32 replies to this topic

[OneScrewLoose]

About a week ago I started taking Neogenix Supremacy that I ordered over at bodybuilding.com. I got it for a variety of reasons, but that's beside the point. The nonphysical results are amazing...I am able to extinguish my fears now with ease that would paralyze me before. The meditation that I been doing for a year now feels greatly magnified...I feel confident and not afraid of people and my ADD is going away. I was struggling with my schoolwork a week ago and now I feel ahead. I haven't felt like this in thirteen years...Anyway, I have quite a few questions now. Seeing as that I have never read of results like this for this supplement (just better lifts in the gym and more muscle), do I have abnormally low test/high estrogen? Should I get a panel? With the ingredients in this supplement, will my hormone levels return to where they were before when I stop? What do you think of permenant aromatase inhibitors like 6-Oxo? I really feel the need for good advice here as I haven't felt this much peace in so long...Advice, links to articles, whatever, I'm all ears.

[ajnast4r]

extended use of any AI is a bad idea, and i wouldnt recommend them in general. your body will correct this eventually, whether you are ingesting an AI or not.

probably what youre feeling is the effects of the nettle root liberating bound testosterone.

what i would do if i was you is get off the supplement, let your body return to baseline.. and when you feel bad again go get some blood work done.


also:

look at this: http://www.bodybuild.../activatex.html
find the rep for designer supps on anabolicminds.com (there is a separate forum under supplements for the company)
tell him your situation and offer to log the product w/ pre/post blood work in exchange for a free 2 months supply... ide be willing to bet he says yes.

Edited by ajnast4r, 03 March 2008 - 02:15 AM.

[niner]

About a week ago I started taking Neogenix Supremacy that I ordered over at bodybuilding.com. I got it for a variety of reasons, but that's beside the point. The nonphysical results are amazing...I am able to extinguish my fears now with ease that would paralyze me before. The meditation that I been doing for a year now feels greatly magnified...I feel confident and not afraid of people and my ADD is going away. I was struggling with my schoolwork a week ago and now I feel ahead. I haven't felt like this in thirteen years...Anyway, I have quite a few questions now. Seeing as that I have never read of results like this for this supplement (just better lifts in the gym and more muscle), do I have abnormally low test/high estrogen? Should I get a panel? With the ingredients in this supplement, will my hormone levels return to where they were before when I stop? What do you think of permenant aromatase inhibitors like 6-Oxo? I really feel the need for good advice here as I haven't felt this much peace in so long...Advice, links to articles, whatever, I'm all ears.

I'm not sure that a testosterone test would tell you much, though it's worth a try. Steroids can have some amazing effects on your brain, not all of which are bad. I think you're taking the right approach in asking about this; there are some people on this forum (not me, sorry..) with pretty decent neuro/psych knowledge, so you might hit on something. Have you ever used an SSRI or other modern antidepressant? If so, your response to such compounds may provide more information.

[OneScrewLoose]

At one point I was on 60mg of Celexa and 300 mg Wellbutrin at the same time. It wasn't even close to the effect of this. I got off those during last summer.

[Rags847]

At one point I was on 60mg of Celexa and 300 mg Wellbutrin at the same time. It wasn't even close to the effect of this. I got off those during last summer.

Ever use any of the ADHD drugs (Ritilan, Adderall)? If so, how did the effects compare?

[OneScrewLoose]

Been on both Ritalin and Adderall. Both built up a tolerance really quick, again not close to this. I once took 150mg of Adderal and 1g of Caffeine within 1 hour. I know, generally not a good idea. But at least I was really calm.

[edward]

Been on both Ritalin and Adderall. Both built up a tolerance really quick, again not close to this. I once took 150mg of Adderal and 1g of Caffeine within 1 hour. I know, generally not a good idea. But at least I was really calm.

Umm 150 mg of Adderall and 1g of Caffeine... I think your heart would explode. I think you remember the dose incorrectly...

[graatch]

I dunno, tolerance can get pretty crazy when you're abusing psychostims. I've taken 100+mg of pharmaceutical methamphetamne, many years ago.

[OneScrewLoose]

Been on both Ritalin and Adderall. Both built up a tolerance really quick, again not close to this. I once took 150mg of Adderal and 1g of Caffeine within 1 hour. I know, generally not a good idea. But at least I was really calm.

Umm 150 mg of Adderall and 1g of Caffeine... I think your heart would explode. I think you remember the dose incorrectly...

Not at all. It was 5 30mg tablets of aderall and 5 200mg tablets of caffeine within an hour (two seperate doses). I was completely calm too...

[tintinet]

What impelled you to try this rather pricey herbal supplement?

[OneScrewLoose]

What impelled you to try this rather pricey herbal supplement?

I broke up with my girlfriend and wanted to lower my libido. I read AIs can do this. I also remember that my AP Bio teacher told me that people with low test are very horny. Before this would masterbate 1-2 times a day and would barely enjoy it. I did it twice last week and it actually felt great when I did. Because of what my bio teacher told me I've always theorized about having low test, so I also thought I might get a bit more confidence and a little more muscle when I start working out again. I had no idea everything would change the way it has. Even my insomnia is going away! It's been horrible for ten years and I just don't believe that I am now going to bed on an almost regular basis! I'm still floored...but happy.

So I am worried about stopping this obviously, and that's why I asked about permenant AIs like 6-oxo. Or perhaps my body will get used to producing test and I won't bounce back when I stop? So I'm just getting as much info as possible now.

[tintinet]

What impelled you to try this rather pricey herbal supplement?

I broke up with my girlfriend and wanted to lower my libido. I read AIs can do this. I also remember that my AP Bio teacher told me that people with low test are very horny. Before this would masterbate 1-2 times a day and would barely enjoy it. I did it twice last week and it actually felt great when I did. Because of what my bio teacher told me I've always theorized about having low test, so I also thought I might get a bit more confidence and a little more muscle when I start working out again. I had no idea everything would change the way it has. Even my insomnia is going away! It's been horrible for ten years and I just don't believe that I am now going to bed on an almost regular basis! I'm still floored...but happy.

So I am worried about stopping this obviously, and that's why I asked about permenant AIs like 6-oxo. Or perhaps my body will get used to producing test and I won't bounce back when I stop? So I'm just getting as much info as possible now.

IIRC, cycling is recommended.

[niner]

What impelled you to try this rather pricey herbal supplement?

I broke up with my girlfriend and wanted to lower my libido. I read AIs can do this. I also remember that my AP Bio teacher told me that people with low test are very horny. Before this would masterbate 1-2 times a day and would barely enjoy it. I did it twice last week and it actually felt great when I did. Because of what my bio teacher told me I've always theorized about having low test, so I also thought I might get a bit more confidence and a little more muscle when I start working out again. I had no idea everything would change the way it has. Even my insomnia is going away! It's been horrible for ten years and I just don't believe that I am now going to bed on an almost regular basis! I'm still floored...but happy.

I thought that the relationship was low T = not horny. But there is more than just libido in play here. It almost sounds like you've kicked yourself into a hypomania. I've been in these before, induced by prednisone (an oral corticosteroid). When you get a good one going, it feels great. It makes me energetic as hell, yet I sleep great. I'd love to feel that way all the time, but I've never gotten it to last. A hypomania is not a "mania", where you're nuts. That's why they call it hypo. It's less than a mania. I've also had less-good psych effects from steroids, like feeling amped up but grouchy. Definitely not as cool as the hypomania.

[tintinet]

WRT hypomania- recent history if rife with examples of items marketed as herbal supplements being discovered to contain various substances, from heavy metals to steroids to prescription pharmaceuticals. Caveat emptor.

[krillin]

I broke up with my girlfriend and wanted to lower my libido.

IIRC, cycling is recommended.

That is a good idea.

Eur Urol. 2005 Mar;47(3):277-86; discussion 286-7. Epub 2004 Dec 30.
The vicious cycling: bicycling related urogenital disorders.
Leibovitch I, Mor Y.
Department of Urology, Meir Medical Center, Affiliated to Sackler School of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, 59 Tchernichovski st., Kfar Saba, Israel. leibovitchi@clalit.org.il

PURPOSE: Bicycle riding is one of the most popular means of transportation, recreation, fitness and sports among millions of people of all ages who ride on road and off road, using a variety of bicycle types. It is also a readily available form of aerobic non-impact exercise with established cardiovascular beneficial effects. Bicycles are also a common source of significant injuries. This review focuses upon the specific bicycling related overuse injuries affecting the genitourinary tract. MATERIALS AND METHODS: MEDLINE search of the literature on bicycling and genitourinary disorders was performed using multiple subject headings and additional keywords. The search yielded overall 62 pertinent articles. We focused primarily on the most prevalent related disorders such as pudendal nerve entrapment, erectile dysfunction and infertility. The potential effect of bicycling on serum PSA level was also discussed in depth in view of its recognized clinical importance. Infrequent disorders, which were reported sporadically, were still addressed, despite their rarity, for the comprehensiveness of this review. RESULTS: The reported incidence of bicycling related urogenital symptoms varies considerably. The most common bicycling associated urogenital problems are nerve entrapment syndromes presenting as genitalia numbness, which is reported in 50-91% of the cyclists, followed by erectile dysfunction reported in 13-24%. Other less common symptoms include priapism, penile thrombosis, infertility, hematuria, torsion of spermatic cord, prostatitis, perineal nodular induration and elevated serum PSA, which are reported only sporadically. CONCLUSIONS: Urologists should be aware that bicycling is a potential and not an infrequent cause of a variety of urological and andrological disorders caused by overuse injuries affecting the genitourinary system.

PMID: 15716187

[OneScrewLoose]

So does anyone know about aromatase inhibitors like this? I'm very worried about what's going to happen when I go off the supplement that I am currently taking...

[ajnast4r]

So does anyone know about aromatase inhibitors like this? I'm very worried about what's going to happen when I go off the supplement that I am currently taking...

dead link

[dannov]

6-OXO is a safe, natural AI, but is considerably weaker and not a replacement for Tamoxifen Citrate, Clomid, etc. That said, not sure if you need those if you just purchased some herbal supp. that boosts test a bit through natural means.

[OneScrewLoose]

Link again.

[tintinet]

Link again.

I take it you've not used this one, yet? I've used 6-0XO, but really noticed nothing at all.

Edited by tintinet, 07 March 2008 - 04:00 PM.

[ajnast4r]

you cant use AI and ATD(novadex)for very long.. they severely suppress estrogen which is gonna lead to libido & joint issues, among other things...

youre much better off using herbs than AI/ATD...

[OneScrewLoose]

extended use of any AI is a bad idea, and i wouldnt recommend them in general. your body will correct this eventually, whether you are ingesting an AI or not.

probably what youre feeling is the effects of the nettle root liberating bound testosterone.

what i would do if i was you is get off the supplement, let your body return to baseline.. and when you feel bad again go get some blood work done.


also:

look at this: http://www.bodybuild.../activatex.html
find the rep for designer supps on anabolicminds.com (there is a separate forum under supplements for the company)
tell him your situation and offer to log the product w/ pre/post blood work in exchange for a free 2 months supply... ide be willing to bet he says yes.

I was thinking of doing this. Should I find him and just link to this post?

[DeGenisis]

About a week ago I started taking Neogenix Supremacy that I ordered over at bodybuilding.com. I got it for a variety of reasons, but that's beside the point. The nonphysical results are amazing...I am able to extinguish my fears now with ease that would paralyze me before. The meditation that I been doing for a year now feels greatly magnified...I feel confident and not afraid of people and my ADD is going away. I was struggling with my schoolwork a week ago and now I feel ahead. I haven't felt like this in thirteen years...Anyway, I have quite a few questions now. Seeing as that I have never read of results like this for this supplement (just better lifts in the gym and more muscle), do I have abnormally low test/high estrogen? Should I get a panel? With the ingredients in this supplement, will my hormone levels return to where they were before when I stop? What do you think of permenant aromatase inhibitors like 6-Oxo? I really feel the need for good advice here as I haven't felt this much peace in so long...Advice, links to articles, whatever, I'm all ears.

I'm not sure that a testosterone test would tell you much, though it's worth a try. Steroids can have some amazing effects on your brain, not all of which are bad. I think you're taking the right approach in asking about this; there are some people on this forum (not me, sorry..) with pretty decent neuro/psych knowledge, so you might hit on something. Have you ever used an SSRI or other modern antidepressant? If so, your response to such compounds may provide more information.

What would you say if he had taken an SSRI, and it made him feel like a "wuss"?

[niner]

About a week ago I started taking Neogenix Supremacy that I ordered over at bodybuilding.com. I got it for a variety of reasons, but that's beside the point. The nonphysical results are amazing...I am able to extinguish my fears now with ease that would paralyze me before. The meditation that I been doing for a year now feels greatly magnified...I feel confident and not afraid of people and my ADD is going away. I was struggling with my schoolwork a week ago and now I feel ahead. I haven't felt like this in thirteen years...Anyway, I have quite a few questions now. Seeing as that I have never read of results like this for this supplement (just better lifts in the gym and more muscle), do I have abnormally low test/high estrogen? Should I get a panel? With the ingredients in this supplement, will my hormone levels return to where they were before when I stop? What do you think of permenant aromatase inhibitors like 6-Oxo? I really feel the need for good advice here as I haven't felt this much peace in so long...Advice, links to articles, whatever, I'm all ears.

I'm not sure that a testosterone test would tell you much, though it's worth a try. Steroids can have some amazing effects on your brain, not all of which are bad. I think you're taking the right approach in asking about this; there are some people on this forum (not me, sorry..) with pretty decent neuro/psych knowledge, so you might hit on something. Have you ever used an SSRI or other modern antidepressant? If so, your response to such compounds may provide more information.

What would you say if he had taken an SSRI, and it made him feel like a "wuss"?

A friend of mine found that 150mg/day of wellbutrin made him feel like crying all the time, but that adding even a tiny dose of an SSRI eliminated that effect. (Wellbutrin is not an SSRI) My sister is bipolar, and over the years has taken pretty much every psych med under the sun. Some make her emotional, others don't. There are others on this forum who know way more about neuro psych than I do, so I'd still say put the question out there, you might get a good hit. With regard to OneScrewLoose's question, I'm thinking that it sounds like a hypomania, and a lot of people can get those with a big enough dose of an SSRI. If a normal dose of an SSRI makes a big difference for you, that at least points to serotonin.

[DeGenisis]

About a week ago I started taking Neogenix Supremacy that I ordered over at bodybuilding.com. I got it for a variety of reasons, but that's beside the point. The nonphysical results are amazing...I am able to extinguish my fears now with ease that would paralyze me before. The meditation that I been doing for a year now feels greatly magnified...I feel confident and not afraid of people and my ADD is going away. I was struggling with my schoolwork a week ago and now I feel ahead. I haven't felt like this in thirteen years...Anyway, I have quite a few questions now. Seeing as that I have never read of results like this for this supplement (just better lifts in the gym and more muscle), do I have abnormally low test/high estrogen? Should I get a panel? With the ingredients in this supplement, will my hormone levels return to where they were before when I stop? What do you think of permenant aromatase inhibitors like 6-Oxo? I really feel the need for good advice here as I haven't felt this much peace in so long...Advice, links to articles, whatever, I'm all ears.

I'm not sure that a testosterone test would tell you much, though it's worth a try. Steroids can have some amazing effects on your brain, not all of which are bad. I think you're taking the right approach in asking about this; there are some people on this forum (not me, sorry..) with pretty decent neuro/psych knowledge, so you might hit on something. Have you ever used an SSRI or other modern antidepressant? If so, your response to such compounds may provide more information.

What would you say if he had taken an SSRI, and it made him feel like a "wuss"?

A friend of mine found that 150mg/day of wellbutrin made him feel like crying all the time, but that adding even a tiny dose of an SSRI eliminated that effect. (Wellbutrin is not an SSRI) My sister is bipolar, and over the years has taken pretty much every psych med under the sun. Some make her emotional, others don't. There are others on this forum who know way more about neuro psych than I do, so I'd still say put the question out there, you might get a good hit. With regard to OneScrewLoose's question, I'm thinking that it sounds like a hypomania, and a lot of people can get those with a big enough dose of an SSRI. If a normal dose of an SSRI makes a big difference for you, that at least points to serotonin.

That's funny, because I'm on 100 mg Zoloft (for OCD, I'm trying to lower it to 50mg) and 150 mg Wellbutrin (the Wellbutrin is new, psych added by request to counter ssri-induced apathy, which seemed to work at first, libido up, could feel emotions etc., but I smoked some marijuana and It put me back right were I was before). Where would I post the question, under Supplements? Sorry I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Edited by DeGenisis, 08 March 2008 - 12:41 AM.

[OneScrewLoose]

I noticed that masturbation seems to really take a lot out of me. Before I started this it was 1-2x/day, now it's about twice a week. However, this weekend I did it three times in two days. Took a lot out of me and made me feel like I went back a lot. Stopped now and feeling better. Anyone have any opinions?

[ajnast4r]

I noticed that masturbation seems to really take a lot out of me. Before I started this it was 1-2x/day, now it's about twice a week. However, this weekend I did it three times in two days. Took a lot out of me and made me feel like I went back a lot. Stopped now and feeling better. Anyone have any opinions?

this has been discussed at length on mindandmuscle.net... theres no solid research to prove it, but a number of guys on the forum tried to go as long as possible without orgasm as a test, and universally reported feeling more confident, more energy ect etc.

there is definitely a correlation between masturbation frequency and energy levels... i've also noticed this in myself. less orgasms = more confident, more energy during the day, higher motivation, decreased need for stimulants.

[kiriel]

I noticed that masturbation seems to really take a lot out of me. Before I started this it was 1-2x/day, now it's about twice a week. However, this weekend I did it three times in two days. Took a lot out of me and made me feel like I went back a lot. Stopped now and feeling better. Anyone have any opinions?

I do it approx. 5-10x per day. Then again, I have lowest energy levels on this planet once I have masturbated, and the only way to get the energy up is to masturbate again, so it becomes a negative feedback loop. If I masturbate (which I do almost every day), the rest of the day is fucked up, hence every day is fucked up. I have noticed that zinc supplementation might offer some relief regarding the subjective effects of "energy" levels, but this is still not conclusive.

[OneScrewLoose]

I noticed that masturbation seems to really take a lot out of me. Before I started this it was 1-2x/day, now it's about twice a week. However, this weekend I did it three times in two days. Took a lot out of me and made me feel like I went back a lot. Stopped now and feeling better. Anyone have any opinions?

I do it approx. 5-10x per day. Then again, I have lowest energy levels on this planet once I have masturbated, and the only way to get the energy up is to masturbate again, so it becomes a negative feedback loop. If I masturbate (which I do almost every day), the rest of the day is fucked up, hence every day is fucked up. I have noticed that zinc supplementation might offer some relief regarding the subjective effects of "energy" levels, but this is still not conclusive.

I used to do it 4-5 times a day. If masturbation causes lower testosterone/higher estrogen, then this is going to in turn make you more horny. The problem this weekend was twofold. In my early teen years I learned to masturbate in order to relieve stress, so it's tied more to stress relief then sexual pleasure (which has caused problems when sleeping with actual women, but that's beside the point). So something on Thursday/Friday really stressed me out, and I jacked off those three times. What happened is my energy crashed and stress went up, making it very hard to resist further masturbation Saturday/Sunday. I did it though, barely, probably thanks to the sup (which you may want to try). I feel much better now. One thing I am learning to do is get sexually satisfied from masturbation without coming. I noticed because of the stress thing, I have a need to tense my body in order to orgasm, usually by stretching my legs. It used to be that I couldn't feel anything while I was strokin it until I stretched my legs. I been working on this for a year, controlling my breathing helps and helps me enjoy the whole process instead of just the orgasm.

I might try another AI product along with this supplement to reduce the urge more. Thinking of this since I've had good luck with neogenix so far. What anyone recommend I go with something like 6-Oxo or Novadex-XT instead?

[OneScrewLoose]

I feel like this supplement is becoming less effective and that I am getting closer to where I was before. Could anyone explain this? Should I try a more direct AI?