forum. Please note that I do not exercise as much as I should be and have done much much research in regards to Nootropics, have come across the forum and really believe that I can trust the honest advice being given here.

Just a few questions that might help things along :

Gingko 3x being 50 mg or 60 mg each?

Are you taking 5-HTP for depression or insomnia? Also what dosage
If depression, the selepyrl might suffice since it's showing good results as far as improving symptoms.

Try to find a good ratio of Piracetam and Alpha GPC first before getting into Deprenyl/Selepyrl this way it allows you to gauge with higher accuracy what's doing what... introduce them maybe within a week separation (or at least not together) Piracetam is a strange enhancer a bit more complex than the simple pop and enhance, more trial and error is involved.

Are you taking Idebenone for its antioxidant qualities or for another purpose?

Best of luck.

[yoyo]

I might be slightly worried about risk of serotonin syndrome if the selegeline dose is high enough. At any rate i think Inositol is preferable to 5htp.

[mentatpsi]

I might be slightly worried about risk of serotonin syndrome if the selegeline dose is high enough. At any rate i think Inositol is preferable to 5htp.

i wasn't aware selegine impacts serotonin, i thought the anti depressive quality was due to its maoi quality... if this is the case wouldn't it hypothetically synergize with piracetam.... probably has been done

[yoyo]

at low doses its is selective for MAO-B. at higher doses it is a general MAOI so it increases serotonin through MAO-A inhibition.

[Magus]

Hello Guys and gals

I have a question in which I am seeking answers for and believe that the members of this forum will be able to assist me with great efficiency. I have been taking Ginkoba and 5HTP for 4 years now.(Ginkoba 3 x a day and 5HTP 1 before bed) with stellar results. I recently just ordered the following supplements:

* Alpha GPC
* Omega-3
* UN Idebenone 90mg
* UN Piracetam 800mg
* Selepryl 12 ml

Now my main question is this: is it safe to be taking the recommended dosage of all the above supplements along with the Ginkoba and 5HTP that I have been taking? Are there any possible side affects? Would there be any adverse reactions of taking all the above together? I would like to hear the advice from the members of this forum. Please note that I do not exercise as much as I should be and have done much much research in regards to Nootropics, have come across the forum and really believe that I can trust the honest advice being given here.

Just a few questions that might help things along :

Gingko 3x being 50 mg or 60 mg each?

Are you taking 5-HTP for depression or insomnia? Also what dosage
If depression, the selepyrl might suffice since it's showing good results as far as improving symptoms.

Try to find a good ratio of Piracetam and Alpha GPC first before getting into Deprenyl/Selepyrl this way it allows you to gauge with higher accuracy what's doing what... introduce them maybe within a week separation (or at least not together) Piracetam is a strange enhancer a bit more complex than the simple pop and enhance, more trial and error is involved.

Are you taking Idebenone for its antioxidant qualities or for another purpose?

Best of luck.

Hello Mysticpsi,

I would like to start off by thanking you for your response. Here are the answers to your questions:

* Ginkoba 40 mg each.
* 5HTP for stress at work 150 mg
* Im not sure if it's depression that I have, but I am feeling loss of motivation at times, easy stress and loss of interest.

Just to let you know that I have received and taken some of the Alpha GPC and Omega 3 along with my regular cocktail (Ginkoba+5HTP) and have been feeling anxiety all day and cloudy. Do you have any advice on this?

TIA

edit: I am worried that by taking all of the rest will give me a worse affect, to add one more question: which of the 2 new additions that I have received so far are causing these affects? the Omega3 or the Alpha GPC? (I did not even take the full recommended dosage)

Edited by Magus, 24 January 2008 - 04:45 PM.

[mentatpsi]

Hello Guys and gals

I have a question in which I am seeking answers for and believe that the members of this forum will be able to assist me with great efficiency. I have been taking Ginkoba and 5HTP for 4 years now.(Ginkoba 3 x a day and 5HTP 1 before bed) with stellar results. I recently just ordered the following supplements:

* Alpha GPC
* Omega-3
* UN Idebenone 90mg
* UN Piracetam 800mg
* Selepryl 12 ml

Now my main question is this: is it safe to be taking the recommended dosage of all the above supplements along with the Ginkoba and 5HTP that I have been taking? Are there any possible side affects? Would there be any adverse reactions of taking all the above together? I would like to hear the advice from the members of this forum. Please note that I do not exercise as much as I should be and have done much much research in regards to Nootropics, have come across the forum and really believe that I can trust the honest advice being given here.

Just a few questions that might help things along :

Gingko 3x being 50 mg or 60 mg each?

Are you taking 5-HTP for depression or insomnia? Also what dosage
If depression, the selepyrl might suffice since it's showing good results as far as improving symptoms.

Try to find a good ratio of Piracetam and Alpha GPC first before getting into Deprenyl/Selepyrl this way it allows you to gauge with higher accuracy what's doing what... introduce them maybe within a week separation (or at least not together) Piracetam is a strange enhancer a bit more complex than the simple pop and enhance, more trial and error is involved.

Are you taking Idebenone for its antioxidant qualities or for another purpose?

Best of luck.

Hello Mysticpsi,

I would like to start off by thanking you for your response. Here are the answers to your questions:

* Ginkoba 40 mg each.
* 5HTP for stress at work 150 mg
* Im not sure if it's depression that I have, but I am feeling loss of motivation at times, easy stress and loss of interest.

Just to let you know that I have received and taken some of the Alpha GPC and Omega 3 along with my regular cocktail (Ginkoba+5HTP) and have been feeling anxiety all day and cloudy. Do you have any advice on this?

TIA

edit: I am worried that by taking all of the rest will give me a worse affect, to add one more question: which of the 2 new additions that I have received so far are causing these affects? the Omega3 or the Alpha GPC? (I did not even take the full recommended dosage)

I had similar effects on alpha GPC, i always thought it was just in relation to a conditioning that could have occurred as far as the combination of GPC and Piracetam, but it's likely it was because of just GPC alone... I have found Lecithin to be far more fruitful in that realm, increasing both memory and learning time (and cheaper). The anxiety is also related to Alpha GPC, any ACh precursor i think will do that. You should really look into bacopa, it has some calming effects as well as enhancing both memory and learning retention.

Bare in mind (i'm not trying to turn you away from piracetam but just a side note on it) that upon taking pir, it is necessary to find a good ratio of Piracetam to ACh supplementation. It's good you're going to be taking only 800 mg this should allow you to find a good ratio. If the ratio of Piracetam to ACh supplement exceeds a certain value you might just feel depressed and run down, and more spacey. You won't notice it for maybe less than a week since it will either be depleting your reserves or you will be fine but make sure to note any changes. Nothing to really worry about just trial and error. You'll find a lot of information on this forum and everyone's really helpful so you should be fine, just do everything as objectively and organized as possible. All of this is really like another project in life entirely, but always fun.

If you take the piracetam with the 5HTP, it should synergize well, making the 5HTP stronger. Thereby needing less anyways. Not sure if upon that note you should reduce it, not sure of any risks there, does someone else know? The 5HTP looks a bit high if you're going to combine it with the deprenyl in accordance with what yoyo said so you should probably reduce it when you get the chance and feel comfortable.

I have to get going to class and will write more, but best of luck

[zoolander]

First of all

I have a question in which I am seeking answers for and believe that the members of this forum will be able to assist me with great efficiency. I have been taking Ginkoba and 5HTP for 4 years now.(Ginkoba 3 x a day and 5HTP 1 before bed) with stellar results. I recently just ordered the following supplements:

* Alpha GPC
* Omega-3
* UN Idebenone 90mg
* UN Piracetam 800mg
* Selepryl 12 ml

What are your dosages for Alpha GPC, Omega-3 and important the liquid selepryl? The dose of selepryl will be more than likely be determined by your age. So how old are you? Male or female?

I'll give some recommendations on the others

1. Alpha-GPC should be in the realm of 600mg (if your taking a 50% powder then 1000-1200mg)

2. If you going for an overall increase in memory then I would add a few other compounds to round it off.
Alpha-GPC is the probably the most bioavailable choline donor
Add acetyl-L-Carnitine (1-2g/day) as it's an acetyl donor
Add Huperzine A (200mcg/day) as it's an effective cholinesterase inhibitor

The above aims to maximise acetylcholine neurotrasmission

3. Omega-3 fatty acids you should be taking anywhere from 1200-3600mg per day (EPA 700-2100mg, DHA 500-1500mg) in divided dosages

4. Read the instructions inside the pack for selepryl. You shouldn't really be taking more than 1mg/day unless your over 50

* Ginkoba 40 mg each.
* 5HTP for stress at work 150 mg
* Im not sure if it's depression that I have, but I am feeling loss of motivation at times, easy stress and loss of interest.

Just to let you know that I have received and taken some of the Alpha GPC and Omega 3 along with my regular cocktail (Ginkoba+5HTP) and have been feeling anxiety all day and cloudy. Do you have any advice on this?

Anxiety Huh? Have you started taking the selepryl yet? I wouldn't be pointing the finger at alpha-GPC if you had. Selepryl is a MAOI that potentiates the effects of catecholamines. The cloudiness may be related to you being scattered. Overstimulation can result in a vague sort of scattered feeling.

I had similar effects on alpha GPC, i always thought it was just in relation to a conditioning that could have occurred as far as the combination of GPC and Piracetam, but it's likely it was because of just GPC alone... I have found Lecithin to be far more fruitful in that realm, increasing both memory and learning time (and cheaper). The anxiety is also related to Alpha GPC, any ACh precursor i think will do that. You should really look into bacopa, it has some calming effects as well as enhancing both memory and learning retention.

Most of the research on choline donors points toward either GPC or citicholine (CDP-choline) for their greater bioavailability.

I won't disagree with what you have said about bacopa but there isn't a great body evidence for what you have said. Magus you mentioned that you take 5-HTP for stress at work. Have you considered an adaptogen such as rhodiola or ashwagandha. These are both very effective adaptogens that will help you deal with both psychological and physiological stresses. There is a fairly substantial body of evidence backing both of these adaptogens.

[Magus]

Hello Guys and gals

I have a question in which I am seeking answers for and believe that the members of this forum will be able to assist me with great efficiency. I have been taking Ginkoba and 5HTP for 4 years now.(Ginkoba 3 x a day and 5HTP 1 before bed) with stellar results. I recently just ordered the following supplements:

* Alpha GPC
* Omega-3
* UN Idebenone 90mg
* UN Piracetam 800mg
* Selepryl 12 ml

Now my main question is this: is it safe to be taking the recommended dosage of all the above supplements along with the Ginkoba and 5HTP that I have been taking? Are there any possible side affects? Would there be any adverse reactions of taking all the above together? I would like to hear the advice from the members of this forum. Please note that I do not exercise as much as I should be and have done much much research in regards to Nootropics, have come across the forum and really believe that I can trust the honest advice being given here.

Just a few questions that might help things along :

Gingko 3x being 50 mg or 60 mg each?

Are you taking 5-HTP for depression or insomnia? Also what dosage
If depression, the selepyrl might suffice since it's showing good results as far as improving symptoms.

Try to find a good ratio of Piracetam and Alpha GPC first before getting into Deprenyl/Selepyrl this way it allows you to gauge with higher accuracy what's doing what... introduce them maybe within a week separation (or at least not together) Piracetam is a strange enhancer a bit more complex than the simple pop and enhance, more trial and error is involved.

Are you taking Idebenone for its antioxidant qualities or for another purpose?

Best of luck.

Hello Mysticpsi,

I would like to start off by thanking you for your response. Here are the answers to your questions:

* Ginkoba 40 mg each.
* 5HTP for stress at work 150 mg
* Im not sure if it's depression that I have, but I am feeling loss of motivation at times, easy stress and loss of interest.

Just to let you know that I have received and taken some of the Alpha GPC and Omega 3 along with my regular cocktail (Ginkoba+5HTP) and have been feeling anxiety all day and cloudy. Do you have any advice on this?

TIA

edit: I am worried that by taking all of the rest will give me a worse affect, to add one more question: which of the 2 new additions that I have received so far are causing these affects? the Omega3 or the Alpha GPC? (I did not even take the full recommended dosage)

I had similar effects on alpha GPC, i always thought it was just in relation to a conditioning that could have occurred as far as the combination of GPC and Piracetam, but it's likely it was because of just GPC alone... I have found Lecithin to be far more fruitful in that realm, increasing both memory and learning time (and cheaper). The anxiety is also related to Alpha GPC, any ACh precursor i think will do that. You should really look into bacopa, it has some calming effects as well as enhancing both memory and learning retention.

Bare in mind (i'm not trying to turn you away from piracetam but just a side note on it) that upon taking pir, it is necessary to find a good ratio of Piracetam to ACh supplementation. It's good you're going to be taking only 800 mg this should allow you to find a good ratio. If the ratio of Piracetam to ACh supplement exceeds a certain value you might just feel depressed and run down, and more spacey. You won't notice it for maybe less than a week since it will either be depleting your reserves or you will be fine but make sure to note any changes. Nothing to really worry about just trial and error. You'll find a lot of information on this forum and everyone's really helpful so you should be fine, just do everything as objectively and organized as possible. All of this is really like another project in life entirely, but always fun.

If you take the piracetam with the 5HTP, it should synergize well, making the 5HTP stronger. Thereby needing less anyways. Not sure if upon that note you should reduce it, not sure of any risks there, does someone else know? The 5HTP looks a bit high if you're going to combine it with the deprenyl in accordance with what yoyo said so you should probably reduce it when you get the chance and feel comfortable.

I have to get going to class and will write more, but best of luck

mysticpsi,

Thank you for all your help. Taking into consideration all that you have told me has given me a more positive outlook on my new "project" in life. I have one more question: You mentioned that i look into the bacopa herb. Would I replace the Alpha GPC with the Bacopa supplement, eliminating the GPC entirely? By doing so, would I lose the nasty anxiety which I have been feeling from the Alpha GPC?

I also wanted your opinion on meals? Would eating more food throughout the day lesen the effects of the Alpha GPC?

Thanks for your output and recommendations as you have been a real help!

TIA

[Magus]

Hello Guys and gals

I have a question in which I am seeking answers for and believe that the members of this forum will be able to assist me with great efficiency. I have been taking Ginkoba and 5HTP for 4 years now.(Ginkoba 3 x a day and 5HTP 1 before bed) with stellar results. I recently just ordered the following supplements:

* Alpha GPC
* Omega-3
* UN Idebenone 90mg
* UN Piracetam 800mg
* Selepryl 12 ml

Now my main question is this: is it safe to be taking the recommended dosage of all the above supplements along with the Ginkoba and 5HTP that I have been taking? Are there any possible side affects? Would there be any adverse reactions of taking all the above together? I would like to hear the advice from the members of this forum. Please note that I do not exercise as much as I should be and have done much much research in regards to Nootropics, have come across the forum and really believe that I can trust the honest advice being given here.

Just a few questions that might help things along :

Gingko 3x being 50 mg or 60 mg each?

Are you taking 5-HTP for depression or insomnia? Also what dosage
If depression, the selepyrl might suffice since it's showing good results as far as improving symptoms.

Try to find a good ratio of Piracetam and Alpha GPC first before getting into Deprenyl/Selepyrl this way it allows you to gauge with higher accuracy what's doing what... introduce them maybe within a week separation (or at least not together) Piracetam is a strange enhancer a bit more complex than the simple pop and enhance, more trial and error is involved.

Are you taking Idebenone for its antioxidant qualities or for another purpose?

Best of luck.

Hello Mysticpsi,

I would like to start off by thanking you for your response. Here are the answers to your questions:

* Ginkoba 40 mg each.
* 5HTP for stress at work 150 mg
* Im not sure if it's depression that I have, but I am feeling loss of motivation at times, easy stress and loss of interest.

Just to let you know that I have received and taken some of the Alpha GPC and Omega 3 along with my regular cocktail (Ginkoba+5HTP) and have been feeling anxiety all day and cloudy. Do you have any advice on this?

TIA

edit: I am worried that by taking all of the rest will give me a worse affect, to add one more question: which of the 2 new additions that I have received so far are causing these affects? the Omega3 or the Alpha GPC? (I did not even take the full recommended dosage)

I had similar effects on alpha GPC, i always thought it was just in relation to a conditioning that could have occurred as far as the combination of GPC and Piracetam, but it's likely it was because of just GPC alone... I have found Lecithin to be far more fruitful in that realm, increasing both memory and learning time (and cheaper). The anxiety is also related to Alpha GPC, any ACh precursor i think will do that. You should really look into bacopa, it has some calming effects as well as enhancing both memory and learning retention.

Bare in mind (i'm not trying to turn you away from piracetam but just a side note on it) that upon taking pir, it is necessary to find a good ratio of Piracetam to ACh supplementation. It's good you're going to be taking only 800 mg this should allow you to find a good ratio. If the ratio of Piracetam to ACh supplement exceeds a certain value you might just feel depressed and run down, and more spacey. You won't notice it for maybe less than a week since it will either be depleting your reserves or you will be fine but make sure to note any changes. Nothing to really worry about just trial and error. You'll find a lot of information on this forum and everyone's really helpful so you should be fine, just do everything as objectively and organized as possible. All of this is really like another project in life entirely, but always fun.

If you take the piracetam with the 5HTP, it should synergize well, making the 5HTP stronger. Thereby needing less anyways. Not sure if upon that note you should reduce it, not sure of any risks there, does someone else know? The 5HTP looks a bit high if you're going to combine it with the deprenyl in accordance with what yoyo said so you should probably reduce it when you get the chance and feel comfortable.

I have to get going to class and will write more, but best of luck

mysticpsi,

Thank you for all your help. Taking into consideration all that you have told me has given me a more positive outlook on my new "project" in life. I have one more question: You mentioned that i look into the bacopa herb. Would I replace the Alpha GPC with the Bacopa supplement, eliminating the GPC entirely? By doing so, would I lose the nasty anxiety which I have been feeling from the Alpha GPC?

I also wanted your opinion on meals? Would eating more food throughout the day lesen the effects of the Alpha GPC?

Thanks for your output and recommendations as you have been a real help!

TIA

edit: you mentioned Lecithin, would I take Lecithin instead of taking the Piracetam+GPC ? Sorry for all my questions, I just want to make sure that I understand this completely.

[mentatpsi]

no no... questions are always good, especially in an area involving so many issues...

I wasn't very clear with most of my advice...

bacopa extract could serve as either an addition or a replacement to the combination of piracetam and ach supplement (lecithin, alpha gpc, choline bitarate, etc) in the situation you don't like it. Research:

Antioxidant activity of Bacopa monniera in rat frontal cortex, striatum and hippocampus
The effect of a standardized extract of Bacopa monniera Linn. was assessed on rat brain frontal cortical, striatal and hippocampal superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase (CAT) and glutathione peroxidase (GPX) activities, following administration for 7, 14 or 21 days. The effects induced by this extract (bacoside A content 82% ± 0.5%), administered in doses of 5 and 10 mg/kg, orally, were compared with the effects induced by (-) deprenyl (2 mg/kg, p. o.) administered for the same time periods. Bacopa monniera (BM) induced a dose-related increase in SOD, CAT and GPX activities, in all the brain regions investigated, after 14 and 21 days of drug administration. On the contrary, deprenyl induced an increase in SOD, CAT and GPX activities in the frontal cortex and striatum, but not in the hippocampus, after treatment for 14 or 21 days. The results suggest that BM, like deprenyl, exhibits a significant antioxidant effect after subchronic administration which, unlike the latter, extends to the hippocampus as well. The results suggest that the increase in oxidative free radical scavenging activity by BM may explain, at least in part, the cognition- facilitating action of BM, recorded in Ayurvedic texts, and demonstrated experimentally and clinically.
http://www3.intersci...n...=1&SRETRY=0

The chronic effects of an extract of Bacopa monniera (Brahmi) on cognitive function in healthy human subjects
Rationale: Extracts of Bacopa monniera have been reported to exert cognitive enhancing effects in animals. However, the effects on human cognition are inconclusive. Objective: The current study examined the chronic effects of an extract of B. monniera (Keenmind) on cognitive function in healthy human subjects. Methods: The study was a double-blind placebo-controlled independent-group design in which subjects were randomly allocated to one of two treatment conditions, B. monniera (300 mg) or placebo. Neuropsychological testing was conducted pre-(baseline) and at 5 and 12 weeks post drug administration. Results: B. monniera significantly improved speed of visual information processing measured by the IT task, learning rate and memory consolidation measured by the AVLT (P<0.05), and state anxiety (P<0.001) compared to placebo, with maximal effects evident after 12 weeks.

Conclusions: These findings suggest that B. monniera may improve higher order cognitive processes that are critically dependent on the input of information from our environment such as learning and memory.
http://www.springerl...yrwct38enavc88/

It's really good stuff and relatively cheap.

Piracetam requires a certain amount of a ACh supplementation in order to work properly, it won't work efficiently and might even be counter productive if not taken with one. I've seen people recommending a ratio of 800 mg Piracetam to ~5 g of lecithin. As far as Alpha GPC, i believe it's 800 mg piracetam to ~1 g Alpha GPC. You'll get different effects with Piracetam with Alpha GPC or Lecithin as compared to Alpha GPC/Lecithin by itself. Zoolander probably knows more about it than i do since i couldn't find an optimal dosage of Piracetam with Alpha GPC or Lecithin.

Good luck.

Edited by mysticpsi, 24 January 2008 - 10:11 PM.

[Magus]

no no... questions are always good, especially in an area involving so many issues...

I wasn't very clear with most of my advice...

bacopa extract could serve as either an addition or a replacement to the combination of piracetam and ach supplement (lecithin, alpha gpc, choline bitarate, etc) in the situation you don't like it. Research:

Antioxidant activity of Bacopa monniera in rat frontal cortex, striatum and hippocampus
The effect of a standardized extract of Bacopa monniera Linn. was assessed on rat brain frontal cortical, striatal and hippocampal superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase (CAT) and glutathione peroxidase (GPX) activities, following administration for 7, 14 or 21 days. The effects induced by this extract (bacoside A content 82% ± 0.5%), administered in doses of 5 and 10 mg/kg, orally, were compared with the effects induced by (-) deprenyl (2 mg/kg, p. o.) administered for the same time periods. Bacopa monniera (BM) induced a dose-related increase in SOD, CAT and GPX activities, in all the brain regions investigated, after 14 and 21 days of drug administration. On the contrary, deprenyl induced an increase in SOD, CAT and GPX activities in the frontal cortex and striatum, but not in the hippocampus, after treatment for 14 or 21 days. The results suggest that BM, like deprenyl, exhibits a significant antioxidant effect after subchronic administration which, unlike the latter, extends to the hippocampus as well. The results suggest that the increase in oxidative free radical scavenging activity by BM may explain, at least in part, the cognition- facilitating action of BM, recorded in Ayurvedic texts, and demonstrated experimentally and clinically.
http://www3.intersci...n...=1&SRETRY=0

The chronic effects of an extract of Bacopa monniera (Brahmi) on cognitive function in healthy human subjects
Rationale: Extracts of Bacopa monniera have been reported to exert cognitive enhancing effects in animals. However, the effects on human cognition are inconclusive. Objective: The current study examined the chronic effects of an extract of B. monniera (Keenmind) on cognitive function in healthy human subjects. Methods: The study was a double-blind placebo-controlled independent-group design in which subjects were randomly allocated to one of two treatment conditions, B. monniera (300 mg) or placebo. Neuropsychological testing was conducted pre-(baseline) and at 5 and 12 weeks post drug administration. Results: B. monniera significantly improved speed of visual information processing measured by the IT task, learning rate and memory consolidation measured by the AVLT (P<0.05), and state anxiety (P<0.001) compared to placebo, with maximal effects evident after 12 weeks.

Conclusions: These findings suggest that B. monniera may improve higher order cognitive processes that are critically dependent on the input of information from our environment such as learning and memory.
http://www.springerl...yrwct38enavc88/

It's really good stuff and relatively cheap.

Piracetam requires a certain amount of a ACh supplementation in order to work properly, it won't work efficiently and might even be counter productive if not taken with one. I've seen people recommending a ratio of 800 mg Piracetam to ~5 g of lecithin. As far as Alpha GPC, i believe it's 800 mg piracetam to ~1 g Alpha GPC. You'll get different effects with Piracetam with Alpha GPC or Lecithin as compared to Alpha GPC/Lecithin by itself. Zoolander probably knows more about it than i do since i couldn't find an optimal dosage of Piracetam with Alpha GPC or Lecithin.

Good luck.

Wow!!! I really appreciate the time and effort that you have taken to help me understand the vast amount of information regarding the steps i should take, summarized into one post. I have done a little more research and will take your advice and return the products that I have purchased and buy the bacopa. Thank you again for your time and effort.

edit: I will let you know the results.

Edited by Magus, 24 January 2008 - 11:33 PM.

[zoolander]

Piracetam requires a certain amount of a ACh supplementation in order to work properly, it won't work efficiently and might even be counter productive if not taken with one.

Most of the stuff floating around discussing the choline and piracetam combo is not based on the research. I've only really seen one research paper that used citicholine (CDP-choline) and piracetam together in a 1:10 ratio. Which brings me to what I was going to recommend. I would recommend 600mg of straight alpha-GPC (or 1200mg 50% alpha-GPC) with 2400mg piracetam (in 3 divided dosages away from meals). I have read that 600mg alpha-GPC is about the same as 250mg of citicholine.

Not too much is know about why piracetam (or other nootropics) + choline work better in synergy. It is thought that piracetam (and other nootropics) alter affect brain choline metabolism by effecting cerebral blood flow/metabolism.

Effects of citicholine and of the combination citicholine + piracetam on the memory (experiments on mice).
Mosharrof AH, Petkov VD.

Institute of Physiology, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences.

The memory effects of citicholine (CCh) and piracetam (Pc) were tested in experiments on mice using the training method with passive avoidance and negative reinforcement (step-through). In single doses of 25, 50, 100 and 500 mg/kg, CCh applied one hour prior to training enhanced to the same degree and statistically significantly the retention of the memory traces in tests both 24 h and 7 days after the training session; Pc in a dose of 500 mg/kg improved the retention in memory tests 24 h after training, but had no significant effect during the tests 7 days after the training. Combined application of CCh and Pc in doses which are ineffective with respect to the memory process (CCh--10 mg/kg and Pc--200 mg/kg) caused a significant enhancement of the retention during the tests both 24 h and 7 days after the training. Scopolamine (2 mg/kg i.p.), applied 30 min prior to the training, manifested a marked amnestic effect during the tests 24 h after the training, but this effect was totally prevented if either CCh in a dose of 50 mg/kg or Pc in a dose of 500 mg/kg were applied before scopolamine. Citicholine in a dose of 100 mg/kg, as well as the combination of 50 mg/kg CCh and 500 mg/kg PC, not only completely prevented the scopolamine-induced amnesia, but they also significantly increased the retention of the memory traces in the scopolamine-treated mice compared with the retention observed in the control animals.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 2392950 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]