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sunscreens recommended


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#1 Eva Victoria

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:01 PM


Unfortunatelly I cannot recommend any sunscreens sold in the US. It is high time that the FDA does something about allowing proper UVA-filters into the US!!! (We have 28 filters in EU, 9 of them are for UVA; the US has 16 filters whereas 2 of them are against UVA: Avobenzone and Zinc Oxide. But Avobenzone is always used together with Octyl Methoxycinnamate (USAN:Octinoxate) which makes it not photo stable :( (Both Avb. and OMC are unstable SS; both alone or together can be stabilized with Tinosorb or Octocrylene).

Conclusion: you just have to order sunscreens from Europe!!! (L`Oreal group can be bought through the internet: Vichy, La Roche-Posay-but not the ones that are av. in the US!!! They lack UVA prot. from 340nm!, Helena Rubinstein, Garnier. These sunscreens are also sold in Canada.)

What to look for on the ingredients label when buying a sunscreen?


Parsol 1789 Butyl methoxy dibenzoylmethane BMDM UVAII-I
Escalol 6300 4-methyl benzylidenecamphor MBC
Mexoryl SX Terephtalylidene dicamphor UVAII
sulfonic acid

TDSA
Mexoryl XL Drometrizole trisiloxane DMTS UVAI
Uvinul N 539 Octocrylene OC
Uvinul T 150 Octyltriazone OT
Titanium dioxide TiO2 UVB-UVAII
Zinc oxide ZnO UVAII-I
Tinosorb® M (USAN Bisoctrizole, INCI Methylene Bis-Benzotriazolyl

Tetramethylbutylphenol) UVAI

Tinosorb® S (USAN Bemotrizinol, INCI Bis-Ethylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl

Triazine) UVAII

Octocrylene

Diethylhexyl Butamido Triazone



The following are the FDA allowable active ingredients in sunscreens:

USA nm max.effect nm

p-Aminobenzoic acid (PABA) up to 15 %. 260-313 283


Avobenzone up to 3%. BMDM 310-400 358

Recently FDA approved:

Mexoryl® SX (USAN Ecamsule, INCI Terephthalylidene Dicamphor Sulfonic Acid) - UVAII absorber used in combination with other ingredients for UVB

Others additionally approved within the EU[ and other parts of the world include:

[/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][*]Mexoryl® XL (INCI Drometrizole Trisiloxane) 290-370 330-350
[*]Neo Heliopan® AP (USAN Bisdisulizole Disodium, INCI Disodium Phenyl Dibenzimidazole Tetrasulfonate)
[*]Uvinul® A Plus (INCI Diethylamino Hydroxybenzoyl Hexyl Benzoate) 352-360 356
[*]Uvinul® T 150 (USAN Octyl Triazone, INCI Ethylhexyl Triazone) 290-320 300-320
[*]Uvasorb® HEB (INCI Diethylhexyl Butamido Triazone)
[*]Parsol® SLX (INCI Polysilicone-15) 310-330 315
[*]Amiloxate (USAN), INCI Isoamyl p-Methoxycinnamate)
[/list] A lot of the ingredients not approved by the FDA are relatively new and developed to absorb UVAII and I.

A good sunscreen is composed of several chemical compounds to be able to achieve full protection against UVB and UVA-rays and to be able to stay photo stable in sunlight!
edited by Matthias: topic title changed to lower case

Edited by Matthias, 08 April 2008 - 05:11 PM.


#2 ajnast4r

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 07:33 PM

http://anthelios.com/
http://www.nucelle.c...companion1a.htm
http://www.laroche-p...F1_SKIN_TYPES_C

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#3 Eva Victoria

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:00 PM

[quote name='ajnast4r' date='4-Feb 2008, 08:33 PM' post='222530']
http://anthelios.com/
Lacks MexorylXL= long UVA protection :(
http://www.nucelle.c...companion1a.htm
Too law concentration of ZnO and ZnO is in micronized form, that makes it a poor UVA scatterer :(
http://www.laroche-p...F1_SKIN_TYPES_C
Lacks MexorylXL= long UVA protection :( PS: The European variant has both MexorylSX + XL filters!!! :)
Below: Link to LRP EU site: "Broad UVB/UVA Ultra* protection thanks to the photostable filtering system containing Mexoryl® SX and XL filters. "
http://www.laroche-p.../_en/index.aspx

Edited by Eva Victoria, 05 February 2008 - 02:01 PM.


#4 woly

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 02:25 PM

so what sunscreen do you recommend?

#5 Eva Victoria

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 06:33 PM

so what sunscreen do you recommend?


None sold in the US I`m afraid. Though you can find sunscreens containing min 20% ZnO/ ZnO+TiO2 (ZnO should be normal particle size or micronized but not under 100microm) would be an excellent full UVA+UVB protector!!! These two physical sunscreens are available in the US!!! (Thank God for that). Though it can be quite whitening on the skin :(

#6 woly

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 01:11 AM

so what sunscreen do you recommend?


None sold in the US I`m afraid. Though you can find sunscreens containing min 20% ZnO/ ZnO+TiO2 (ZnO should be normal particle size or micronized but not under 100microm) would be an excellent full UVA+UVB protector!!! These two physical sunscreens are available in the US!!! (Thank God for that). Though it can be quite whitening on the skin :(


what about outisde of the US? I am in Australia and plan on getting it off the net anyways.

#7 niner

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 04:37 AM

so what sunscreen do you recommend?


None sold in the US I`m afraid. Though you can find sunscreens containing min 20% ZnO/ ZnO+TiO2 (ZnO should be normal particle size or micronized but not under 100microm) would be an excellent full UVA+UVB protector!!! These two physical sunscreens are available in the US!!! (Thank God for that). Though it can be quite whitening on the skin :(


what about outisde of the US? I am in Australia and plan on getting it off the net anyways.

Can people in the US buy a good sunscreen from an international seller on the net? Which sunscreen represents the best value?

#8 donjoe

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 08:44 AM

Maybe we should have a hierarchical checklist, with ZnO at the top? (Protects against both UVA and UVB and is photostable.)

#9 Eva Victoria

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 01:43 PM

so what sunscreen do you recommend?


None sold in the US I`m afraid. Though you can find sunscreens containing min 20% ZnO/ ZnO+TiO2 (ZnO should be normal particle size or micronized but not under 100microm) would be an excellent full UVA+UVB protector!!! These two physical sunscreens are available in the US!!! (Thank God for that). Though it can be quite whitening on the skin :(


what about outisde of the US? I am in Australia and plan on getting it off the net anyways.


Hi Woly!

I would recommend any sunscreens from the L' Oreal group sold in the EU with MexorySX+XL. They give very good protection against the full UV-range! La Roche-Posay is one of the best brands that L' Oreal have. But Garnier is not bad either. ;) Choos a high SPF than you'll have at least 1/3 UVA protection (meaning SPF30 will have min. PPD10, but i the case of La Roche-Posay it is more like PPD15).
Good luck! :)

#10 Eva Victoria

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 02:15 PM

Maybe we should have a hierarchical checklist, with ZnO at the top? (Protects against both UVA and UVB and is photostable.)



ZnO min 20% is a good alternative! ;)

#11 donjoe

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:00 AM

A thing I'd like straightened out is this: are all sunscreens with Tinosorb photostable? How about all sunscreens with Mexoryl? (I'm expecting a "no" on both counts...)




- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.

Edited by donjoe, 25 February 2008 - 11:06 AM.


#12 Eva Victoria

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 07:12 PM

[quote name='donjoe' date='25-Feb 2008, 12:00 PM' post='225912']
A thing I'd like straightened out is this: are all sunscreens with Tinosorb photostable? How about all sunscreens with Mexoryl? (I'm expecting a "no" on both counts...)

Hi there!
I don't know about all sunscreens with Tinosorb so I cannot tell you wether they are all photostable. The only thing I know is that Nivea (uses Tinosorb) sunscreens are photostable.
Mexoryl filters are patented by L' Oreal and all their sunscreens are photostable. Please note: here I am talking about sunscreens not daycreams with a sunprotection agent from L' Oreal group!

#13 donjoe

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 01:35 PM

I'm still fixated on that earlier "hierarchical list" idea. I'm thinking it would be a great resource if we pieced together a sort of "Ultimate Solar Protection Guide". I'll take a first whack at it:

I. Stay out of the sun as long as possible.

Note: When you manage to stay out of the sun completely for long periods of time (with almost no sunlight getting to you indoors, e.g. at night or in windowless rooms), recommendation II below should not be necessary (altough fluorescent light sources do emit some UV radiation, the intensity is negligible).

II. Use a photostable broad-spectrum sunscreen 365.2425 days a year.

II.1. Use sunscreens that have been proven to retain their properties during prolonged UV exposure - photostable sunscreens, such as:

  • Tiroler Nussöl Sensitiv Sonnen Milch (Tiroler Nussöl Sonnenkosmetik, München, Germany)
  • AS Sonnenmilch für Kinder (E. Kiessling & Cie GmbH. & Co Georgensgmünd, Germany)
  • Nivea Sun Sonnenmilch für Kinder (Beiersdorf AG, Hamburg, Germany)
  • Ambre Solaire Kinder Intensivschutz Sonnenmilch (Laboratoires Garnier, Paris, France)
  • Delial Sonnenmilch für Kinder (Sara Lee, Düsseldorf, Germany)
  • Vichy Capital Soleil Sunblocker-Milch speziell für Kinderhaut (Vichy Laboratoires, Vichy, France)
  • pH5-Eucerin Sun Sensitive Kinder Lotio (Beiersdorf AG, Hamburg, Germany)
  • ...

II.2. Use sunscreens that contain these ingredients, as there's a high probability that they're photostable:
  • Mexoryl (SX or XL)
  • ...

II.3. Re-apply the sunscreen if you have reason to believe it has been rubbed or washed off. Even in the absence of suspicions of mechanical removal, re-apply the sunscreen at least every 2 hours.

II.4. Apply the sunscreen 20 minutes before beginning UVB exposure (going out into the sun).

...

Note: Because maximum solar protection prevents the synthesis of vitamin D in your skin, make sure you're getting enough vitamin D from your diet or from supplements.


References:
Change of Ultraviolet Absorbance of Sunscreens by Exposure to Solar-Simulated Radiation, Harald Maier, Günther Schauberger, Konrad Brunnhofer, and Herbert Hönigsmann, http://www.imminst.o...t...ost&id=2495


Any corrections/additions welcome. (II.4. is my understanding of the instruction on the package of many sunscreens - if you have to apply it 20 minutes before exposure, they probably mean "before going out of the house", which basically means a sharp increase in UVB only. Correct me if I'm wrong.)




- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.

Edited by donjoe, 26 February 2008 - 01:36 PM.


#14 Eva Victoria

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 05:03 PM

I'm still fixated on that earlier "hierarchical list" idea. I'm thinking it would be a great resource if we pieced together a sort of "Ultimate Solar Protection Guide". I'll take a first whack at it:

GREAT IDEA!!!!!

I. Stay out of the sun as long as possible.

The most important step!

Note: When you manage to stay out of the sun completely for long periods of time (with almost no sunlight getting to you indoors, e.g. at night or in windowless rooms), recommendation II below should not be necessary (altough fluorescent light sources do emit some UV radiation, the intensity is negligible).

II. Use a photostable broad-spectrum sunscreen 365.2425 days a year.

Only if you are South of UK / Canada. Otherwise from 1. March till 1. Oct.

II.1. Use sunscreens that have been proven to retain their properties during prolonged UV exposure - photostable sunscreens, such as:

  • Tiroler Nussöl Sensitiv Sonnen Milch (Tiroler Nussöl Sonnenkosmetik, München, Germany
Dont know this. Send me the ingredients list.
  • AS Sonnenmilch für Kinder (E. Kiessling & Cie GmbH. & Co Georgensgmünd, Germany)
Dont know this. Send me the ingredients list.
  • Nivea Sun Sonnenmilch für Kinder (Beiersdorf AG, Hamburg, Germany)
  • Ambre Solaire Kinder Intensivschutz Sonnenmilch (Laboratoires Garnier, Paris, France)
  • Delial Sonnenmilch für Kinder (Sara Lee, Düsseldorf, Germany)
This is not a good sunscreen combination:(
  • Vichy Capital Soleil Sunblocker-Milch speziell für Kinderhaut (Vichy Laboratoires, Vichy, France)
  • pH5-Eucerin Sun Sensitive Kinder Lotio (Beiersdorf AG, Hamburg, Germany)
  • Anything from L' Oreal group!

II.2. Use sunscreens that contain these ingredients, as there's a high probability that they're photostable:
  • Mexoryl (SX or XL)
  • Tinosorb M+ AVO or Tinosorb M+S (+AVO)

II.3. Re-apply the sunscreen if you have reason to believe it has been rubbed or washed off. Even in the absence of suspicions of mechanical removal, re-apply the sunscreen at least every 2 hours.

II.4. Apply the sunscreen 20 minutes before beginning UVB exposure (going out into the sun).

I would say: Apply sunscreen first thing in the morning as the last step of your skincare routine. Since UVA passes through glass hence it can damage your skin even inside the house.

...

Note: Because maximum solar protection prevents the synthesis of vitamin D in your skin, make sure you're getting enough vitamin D from your diet or from supplements.

You`ll get enough Vit. D no matter what. (No sunscreen filters 100% and sunrays will penetrate throough your scalp as well.


References:
Change of Ultraviolet Absorbance of Sunscreens by Exposure to Solar-Simulated Radiation, Harald Maier, Günther Schauberger, Konrad Brunnhofer, and Herbert Hönigsmann, http://www.imminst.o...t...ost&id=2495


Any corrections/additions welcome. (II.4. is my understanding of the instruction on the package of many sunscreens - if you have to apply it 20 minutes before exposure, they probably mean "before going out of the house", which basically means a sharp increase in UVB only. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

If I understand you correctly then you are right! (UVB-rays don't penetrate through windows).

#15 donjoe

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 07:41 PM

(This would work so much better on a Wiki...)

OK, first I'll list the modifications I can agree with immediately, in blue:

Steps to take, ordered by decreasing importance:

...

II. Use a photostable broad-spectrum sunscreen 365.2425 days a year, from sunrise to sunset.

...

  • Mexoryl (SX or XL)
  • Tinosorb M+ AVO or Tinosorb M+S (+AVO)
...



And now the answers to your other concerns:

Only if you are South of UK / Canada. Otherwise from 1. March till 1. Oct.

I've seen you state this before, but I'm not sure there were any references for it. Where did you get the latitude limit and the calendar interval? What proof is there that, say, Scandinavians don't get any benefit from using a sunscreen in winter?

Dont know this. Send me the ingredients list.
[...]
This is not a good sunscreen combination:(

The ones I listed so far were all taken from the first study I added to the References section, which is your first PDF attachment from the "Why reapply..." thread. :) If you look at the results, you'll find that those were all photostable formulations.

Anything from L' Oreal group!

Are you sure that every single L'Oréal sunscreen that anyone could possibly find on the market today (in different parts of the world) is photostable? Also - I'm not sure how big a group/company L'Oréal is, so I have to wonder - are you sure that absolutely all sunscreens produced by someone in the L'Oréal group will have the name "L'Oréal" mentioned somewhere on the package?

  • Mexoryl (SX or XL)
  • Tinosorb M+ AVO or Tinosorb M+S (+AVO)

I omitted to do this for the Mexoryl, but we'll need some scientific references for these substances in the References section at the end.

You`ll get enough Vit. D no matter what. (No sunscreen filters 100% and sunrays will penetrate throough your scalp as well.

I don't know about that. I'd rather stay on the safe side, as vitamin D defficiency can have some nasty consequences, among which impaired immune responses. Look what it says on Wikipedia:

[14][/sup] Ironically, there are indications that vitamin D deficiency may lead to skin cancer.[27] To avoid vitamin D deficiency dermatologists recommend supplementation along with sunscreen use.

... so I'd rather not give any dangerous advice and just keep the vitamin D recommendation in there.


- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.


#16 Eva Victoria

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 08:07 PM

(This would work so much better on a Wiki...)

OK, first I'll list the modifications I can agree with immediately, in blue:

Steps to take, ordered by decreasing importance:

...

II. Use a photostable broad-spectrum sunscreen 365.2425 days a year, from sunrise to sunset.

...

  • Mexoryl (SX or XL)
  • Tinosorb M+ AVO or Tinosorb M+S (+AVO)
...



And now the answers to your other concerns:

Only if you are South of UK / Canada. Otherwise from 1. March till 1. Oct.

I've seen you state this before, but I'm not sure there were any references for it. Where did you get the latitude limit and the calendar interval? What proof is there that, say, Scandinavians don't get any benefit from using a sunscreen in winter?

Because we don't have Sun in the winter :) And the UV-index is under 0,5 (March 1. is around 1. See http://www.nrpa.no/u...00d8ster%u00e5s
It is for OSLO)

"The
year-round daily use of sunscreen for people living in
countries of low insolation—eg, the UK and Northern
Europe—can not be recommended, and sunscreens are
best avoided during October to March.126 There is some
evidence to suggest that the year-round application of
sunscreens can be beneficial in terms of prevention of
cancer and solar elastosis in areas of high insolation, such
as Queensland, Australia, and Texas, USA."
(See 2. attachment)

Dont know this. Send me the ingredients list.
[...]
This is not a good sunscreen combination:(

The ones I listed so far were all taken from the first study I added to the References section, which is your first PDF attachment from the "Why reapply..." thread. :) If you look at the results, you'll find that those were all photostable formulations.

I never checked these filters myself hence I cannot stand for them :p (Though Delial did not show photostability in our lab tests).

Anything from L' Oreal group!

Are you sure that every single L'Oréal sunscreen that anyone could possibly find on the market today (in different parts of the world) is photostable? Also - I'm not sure how big a group/company L'Oréal is, so I have to wonder - are you sure that absolutely all sunscreens produced by someone in the L'Oréal group will have the name "L'Oréal" mentioned somewhere on the package?

Yes. Even the ones sold in the US are photostable (they just lack MexorylXL -UVA filter).
It always states on the packadge that is distributed by L' Oreal.
All sunscreen is made at one factory of L' Oreal (Clichy) and they use the same combo of the filters (the only diff. is that they use less UVA prot. in cheaper products llike Garnier:( But the stability is the same.

  • Mexoryl (SX or XL)
  • Tinosorb M+ AVO or Tinosorb M+S (+AVO)

I omitted to do this for the Mexoryl, but we'll need some scientific references for these substances in the References section at the end.

You`ll get enough Vit. D no matter what. (No sunscreen filters 100% and sunrays will penetrate throough your scalp as well.

I don't know about that. I'd rather stay on the safe side, as vitamin D defficiency can have some nasty consequences, among which impaired immune responses. Look what it says on Wikipedia:

[14][/sup] Ironically, there are indications that vitamin D deficiency may lead to skin cancer.[27] To avoid vitamin D deficiency dermatologists recommend supplementation along with sunscreen use.

... so I'd rather not give any dangerous advice and just keep the vitamin D recommendation in there.

This is the official statement of all medical advisers. But dermatologists say today that with this statement people will suntan more and use less sunscreens less frequently. They say that the danger of skincancer is greater.
And you do get enough VitD by every day exposure even wearing a sunscreen.

- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.


Attached Files


Edited by Eva Victoria, 26 February 2008 - 08:20 PM.


#17 Eva Victoria

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 08:22 PM

Unfortunatelly I cannot recommend any sunscreens sold in the US. It is high time that the FDA does something about allowing proper UVA-filters into the US!!! (We have 28 filters in EU, 9 of them are for UVA; the US has 16 filters whereas 2 of them are against UVA: Avobenzone and Zinc Oxide. But Avobenzone is always used together with Octyl Methoxycinnamate (USAN:Octinoxate) which makes it not photo stable :( (Both Avb. and OMC are unstable SS; both alone or together can be stabilized with Tinosorb or Octocrylene).

Conclusion: you just have to order sunscreens from Europe!!! (L`Oreal group can be bought through the internet: Vichy, La Roche-Posay-but not the ones that are av. in the US!!! They lack UVA prot. from 340nm!, Helena Rubinstein, Garnier. These sunscreens are also sold in Canada.)

What to look for on the ingredients label when buying a sunscreen?


Parsol 1789 Butyl methoxy dibenzoylmethane BMDM UVAII-I
Escalol 6300 4-methyl benzylidenecamphor MBC
Mexoryl SX Terephtalylidene dicamphor UVAII
sulfonic acid

TDSA
Mexoryl XL Drometrizole trisiloxane DMTS UVAI
Uvinul N 539 Octocrylene OC
Uvinul T 150 Octyltriazone OT
Titanium dioxide TiO2 UVB-UVAII
Zinc oxide ZnO UVAII-I
Tinosorb® M (USAN Bisoctrizole, INCI Methylene Bis-Benzotriazolyl

Tetramethylbutylphenol) UVAI

Tinosorb® S (USAN Bemotrizinol, INCI Bis-Ethylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl

Triazine) UVAII

Octocrylene

Diethylhexyl Butamido Triazone



The following are the FDA allowable active ingredients in sunscreens:

USA nm max.effect nm

p-Aminobenzoic acid (PABA) up to 15 %. 260-313 283


Avobenzone up to 3%. BMDM 310-400 358

Recently FDA approved:

Mexoryl® SX (USAN Ecamsule, INCI Terephthalylidene Dicamphor Sulfonic Acid) - UVAII absorber used in combination with other ingredients for UVB

Others additionally approved within the EU[ and other parts of the world include:

[/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][*]Mexoryl® XL (INCI Drometrizole Trisiloxane) 290-370 330-350
[*]Neo Heliopan® AP (USAN Bisdisulizole Disodium, INCI Disodium Phenyl Dibenzimidazole Tetrasulfonate)
[*]Uvinul® A Plus (INCI Diethylamino Hydroxybenzoyl Hexyl Benzoate) 352-360 356
[*]Uvinul® T 150 (USAN Octyl Triazone, INCI Ethylhexyl Triazone) 290-320 300-320
[*]Uvasorb® HEB (INCI Diethylhexyl Butamido Triazone)
[*]Parsol® SLX (INCI Polysilicone-15) 310-330 315
[*]Amiloxate (USAN), INCI Isoamyl p-Methoxycinnamate)
[/list] A lot of the ingredients not approved by the FDA are relatively new and developed to absorb UVAII and I.

A good sunscreen is composed of several chemical compounds to be able to achieve full protection against UVB and UVA-rays and to be able to stay photo stable in sunlight!



#18 donjoe

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 09:57 PM

Delial did not show photostability in our lab tests

OK, I'll need you to fill me in here: what do you mean by "our lab"? Whose lab would that be, exactly?



- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.


#19 dehbleh

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 07:42 AM

The most affordable & effective sunscreen I have used by far..............

Posted Image
Skin Actives

These guys have a no-nonsense approach to skin care and totally abhor the cosmetics industry for the way they market to the majority of uneducated consumers out there. Most, if not all of their products are backed by science (as their name suggests) and a lot of decent products can be found here.

IMO it isn't the best place to find Copper Peptides (SkinBiology is still ahead on this front) but they do stock one really nice sunscreen formula.

#20 gwgaston

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:57 PM

The most affordable & effective sunscreen I have used by far..............

Skin Actives

These guys have a no-nonsense approach to skin care and totally abhor the cosmetics industry for the way they market to the majority of uneducated consumers out there. Most, if not all of their products are backed by science (as their name suggests) and a lot of decent products can be found here.

IMO it isn't the best place to find Copper Peptides (SkinBiology is still ahead on this front) but they do stock one really nice sunscreen formula.


From previous posts I think you'll find a few of us here have used SkinActives products. IIRC Hannah banned Zoolander over there. :) (assuming same 'Zoolander')

I still use their CHAS and ELS.

On the sunscreen (which is a recent addition for them), I'm wondering what Eva and the other sunscreen gurus would say about the composition. Is the ZnO is too low? ... are the two chemical actives photostable without Octocrylene or such. I am a sunscreen noob so hopefully one of them will comment.

Active ingredients: Octinoxate 7.5%, Zinc Oxide 7%, Octisalate 5%.


Ingredients: Purified Water, Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, C 12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Cetyl Alcohol, Ceteareth-20, Cyclomethicone, Cetyl Dimethicone Copolyol, Cetyl Dimethicone, Dimethicone, Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C), Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopherol Acetate, /Camellia oleifera/ (Green Tea) Extract, Chamomile (/Anthernis nobilis/) Extract, /Calendula officinalis/ Extract, Ginseng (/Panax ginseng/) Extract, /Gingko biloba /Extract, Licorice (/Glycyrrhiza glabra/) Extract, Hyaluronic acid, Sodium PCA, Citric Acid, Xanthan Gum, Tetrasodium EDTA, Methylparaben, Diazolidinyl Urea.

Edited by frankbuzin, 27 February 2008 - 04:59 PM.


#21 Eva Victoria

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 05:02 PM

Delial did not show photostability in our lab tests

OK, I'll need you to fill me in here: what do you mean by "our lab"? Whose lab would that be, exactly?

Where I do my research. We use the Colipa method when it comes to sunscreens.

- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.



Edited by Eva Victoria, 27 February 2008 - 05:03 PM.


#22 Eva Victoria

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 05:04 PM

The most affordable & effective sunscreen I have used by far..............

Skin Actives

These guys have a no-nonsense approach to skin care and totally abhor the cosmetics industry for the way they market to the majority of uneducated consumers out there. Most, if not all of their products are backed by science (as their name suggests) and a lot of decent products can be found here.

IMO it isn't the best place to find Copper Peptides (SkinBiology is still ahead on this front) but they do stock one really nice sunscreen formula.


From previous posts I think you'll find a few of us here have used SkinActives products. IIRC Hannah banned Zoolander over there. :) (assuming same 'Zoolander')

I still use their CHAS and ELS.

On the sunscreen (which is a recent addition for them), I'm wondering what Eva and the other sunscreen gurus would say about the composition. Is the ZnO is too low? ... are the two chemical actives photostable without Octocrylene or such. I am a sunscreen noob so hopefully one of them will comment.

Active ingredients: Octinoxate 7.5%, Zinc Oxide 7%, Octisalate 5%.


Ingredients: Purified Water, Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, C 12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Cetyl Alcohol, Ceteareth-20, Cyclomethicone, Cetyl Dimethicone Copolyol, Cetyl Dimethicone, Dimethicone, Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C), Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopherol Acetate, /Camellia oleifera/ (Green Tea) Extract, Chamomile (/Anthernis nobilis/) Extract, /Calendula officinalis/ Extract, Ginseng (/Panax ginseng/) Extract, /Gingko biloba /Extract, Licorice (/Glycyrrhiza glabra/) Extract, Hyaluronic acid, Sodium PCA, Citric Acid, Xanthan Gum, Tetrasodium EDTA, Methylparaben, Diazolidinyl Urea.


This formulation does not seem to be stable. It looks like a usual US sunscreen composition :(
There are far better sunscreens out there today (mostly from Europe).

#23 Grimm

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 08:00 PM

Sunscreen?

I haven't worn any in years.

Though that is strange that US sunscreen isn't as protective as European sunscreen.

#24 donjoe

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 06:51 PM

  • Nivea Sun Sonnenmilch für Kinder (Beiersdorf AG, Hamburg, Germany)
    ...
This is not a good sunscreen combination:(

I've found it in the store and I've got the ingredient list now:
Posted Image
See anything you like? :-D

It's got Tinosorb S + Avobenzone + TiO2 + Octyltriazone, so I don't see any reason for it not to be photostable. The worst thing that comes to mind is that there was a test showing how inorganics completely destabilize Avobenzone (unless the particles have some very specific coating), but that shouldn't be the case here, because Tinosorb is also present. And happily there are no cinnamates. So I still tend to believe the study you quoted and see this as a safe and stable sunscreen. (In fact, I'm going to buy it and use it myself, because it's the best thing I've seen in my area so far. I just hope they can get me something stronger than SPF 15.)




- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.


#25 Eva Victoria

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 08:20 PM

It sounds and looks good! :-D


  • Nivea Sun Sonnenmilch für Kinder (Beiersdorf AG, Hamburg, Germany)
    ...
This is not a good sunscreen combination:(

I've found it in the store and I've got the ingredient list now:
Posted Image
See anything you like? :p

It's got Tinosorb S + Avobenzone + TiO2 + Octyltriazone, so I don't see any reason for it not to be photostable. The worst thing that comes to mind is that there was a test showing how inorganics completely destabilize Avobenzone (unless the particles have some very specific coating), but that shouldn't be the case here, because Tinosorb is also present. And happily there are no cinnamates. So I still tend to believe the study you quoted and see this as a safe and stable sunscreen. (In fact, I'm going to buy it and use it myself, because it's the best thing I've seen in my area so far. I just hope they can get me something stronger than SPF 15.)



- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.



#26 donjoe

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 05:17 PM

it can be quite whitening on the skin :(

This is an aspect I still don't understand: what's this "whitening" effect? Does the skin look whiter only while you're wearing the sunscreen or is it a more persistent effect, visible even after you wash up? If it's the second, how persistent? Does it wear off after a while if you stop using the inorganics or is there a risk of permanent whitening?



- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.


#27 Eva Victoria

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 04:26 PM

No ;) Organic sunscreens don't penetrate the skin, hence they stay on the surface. As long as you don't wash it off or sweat it off :)

There is no permanent whitening :p Only temporary.


it can be quite whitening on the skin :(

This is an aspect I still don't understand: what's this "whitening" effect? Does the skin look whiter only while you're wearing the sunscreen or is it a more persistent effect, visible even after you wash up? If it's the second, how persistent? Does it wear off after a while if you stop using the inorganics or is there a risk of permanent whitening?


- After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
- Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.



#28 niner

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 03:51 AM

No ;) Organic sunscreens don't penetrate the skin, hence they stay on the surface. As long as you don't wash it off or sweat it off :)

Eva, what do you mean by "organic"? Chemical sunscreens (Since they are carbon compounds, we would normally call them organic chemicals.) certainly are absorbed into the skin. Maybe Zinc Oxide is not absorbed, if the particle size is large enough.

#29 Eva Victoria

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Posted 08 April 2008 - 03:12 PM

The terms Chemical and Physical sunscreen today are exchanged with "organic" and "inorganic" sunscreen agents.
Organic agents are OMC, AVO etc. Inorganic ones are TiO2 and ZnO.

And it is true that if the particle size of the inorganic filters are less than 35nm (nano-particles) than they can penetrate the skin.
The EU law regulating cosmetics therefore does not allow particle size of inorganic filters under 35nm! In the EU it is preferably 100nm. The higher the particle size the lower the UVB protection BUT higher the UVA protection! It is mre whitening and need more of the ingredient to have a high SPF of the finished product (which is what is still important for the manufacturer). Hence micronized particles are used to boost the SPF of the product and have less ingredient hance less whitening from the final product. (100-35nm is micronized; 100-250 normal particle size.)

For example: you want to make an inorganic sunscreen SPF40 than you would use 11% TiO2 particle size 60. The final product will be almost invisible on the skin but with very poor UVA protection. (This is what Clarins did with their UV Plus SPF40 product).
or
you could have ZnO (it is less whitening than TiO2, but contributes less to the SPF of the final product) particle size
200 (normal size) 40% than you'll get SPF40 but UVA 35 (full UVA protection!). It will be very white on the skin.
or
you could have ZnO particle size
100 (micronized size) 25% than you'll get SPF40 but UVA20 (full UVA protection!). It will be still white on the skin.

This is the reason why inorganic filters are used in combination with organic ones.



No ;) Organic sunscreens don't penetrate the skin, hence they stay on the surface. As long as you don't wash it off or sweat it off :)

Eva, what do you mean by "organic"? Chemical sunscreens (Since they are carbon compounds, we would normally call them organic chemicals.) certainly are absorbed into the skin. Maybe Zinc Oxide is not absorbed, if the particle size is large enough.






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