17 replies to this topic

[Hedgehog]

Here is what I recieved from Alkemist Labs in response to your questions.

"The t-Resveratrol standard that we used for our analysis was purchased
from Chromadex (Lot #18090-601) and came with its own C of As:

The *hplc purity* was listed at 99.9%: this is a reflection of
organic impurities that might be present or not with the analyte of interest

The *adjusted purity* was listed at 90.7%: this account for any
water & residual solvents trapped within the powder.

The
adjusted purity equals (100% - % water - % residual solvent) x hplc % purity

These above purities aren’t based on Alkemists’ analysis or
calculations. They are provided by the supplier of primary standards
(Chromadex here). You might be more familiar with company such as Sigma
which sells fine chemicals. Sigma will provide you only with min % hplc
purity but no information on moisture content which render these
chemicals less suitable for use as reference standard in quantitative
hplc analysis.

Regarding your test sample, it was handled the exact same way as the
reference standard (with ptfe filtration). The 87% result represent the
% weight content of Resveratrol in your powder based on a calibration
curve created with the reference standard from Chromadex."

Feel free to call or email with any further questions

Sounds like I got myself I new standard vendor

[edward]

Chromadex does appear better than Sigma, which also begs the question, what would some other companies products test out as if used a standard like that from Chromadex which specifies moisture content etc.

[niner]

So does this mean that VP is 9.2% water and/or solvent? Jeez, that seems awfully high. It might explain the weird crystals. Is this mole% rather than weight percent? A mole of water isn't much. (18cc)

[dachshund]

I have been encouraged with the Vital Prime results reported to date. I really appreciate the electron micrographs posted by Hedgehog, & VP's posting of the Alkemist analysis results. I am still curious to see the AACL test data from Anthony. My only frustration is that I place my order with VP on Jan. 26 and have not received yet. VP has told me they are waiting for shipment of their second lot from the supplier. I suspect if they get some dedicated customers like myself the customer service will improve.

[niner]

I have been encouraged with the Vital Prime results reported to date. I really appreciate the electron micrographs posted by Hedgehog, & VP's posting of the Alkemist analysis results. I am still curious to see the AACL test data from Anthony. My only frustration is that I place my order with VP on Jan. 26 and have not received yet. VP has told me they are waiting for shipment of their second lot from the supplier. I suspect if they get some dedicated customers like myself the customer service will improve.

If their second shipment is from a different batch, it might have different characteristics. This is why Anthony gets an analysis on each batch, which is a thing that I like about RevGenetics.

[Hedgehog]

So does this mean that VP is 9.2% water and/or solvent? Jeez, that seems awfully high. It might explain the weird crystals. Is this mole% rather than weight percent? A mole of water isn't much. (18cc)

(100% - % water - % residual solvent) x hplc % purity



I have been talking with VP. Won't go into the details but he is actually returning some of his recent resveratrol lots because they didn't meet spec. IMO at least he is doing this. He was very thankful for the SEM results. So I think I have a good connection with him. I asked if he could ask Alkemist if they identified the solvents. However, it was very interesting that the SIGMA Ref Standard came back just over 90%, so I'm wondering if these crystals are traping EtOH when they form.

All try to run a TGA on it. If the solvents are trapped insides the crystals I won't see anything. if the solvets are on the outside of the crystals then I should see loss in total weight before it melts (hopefully around 13%).

[Hedgehog]

I suspect if they get some dedicated customers like myself the customer service will improve.

I think it is the QA/QC that is holding them up.

[dachshund]

I am OK waiting. I'd rather get t-res material that meets Vital Prime's promised spec. than material that is less pure than what I paid for. I have enough MegaRes product to get me through for a while. I'll let you know when I receive the Vital Prime product, I ordered 500 g. Hedgehog, did the Vital Prime owner say that he was going to check the new lots he receives to verify that they meet the stated purity?

I know it is a long process getting a new product off the ground, I have particiapated in this process myself. Supply chain & QA/QC are big challenges, but with perseverance, dedication and hard-work it can be resolved. I am glad to hear VP is taking this very seriously and working to resolve the issue.

Thanks

[Hedgehog]

I am OK waiting. I'd rather get t-res material that meets Vital Prime's promised spec. than material that is less pure than what I paid for. I have enough MegaRes product to get me through for a while. I'll let you know when I receive the Vital Prime product, I ordered 500 g. Hedgehog, did the Vital Prime owner say that he was going to check the new lots he receives to verify that they meet the stated purity?

I know it is a long process getting a new product off the ground, I have particiapated in this process myself. Supply chain & QA/QC are big challenges, but with perseverance, dedication and hard-work it can be resolved. I am glad to hear VP is taking this very seriously and working to resolve the issue.

Thanks

You would have to call him but he is testing the new lots.

[Anthony_Loera]

Chromadex doesn't seem to supply 99% res, he may be waiting on the chinese version to be cleared by the FDA in customs.

The seem to be taking much longer now, after the chinese new year.

here is chromadex sheet:
http://www.chromadex...eratrolBULK.pdf

A

[edward]

Chromadex doesn't seem to supply 99% res, he may be waiting on the chinese version to be cleared by the FDA in customs.

The seem to be taking much longer now, after the chinese new year.

here is chromadex sheet:
http://www.chromadex...eratrolBULK.pdf

A

They supply small amounts as a standard for testing. http://www.chromadex...p;Submit=Search

[Anthony_Loera]

Maybe we should put them on the price watch!

Can a few people ask for pricing? I am already asking for pricing regarding 20kg & 25kg

A

[Anthony_Loera]

Vital Prime results from AACL are attached.

Attached Files

•  VitalPrime.pdf   15.95KB   73 downloads

[Hedgehog]

Vital Prime results from AACL are attached.

So AACL came back 98.8 AN% and Alkemist came back 87% by weight.

meaning there is about 12-13% H20+OVI. It also probably means that other vendors have about 87-90 T-res by weight. Anthony basically AACL didn't do a correction for water and OVI when running thier standard. So there is probably some residual solvents + H20 in all vendors samples.

ATM I'm running a TGA, which should tell us if the OVI + Water is on the outside of the crystals or locked up inside. You could probably give this information to the vendor and tell them they either need a new method for making the crystals or new method for drying them out. This would put your purity at about 110% against a sigma standard and your SIRT1 activation would even higher if you did it next time.

Edited by hedgehog_info, 25 February 2008 - 07:14 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

I spoke with Chromadex rep, and he mentioned they don't make micronized res.

It appeared that the particle size in the VP res was very small when looking at the SEM pics. Maybe the res in the SEM pics is from a different batch.
Could that mean that the res that was tested by Alkemist lab, and AACL may also be different?

Not to throw a wrench into this, but that's what I got from the Chromadex rep, and since the powder mentioned in this post supposedly came from Chromadex, and your SEM pics show a very fine particle size... well...

I am no expert at all, but what kind of particle size would you say VP has by the look of the SEM pics provided?

A


BTW: attached is the Chromadex COA

Attached Files

•  Chromadex_COA.pdf   67.85KB   48 downloads
•  Chromadex_COA2.pdf   651.63KB   44 downloads

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 25 February 2008 - 10:06 PM.

[Hedgehog]

I spoke with Chromadex rep, and he mentioned they don't make micronized res.

It appeared that the particle size in the VP res was very small when looking at the SEM pics. Maybe the res in the SEM pics is from a different batch.
Could that mean that the res that was tested by Alkemist lab, and AACL may also be different?

Not to throw a wrench into this, but that's what I got from the Chromadex rep, and since the powder mentioned in this post supposedly came from Chromadex, and your SEM pics show a very fine particle size... well...

I am no expert at all, but what kind of particle size would you say VP has by the look of the SEM pics provided?

A

umm the chormadex sample was used as a reference standard for the Vital Prime HPLC analysis. I didn't look at any chromadex sample under the SEM. I don't think VP micronized their sample i think it was just processed different. If you noticed there are large particle sizes along with really fine ones. Kinda like the bottom of a cereal box.

[Anthony_Loera]

Boy did I read that post incorrectly... My mistake.
Chromadex has been added to the price list for reference.

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 25 February 2008 - 10:16 PM.

[Hedgehog]

Vital Prime results from AACL are attached.

Thanks Anthony for getting a different Lab to get results. very cool Once again you show that your company is dedicated in providing a good product.

I did a TGA on VP sample and didn’t find any noticeable OVI’s. from about 25C-140C there was about a loss of 0.3% weight. TGA basically weighs a sample and heats it up. While it heats it up it takes a constant reading of the weight of the sample. So as the temp increases you should see release of Water + Solvents. Now if the solvents are locked up inside the crystals then the TGA won’t be able to see this locked up solvents. I also did a coulometric water analysis. Which dissolves the substances in a solvent a sees how much water is released. I got 0.277% water by weight. I went back and look at the GC graphs and they are essentially blank there are a few peaks but nothing that screams out 10%. If the solvent is NMP then I wouldn’t be able to tell because I dissolved sample in NMP. Also some of these small peaks could be very “sticky” meaning that they don’t produce a large response and or co-elute w/ NMP. VP is going to get the OVI data and let me know what the OVI’s are. ATM it is like hunting for a needle in a hay stack.

I also need to confirm that the lot alkhemist analyzed is the same lot that I have been looking at.