34 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

my school is forcing me to get another MMR vaccine because i had my first at 11 months not 12 months... is there anything i need to know before i have it done? i know this vaccine has been associated with autism & some people get flu-like symptoms.

[Matt]

The vaccine hasn't been associated with autism, there is no proven link. Just get it done

[stephen_b]

There's no proven link, but there is supporting evidence for a causal link. "Detection of Measles Virus Genomic RNA in Cerebrospinal Fluid of Children with Regressive Autism: a Report of Three Cases".

An adult's immune system should be fully developed though. Too bad they don't break these vaccines up into separate parts as done in some other countries.

Stephen

Edited by stephen_b, 28 February 2008 - 03:52 AM.

[edward]

The majority of current vaccines are very safe and there has as Matt said been no proven link between vaccines and diseases such as Autism. Also, most (if not all) modern vaccines do not use heavy metals.

Personally I am a big supporter of vaccines and have been vaccinated against everything you can think of (I have done traveling in Asia in the past few years).

[ajnast4r]

The majority of current vaccines are very safe and there has as Matt said been no proven link between vaccines and diseases such as Autism. Also, most (if not all) modern vaccines do not use heavy metals.

Personally I am a big supporter of vaccines and have been vaccinated against everything you can think of (I have done traveling in Asia in the past few years).

yea my mom (a nurse) is pushing me to get a bunch of them done... including meningococoal.

probably a smart idea...

thanks guys

[dannov]

The majority of current vaccines are very safe and there has as Matt said been no proven link between vaccines and diseases such as Autism. Also, most (if not all) modern vaccines do not use heavy metals.

Personally I am a big supporter of vaccines and have been vaccinated against everything you can think of (I have done traveling in Asia in the past few years).

yea my mom (a nurse) is pushing me to get a bunch of them done... including meningococoal.

probably a smart idea...

thanks guys

Don't let anyone put that crap in your body against your will. Vaccines are dangerous, and people that say "there aren't any proven studies" ya well there are quite a few doctors against vaccinations. It's not just the vaccinations themselves, but all of the other crap in there as well. I'd not get my kid vaccinated against a thing...take care of them, feed them the right stuff, and they'll not have to worry about anything else. Google is your friend, don't expect the mass media to ever report much on this stuff:

http://www.vaccinetr...st_vaccines.htm (just one site amongst many more)

These would be the "think outside the box" and "do your own research" types that don't buy corporate governments' BS. Eat healthy, exercise, and supplement and you'll not get sick. I haven't gotten a shot since gosh, 8 years ago. I never let my college force me to get a shot, even if they said it was mandatory.

Of course, if you don't mind...go ahead. Your body bro. I haven't gotten sick since frosh year of college 6 years ago, and that was when I was a fraction as healthy and robust as now (and was trapped in a tiny room with a roommate with a disgusting cough).

Edited by dannov, 29 February 2008 - 08:22 AM.

[dannov]

And another fresh article:

http://www.startribu...h/16054722.html

[inawe]

I cannot believe this! Sure the development of vaccines is a delicate
enterprise. A few times bad side effects can happen. But for somebody to issue a
blanket statement "Vaccines are dangerous", WOW!!! I'm sure that
somebody never saw an old person hit by polio before the vaccines.
Life expectancy in the US was 47 years at the beginning of the 20th
century. Now it's approaching 80. Why? Hygiene, vaccines, antibiotics, chlorine and
fluoride in water supplies, and a few other things.

Edited by inawe, 29 February 2008 - 06:42 PM.

[krillin]

I haven't gotten a shot since gosh, 8 years ago.

Then you've had the childhood immunizations? If so, they're working. If not, then you're benefiting from herd immunity, which we'll lose if too many simpletons like you have kids and refuse to vaccinate them.

The anti-vaccine crowd is as pathetic as the 1960s hippies who decided to ignore the medical establishment's hygiene advice, and wound up getting the mange, the grunge, the itch, the twitch, the thrush, the scroff, and the rot. (I got the disease list from a Tom Wolfe essay that has been excerpted all over the net.)

[krillin]

"Detection of Measles Virus Genomic RNA in Cerebrospinal Fluid of Children with Regressive Autism: a Report of Three Cases".

That journal is the house organ of these Bircher kooks.

[edward]

I haven't gotten a shot since gosh, 8 years ago.

Then you've had the childhood immunizations? If so, they're working. If not, then you're benefiting from herd immunity, which we'll lose if too many simpletons like you have kids and refuse to vaccinate them.

The anti-vaccine crowd is as pathetic as the 1960s hippies who decided to ignore the medical establishment's hygiene advice, and wound up getting the mange, the grunge, the itch, the twitch, the thrush, the scroff, and the rot. (I got the disease list from a Tom Wolfe essay that has been excerpted all over the net.)

Thank you. I am getting really annoyed every time I look at this board lately and the only activity has been on the Vaccine and Fluoride threads, two topics that draw extreme "kooky" ideas in my opinion.

Vaccines are some of the most amazing accomplishments we have made in the realm of medicine and public health.

Krillin is right on target with the above comments. I know someone who had polio (he sadly was from a developing country that didn't have access to vaccines) and its not a pretty picture, he can barely use his right leg, he wishes every day he had been able to get the polio vaccine. One reason why so many "kooks" are anti vaccine is the fact that good vaccination procedures in the past have virtually eradicated many major diseases thus people aren't aware of how things were before such vaccines, if such people were living in the time of an epidemic I think they would change their tune.

[ortcloud]

The vaccine hasn't been associated with autism, there is no proven link. Just get it done

oh ?

Government Concludes Vaccines Caused Autism

http://www.earthtime...sm,296463.shtml

[dannov]

I cannot believe this! Sure the development of vaccines is a delicate
enterprise. A few times bad side effects can happen. But for somebody to issue a
blanket statement "Vaccines are dangerous", WOW!!! I'm sure that
somebody never saw an old person hit by polio before the vaccines.
Life expectancy in the US was 47 years at the beginning of the 20th
century. Now it's approaching 80. Why? Hygiene, vaccines, antibiotics, chlorine and
fluoride in water supplies, and a few other things.

I believe there is a natural counter to everything, and if you take your mentality out of the western world and look to other areas that are very advanced in herbals such as China throughout its history, India, Japan, etc. -- I think you'd find the life expectancy extremely longer than the average European lifespan in any time period. Prevention != vaccination, prevention = a strong diet and knowledge of nutrition accompanied by consistent physical activity.

[dannov]

I haven't gotten a shot since gosh, 8 years ago.

Then you've had the childhood immunizations? If so, they're working. If not, then you're benefiting from herd immunity, which we'll lose if too many simpletons like you have kids and refuse to vaccinate them.

The anti-vaccine crowd is as pathetic as the 1960s hippies who decided to ignore the medical establishment's hygiene advice, and wound up getting the mange, the grunge, the itch, the twitch, the thrush, the scroff, and the rot. (I got the disease list from a Tom Wolfe essay that has been excerpted all over the net.)

Except that unlike the hippies who just smoked weed and voiced their opinions, the anti-vaccine crowd consists of concerned parents who have witnessed the effects first-hand, doctors, and intellectuals.

Benefitting from herd mentality, please. I had the few immunizations as a kid, yes. However, I don't get sick...period. Ever. It doesn't matter if I'm living in a crowded apartment (as I did for years...) with unhealthy people, or if there is a big bug going around work (as there has a few times) in our tight-packed cubicle-laden office.

Rather than be illogical and irrational and try to pin thrush, scroff, rot, etc. on not getting vaccinated, how about you actually look at the lifestyles that hippies led? Often dirty, promiscuous, communal, unhealthy diets, zero supplement regimes, lack of exercise...gosh, the list is endless. Of course, I don't mean to blanket all hippies as being guilty of the aforementioned, but then again, you can hardly blanket all hippies as being victims of the diseases that you have mentioned. Hygeine accompanied by a good diet is the #1 preventative measure for the majority of sicknesses out there.

I'd call a simpleton a person that believes everything the medical community tells him, without looking towards the doctors and other concerned intellectuals who have been posting their findings and research, just for it to get squelched by money interests. Merck & Co. is about the dollar, nothing else my friend.

Yet more credible reports, even the US Gov.'t admits the link between autism and vaccines:

http://www.huffingto...ci_b_88323.html

A neurosurgeon goes into great depth about the effects of vaccines using, gasp, science!

http://articles.merc...ter-age-50.aspx

Hey guys, Mercury is good for you and your children, didn't you know?



^^ More proof of the loads of corruption in the pharma. industry and mass media to exempt them from responsibility and financial losses.

Sheeples, nothing to see here...move along...my point isn't to convince you to agree one way or another, but rather to provide a view to other web-browsers that come across ImmInst in search engines to learn something new and very important so that they can be inspired to decide for themselves and to their own research, rather than believe what doctor tells them to.

[ajnast4r]

well i guess whether i am gonna get the vaccine or not is really a moot point. i've been vaccinated for MMR twice, but because my first was at 11 months and not 12 i dont fit into the technicality of the law. so its either get the vaccine or drop out of school... they've already put a hold on me and i cant register for class until i'm vaccinated. so obviously i'm going to get the vaccine.

what i wanted to know is if there are complimentary supplements? immunostimulants, chelation angents etc etc
also if i should adjust my workout schedule...i do some pretty intense resistance exercise a few times a week... maybe not work out on or around the days of my vaccine?

Edited by ajnast4r, 01 March 2008 - 12:50 PM.

[inawe]

Dannov,
Please. You sound like a smart person (sometimes). So use your
judgement when you read something.
Everybody knows that Merck, Pfeiffer, etc are after profits. But their products have
to do something so people would buy them. Of course the companies
exaggerate the god and try to hide the bad. That's why everything
should be taken with a grain of salt (which might be the cause for the
hypertension epidemics).
Thus, to approach things with a critical eye is god. But for some
strange side effect, your critical view is blinded when you look at
stuff like Mercola is putting out. You don't think he is out to make a
buck? And then, Huffington ... (my computer is refusing to deal with
her).
Read a god history book. Of all the plagues and deceases that killed
so many people. That hygiene, vaccines, antibiotics and other such
things are saving us from all those calamities. Personally, I can go
out and not be afraid of catching polio or TB from my neighbor.
Right now, malaria is killing hundreds of thousand, may be millions, in
Africa. There is a big effort underway to try to find a god vaccine against
malaria. Are you willing to tell them: forget it, vaccines are
dangerous!?

[edward]

well i guess whether i am gonna get the vaccine or not is really a moot point. i've been vaccinated for MMR twice, but because my first was at 11 months and not 12 i dont fit into the technicality of the law. so its either get the vaccine or drop out of school... they've already put a hold on me and i cant register for class until i'm vaccinated. so obviously i'm going to get the vaccine.

what i wanted to know is if there are complimentary supplements? immunostimulants, chelation angents etc etc
also if i should adjust my workout schedule...i do some pretty intense resistance exercise a few times a week... maybe not work out on or around the days of my vaccine?

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it. You might be a little sore in your arm from the shot but not bad at all. No vaccine that I know of in the US currently uses mercury. With just one vaccine your immune system will have no problem making antibodies and you won't even notice it.

When I first went to Asia I got shots in both arms (all in one sitting) for yellow fever, dengue fever, Japanese encephalitis, booster for hep A and B, booster for tetnus/diptheria, and various other things I can't remember off the top of my head. I continued to work out like normal and didn't change anything with regards to supplementation and other than being a little sore in my deltoids I felt absolutely nothing and had no symptoms.

So, a simple MMR shot and you will be fine.

[krillin]

Benefitting from herd mentality, please.

Herd immunity. Look it up.

Rather than be illogical and irrational and try to pin thrush, scroff, rot, etc. on not getting vaccinated

Reread what I wrote. I blamed it on lack of hygiene, not lack of vaccination. I was using something called an analogy. Look that up too. The hippies and anti-vaccine people are two groups of people who neglect the lessons of the past with dire consequences. Anti-vaccine cretins like you caused at least $167,685 in damage back in 2005.

N Engl J Med. 2006 Aug 3;355(5):447-55.
Erratum in:
N Engl J Med. 2006 Sep 14;355(11):1184.
Comment in:
N Engl J Med. 2006 Aug 3;355(5):440-3.
N Engl J Med. 2006 Oct 26;355(17):1831-2; author reply 1832.
Implications of a 2005 measles outbreak in Indiana for sustained elimination of measles in the United States.
Parker AA, Staggs W, Dayan GH, Ortega-Sánchez IR, Rota PA, Lowe L, Boardman P, Teclaw R, Graves C, LeBaron CW.
Epidemic Intelligence Service, Epidemiology Program Office, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA 30333, USA.

BACKGROUND: Measles was declared eliminated from the United States in 2000 but remains endemic worldwide. In 2005, a 17-year-old unvaccinated girl who was incubating measles returned from Romania, creating the largest documented outbreak of measles in the United States since 1996. METHODS: We conducted a case-series investigation, molecular typing of viral isolates, surveys of rates of vaccination coverage, interviews regarding attitudes toward vaccination, and cost surveys. RESULTS: Approximately 500 persons attended a gathering with the index patient one day after her return home. Approximately 50 lacked evidence of measles immunity, of whom 16 (32 percent) acquired measles at the gathering. During the six weeks after the gathering, a total of 34 cases of measles were confirmed. Of the patients with confirmed measles, 94 percent were unvaccinated, 88 percent were less than 20 years of age, and 9 percent were hospitalized. Of the 28 patients who were 5 to 19 years of age, 71 percent were home-schooled. Vaccine failure occurred in two persons. The virus strain was genotype D4, which is endemic in Romania. Although containment measures began after 20 persons were already infectious, measles remained confined mostly to children whose parents had refused to have them vaccinated, primarily out of concern for adverse events from the vaccine. Seventy-one percent of patients were from four households. Levels of measles-vaccination coverage in Indiana were 92 percent for preschoolers and 98 percent for sixth graders. Estimated costs of containing the disease were at least 167,685 dollars, including 113,647 dollars at a hospital with an infected employee. CONCLUSIONS: This outbreak was caused by the importation of measles into a population of children whose parents had refused to have them vaccinated because of safety concerns about the vaccine. High vaccination levels in the surrounding community and low rates of vaccine failure averted an epidemic. Maintenance of high rates of vaccination coverage, including improved strategies of communication with persons who refuse vaccination, is necessary to prevent future outbreaks and sustain the elimination of measles in the United States. Copyright 2006 Massachusetts Medical Society.

PMID: 16885548

[dannov]

$167,685 in damages? That's pennies on the dollar for the med industry. What this study neglects to mention is what supplements the afflicted were using, what diets they had, exercise regimens, hygeine, etc.

Edward--just because you don't recognize that Mercury is still used in vaccines in the United States, that doesn't mean that it's not. Is the FDA scientific enough proof?

http://www.fda.gov/C...merosal.htm#thi

How about the CDC?

http://www.cdc.gov/o.../thimerosal.htm

Inawe--yes, you're right...these companies do need to have some results for the vaccine to be potent. However, I'd say that the negatives that come with vaccination (preservatives and other crap in them), along with the sides of the vaccine itself (both short- and long-term) far outweigh the benefit as it pertains to recent vaccinations. I agree with your Polio point, and haven't done much research to see what natural remedies would protect against Polio. I'm just generally a firm believer that there is a natural counter to every problem out there.

As for HuffingtonPost.com, it's a pretty awesome news source. They report on stories, facts, etc. and of course all media has some bias, but I'd take it over the Times any day of the week.

Edited by dannov, 03 March 2008 - 04:58 PM.

[krillin]

What this study neglects to mention is what supplements the afflicted were using, what diets they had, exercise regimens, hygeine, etc.

Do you have any evidence that even the Dannov regimen would have any noticeable effect on measles? The measles vaccine is 99% effective. This paper shows zero benefit from improved nutrition in a population less well nourished than Americans. If you can't see any benefit there, you sure as heck aren't going to see any benefit from the Dannov regimen compared to the standard American diet. Diminishing marginal returns is very much the rule in biology.

Br Med J (Clin Res Ed). 1988 Apr 30;296(6631):1225-8.
Decline in measles mortality: nutrition, age at infection, or exposure?
Aaby P, Bukh J, Lisse IM, da Silva MC.
Institute of Ethnology and Anthropology, University of Copenhagen, Denmark.

The mortality from measles was studied in an urban area of Guinea-Bissau one year before and five years after the introduction of a vaccination programme. The years after the introduction of immunisation saw a decline in mortality among unvaccinated children with measles. This decline occurred despite a lower age at infection and an increasing prevalence of malnourished children. State of nutrition (weight for age) did not affect the outcome of measles infection. The incidence of isolated cases, however, increased in the period after the introduction of measles vaccination. As mortality was lower among these cases, diminished clustering explained some of the reduction in mortality. Comparison between the urban district and a rural area inhabited by the same ethnic group showed a lower age at infection, less clustering of cases, and lower case fatality ratios in the urban area. Endemic transmission of measles in urban districts leads to less clustering of cases, which may help explain the usually lower case fatality ratios in these areas. As measles vaccination increases herd immunity and diminishes clustering of cases, it may reduce mortality even among unvaccinated children who contract the disease.

PMID: 3133023

[eternaltraveler]

Edward--just because you don't recognize that Mercury is still used in vaccines in the United States, that doesn't mean that it's not. Is the FDA scientific enough proof?

if you had read the links you provided you would have seen that thimerosel has been phased out of vaccines in the US, aside from some influenza preparations (no recomended childhood vaccines, and there are thimerosel free preparations available of the now exceedingly few vaccines that still use it)

[dannov]

Edward--just because you don't recognize that Mercury is still used in vaccines in the United States, that doesn't mean that it's not. Is the FDA scientific enough proof?

if you had read the links you provided you would have seen that thimerosel has been phased out of vaccines in the US, aside from some influenza preparations (no recomended childhood vaccines, and there are thimerosel free preparations available of the now exceedingly few vaccines that still use it)

Would I have...*posted* the links if I didn't read them? You ought not to make assumptions about the actions of others. It still is used, that was my point. You can also add in formaldehyde and aluminum, both substances that are very toxic even in microscopic amounts to the human body (let alone to developing children).

Krillin--a strong immune system will tackle just about anything. I highly doubt that kids in a 3rd-world country like Guinea were on a steady diet of the hundreds of dollars of supps that I am, with a high-alkaline diet, eating raw garlic daily, a low wheat and high-protein diet, and working out hard 4-5 days a week.

Edited by dannov, 04 March 2008 - 03:43 PM.

[krillin]

Krillin--a strong immune system will tackle just about anything. I highly doubt that kids in a 3rd-world country like Guinea were on a steady diet of the hundreds of dollars of supps that I am, with a high-alkaline diet, eating raw garlic daily, a low wheat and high-protein diet, and working out hard 4-5 days a week.

Hubris. –noun excessive self-confidence

Are you going to turn down the bird flu vaccine too? Your immune boosting tactics would only end up killing you with a cytokine storm.

[bgwowk]

--a strong immune system will tackle just about anything.

That is patently false. Do you really think that American Indians were decimated by smallpox during European colonization because their immune systems were weaker? They died because their immune systems had never seen any virus similar to variola before. Your immune system is like your brain: It is nearly impotent without education. It will respond, but the response time is too slow to save you from virulent deadly viruses unless your immune system has responded to something similar before.

You take a healthy life for granted because you live in a society that has cleansed itself of deadly airborne pathogens by the power of vaccines. You don't remember what it was like when millions of people died from easily-transmissible infectious diseases.

http://www.infopleas...ars-terror.html

Just try ignoring vaccinations the next time a really new influenza virus emerges. Experience runs an expensive school, but a fool will learn in no other.

[eternaltraveler]

Krillin--a strong immune system will tackle just about anything. I highly doubt that kids in a 3rd-world country like Guinea were on a steady diet of the hundreds of dollars of supps that I am, with a high-alkaline diet, eating raw garlic daily, a low wheat and high-protein diet, and working out hard 4-5 days a week.

this level of ignorance never ceases to astound me.

Do you honestly believe that by eating garlic and a high ph diet you can ward off anthrax? ebola?

evolution did a good job of engineering our immune systems, but it is far far from infallible

[dannov]

Krillin--a strong immune system will tackle just about anything. I highly doubt that kids in a 3rd-world country like Guinea were on a steady diet of the hundreds of dollars of supps that I am, with a high-alkaline diet, eating raw garlic daily, a low wheat and high-protein diet, and working out hard 4-5 days a week.

this level of ignorance never ceases to astound me.

Do you honestly believe that by eating garlic and a high ph diet you can ward off anthrax? ebola?

evolution did a good job of engineering our immune systems, but it is far far from infallible

Of course not, but we're not talking Ebola or Anthrax, we're talking harmless sicknesses like measles, mumps, and chicken pox--all inconveniences at best. If we suffer an outbreak that demands vaccination, then sure. But unnecessary vaccination? No.

Krillin--I'm far more concerned with Morgellon's than the Bird flu.

As for the Natives dying to smallpox--how do you think the Europeans developed immunity to it? Through vaccines? No. Through adaptation. Smallpox proliferated due to the raunchy and unsanitary conditions that most Euros lived under. Introducing a foreign virus into an environment is akin to introducing a foreign animal into an ecosystem that is unfamiliar with it. Could a vaccine have prevented many of those native deaths? Of course, though I doubt the Europeans would have vaccinated even the women and children, as they could have cared less if they all died if it meant getting more of their land and wealth.

[krillin]

Of course not, but we're not talking Ebola or Anthrax, we're talking harmless sicknesses like measles, mumps, and chicken pox--all inconveniences at best.

More lies. Measles and mumps can be fatal or cause permanent damage.

Krillin--I'm far more concerned with Morgellon's than the Bird flu.

Fantastic! We'll get to see some natural selection in action as you kooks bite the dust.

[bgwowk]

I brought up the example of smallpox decimating populations that were never exposed to related viruses to illustrate that the immune system can be educated, and that there are serious diseases that even healthy immune systems cannot effectively combat without prior immunization.

Of course not, but we're not talking Ebola or Anthrax, we're talking harmless sicknesses like measles, mumps, and chicken pox--all inconveniences at best. If we suffer an outbreak that demands vaccination, then sure. But unnecessary vaccination? No.

Those are NOT harmless diseases! In parts of the world where they are not vaccinated against, they kill MILLIONS of people every year.

http://www.boston.co...easles_plummet/

They have fatality rates on the order of 1 in 1000, and often lead to long-term complications like shingles later in life. This doesn't even consider the suffering and debilitation that just getting these disease causes, even with an uncomplicated recovery. Your whole perspective is colored by living in world cleansed of these diseases by vaccines-- a state of affairs that would end if everyone followed your advice.

Earlier in this thread you made a blanket dismissal of all vaccines, saying that you wouldn't give your children any of them. That covers a lot more territory than just the diseases you listed. It includes Hepatitis B, tuberculosis, bacterial meningitus, polio, and other very serious life-threatening diseases. Technically this list should also include smallpox, a disease that isn't vaccinated against anymore because vaccines wiped it out, which would never have happened if the 20th century followed your advice.

You take too much for granted. You live in a society and world that because of vaccines is more disease-free than people of previous centuries would have dreamed. Vaccines are the best of example of a "transhumanist" technology ever invented. They are a way that with a simple injection you can make yourself and your children INVULNERABLE to diseases that once brought terror to millions. Now people can't even name most of those diseases anymore because vaccines have made them so rare.

Edited by bgwowk, 06 March 2008 - 04:28 AM.