17 replies to this topic

[Hedgehog]

Here are some results from todays testing. Single oral dose 500mg taken in powder form.

 

As you can see I needed more time points, but I already had two of my veins collapse and

didn't really want to take another time point at 1hr 30min. My GF was learning how to draw blood with the assistance of another nurse.

Used a syringe to mix with water then put into mouth followed by water.

Used values calculated against a blood sample that was spiked with known amounts of resveratrol.

Also calculated the metabolite values against the resveratrol standard. Assumed that would be close to the same.

500mg Oral Dose (micronized)	17MIN	35MIN	65MIN
Resveratrol ng/mL	19.7	23.9	49.12
Monosulfates ng/mL	25.5	194.7	515.4
mono-glucose ng/mL	ND	21.9	126.8
sulfate-glucuronide ng/mL	ND	23.7	71

[ilanso]

Here are some results from todays testing. Single oral dose 500mg taken in powder form.
As you can see I needed more time points, but I already had two of my veins collapse and
didn't really want to take another time point at 1hr 30min. My GF was learning how to draw blood with the assistance of another nurse.</p>
Used a syringe to mix with water then put into mouth followed by water.
Used values calculated against a blood sample that was spiked with known amounts of resveratrol.
Also calculated the metabolite values against the resveratrol standard. Assumed that would be close to the same.

Thanks for pursuing this, hh.
So this was a water only experiment. Compared to the zawy reported Boocock numbers for the same dose (.5 g), you've achieved only 49.12 ng/mL vs his 72.6 (am not sure what time point he used - was it 1hr like yours?). That's a pretty modest 0.22 uM. I don't think waiting another 1/2 hr would have made any substantial difference (glad it wasn't your lungs that did the collapsing - hope you're whole again).
How did you calculate it? By interpolation from those control samples, spiked in vitro? I assume it was also your blood.
Do you still feel up to or motivated enough to try a few enhanced-absorption formulas (such as EtOH or flax/fish oil)? Or increase the dose?

[Hedgehog]

Thanks for pursuing this, hh.
So this was a water only experiment. Compared to the zawy reported Boocock numbers for the same dose (.5 g), you've achieved only 49.12 ng/mL vs his 72.6 (am not sure what time point he used - was it 1hr like yours?). That's a pretty modest 0.22 uM. I don't think waiting another 1/2 hr would have made any substantial difference (glad it wasn't your lungs that did the collapsing - hope you're whole again).

So it sounds worse then it really was. Its more that I'm afraid that it is going to hurt then it actually hurting. In all honestly it hurts worse when pulling off a band-aid that has hairs attached to it compared to getting poked. I can show you where to get supplies if you want to send me some samples of your own formulation?

So that paper was the one I followed. Boondock was 72.6 ng/mL (48.9).... coefficient of variation (in percent). The lab part went very well. I was able to use 600uL of blood plasma. I still have some plasma left and hope to repeat the method again tomorrow.

How did you calculate it? By interpolation from those control samples, spiked in vitro? I assume it was also your blood.

Calculations are based on a standard curve, example, blank plasma before oral dose, take 300uL of this plasma and spike w/ a known amount of resveratrol in MeOH. I was able to get 4 standards.

So the problem with this low dose is that once you see the run everything on the HPLC the peaks are really small and finding the TRUE area becomes an art form. Which I happen to do on a daily basis. You really need some advanced software to do a very good job. So I guess I sorta question some of these papers with small doses. However, I think my results aren't to far fetched. I would have liked to see my max. Also in the boondock paper Tmax (h) 0.833 (0.5-1.5).

I was pretty famished didn't eat anything since dinner, and started taking blood around 11 the next day. I also cycled 60miles along with 5300 feet of climbing the day before

Do you still feel up to or motivated enough to try a few enhanced-absorption formulas (such as EtOH or flax/fish oil)? Or increase the dose?

Yes.... Been working on this also

[malbecman]

Great work, thanks for sharing. I'm sure we'll see some different #s between yours and other peoples. That's all part of the inter-individual variability that makes us human.
Now I'm waiting with baited breath for the different formulation studies.

Thanks again, HH,

-Malbec

Here are some results from todays testing. Single oral dose 500mg taken in powder form.
As you can see I needed more time points, but I already had two of my veins collapse and
didn't really want to take another time point at 1hr 30min. My GF was learning how to draw blood with the assistance of another nurse.</p>
Used a syringe to mix with water then put into mouth followed by water.
Used values calculated against a blood sample that was spiked with known amounts of resveratrol.
Also calculated the metabolite values against the resveratrol standard. Assumed that would be close to the same.

Thanks for pursuing this, hh.
So this was a water only experiment. Compared to the zawy reported Boocock numbers for the same dose (.5 g), you've achieved only 49.12 ng/mL vs his 72.6 (am not sure what time point he used - was it 1hr like yours?). That's a pretty modest 0.22 uM. I don't think waiting another 1/2 hr would have made any substantial difference (glad it wasn't your lungs that did the collapsing - hope you're whole again).
How did you calculate it? By interpolation from those control samples, spiked in vitro? I assume it was also your blood.
Do you still feel up to or motivated enough to try a few enhanced-absorption formulas (such as EtOH or flax/fish oil)? Or increase the dose?

[krillin]

Now I'm waiting with baited breath for the different formulation studies.

[pedant mode]

http://www.worldwide.../qa/qa-bai1.htm

[/pedant mode]

[ilanso]

Now I'm waiting with baited breath for the different formulation studies.

[pedant mode]

http://www.worldwide.../qa/qa-bai1.htm

[/pedant mode]

Cute kitty ditty.
I'm waiting with abated breath to find out what species I could trap with my resveratrol-baited breath

[bixbyte]

As you can see I needed more time points, but I already had two of my veins collapse and

I think you are only exaggerating about your veins collapsing.

Good luck with the plasma tests.

I offered you my blood but I live too far away.

[lucid]

I would love it if you try it with 5g T-Resv with ethanol and PEG3350. I think a few of us take it that way. Interesting results thanks.

[Hedgehog]

Error!!! Sorry my bad I forgot to add a dilution factor for the standards... I guess it helps if you add that. Pretty stupid of me... I guess I was excited just to get the results.

500mg Oral Dose (micronized)..................17MIN..........35MIN..........65MIN
Resveratrol ng/mL.................................24.4...............29.6..........61.1
Monosulfates ng/mL..............................31.5...............240.7.........641.3
mono-glucose ng/mL..............................ND................27.1............157.8
sulfate-glucuronide ng/mL......................ND................29.3...............88.8

[sUper GeNius]

Can someone explain the significance of these numbers? Pro vs con.

Thx

[ilanso]

500mg Oral Dose (micronized)...........17MIN..........35MIN..........65MIN
Resveratrol ng/mL.................................24.4...............29.6..........61.1
Monosulfates ng/mL..............................31.5...............240.7.........641.3
mono-glucose ng/mL..............................ND................27.1............157.8
sulfate-glucuronide ng/mL......................ND................29.3...............88.8

So now we have 61.1 ng/mL (0.27 uM) vs Mr. B's 72.6 @ about 1hr for a pure 0.5 g dose. I suspect you were really close to your max. How arbitrary is this 20% fudge factor?
It would be interesting to see how much more it can be pushed up by using real "fudge" - hold the sugar - (oil / alcohol / lecithin / PEG / yogurt , etc).
If you can use volunteers, it would be useful to know how hard is it to stick it to yourself and survive without passing out (although, philosophically, do you actually faint if no one is there to see you? ). Also, details on blood travel logistics.
Thanks,
i

[Hedgehog]

500mg Oral Dose (micronized)...........17MIN..........35MIN..........65MIN
Resveratrol ng/mL.................................24.4...............29.6..........61.1
Monosulfates ng/mL..............................31.5...............240.7.........641.3
mono-glucose ng/mL..............................ND................27.1............157.8
sulfate-glucuronide ng/mL......................ND................29.3...............88.8

So now we have 61.1 ng/mL (0.27 uM) vs Mr. B's 72.6 @ about 1hr for a pure 0.5 g dose. I suspect you were really close to your max. How arbitrary is this 20% fudge factor?
It would be interesting to see how much more it can be pushed up by using real "fudge" - hold the sugar - (oil / alcohol / lecithin / PEG / yogurt , etc).
If you can use volunteers, it would be useful to know how hard is it to stick it to yourself and survive without passing out (although, philosophically, do you actually faint if no one is there to see you? ). Also, details on blood travel logistics.
Thanks,
i

I don't know how much the fudge factor would be. I suspect whatever mr B found. Who knows maybe I hit my max at 45mins and was coming down at 1hr?
The blood was analyzed the same day it was taken. LOL I didn't take my own blood. I don't think I could.

Cheers,

[Hedgehog]

Can someone explain the significance of these numbers? Pro vs con.

Thx

These numbers are just my baseline resveratrol + metabolite levels over three time points. As you can see in my body resveratrol gets converted pretty fast to sulfate-resveratrol. Also if you look at some of the literature you would have to take more resveratrol in order to achieve higher plasma levels.

A couple people have asked me to take a larger dose. I would have taken a larger dose but malbecman had a very very good point. If I take too much I will end up swamping my enzymes and won't really be able to figure out if different formulations really work. If I can get away with a smallest amount possible then I can hopefully minimize swamping my enzymes and find the best formulation. Once you find this then you can scale up.

Edited by Hedgehog, 05 March 2008 - 04:43 PM.

[niner]

Can someone explain the significance of these numbers? Pro vs con.

Thx

These numbers are just my baseline resveratrol + metabolite levels over three time points. As you can see in my body resveratrol gets converted pretty fast to sulfate-resveratrol. Also if you look at some of the literature you would have to take more resveratrol in order to achieve higher plasma levels.

A couple people have asked me to take a larger dose. I would have taken a larger dose but malbecman had a very very good point. If I take too much I will end up swamping my enzymes and won't really be able to figure out if different formulations really work. If I can get away with a smallest amount possible then I can hopefully minimize swamping my enzymes and find the best formulation. Once you find this then you can scale up.

Hedge, one could also make the point that since most people will want to take a couple grams a day, that it would be better to optimize the formulation for that resveratrol loading. It might be the case that you would need a smaller quantity of metabolism modifiers with a larger dose.

[smithx]

<p>Here are some results from todays testing. Single oral dose 500mg taken in powder form. </p>

Fantastic work!!

Can you specify what brand it was?

Also, what brand(s) are micronized?

[Hedgehog]

<p>Here are some results from todays testing. Single oral dose 500mg taken in powder form. </p>

Fantastic work!!

Can you specify what brand it was?

Also, what brand(s) are micronized?

Hi Smith,

Well I won't say the brand but I have looked at a few brands under the Electron microscope and most vendors have very small particle size. If we assume that the boondock paper was not micronized then my values are actually slightly lower then non-micronized sample. However, if micronized really works then we could have see a spike at a certain time point probably around 45mins that I might have missed. IMO most vendors products are already at a fine particle size and micronization might help but only slightly. I wouldn't pay for a higher price for a micronized sample it simply doesn't make that big of difference. If it did then my values should have been been out of the error range of the boondock paper.

[Hedgehog]

error range of the boondock paper.

correction boondock in all my posts should be Boocock and here is the paper link http://cebp.aacrjour...tract/16/6/1246

I guess i watched boondock saints one to many times.

[ilanso]

correction boondock in all my posts should be Boocock and here is the paper link http://cebp.aacrjour...tract/16/6/1246

I guess i watched boondock saints one to many times.

In the sticks, no doubt :-)