103 replies to this topic

[eternaltraveler]

as I've said before I think protandim is fine. The ingredients are just nothing special and you can get them yourself for much cheaper. Also the dosage is probably significantly less than optimal.

You're better off getting the ingredients individualy and donating the difference to the Mprize if you really care about fighting aging.

[biknut]

hi justinrebo,

My advice is that Protandim is easier and probably better.

Edited by biknut, 30 January 2006 - 04:24 PM.

[biknut]

this one's kind of interesting.

1: Indian J Exp Biol. 1997 Mar;35(3):236-9. Related Articles, Links


Antioxidant activity of glycowithanolides from Withania somnifera.

Bhattacharya SK, Satyan KS, Ghosal S.

Department of Pharmacology, Banaras Hindu University, Varanasi, India.

Antioxidant activity of active principles of Withania somnifera, consisting of equimolar concentrations of sitoindosides VII-X and withaferin A, was investigated for their effects on rat brain frontal cortical and striatal concentrations of superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase (CAT) and glutathione peroxidase (GPX). Results were compared with effects induced by deprenyl, an agent with well documented antioxidant activity. Active glycowithanolides of W. somnifera (WSG) (10 and 20 mg/kg, i.p.), administered once daily for 21 days, induced a dose-related increase in SOD, CAT and GPX activity in frontal cortex and striatum, which was statistically significant on days 14 and 21, except with the lower dose of WSG on GPX activity, where the effect was evident only on day 21. The data were comparable to those induced by deprenyl (2 mg/kg/day, i.p.) with respect to SOD, CAT and GPX activities, which were evident by day 14. These findings are consistent with the therapeutic use of W. somnifera as an Ayurvedic rasayana and medhyarasayana. Antioxidant effect of active principles of W. somnifera may explain, at least in part, the reported antistress, immunomodulatory, cognition-facilitating, anti-inflammatory and anti-aging effects produced by them in experimental animals, and in clinical situations.

PMID: 9332168 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[biknut]

Cell Game

Oxidative stress is part of the aging process and may put us at risk for dozens of diseases. Some researchers are excited about a little pill called Protandim, which is designed to minimize the damaging effects of free radicals, in effect, turning back the clock. The older people get the more conservative they become, right?

It might surprise you to learn that after age 27, people grow increasingly radical, as in free radical, a metabolic by-product that assaults cells, potentially inflicting damage.

Oxidative stress is what we’re talking about. It’s likely that many of the problems associated with aging are rooted in this molecular process,

which intensifies as the body’s ability to fight free radicals decreases. It’s a condition marked by excessive oxidants (free radicals), and diminished levels of antioxidant enzymes, a neutralizing agent that converts oxidants into harmless water and oxygen.

More specifically, the body produces Superoxide Dismutase (SOD), and Catalase (CAT), to protect against oxidants, a toxin resulting from the breakdown of food. From age 27 on, production of SOD and CAT lessens, creating an unhealthy imbalance, one that may possibly result in cancer. Appropriately enough, the co-discoverer of SOD, University of Colorado biochemist Dr. Joe McCord, has helped in the formulation of a product designed to increase the body’s output of antioxidant enzymes.

Protandim (www.Protandim.com) is a pill comprised of numerous botanical extracts manufactured by Lifeline Therapeutics (www.lifelinetherapeutics.com) in Denver, Colorado.

“As we grow older there is an age-dependent increase in oxidative stress,” explains Dr. McCord, a divisional head at the Webb-Waring Institute for Cancer, Aging, and Antioxidant Research.

“This is why many people have consumed antioxidants such as vitamins C and E for the last twenty years or so. Recent studies have confirmed that these traditional antioxidants have no measurable effect on levels of oxidative stress. Protandim takes a much different approach, and completely eliminates the progressive increase in oxidative stress as measured by TBARS. Protandim restores optimal oxidative balance to the point where oxidative stress, evidenced by lipid peroxidation products, is minimized.”

Dr. McCord’s formula blends the common (green tea leaves), with the exotic (ashwagandha root), but all are associated with antioxidant activity.

Think of Protandim as a catalyst, rather than a supplement.

“Five ingredients are used, all sharing the same important properties so that the individual amount of each can be quite low, further ensuring safety and absence of any unwanted pharmacological effects. Each of the ingredients in Protandim has been well studied, with reports published in the medical/scientific literature. These reports describe not only safety concerns, but often investigate the ingredient’s role in traditional medicine. Several have been used for centuries in India and China. More importantly, the recent studies in each case documented that these ingredients shared the unusual properties of increasing production of natural antioxidant enzymes,” says Dr. McCord.

Eating more fruit and vegetables while reducing calorie intake is frequently suggested as one means of combating oxidative stress. Just one problem—it doesn’t work, according to Dr. McCord.

“Fruits and vegetables supply ‘consumable’ antioxidants such as vitamins E and C and many other similar molecules. These antioxidants are rapidly used up as they react one-on-one with oxidants. Our bodies don't rely on this kind of antioxidant protection for bulk control of free radicals and hydrogen peroxide; rather our bodies rely on ‘catalytic’ antioxidants—the enzymes SOD and CAT. Each enzyme molecule destroys thousands of oxidant molecules a second, without being used up at all.”

One Good Enzyme Deserves Another:

Among the reasons antioxidant supplements fail is that they are rendered inert during the digestive process. The only effective antioxidant enzymes are those the body produces naturally, says Dr. McCord. Protandim’s botanical formulation is designed to stimulate production of Superoxide Dismutase and Catalase at the cellular level. Recommended dosage is one pill a day—675 mg. Protandim can be taken in conjunction with other dietary supplements.

Protandim’s principal ingredients:

Calcium, which is used as a binding agent.
Milk thistle extract.
Bacopa extract.
Ashwagandha root.
Green tea extract leaf.
Turmeric extract.
More than one hundred diseases are associated with oxidative stress. Whether or not increased oxidative levels actually produce illness has yet to be determined, but there is growing evidence they cause atherosclerosis, or plaque formation in the arteries leading to heart attacks and strokes.

“The important contribution that Protandim can make,” says Dr. McCord, “is to provide a powerful tool for scientists so that they may begin to determine the role of oxidative stress in each of these diseases. Only after the studies are done will we be able to answer whether alleviation of oxidative stress will prevent or effectively treat any particular disease.”


http://input.fitdv.c....html?artid=563

[kevin]

"Only after the studies are done will we be able to answer whether alleviation of oxidative stress will prevent or effectively treat any particular disease.”

... and in the meantime they'll be making a piss-pot full of money off of people who don't know any better.

Bar none the most effective way of getting immediate health benefits is making proper lifestyle choices. Beyond that, taking supplements is of largely unproven and questionable benefit for most healthy individuals and may actually backfire. It's a much better investment to put money in the Mprize which is promoting using science to get to the root of aging... not just put a prettier face on it.

The purveyors of Protandim would have done well to actually do AND publish the basic studies that show the effectiveness of the product in raising endogenous anti-oxidant enzymes.

They showed themselves to be capable of misleading the public by having the information relating to the peptide based formulation on their site while they were pushing the new one.

That speaks volumes about their business practices and makes ANY claim they make suspect and subject to verification before I'LL put any credence in them or spend a single thin dime on their 'say-so'.

I'm glad you found something that is making you feel better and I understand that you want to trumpet the news to the world, but in reality there are much more effective, and cheaper methods available for doing what Protandim claims (and hasn't yet proven AFAIK).

[biknut]

hi kevin,

i hope you don't mind if we can agree to disagree this time. i think i understand you view on the subject but.....

first of all it's alright to make money. i make lots of it myself.

you are right about us needing to make proper lifestyle choices but there are a lot of supplements that help people. i love glucosamine.

as far as publishing studies, they will. and soon i think. will that make you happy with them?

i really don't know or care much about formulations that they might have rejected.
if mistakes were made in the past maybe that's why they fired their ceo. i don't see anything about peptides on the webb sight. i think maybe it's time to move on, on that issue. ancient history to me.

they don't seem dishonest to me yet.

as far as other stuff that's as good as protandim, like what? i hope you're not suggesting taking the bulk ingredients. even if that works wouldn't it be the same thing, but just a little less money?

i'm friendly guy in very good health so i'm probably making good lifestyle choices too, but as i get older my body needs a little more help. yours will too.

long life to you,
phil

[kevin]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with making money. Making it on the backs of ignorance and subterfuge I do have a problem with.

as far as publishing studies, they will. and soon i think. will that make you happy with them?

My 'happiness' has nothing to do with it. It would support their claims which are currently not verified. As I said, it would have been more ethical and professional if they had done and published before making claims. Even after such studies are published it doesn't change the fact that they started off on the wrong foot.

i really don't know or care much about formulations that they might have rejected.

Well I HAVE been following the developments with Ceremedix, LifeLine and Protandim for quite some time and we are definitely different in that I do care a lot about their history as it is in the history that you usually find something behind the marketing hype. Its difficult to 'unwrite' the past to suit one's current version of the present and the history of a company really says a lot about their integrity and just how much credibility to give them. The peptide version of Protandim which was being developed by Ceremedix was not just a different 'formulation' that was 'rejected', it was an entirely different product based on an entirely different mechanism of action and likely more effective. The story is far from clear as to why it was not used but patent issues, drug licencing and time to market are much more the reason for not implementing it than effectiveness.

The short of it is that Lifeline invested a huge amount of time and money into the Protandim peptide formulation and when it appeared that it wouldn't fly within the time frame they were counting on, they hurrieldly slapped up a substitute that they could switch to and utilize the same machinery they already had in place. Of coures they didn't have the same science backing this new formulation to put on their site so they left the old stuff up there as a stand-in knowing that most visitors would not be able to tell the difference between it and the new version.

By any definition they have not behaved above board with many of their communications and marketing from the outset. To my mind, if a company is asking for my money they need to earn my trust, they don't just automatically get it, especially when it comes to dealing with promising to alleviate pain and suffering or prevent it. Thus far, not only have they not earned my trust, they are quickly backing into the "not a snowball's chance" zone.

Take supplements of course if you feel they are doing you some good. I get some benefit from my own regimen (and I'm 42 so I know a bit about getting older), however I realize that the real technologies which will be able to regenerate, not just mask degeneration, have yet to be developed. Taking supplements is a pretty poor substitute for proper regeneration. You might want to consider other alternatives which although perhaps not 'immediately' beneficial, offer you the clearest alternative to an 'inevitable' course. The Mprize comes to mind for instance.

[biknut]

hi kevin,

thank you for spending the time to discuss protandim with me. i know you started
this thread almost 2 years ago, and you're the director of this great forum. some of the best information about the early days of protandim is found right here, and posted by you.

it appears that you originally had high hopes for the peptide formula. there were some valid issues with the marketing people almost right from the start. in spite of this it looks like you were still optimistic about protandim until around april of 2004 when they started talking about the new botanical formula. by then the lame excuses they were giving about why it was taking so long to bring the peptide formula to market were starting to wear thin. then someone that was pro protandim jumps in with some name calling and after that the sh%t hits the fan. right so far?

now here i come, aggravating a sore spot. please excuse me. i'm not trying to make anyone angry. i never heard of protandim till about june 4th of this year. my
wife taped the abc show for me because she knows i'm crazy about stuff like this. after watching, i wanted to find out about everything protandim. it seems that a lot of other people have the same negative feelings because of the excuses, and marketing issues, and disappointment about the change in formula. i know you got a lot of company.

i'm in agreement that these early posts are facts. you did a good job of documenting everything that happened. it's just that when i look at the same facts i draw different conclusions.

starting with the marketing. marketing people are payed to sell a product. they will say just about anything if it won't get them arrested or the company they're working for sued.

i don't put much stock in what marketing people say, but according to dr mccord, testing on the peptide formula turned up undesirable side effects. he said this in the abc show. it's very easy for me to believe this could be true.

dr mccord says the botanical formula works as good or almost as good as the peptide formula. without the side effects. everything on the present webb sight is about the botanical formula, i think. dr mccord says he's tested it and it works. the webb sight makes clear that he thinks it's VERY powerful.

the company must have known the peptide formula had problems a lot earlier than anyone else. maybe at first they held out hope they could get around these problems so they tried to buy time by saying there was licensing trouble, or patent problems, or fda approval. anything but bad side effects. bad side effects kills it. the other bs excuses don't.

then after they found out it was going to be impossible to prevent the side effects they gave up on the peptide formula. it seems reasonable to start looking for an alternative. that's a reason why they may have started the bs back then. i think dr mccord is the reason they went with the botanical formula.

a question i have about the peptide formula is this. if the peptide formula is so good, why doesn't someone else start making it? because of the fda? i don't think so, what about fast tracking.? other drugs make it to the market. licensing? if it's real it'll make enough money to pay for any license.
patent trouble? who's fault is that?

after all that's said, i'm just trying to say, man this stuff is helping me a lot. i think dr mccord is telling the truth. after the studies are published, if it turns out like you think, i'll admit you are right. can you give dr mccord the benefit of doubt till then?

[kevin]

biknut,

Thanks for taking the time to go through things and offer your thoughts. You read my feelings on it quite well, although I was not as disappointed that they switched formulations as the fact that they didn't hold themselves to a higer level of integrity.

I realize that you feel the product is helping you and appreciate your sincerity. I'm a great believer that feeling better is the ultimate test. I sincerely hope that it is a good as you, and Dr. Mccord say it is and that others will find benefit as well.

All of this doesn't change the fact that a company is responsible for its message and regardless of what the marketing people want, they should have been up front about the switch, done the studies, published and concurrently ramped up their business model. I've posted this previously but it bears posting again that Paul Myhill of Lifeline sent out a communication on April 12, 2004 which contained the following reason for going with the new formulation:

DENVER, COLORADO, APR. 12, 2004.  Lifeline Nutraceuticals, Inc. (Lifeline) has refocused it efforts in order to expediently bring a much-needed antioxidant formulation to market.  The formulation has been dubbed, Protandim CF, and will be marketed within Lifeline’s Protandim brand category.  The Protandim brand will eventually contain multiple products that are specifically designed to enhance the body’s primary defense mechanism against oxidative stress – the three antioxidant enzymes Superoxide Dismutase (SOD), Catalase (CAT), and Glutathione Peroxidase (GPX.)

Protandim CF is the result of months of extensive research and development by the company and associated scientists.  Originally developed as a “Co-Factor” formulation to support and complement Lifeline’s initial Protandim (CMX-1152) product candidate (licensed from CereMedix, Inc.), Protandim CF now stands in its own right as “the better approach” for antioxidant therapy compared to current category offerings.  Due to contractual and developmental issues/delays/changes with CereMedix, Lifeline has redirected its efforts to concentrate exclusively on the Protandim CF product.  Talks are occurring between Lifeline and CereMedix, Inc. regarding the CMX-1152 candidate, but it is now estimated by Lifeline to be perhaps one year away from commercialization.  Protandim CF, on the other hand, can be available within a few months and includes elements that have shown remarkable efficacy in positively impacting SOD, CAT and GPX levels.

You will note that nowhere does it say anything about side-effects which is the current story and in fact in other previous communications they tout the fact that no side-effects were noted in their own extensive in-house testing of the peptide formulation. Instead it appears that Ceremedix and Lifeline were having a spat. This an actual example of the real situation while they still thought there might be a chance of marketing the CMX-1152 product. I have to say it is likely that the side-effects story is also a 'marketing' ploy. I could be wrong, but they didn't publish anything so its just a gut instinct.

The fact that they are shady won't detract from the effectiveness of the product, but let's be real about their lack of integrity even though people interested in feeling better really could give a .. .. if it works, which I hope it does and patiently await the proof.

[biknut]

Kevin,

Thank you very much.

I totally agree with you that their marketing has been really lacking at times. I duly note your concerns, and i promise i am keeping a close eye on them.

Edited by biknut, 30 January 2006 - 04:18 PM.

[biknut]

Press Release
Source: Lifeline Therapeutics, Inc.

Human Study Shows Protandim® Provides a Fundamentally New Approach to Antioxidant Therapy
Tuesday January 17 2006, 4:30 pm ET

New Scientific Data Demonstrate Protandim® Improves the Body's Natural Ability to Reduce Oxidative Stress by Increasing Activity of Antioxidant Enzymes

DENVER, Jan. 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Lifeline Therapeutics, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: LFLT - News) announced data from a human study just published in the scientific journal, Free Radical Biology & Medicine (Jan. 15, 2006), demonstrated Protandim® was able to reduce oxidative stress in men and women. Oxidative stress results when the balance between oxidants and antioxidant enzymes is upset. Oxidative stress, which many authorities believe is central to the cellular aging process, increases as we age. Furthermore, there are over a thousand scientific research studies indicating that high oxidative stress is associated with various diseases. to produce more of its own antioxidant enzymes. The study measured the levels of TBARS (thiobarbituric acid-reactive substances), harmful substances created when cells are damaged by oxidation, in 29 subjects. People taking Protandim® experienced reduced oxidative stress, as demonstrated by reducing the amount of TBARS circulating in the blood by an average of 40 percent. This reduced oxidative stress occurred as a result of significantly increasing the activity of antioxidant enzymes that naturally help regulate healthy oxidative balance.

"These results represent a whole new approach to antioxidant therapy," said senior study author Joe M. McCord, Ph.D., professor of medicine at the University of Colorado Denver Health Sciences Center. "Our review of the literature has found that studies with traditional antioxidant compounds have failed to eliminate the age-related increase in oxidative stress that we have seen in this study, suggesting that Protandim® may offer a much more efficient way to reduce oxidative stress."

Oxidative stress and its effects in the body

Oxidants, which include free radicals, are toxic by-products of human cells as they produce energy to perform their specific metabolic functions. Oxidants are neutralized or detoxified by naturally occurring antioxidant enzymes within cells, including superoxide dismutase and catalase (SOD and CAT). Oxidative stress results when there is a disruption in the balance between oxidants and antioxidant enzymes.

One specific measure of oxidative stress is TBARS, harmful products of lipid (fat) oxidation found in the blood. Lower levels of TBARS are seen in healthy and younger individuals. As people age, and in certain diseases, the amount of TBARS circulating in the blood increases, indicating elevated oxidative stress levels.

Protandim® study results

In this study, before starting Protandim®, study participants, who ranged in age from 20 to 78, showed a strong age-related increase in TBARS. After 30 days of taking Protandim®, a 40 percent average decrease in TBARS was seen, and the age-related increase was eliminated. By 120 days of supplementation, Protandim® also significantly increased activity of SOD and CAT antioxidant enzymes by 30 percent and 54 percent, respectively.

"These results show not only that specific harmful substances can be decreased by Protandim®, but that oxidative stress can be reduced by a natural process, increasing the body's ability to get rid of the harmful substances by increasing the activity of antioxidant enzymes," said Dr. McCord.

Much more is being learned about the relationship of oxidative stress with the cellular aging process and with certain diseases. A recent review of multiple studies concluded oxidative stress is strongly associated with the cellular aging process.(1) Furthermore, a recent study concluded that TBARS may be a predictor of cardiovascular events in patients with stable coronary artery disease.(2) "As we learn more about the effects of oxidative stress on cellular aging and certain diseases, we can begin to think about new approaches to maintaining low levels of oxidative stress for long-term health," said Rajindar Sohal, Ph.D., professor of molecular pharmacology and toxicology at the University of Southern California, and a researcher in oxidative stress.

Stephen Onody, chief executive officer of Lifeline Therapeutics, makers of Protandim®, commented on Lifeline Therapeutics' corporate approach to the science of oxidative stress. "We believe today's consumers of dietary supplements are asking for more scientific data to demonstrate the value of the products they choose. It is our goal to continue supporting research not only to help differentiate Protandim® as a unique approach to antioxidant therapy, but also further define the science behind oxidative stress."

The paper in its entirety will be posted to http://www.protandim.com upon availability.

References

(1) Junqueira, V. B.; Barros, S. B.; Chan, S. S.; Rodrigues, L.; Giavarotti, L.; Abud, R. L.; Deucher, G. P. Aging and oxidative stress. Mol. Aspects Med. 25:5-16; 2004.

(2) Walter, M. F.; Jacob, R. F.; Jeffers, B.; Ghadanfar, M. M.; Preston, G. M.; Buch, J.; Mason, R. P. Serum levels of thiobarbituric acid reactive substances predict cardiovascular events in patients with stable coronary artery disease: a longitudinal analysis of the PREVENT study. J. Am. Coll. Cardiol. 44:1996-2002; 2004.

About Joe M. McCord, Ph.D.

Dr. McCord currently serves as professor of medicine at the University of Colorado Denver Health Sciences Center and also is director of science for Lifeline Therapeutics. In 1969, Dr. McCord, together with Irwin Fridovich, discovered superoxide dismutase (SOD), spawning an avalanche of research. For this work, he and Fridovich were awarded the Elliot Cresson Medal. In 1997, Dr. McCord received a lifetime achievement award from the Oxygen Society for outstanding contributions to the field of free radical biology and medicine. Dr. McCord is president of the International Society of Antioxidants in Nutrition and Health (ISANH), and he serves on the editorial board of the journal Free Radical Biology & Medicine. Dr. McCord beneficially owns 1.6 million shares of Lifeline Therapeutics common stock.

About the Free Radical Biology & Medicine Journal

Free Radical Biology & Medicine is the official journal of the Society for Free Radical Biology and Medicine, and is an affiliate journal of the International Society for Free Radical Research. The peer-reviewed journal is one of the highest impact factor journals in the field and is listed by all the major indexing services, including Current Contents, Index Medicus, Science Citation, Chemical Abstracts, and Current Awareness in Biological Sciences and Toxicology Abstracts. The journal encompasses chemical, biochemical, genetic, molecular biology, cell biology, cell signaling, physiological, pharmacological, pathological, toxicological, and medical approaches to oxygen and free radical research.

Here is a link to the entire study.

http://www.protandim.....FRBM 2006.pdf

Edited by biknut, 30 January 2006 - 04:01 PM.

[kevin]

From a recent news item from LEF.. I don't think I'd be mistaken in assuming this was the same CMX-1152 that was initially slated to appear in the the original Protandim product. If LEF is reporting on its progress, it obviously is alive and kicking... somewhere.

http://www.lef.org/n...0&Section=AGING
--------------------------------------

...CLINICAL trials have already taken place on a drug which has the potential to increase life expectancy to an amazing 120.

The pill - known as 1152 - could be sold over the counter and taken every day.

It works by stimulating the flow of anti-oxidants over many decades, allowing the body to maintain a rate of cell-growth and repair normally seen in teenagers.

If trials are successful, it will mean people will be more able to combat stress and disease in old age than they are at present.

[biknut]

LifeVantage Corporation Obtains Patent for Science-Based Dietary Supplement Product
Thursday July 12, 6:17 pm ET


GREENWOOD VILLAGE, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--LifeVantage Corporation (OTCBB: LFVN - News), formerly Lifeline Therapeutics, Inc., maker of Protandim®, today announced a patent was granted on July 10, 2007 for its antioxidant therapy formula used in Protandim®. The patent, titled "Compositions for Alleviating Inflammation and Oxidative Stress in a Mammal," is the first patent granted to LifeVantage Corporation. Two other patent applications have been filed by LifeVantage for Protandim®-based science.

Dr. Joe McCord, LifeVantage's Director of Science and co-discoverer of the important antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase, stated, "The issuance of this first U.S. patent underscores the unique nature of Protandim®'s approach to antioxidant therapy, and the remarkable synergy of its five phytochemical components working together. We believe this adds substantial validation to the science that has led to the creation of Protandim®."

http://biz.yahoo.com...06108.html?.v=1

[Mind]

I recently observed some advertisements and encountered some people selling this supplement.

 

I revived this old thread just to see how opinions change through the years. It seems this product has gone through more clinical research and there are probably some health benefits.

 

Some other LongeCity discussions about it:

 

https://www.longecit...rf2-synergizer/

 

https://www.longecit...9451-protandim/